Move Silently/Hide in Shadows....EasyTutu

scaryogre · Post by **scaryogre** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:44 am

Hi folks,

I am playing the original BG1 with EasyTutu. Thus I am using the BG2 engine.

I have a F/M/T and I just leveled up in my Thief class. I am trying to determine how to split the points up. I have read that BG1 only used "Stealth" which I assume was MS/HiS combined into one skill?

If so, what is the best way playing BG1 with EasyTutu (BG2 engine) to allocate MS/HiS if I want to backstab effectively? Should they be balanced? Is one more important than the other? Or does it matter?

Thanks!

-scaryogre

Jordoo · Post by **Jordoo** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:07 am

I would consentrate on move silently first because you can always use potions of invisability, cast invisability on yourself, or use the ring of invisability which works once a day. Once you have a decent move silently score you could go for the hide in shadows. Don't forget about the Shadow Armore and the boots of stealth both will boost you Hide In Shadow and Move Silently Scores. Unless you have the experiance cap removed you will probably not get enough points to use for Find Traps so plan well if you want to do that or bring another theif with you. As far as open locks and pick pockets you can always use potions of master theivery which stack.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:11 am

If you want to be combat oriented, go for Hide in Shadows and Move Silently first. Otherwise, you want to get Open Locks, Find Traps and some 135 or so points in Pick Pockets.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:40 am

You'll need "hide in shadows" more than "move silently", since you first have to pass a "hide in shadows" check before you ever can have "move silently" check, sneaking behind an enemy and backstabbing can be done without passing a "move silently" check.
If you use an invisibilty spell or ring you don't have to make "move silently" checks either, Jordoo's post is a little misleading regarding this.
How many points you should distribute in stealth and how many into other skills depends on your playing skill and if other party members are thieves too. It's annoying if you don't have someone in the party to open locks or disarm traps, but having two for this is a waste.

scaryogre · Post by **scaryogre** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:53 am

kmonster wrote:You'll need "hide in shadows" more than "move silently", since you first have to pass a "hide in shadows" check before you ever can have "move silently" check, sneaking behind an enemy and backstabbing can be done without passing a "move silently" check.
If you use an invisibilty spell or ring you don't have to make "move silently" checks either, Jordoo's post is a little misleading regarding this.
How many points you should distribute in stealth and how many into other skills depends on your playing skill and if other party members are thieves too. It's annoying if you don't have someone in the party to open locks or disarm traps, but having two for this is a waste.

Thanks for all the input guys. I have Imoen working on Find Traps and Pick Pockets (currently 90 and 50 respectively). My character (again a F/M/T) is working on Open Locks (50 right now) and Stealth (Hide in Shadows and Move Silently both at 25).

From what you say kmonster, backstabbing doesn't need move silently at all? If so, is it safe to assume that I can focus on Open Locks and Hide in Shadows exclusively?

Out of curiosity, What is move silently used for? Is it for mainly scouting ahead or are there other useful things to do with it in the game?

Are Detect Illusion or Set Traps worth allocating any points towards in BG1 or BG2? I plan on importing my character when I start BG2 so maybe some of these skills won't come into play until then?

Thanks again.

-scaryogre

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:58 am

After your character is detected while hiding in shadows, the move silently skill determines how long you stay hidden for, thus still giving you the opportunity to either retreat or backstab before you're fully seen.

scaryogre · Post by **scaryogre** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:05 am

Crenshinibon wrote:After your character is detected while hiding in shadows, the move silently skill determines how long you stay hidden for, thus still giving you the opportunity to either retreat or backstab before you're fully seen.

OK, so I tried putting 50 in Hide in Shadows with Move Silently still at 25. I can get behind an Ogre, but when I try to attack it isn't a backstab. Is this because my Move Silently is still so low or because you can't backstab an ogre?

Should I improve MS/HiS equally then by putting 12 of my 25 points in each?

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:53 am

You can only backstab with the weapons a thief can use, so no backstabing with two handed swords, morning starts or maces.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:13 am

Some creatures are immune to backstab, undead, constructs and giant sized ones.

Move silently isn't needed for backstabbing, it's nice if you want to scout an area for a few minutes while staying hidden, if you only hide when combat is going to start you don't need it.

Crenshinibon wrote:After your character is detected while hiding in shadows, the move silently skill determines how long you stay hidden for, thus still giving you the opportunity to either retreat or backstab before you're fully seen.

After staying hidden for some time you need a "move silently" check to avoid a message about a failed hiding, but the move silently skill doesn't affect the time you stay hidden after getting the message.

At the next level up I'd boost hide in shadows to 75 and keep it there and start raising move silently and lockpicking to 75. Imoen's trapfinding is already perfect, so don't waste additonal points for it. So unless you want her to set traps or dualclass to mage you can even afford to have her handle the lockpicking.

Detect illusions is useless, setting traps is powerful, but I wouldn't start boosting this skill for your character before BG2, you'll have to spend quite some points for using if effectively.

scaryogre · Post by **scaryogre** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:57 am

kmonster wrote:Some creatures are immune to backstab, undead, constructs and giant sized ones.

Move silently isn't needed for backstabbing, it's nice if you want to scout an area for a few minutes while staying hidden, if you only hide when combat is going to start you don't need it.

At the next level up I'd boost hide in shadows to 75 and keep it there and start raising move silently and lockpicking to 75. Imoen's trapfinding is already perfect, so don't waste additonal points for it. So unless you want her to set traps or dualclass to mage you can even afford to have her handle the lockpicking.

Detect illusions is useless, setting traps is powerful, but I wouldn't start boosting this skill for your character before BG2, you'll have to spend quite some points for using if effectively.

Thanks kmonster! I was planning on dual-classing Imoen to mage, but I believe traditionally this doesn't happen until she is level 8 or so in Thief. Is that correct?

Also, (and more importantly) is there another Thief skill you recommend for her as a dual-class Thief/Mage? You mentioned "unless I want to dualclass to mage" so I am guessing you meant there is a good place to put her points in thief skills besides lockpicking if she will be a dualclass mage at some point?

Note: I have my PC's lockpicking to 50 already so am quite ahead of her in that skill at the moment.

Again many thanks for all the replies. I am having a blast with the game so far. I played it when it first came out many years ago but never got much past the Nashkel mines. Now I am finding myself rather addicted to it.

But there are quite a few things that are not explained in the manual. I was an AD&D PnP player in the 1970s and 1980s, but it's been quite a few years since I have played the PnP game.

-scaryogre

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:55 pm

If you want to dualclass Imoen to mage do it early, thief level 6 is the last level which leaves enough XP for a a proper mage, but you can do it at level 5 or even earlier. I'd put the remaining 25 points you get into pickpocket or maybe hide in shadows.

Since trapfinding is already perfect and you don't need her for lockpicking there's not much more for her to contribute as thief (unless you want her for backstabbing (she can be very effective, but even 5 thief levels are enough for x3) or trapsetting (I'd pump it up to 100 if you want to keep her pure).

If it's worth dualclassing depends on how you want to play her and the other party members, if you don't have one of the pure class mages who you'd like to keep she is the only option to cast spells of the highest level, if you've already 3 or more mages/bards in your party you don't need a 4th one fighting for spell scrolls.