Warrior type

[Fljotsdale]

Following a chat with TheDeadShadow, I decided to try playing a pure Combat class, which I have never done before, despite having played the game almost from its release! I usually go for combined Stealth/Mage types.

So... well, my char isn't quite a pure Combat. I don't ever give my chars more than one weapon skill as Major, and I never put an armour class in Major, either, but other than that...

Nord, female.
Warrior birthsign
Str and End as favoured attributes
Major Skills: Armourer, Blade, Block, Alteration (SO useful, even with limited magica), Restoration, ('cos Nords have a +5 Restoration), Security, Sneak (both much more useful than armour as Major skills).

I have to say I just love the Strength! She is level 3 at the moment, and already has 70 Str, and is sailing through everything in her path.

I may try a Combat type again. I'll have to see how it goes. I actually do miss the Magica, and am trying to build up her INT from the starter 30 eek , by doing lots of Alchemy and Detect Life spell - only it takes SUCH a long time with such low magica! I miss my Mage/Stealth types, even while totally loving my Nord's Strength!

[galraen]

Sneak, alteration and security for a warrior type? Seems more suitable for a thief to me.

[Fljotsdale]

Sneak, alteration and security for a warrior type? Seems more suitable for a thief to me.

Well, yes! But everything else is Combat! And what would you suggest as alternatives? Another weapon skill? Armour? Athletics? Certainly they are the other combat skills, and for a pure Combat class I should use them... but they are such a waste! Armour and Athletics go up fast enough already (especially Athletics because you naturally run most of the time, and your level would shoot up while you were still not fitted for the level in other areas) - it's plain stupid to put 'em in Major skills, imo; and as for another weapon skill - why? Trying to keep both weapons in use would mean both would progress at half the rate of a single weapon skill; a pure waste!

Yes, Alteration may not be the most sensible choice for a Combat char with low Magica, but it IS eminently useful! And so are Sneak and Security. They are also, imo, the best alternatives from the other classes to selecting another Weapon, Athletics, and Armour, for a Combat class to have.

But what would you suggest?

[Tricky]

There's no point in taking security. It will drive your level up, which makes the (not so entirely random) randomly placed enemies more difficult at your expense. Meaninglessly, as you won't get better rewards for opening chests to the point that newly stolen equips will offset the combat effectiveness you lack. Plus, if you listen to lockpicking for enough hours you can pretty much pick any lock without any regard to difficulty. Easier lockpicking by skill doesn't really change anything about how easy it is to pick them in one try.

To be honest, this is a generic fighter build. No one likes to raid a dungeon and then ignore all the locked chests. And it's real easy to become enough of a sneak to get a small backstab multiplier going if you sneak through a mine or two. This isn't Baldur's Gate where you can just switch to Jan and have him have a try at it instead, so we all end up with a certain amount of security/sneak points anyway.

Making it a major skill comes at the cost of other attribute and skill points, while you don't really get anything for it back. That's how I feel about it anyway.

[galraen]

How is alteration useful? In Oblivion it's pretty useless IMO, it's not like in Morrowind were there's a lot of water walking necessary, virtually no water hostiles to worry about so swimming gets it done. No levitation, opening chests is child's play with security, even as a minor discipline. There's absolutely no point to it, apart from using it to increase willpower, for which purpose it's actually better as a minor.

I understand why you would make it a major, and security if you're a good 'twitcher', because that way you can level up whenever you want to.

It is necessary to keep at least one endurance related skill as a minor, but I normally make it Armourer rather than Heavy Armour. In my experience if you start off with block and heavy armour as majors with race that gives a boost to those skills, the skills don't drive your level up too quickly. The higher a skill is the slower it increases, start off with those two at 35 or higher and you should have no problem.

Athletics only goes up if you're not sneaking when you run, so put athletics as a major and sneak as a minor and that problem is sorted. Marksman is very slow to increase, so using sneak to increase agility does help, but if it's a major that's bad news.

Marksman really shouldn't be a stealth related skill, that was excusable in Morrowind to some degree. In that game the best missile weapons to use were shuriken and the like, but with those idiotically left out of Oblivion marksman should be a combat skill. All warriors should have the skill in my opinion.

So my skills for a straight warrior would be Heavy Armour, Weapon (not used), Block, Marksman, Restoration, Athletics and Light Armour (I'd only use gloves, boots and Gleam Helm).

[TheDeadShadow]

glad to see you experiminting...if you make another combat char i sugest trying a altmer seeing as to how they have 200 magica at start.that way you could have your magic and some combat.

[Fljotsdale]

Hmmm... Thanks, Tricky, galraen, and TheDeadShadow. You have all made some interesting comments, which I have taken onboard. With regard to Alteration, galraen, I use it mainly for the feather spells - Ease Burden, and such - but I guess I was thinking of my usual weak mage/stealth chars when I included it! I suppose it isn't so important for a Combat class Nord! And I take your point about Security: I'm pretty good at hearing when to hit the pick, so I don't really need it as a Major - again, in the habit of using it with previous char types.
Good points on that from you, too, Tricky.

Armourer I really like to have as a Major so that I can repair magical items as early as possible. Of course, again, my previous chars not having been Combat types, it was important to have it as a Major so as to give it a bit of a bump-start; less important with a Combat, since it comes with a +5 starter even in Minor. But... I'll have to think about that.

Block I have already in Major, but I really don't like heavy armour - though it is better protection, I agree. Maybe I'll give it a go.
Good point re: sneaking and Athletics. My chars almost always sneak outside cities and dungeons.
And yeah Marksman is a good skill for a low magica type.

But I don't think an Altmer would suit my idea of a combat class, TheDarkShadow, though I appreciate your point regarding me missing the magica, LOL! STR only 30 at start, and you start getting attcked with magic weapons and spells pretty early on, and Altmer have weaknesses to all elemental magic. I always combine them with a stealth so they can sneak their way past most trouble - and they have so much magic available they don't really nead normal weapons, so pointless, imo, to have 'em as combat class.

But thank you all. I shall go back to my build and start over. You have been most helpful.

[Fljotsdale]

Hm, well. I have taken most of the advice. My Nord has Warrior birthsign, Str & End +5, Majors in Armourer, Athletica, Blade, Block, Heavy Armour, Restoration, Marksman.

Now at level 5. Heavy Armour Journeyman. And that's the rub. Heavy is so clunky. Yeah, I KNOW the weight gets reduced 50% at Expert, and wholly at Master, but right now my warrior shambles along like an ape in lead wellies and I don't like it at all!

Is there a :sulk: emoticon anywhere? I'll make do with this instead:

[dragon wench]

Heh! :laugh:

Sounds as though your play style and preferences are quite similar to my own. I too like the stealthy caster types, and when I use heavy armour I feel as though I should be dragging a club behind me and making monosyllabic grunts (actually... the sound set kind of amplifies that feeling )

I have been thinking of creating a Red Guard warrior type, but then I realise this involves heavy armour... and I have a hard time reconciling a character that has the beginning IQ of a petunia and goes running directly off into battle. Stealth is just so much more interesting IMO..

Anyway, I've been watching this thread with interest, do keep us updated on your experiences!

[Fljotsdale]

LOL! Hi, dragon wench. Yeah, I usually play sneaky/mage types. Nords have a starting IQ of 30 with a 60 magica. I have her up to 44 Int currently, with 88 magica.

I dunno why I want a combat class to have brains.

I'll persist for a while yet, but if I ge really teed off with the armour and brainpower, I'll ... abandon Warrior forever!

EDIT: Petunia? Do I get a hint of a HitchHiker's Guide fan?

[Fljotsdale]

Well, so far I played my Nord Warrior to level 8. She has two - no, three - advantages over my usal race and class characters:

1. Hits harder, because physically stronger (initially, anyway)

2. Has more stamina (therefore more fatigue/hit points).

3. Can carry more.

However, those are the ONLY advantages.

Disadvantages:

1. Very slow. I see now why Althletics is needed in Major skills.

2. Very slow with weapon strikes. Most opponents, up to now, get in 2/3 strikes to her one, so battles are just as hard as for a weaker char. Up to now, anyway.

3. Weight of armour uses a lot of weight-bearing capacity that could be used for carrying loot. This does not really contradict 3 (above) though it seems to! Weaker chars do carry less, but at least they don't have to lug around all that heavy armour! And they travel faster on trips back and forth with loot, so waste less time plodding along slowly. It probably more or less equals out... but I'd give the faster char the advantage.

4. Poor stealth skill, which almost negates the use of ranged weapons as a substitute for ranged spells. I've only just managed to get her up to 28 Stealth, so she is still seen almost instantly and is obliged to go into melee (so it was a waste of space, imo, to put Ranged in Major skills: I should've stuck with Sneak).

5. And of course, there is the lack of brains/magica... but that's just the whinge of the creator of principally Stealth/Mage classes!


Anyone like to come to the defence of Combat class?

[galraen]

Fljotsdale, if you're not enjoying it stop doing it! Your making it sound like you've had a hard day at the office not having a fun time playing a game!

I admit I don't understand the carping about slowness, I've never experienced such problems unless I was playing a character with poor Speed. I do usually run all the time, (with sneak on if I don't want Athletics going up) but the only time I've noticed a tardiness when fighting was when I'd forgotten to turn sneak off. Mind you I do use the block/attack/block/attack style of approach, which is the sensible way of fighting IMO, no matter what 'class' you are.

It's not about which is the stronger build, that's easy, straight mage wins every time, it's about role playing the character you're playing AND ENJOYING YOURSELF. If you're not enjoying it, stop and play a role you do enjoy.

[Fljotsdale]

Fljotsdale, if you're not enjoying it stop doing it! Your making it sound like you've had a hard day at the office not having a fun time playing a game!

LOL! I do rather, don't I? :laugh:

I admit I don't understand the carping about slowness, I've never experienced such problems unless I was playing a character with poor Speed. I do usually run all the time, (with sneak on if I don't want Athletics going up) but the only time I've noticed a tardiness when fighting was when I'd forgotten to turn sneak off. Mind you I do use the block/attack/block/attack style of approach, which is the sensible way of fighting IMO, no matter what 'class' you are.

It's not about which is the stronger build, that's easy, straight mage wins every time, it's about role playing the character you're playing AND ENJOYING YOURSELF. If you're not enjoying it, stop and play a role you do enjoy.

No, I know. Yes, Mage is definitely the strongest (though not physically) class.

It's just that I've never played real Combat types, and I thought I should. It doesn't really suit me, true. But I don't like giving up on something I've started. And I actually quite like her; I worked hard on her and she's got a nice face. I'll probably keep her for a while yet... but I have to get rid of that darned heavy armour!

Block/attack/block/attack isn't my style with fast chars (short blade, move fast and stealthily), though I see the need with a combat class - or with my combat char, anyway. I just haven't really got the hang of it yet, and go full tilt at whacking the hell out of the opposition...

[Fljotsdale]

Well, she's now level 10 and has two non-armour items enchanted with Fire Shield (16) and Shock Shield (a measly 13 picked up at the Skingrad Gate). Just completed the Bruma gate with Burd and his 2 guardsmen.
Because my warrior is still so slow - and also, I must admit, because I'm still having trouble adapting to the style of play she needs - both guardsmen died. Burd would probably have died too, if he could at this point in the game. My Mages and Sneakys always manage to keep 'em alive and well.

Anyway, her current stats are:

H 196
M 102
F 239

S 77
I 51
W 40
A 52
S 50
E 70
P 40
L 50

Major Skills:
Armourer 58, Athletics 38, Blade 61, Block 44, Heavy 59, Restoration 42, Marksman 25.

Her armour is currently at 55

I keep trying to increase her speed but it goes up very slowly indeed - partly because she sneaks a lot (she sneaks much better now she is wearing shoes!) but she runs everywhere it's possible to without running into trouble.

So she still plods, though she is not as ape-like as she was (prolly cus I took off her lead wellies .

So: what am I doing wrong?