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Welcome back to the world, USA

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C Elegans
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Welcome back to the world, USA

Post by C Elegans »

I'm sitting at an internet cafe at Narita airport, Tokyo, Japan. BBC, CNN, and all major media reports that Obama has won the US election. I'm very, very relieved and happy to hear that. I really hope Obama can reform US economy, modernise US society and foreign politics and leave the religious fundamentalism behind.

Sorry for not having had time to participate in the political discussion here at the board lately. I've been travelling a lot lately, but in a few hours I am going back home to LA and this time it feels so much better :)

PS: Why do all media report that "Obama is the first African-American/black" president of the US? Isn't his mother a white American? Wouldn't that make him 50/50?
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Post by Kienan »

Excellent, excellent news! :D
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Post by Tower_Master »

Did I cry a little?

Absolutely.
I sincerely wish we could re-consider this plan from a perspective that involved pants.
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Post by Claudius »

well I think its because he is the first black president....no president before him has had black ancestry. Hey I think its great but of course I listened to his beliefs and his retoric more than his skin color.

anyhow you know I am positive about the outcome. I toasted my mother and said I was happy for the intentions of all voters and hoping that Obama will be a wise person...hey I think he's a genius he just needs to work hard too.

Well I hope the worst elements don't hope to prey on this because I don't think Obama mama raised any fools and I don't think we need any strife.

Glad you are happy. I salute you for your heart connection to my beloved land, the USA, hey I even love the people in the southern states and I hope they keep the dialogue open, ya know.

Cheers.
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Post by dragon wench »

Over on the northern side of the border... we are still watching the final results come in and we are drinking champagne.... more than a little misty eyed.

Wow... just wow... I feel so privileged to witness something so momentous...
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Post by Bloodstalker »

C Elegans wrote:
PS: Why do all media report that "Obama is the first African-American/black" president of the US? Isn't his mother a white American? Wouldn't that make him 50/50?
Because skin color has been the defining factor in race relations. Let's face it, a racist person never waits to check out how much of what race you may have in your lineage before they classify you as an object to be hated. If your skin color says you are black, then you are black. Besides, everyone in the U.S. is a mutt of some kind, if we had to keep up with what our exact lineages were we'd all go nuts. I'd have to introduce myself as an Irish-German-Native American-American with slight possible touches of Italian and Scottish ancestry. Trust me, we are all a mess. ;)

Seriously, it's a technical thing that just isn't really all that important in this instance. 50/50 or 100%, it is still truly amazing to me that I just sat here wand watched and African American give his acceptence speech for the Presidency.

The most impressive thing to me was the fact that for all intents and purposes, race simply was a non-issue in this election. Obama didn't run on race, and the people didn't elect him based on race. People just seemed to look at the choices available and picked the one they thought was the best person for the job based soley on the issues at hand. To me, that says volumes about how much the United States has grown as a people in the way we view each other. It's nice to see that something this historic and progressive can still happen even in light of the cynicism people usually show towards the human race in general. It makes me hope additional progress in all areas is still within people's reach.
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Post by Maharlika »

Yup, it seems to me that race wasn't much of an issue. :cool:

But why must they trumpet that he is the first African-American President? Why not just the 44th President of the United States? I guess it just magnifies the battlecry of Obama: "Change has come to America."

Good luck to all USians. May your leader show you the path to true greatness.
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Post by C Elegans »

I just heard some people cheering and applauding :D
Bloodstalker wrote:Because skin color has been the defining factor in race relations. Let's face it, a racist person never waits to check out how much of what race you may have in your lineage before they classify you as an object to be hated. If your skin color says you are black, then you are black. Besides, everyone in the U.S. is a mutt of some kind, if we had to keep up with what our exact lineages were we'd all go nuts. I'd have to introduce myself as an Irish-German-Native American-American with slight possible touches of Italian and Scottish ancestry. Trust me, we are all a mess. ;)

Seriously, it's a technical thing that just isn't really all that important in this instance. 50/50 or 100%, it is still truly amazing to me that I just sat here wand watched and African American give his acceptence speech for the Presidency.
I know you're a mess, that's why I can't get used to labels like "African American". People who have an ancestor from a region they can't point out on a map are supposed to be "African American". And in California, I've seen lots of white girls who are more tan than Obama. If you are not called "Irish-German-Native American-American", why should anyone be called African American then? I don't get it. I don't like the way ethnic groups are divided, cathegorised and labelled in the US, and I don't like the segregation. But that's another issue. I like how they define ethnic background in New Zeeland. Since everybody have some Maori descent and some European decent regardless of how they look, you are Maori if you have some Maori descent and wants to identifiy yourself as Maori, and you are European/white if you have some European descent and wants to identify yourself as European. Which means that you can meet blond Maori people; fine, it's a matter of which culture you choose and which tradition you prefer to follow, not the skin colour.

I like that fact that Obama is "African American" or whatever you'd like to call it. Although he wasn't elected on race, I do think it is important and most of all I thinkit's important that so many young and "African American" people VOTED.

Now I have to go to the gate, see you all later!
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Post by Xandax »

C Elegans wrote:I'm sitting at an internet cafe at Narita airport, Tokyo, Japan. BBC, CNN, and all major media reports that Obama has won the US election. I'm very, very relieved and happy to hear that. I really hope Obama can reform US economy, modernise US society and foreign politics and leave the religious fundamentalism behind. <snip>
My sentiments exactly.
Had the McCain of 2000 or 2004 been running, I would have hoped for him, but as the current situation was, and how the campaigns were run - I, and most others in this country, hoped Obama would be elected president.
Even the usually relative unbiased media in this country is excited about the future and to see what Obama's election can bring with it.
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Post by Moonbiter »

Congrats America, I'm so happy for you! But let's not forget the immense pressure this puts on Obama. He's gonna have to put together one hell of a government, and the nutjobs will fight him on every issue down to his choice of socks.
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Post by VonDondu »

C Elegans wrote:I know you're a mess, that's why I can't get used to labels like "African American". People who have an ancestor from a region they can't point out on a map are supposed to be "African American". And in California, I've seen lots of white girls who are more tan than Obama. If you are not called "Irish-German-Native American-American", why should anyone be called African American then? I don't get it. I don't like the way ethnic groups are divided, cathegorised and labelled in the US, and I don't like the segregation. But that's another issue. I like how they define ethnic background in New Zeeland. Since everybody have some Maori descent and some European decent regardless of how they look, you are Maori if you have some Maori descent and wants to identifiy yourself as Maori, and you are European/white if you have some European descent and wants to identify yourself as European. Which means that you can meet blond Maori people; fine, it's a matter of which culture you choose and which tradition you prefer to follow, not the skin colour.
Despite the fact that America is a "melting pot", race and ethnicity are still problematic in America. It's difficult to explain, and a lot of people are sensitive about it. But I'll give it a shot.

The simplest reason why people are called "African American" is because that's what they want to be called. That's the easy part to explain. It's more difficult to explain why they want to be called that.

There are parallels to other ethnic groups, up to a point. For example, some Italian-Americans and Irish-Americans also like to be identified by their ethnicity. It makes them proud of who they are. But there's an important distinction between those groups and African Americans. Italian and Irish immigrants came to America with their ethnic identities intact, and they and their descendants wanted to preserve their identity. People can do that sort of thing in America. You can be an American but live your life according to the old customs if you prefer. On the other hand, there is actually a great deal of friction between various ethnic groups even today. Sometimes it's political. For example, Americans of Taiwanese descent distrust Americans of Chinese descent due to problems between Taiwan and China. Historically, Italian-Americans and Irish-Americans have been at odds with each other, for reasons I don't really understand. There is also a lot of racial prejudice in America. There are also all of the age-old conflicts between people of different religious backgrounds--Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, and so forth. The result is tribalism. I'm not sure how a European sees the situation, but here in America, I think most people would be surprised if people DIDN'T identify themselves by their ethnic background. "White" people who either don't know their own ancestry or who have grown up with a more modern identity such as "Southern Baptist" (which renders ancestry a moot point) are such a predominant group, they don't seem to make a fuss about their ethnicity--at least not on the surface. But not far below the surface, you can be sure that they distinguish themselves from people who are "different" than they are. In that sense, they're just as tribalistic as anyone else. In other words, being white in America is kind of an ethnicity in itself, but since it's the predominant ethnicity, it is considered the norm, rather than an ethnicity, if that makes any sense. Instead of calling themselves "white Americans", they just call themselves "I", "me", "we", and "us".

Here's what makes African Americans unique: they have always been treated as second-class citizens. Mexican Americans and Asian Americans have also suffered from racial discrimination, but African Americans carry a special kind of wound that has been passed down through the generations. Unlike Mexican Americans and Asian Americans whose ancestors came to this country with their cultural identities intact, most African Americans have ancestors who were brought to this country as slaves. They were mistreated and beaten into submission. They were bred like cattle. They were forbidden to learn how to read. They had limited ability to choose their spouses. Sometimes they were forbidden to marry. They developed a defeatist attitude and certain kinds of passive-aggressive behavior that they passed on to their descendents, and the effects are still felt to this day. Many people whose ancestors were slaves have certainly risen above all that because their parents wanted a better life for their children and they pushed their kids in the right direction. They don't have any natural limitations, and under the right circumstances, they can prosper. Others have not been so lucky, and they're still struggling with self-esteem issues. Racial prejudice, persecution, and denial of opportunity have continued to take their toll.

I suppose you could call Barack Obama a "true" African American because his father was from Kenya. But he barely knew his biological father, and he grew up in a mostly white familiy (his stepfather--the father of his half-sister--was Hawaiian), but even Obama had to struggle with self-esteem issues because of the color of his skin and the reaction it provoked in others. He says that his first awareness of racial prejudice was like "a fist in the stomach". One day when he was young, his grandmother asked his grandfather to give her a ride to work because a panhandler had approached her on her way to work the previous day and it made her uncomfortable. When Obama asked his grandfather why it bothered her so much, his grandfather said it was because the man was black. Obama never doubted that his grandparents loved him, but just think about how much that messed with his mind.

African Americans have struggled with their identity for a long time. They're not able to claim their African heritage the way that other ethnic groups have been able to preserve their own cultural identity. Slave ships, auction blocks, and forcible separations between family members created a permanent discontinuity. You probably know what I mean by the "N" word. African Americans want to discard the identity that was given to them by whites. They want their own identity--one they can be proud of. So they have chosen to call themselves African Americans, and they've been trying to understand who they are and how they can find a place in America that gives them the dignity and opportunity they deserve. For starters, they wanted people to stop calling them by the "N" word. Many years ago, they thought they were making progress if other people called them "colored" or "Negro". "Black" is a more recent term, and although it is widely accepted today, some African Americans didn't really like it, and it took them a while to get used to it. Civil rights leaders such as Jesse Jackson promoted the adoption of the term "African American" to put less emphasis on skin color and bring their cultural identity more in line with other ethnic groups such as Italian-Americans. If black people are going to be distinguished by their ethnicity (and it looks like they always will be, at least for the foreseeable future), then they want the same respect as people of other ethnicities.

As you have suggested, "African American" is problematic because most African Americans don't know anything about Africa and don't have any connection to Africa besides the fact that their ancestors came from Africa a long time ago. Some of my ancestors came from Prussia about 150 years ago, but I don't think of myself as a German-American, because I just don't feel any sort of connection to them. I guess some African Americans think they feel a connection to their ancestors just because they are still wounded by their status as second-class citizens. It's a delicate issue, so I try not to sound like I'm criticizing them.

When I look at Obama and listen to him speak, I don't think of him as a black man or an African American. I see an intelligent, thoughtful man of humble origins who understands what life is like for ordinary Americans who weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouth, and who might turn out to be one of the best Presidents we've ever had. (Of course, if he talked like Chris Rock, I'm sure I would see him as a black man.) :) But I acknowledge the fact that African Americans are elated because "one of their own" has actually been elected President of the United States. Until the results were finally in, they didn't think it was possible in their lifetime. If it gives them hope and makes them believe that anyone can succeed in America, no matter what color they are, and if Obama wants to acknowledge that, then it's alright with me.

I realize you were making a distinction between race and ethnicity when you mentioned the Maori people and people of European descent in New Zealand, and I probably haven't addressed that issue to your satisfaction. But I really don't know what it would be like to live in a country that ignored race. I hope this doesn't sound rude or too personal, but did being of Asian descent have any effect on your self-esteem when you were growing up? I know you identify yourself as a Swede, and maybe Sweden has such a monolithic culture, you don't see why ethnicity is such a big deal. You might think that America should be openminded about racial differences, but we're a redneck, backwater country, and you can't force a change like that to happen just because you want it to. A lot of people want this country to change, but it's not going to happen in the foreseeable future. "Even" someone as open-minded as I am is very aware of racial tensions in this country, and other Americans are not going to let me forget about them, and that makes it impossible for me to ignore race.
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Post by SupaCat »

Isn't Barrack Obama a mulat? White mother, Black father or backwards?
I simply don't like the term African-American because a lot of black people get named that way without having any connection to Africa. Yeah, sure, their great-great-great parents were propably slaves brought to America to work, but then Americans would be English-Americans.

Anyway, Congrats America. I'm really jealous that you have such a great speaker their and a president that will surely change the negative view of the rest of the world on your land. If only we had a speacher like that...
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Post by Vicsun »

Last night was a disappointment for me. Obama had the election locked for a while now, but every single race that was closer and I focused on let me down. Al Franken seems to have failed to unseat the incumbent republican by something like 500 votes, Ted "I'm a convicted felon who believes the internet is tubular" Stevens got re-elected in Alaska, and gay marriage was banned in a few states. :(

I'm not ready to pat America on the back quite yet.
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Post by Claudius »

I met a guy from New Zealand who grew up in a lower class background. He was a very bright chemist who had his Ph.D. But because of his background he didn't like Mauri people. He had gotten in fights with them growing up, and didn't like those people. Kind of anecdotal, but hey its (one of) my only experience with New Zealand.
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Post by Dowaco »

SupaCat wrote:Isn't Barrack Obama a mulat? White mother, Black father or backwards?
I simply don't like the term African-American because a lot of black people get named that way without having any connection to Africa. Yeah, sure, their great-great-great parents were propably slaves brought to America to work, but then Americans would be English-Americans.
Actually Obama IS African-American. His father was Kenyan.
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Post by VonDondu »

SupaCat wrote:Isn't Barrack Obama a mulat? White mother, Black father or backwards?
I simply don't like the term African-American because a lot of black people get named that way without having any connection to Africa. Yeah, sure, their great-great-great parents were propably slaves brought to America to work, but then Americans would be English-Americans.
The term "mulat" (or "mulatto") is not used very much in the United States. But it's true that Obama's father was African (from Kenya), and his mother was white. He barely knew his biological father. His stepfather (the father of his American half-sister Maya) was Indonesian, and he lived with his white grandparents for much of his early life. (Incidentally, his grandmother was part Cherokee.) Obama is biologically half black, but culturally I would say he is mostly white*, although he has become much more involved in the black community as an adult. His wife is black.

I too have problems calling him either "black" or "African American". The color of his skin is what we call "black". But is that what defines an African American? How much does he have in common with people whose ancestors were American slaves? Personally, I don't think race is all that important. I don't go around saying, "My ancestors were European." That just isn't how I identify myself. For census purposes, we are sometimes asked about our race. Someone like me is called "Caucasian" or "white". But it doesn't really have any cultural implications (aside from the fact that people like me usually don't eat any kind of bread besides white bread). People of Hispanic origin in America often refer to themselves as "white" because they don't have any cultural ties to Latin countries. It would be very racist of us to insist that they be called "Hispanic" just because of their blood or skin color. And suppose a child of Italian descent is adopted by a white midwestern family. Should he be called "Italian-American"? That sounds ridiculous.

Obama didn't really know what it was like to grow up in an African American family, but the African American community has claimed him as one of their own because his father was African and his skin is black. I think that's putting too much focus on race and not enough focus on individuality. I have to admit that I'm confused about what being African American really means. It apparently isn't the same thing as being Chinese American (like my bilingual, half-Chinese niece whose mother grew up in China) or Italian-American or Irish-American, etc. Maybe I'm just too out of touch with my European "brothers and sisters" to understand what it means.

On the other hand, I feel like I'm in touch with my fellow Americans (including whites, blacks, Latinos, Chinese Americans, Southern Baptists, etc.). I think we should all be called "Americans" and leave it at that. But if people want to be identified a certain way, then I will respect their wishes. All I'm saying is, I don't always understand how they define their identity.


* EDIT: On second thought, maybe I need to do more research about Obama's background before I draw a conclusion like that. Obama lived in Indonesia (his step-father's native country) for about four or five years, and he spent a few weeks in Kenya when he was in his twenties (where he met some of his relatives on his father's side of the family for the first time). Most of my knowledge about his background came from reading articles about his grandmother who passed away on Monday. Frankly, I've been reluctant to look up more information about Obama because of all the hateful, racist, deceitful filth that's been clogging up the tubes on the inter web. I just don't want to see that sort of thing.
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Post by dragon wench »

I feel somewhat reluctant to post this.. and as a preamble I want to say I mean no disrespect or offense to anyone here... :)

I have spent the morning perusing news sources around the globe as well as places such as YouTube, forums etc., and I have seen a prevailing theme..
So many people are celebrating Obama's victory in part because he is African American, and they believe this election represents a repudiation of America's image as one of the most racist nations on earth...
Closer to home, I had an argument with a friend here in Canada...

In some ways, I am a bit guilty of this myself... but after sober reflection..

People are so very quick to point their fingers at the US with the label of "racist," and yes... it is racist in many areas... The KKK still exist, the country's history bears a horrifying similarity to that in South Africa. All of this is true...

However, can we imagine a person of First Nations descent becoming Prime Minister in Canada? Can we imagine a Muslim from Algeria or Tunisia becoming the President of France? Can we imagine a Turkish leader in Germany? Can we imagine somebody of Korean or Ainu descent becoming Prime Minister in Japan? I could go on... but I don't think I really need to ;)
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Post by VonDondu »

Dowaco wrote:Actually Obama IS African-American. His father was Kenyan.
I see your point. But let me ask you this. Suppose a child of Italian descent is adopted by a white midwestern family. Should he be called Italian American?
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Post by VonDondu »

dragon wench wrote:can we imagine a person of First Nations descent becoming Prime Minister in Canada? Can we imagine a Muslim from Algeria or Tunisia becoming the President of France? Can we imagine a Turkish leader in Germany? Can we imagine somebody of Korean or Ainu descent becoming Prime Minister in Japan? I could go on... but I don't think I really need to ;)
Those countries are not the same as America, because they're not "melting pots". America is supposed to be more tolerant, "color blind", and diverse (in theory), so it is much easier to imagine a member of a minority group being elected to high office in America than it is to imagine an "outsider" being elected to high office in a more monolithic culture. "America is the greatest country in the world," you know.
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Post by SupaCat »

Descent=lineage; ancestry

Is the child born in America? If so, he is American, wheter his parents were Italian or not.
Is he born in Italy and then goes to America to live there? Then he is Italian American.

Can an Italian child be accepted as adoptive child if it doesn't have the american nationality?

EDIT: Actually,when writing this text, it felt really wrong. Putting a brand on people... Just seems something that the extreme rightwing party's in this land would do.

@Dragon Wench: Isn't it a little extreme to compare your country's history to that of South Africa?
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