This forum is to be used for all discussions pertaining to BioWare's Neverwinter Nights, its Shadows of Undrentide and Hordes of the Underdark expansion packs, and any user-created or premium modules.
rdd 10
bard 8(for max attack bonus wwith song)
11(if you want +2 ac and improved inviso casting) or
16 (if you want all of the above +5 ac instead of 2)
pali the rest
my choice would be 19 pali/10 RDD/ 11 bard buts its your choice really haha. or just do 1 bard 10 rdd and rest pali if you want i guess
remember youll need an ok cha and perform score esspecialy if you want to cast imp inviso
might also consider getting curse song, lingering song and/or lasting inspiration in epic levels
Playing solely from numbers, you'd do well to focus on any melee class since the +8 to Strength is going to be all that you really want. Fighters, Paladins Barbarians and Monks are prime choices for this.
Barbarian/Bard/RDD makes for an interesting Singing-Raging incredibly buffed up, self-healing capable character. The Monk/Sorcerer/RDD is pretty standard, and are basically Monk/RDD from any angle, except to qualify for RDD. Both these would basically try to make most use out the strength bonus from the RDD. Other builds would run along these lines too.
I think the Paladin/Sorcerer/RDD would give the further mile, especially into the epic levels. From here, I'm talking about all Sorcerer levels filling in the 10 RDD and maybe 2 Paladin levels, which is about all the bonuses the class would give, you can make up for the missing attack bonuses with spells and the raw strength of the RDD. Taking the Auto-still feats, and then the Auto-quicken feats means that you will be able to cast in the heaviest armor and shields while still blasting away with fireballs and such, and still be a competent melee combatant.
Off-topic (if you care):
However, after all said, I personally think that the RDD lacks power since it's a prestige class with entry for casters, but provide fighter-like bonuses, which dilute the power of the character class, where in D&D, focusing on your specialized choice of career tend to give the best bonus and ability optimization. You spend 10 levels for average base attack bonuses, no spell casting ability, nor feats or buffing abilities in exchange for pretty much +4 to strength. It looks good on it's own, but when compared to the Champion of Torm say, who get a feat and +1 to save every 2 levels it just pales. More feats means Knockdown, Power Attack, Spring Attacks, Two weapon fighting (more damage!), more options means versatility in combat means having the right tool when needed and better saves means less risks against a save or die targeting a poor save, less damage for making the save and less time spend standing around being a target practice board.
Yes, you get that +4 to hit and damage from strength, but with a 3/4 base attack progression, it means it averages out about the same with a full base progression in terms of overall chance to hit. You get +4 damage per hit, but also less attacks per round, your best bet is to get 3, but depending on precise calculation of class level mixes (which would include other level gained abilities), if poorly done, you can end up with 2. To aim for 4 means pushing RDD levels into levels post-20. Full attack bonus means you can get 4 attacks per round, which, when considered along with weapon bonuses, elemental damage bonuses and an increased chance to score critical hits far outweighs +4 damage per round. Then there's concealment which slaps a 50% miss chance to each attack made, meaning more attacks fare far better. The few times the +4 Str would come out on top is when considering damage reduction.
That said, for reference, I feel the same way about the Pale Master too. Note that I'm saying that the class is not great choice, nor the best for power playing, but it's capable enough in it's own right and make for interesting builds.
Should we emphasize on the effect of RDD on the abilities scores distribution at the start of a new game?
Another point I want to raise for answer is a multiclass with sorcerer and RDD. I mean if you want to get the full benefit of a sorcerer class, it takes 20 levels and what is the point of RDD in a sorcerer class except the dragon breath? In a few reviews I read online, the authors( among them IGN ) wrote, quoted " we should NEVER multiclasss a sorcerer class ".
Yes, you really should emphasize on the STR bonus from RDD. It's has been the only reason to ever consider RDD at all on NWN. At least in the PnP version, you could still choose different elements for your breath (every creature and his grandmother's cat would be resistant to fire anyway) and you could fly! I'd say, start with as high as you can get it. And while you're at it, build a Bard/Barbarian combo so you can singe then double rage (although that would hit the max STR bonus cap far too easily)... if playing without a cap, that bonus combo should give you enough STR to break diamonds by breathing alone.
True, that multiclassing the Sorcerer makes it really weak and a really bad idea, which is why the suggestions would take it to Epic levels, where at least, you have a chance to get those full Sorcerer levels.
As mentioned before, RDD's a really weak class in and off itself with the only thing that makes it an option to consider being the permanent STR bonuses, that for two class slots you can probably use with oh.. for monk / weapon master or something.
I would think RDD is a good way to get devestating critical very soon. So pretty much I'd want fighter for AB and weapon master for more threat range? Then just slaughter everything with dev crit.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
haha well yah thats the best build but its illegal. fighter/weaponmaster/rdd
gotta funk with the 2das. a ranger/wm/rdd could be interesting to bane of enemies
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
I have a fighter at level 8, I plan to branch it into to paths above. Both seem interesting. The bard and the rogue also serve as a thief so that I don't have to use Tomi. I prefer Dalean.
Note: I am not even sure I can branch it. Diablo does not allow that so just in case I will select WM first. With this multiclass, I can switch to Dalaen after one or two levels; but the one with RDD , I will have to stay with Tomi for a while. but the benefit of bard's song may be worth it.
The only good rdd;s are clerics, palas and barbs... a monk cannot hit anything. Take 20 of the first levels as a high ab class, and then 10 rdd as fast as possible. with cleric, just take 9 cleric, 1 bard or a sorc, and then 10 rdd.
YOU DONT KNOW THE POWER OF THE DRUNKSIDE ill beat you up with my bottl ...lightsaber!!!And Drunk Side is a bar in KOTOR1... check these out! http://www.xfire.com/screenshots/drunkside/
You'll be missing an attack but AB won't be too bad due to soo many WM levels (I think you get a bonus for epic WM levels right?)
maybe not an elite PVP build but I'm sure you would slaughter the SP campaigns.
Pretty much Fighter/bard/rdd is going to have a higher AB and is going to be more effective against higher AC opponents.
WMbardrdd is going to have a wider threat range for dev crit (for me the whole point of RDD would be to run around early in HoTU with dev crit hehe) and low ac opponents are toast during whirlwinds.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Bard/RDD/WM is doable, but as mentioned, you sacrifice way too much AB pre-epic crippling your power level as a meleer and once you hit epic, things are too late to compensate for. Note that AB only plays a role in level building calculations pre-epic. Epic levels, everyone gets AB at +1/2 levels.
Fighter/Rogue/WM, an interesting build. Good tumble skill ranks and number of skills as well like traps and UMD with Rogue levels taken appropriately. I'd say this works out better than RDD (well I am biased against the RDD!), but for the Fighter/Bard/RDD plus points, performance in combat is not diminished when facing sneak/crit immune targets making it more consistent, if less awesome against sneak/crit-able foes.
Fighter/Bard/RDD... as mentioned, I would've suggested Barbarian over Fighter, but since you are already Fighter, that limits that. Fighter gains options in combat and ability to specialize where Barbarians rage up. The only real complaint I have about Fighters, at least as far as the OC/Exp goes is that the opponents you truly want to Disarm/Knockdown or use those options are the one's who are either immune or difficult enough to affect that makes it disappointing (it's very satisfying and quite amazing how easy a fight can be when you pull it off tho) as compared to brute raging force where it always works.
Another built I just started is monk 22/ bard 8 / RDD 10. Again, the bard is there to act as a thief. Monk is a class that some reviewers suggested not to multiclass. The starting A scores have been adjusted with the RDD in mind, and are:
.......... .......... Starting scores ..... Scores after RDD
Monk is a special character because he can cast arcane spells as well as bard's song. So that we can take advantage of a few good bard 's spells as well.
A good alternative is replacing bard 8 by sorcerer 8. Stoneskin is used to keep pixie from dying to quick.
WM acrues bonuses to their weapon of choice in epic levels
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
mistered wrote:Another built I just started is monk 22/ bard 8 / RDD 10. Again, the bard is there to act as a thief. Monk is a class that some reviewers suggested not to multiclass. The starting A scores have been adjusted with the RDD in mind, and are:
.......... .......... Starting scores ..... Scores after RDD
Monk is a special character because he can cast arcane spells as well as bard's song. So that we can take advantage of a few good bard 's spells as well.
A good alternative is replacing bard 8 by sorcerer 8. Stoneskin is used to keep pixie from dying to quick.
Well if your gonna be acting as a theif you could try making him a dexer. it kinda goes against the whole rdd = str fighter thing but if your rping or just doing campaigns youll be fine. The rdd will also add a lil str for him. also bards dont have any of the useful thief skills as class skills but you could cross class and make use of the skill bonus feats and dex.
Claudius wrote:You'll be missing an attack but AB won't be too bad due to soo many WM levels (I think you get a bonus for epic WM levels right?)
maybe not an elite PVP build but I'm sure you would slaughter the SP campaigns.
Pretty much Fighter/bard/rdd is going to have a higher AB and is going to be more effective against higher AC opponents.
WMbardrdd is going to have a wider threat range for dev crit (for me the whole point of RDD would be to run around early in HoTU with dev crit hehe) and low ac opponents are toast during whirlwinds.
you would only lose 3 ab and yah in non pvp places that isnt that much. so yah the bard/rdd/wm wouldnt be bad. But it would take a while. As shift said you would catch up very late in the game (level 40) but it would be interesting to see how it would play out. do it and tell.
Well if your gonna be acting as a theif you could try making him a dexer
No. That is not my idea. My char only detect and disable traps, not a full time thief. If you have read through my previous posts, then you know what I mean.
Dex Monks (with Finesse) have a special place since it powers both your offense and defense all in one. You give up on damage per hit and being a pain with your Wis based abilities tho. Building up everything in step would keep you well rounded, but more "diluted" in capability, or you could dump Dex and go STR+WIS, although that would mean less "Evasive" action.
Traps roll against Reflex and should allow Evasion (unless it's some custom that changes this norm) so it should be of no concern to just trip every single one you come across as a Monk.
A few reasons not to multiclass a Monk is that it get's better with more levels, one of which I might point out would be SR 10+level, which is quite the best you can get (except from custom items). Diluting levels with something else reduces the effectiveness of this, and renders is near useless if anything more than ~5 non-Monk levels since at best, it keeps only about 50% spell penetration to pure casters of equal level. Others would include the effectiveness of other abilities like Stunning Fist.
If I'm not mistaken, Stoneskin is not as useful past the teen-levels since it only provides DR up to +1. This means that later levels, against +2 or better weapon/enchantment, it grants nothing at all, since all attacks simply bypass the protection. The additional 1d2+1d6 on the occasional roll of 20 does not warrant it a worthwhile effort to try and keep the Pixie alive in violent confrontations. Also, I doubt RDD levels grant familiar levels, so you are stuck with a level 8 familiar, which is near useless other than being prime HP reduction for your opponents, since they will not have the numerical capability to survive at teen leves and beyond. It would be of better option to keep all familiars out of combat past pre-teen levels. It might be something you want to consider.
[QUOTE=Caludious]WM acrues bonuses to their weapon of choice in epic levels [/QUOTE]While no one is or will be refuting that, the point is that it comes in late, and you're giving up number of attacks and taking poor(er) bonuses up until those WM bonuses total up. It's not an end all, just probably not something you might want for a melee focused character.
