I was looking through Unearthed Arcana, and talking to my DM about Bloodlines. In UA you get a bonus to your spell caster level, or rather your class level in general, and is added to bonuses you need for it. Like if you were of a major Gold Dragon Bloodline (3 levels), and a level 7 bard, you'd be a level 10 equivalent bard. And if you were to take one level of cleric, or sorcerer, or even assassin, you'd increase those levels by 3 as well.
My DM doesn't know for sure, but he's making a house rule that from now on, a level adjustment will do the same thing.
My question is, is this just his house rule, or is this in the books somewhere as an optional rule? At the very least, does it at least work on creatures that have a LA and are naturally spellcasters like drow clerics or wizards, or half-dragon sorcerers?
Spell Caster Level and Level Adjustment
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kevin video
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kevin video
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Siberys
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Remember that Level and Class Level are two different concepts. a 7th level Bard with a level adjustment of +3 is effectively a 7th level Bard and a 10th level -character-. It does not grant you more spellcasting abilities or any class abilities for that matter.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
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kevin video
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So it will just have to be a houserule then. That's kind of sucky because anyone who wants to be a spell caster is pretty much limited to just bloodlines then. That way they get the incredible bonuses of the adjusted race AND gain bonuses to their caster level.Siberys wrote:Remember that Level and Class Level are two different concepts. a 7th level Bard with a level adjustment of +3 is effectively a 7th level Bard and a 10th level -character-. It does not grant you more spellcasting abilities or any class abilities for that matter.
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Siberys
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That's incorrect.
Bloodlines grant you abilities but take up a level adjustment. You do NOT gain any spellcasting abilities from a bloodline's level adjustment.
Bloodlines grant you abilities but take up a level adjustment. You do NOT gain any spellcasting abilities from a bloodline's level adjustment.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
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kevin video
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It's not incorrect. I didn't say anything about "ability", just level. They don't gain spells per day, they just gain a +1 bonus per level. The level adjustment is taken at certain levels, but our DM makes us take them all at once (for simplicity sake).Siberys wrote:That's incorrect.
Bloodlines grant you abilities but take up a level adjustment. You do NOT gain any spellcasting abilities from a bloodline's level adjustment.
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Siberys
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And I'm telling you they DON'T gain that. At all.they just gain a +1 bonus per level
Lets say you have a Level 1 Bard with a 14 charisma. And now lets say you have a Level 1 bard with a 14 Charisma and an LA of +3. No matter how big of an LA they have, their spellcasting is going to be exactly identical. No new spells known because of the LA, no new slots, no bonus to DC's or durations or damage, absolutely nothing. Barring which spells they choose as known, their number of slots and number of spells known and the power of each spell are 100% identical.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
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kevin video
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Then one of us isn't communicating this properly. Let's try this again.Siberys wrote:And I'm telling you they DON'T gain that. At all.
From UA: A bloodline level grants no increase in base attack bonus or base save bonuses, no hit points or skill points, and no class features. It counts as a normal class level (with no class skills) for the purpose of determining maximum skill ranks.
Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels (such as caster level for spellcasting characters, or save DCs for characters with special abilities whose DCs are based on class level). The character doesn't gain any abilities, spells known, or spells per day from the addition of his bloodline levels, though—only the calculations of his level-based abilities are affected.
If a character has levels in two or more classes in addition to his bloodline levels, each class gains the benefit of adding the bloodline levels when calculating abilities.
For example, a 2nd-level sorcerer with a major bloodline takes a bloodline level when earns enough XP to advance in level. He is treated as a 3rd-level spellcaster for the purpose of spell durations, caster level checks, and so forth. But he doesn't gain a 3rd-level sorcerer's spells per day or spells known.
Similarly, the stunning attacks of a 3rd-level monk with one bloodline level have a save DC equal to 12 (10 + one-half class level) plus her Wisdom modifier, since the bloodline level is treated as if it were a monk class level when calculating the save DC. A 3rd-level monk/3rd-level sorcerer with two bloodline levels would be treated as a 5th-level spellcaster and a 5th-level monk for determining level-based abilities.
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Siberys
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Ok, I apologize. I did not see that. However, that is....extremely broken I will say. To not only allow the bloodline abilities, but spellcasting bonuses through a level adjustment is just insane.If a character has levels in two or more classes in addition to his bloodline levels, each class gains the benefit of adding the bloodline levels when calculating abilities.
For example, a 2nd-level sorcerer with a major bloodline takes a bloodline level when earns enough XP to advance in level. He is treated as a 3rd-level spellcaster for the purpose of spell durations, caster level checks, and so forth. But he doesn't gain a 3rd-level sorcerer's spells per day or spells known.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
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kevin video
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Actually there was another thread that was arguing whether or not it was, and it was determined that it wasn't. One guy pointed out that gold half-dragons become d12, are Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2, Int mod + 6 for skills, darkvision and low-light, immunities to fire, sleep and paralysis, three natural attacks, natural armour +4, a 30-foot cone of fire breath 1/day for 6d8, and if you're large you can fly 120 ft.Siberys wrote:Ok, I apologize. I did not see that. However, that is....extremely broken I will say. To not only allow the bloodline abilities, but spellcasting bonuses through a level adjustment is just insane.
Their bloodline version gains Str +1, Con +1, Int +1, a +2 to four skills, immunity to fire, water breathing, +3 natural armour, two bonus feats, a 30-foot cone of fire breath 1/day for 6d8, affinity to other gold dragons +6, and level bonuses for DC and caster levels.
It just depends on what you're going for. If you're a spellcaster, probably the bloodline unless you WANT to take the half-dragon paragon class. If you're going melee, chances are you'll probably want to go for the actual half-dragon (toss up if you're a Monk or have Improved Uncanny Dodge though).
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kevin video
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True, I'll give you that. But at the same time a LA doesn't give you any spell bonus pre-epic either so it's kind of a toss up again.GawainBS wrote:Bloodlines reduce the number of spells known, which is a big power-down. As a full caster, if you take a greater bloodline, and you have one level in a PrC that doesn't grant casting, you'll never get 9th lvl spells pre-epic. I can imagine that a lot of people are put off by that.
What's PrC?