cheap tricks

orphanfeast99 · Post by **orphanfeast99** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:10 pm

one of my friends has used a template from monster manual 3.5 to make a minotaur character which, needless to say i overpowered and has no weaknesses. does anyone know of a rule that will stop this abomination (the thing is only level five and it already took out an oger for palor's sake)

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:13 pm

Well...theres two problems already.

First off, lest the DM is houseruling, it is impossible for a Minotaur Character to be below level 6, as all Minotaur characters start with 6 monster hit dice. Not to mention, you add on the level adjustment, which makes their effective starting level 8. As a level 8 character, experience also comes into play, therefore his starting experience is 28,000, and his next level experience is 36,000, which should slow the process of his leveling if the other characters are low in level.

Secondly, ANY level five character (even a gnome paladin with a dagger, the weakest combination I can think of) can take down an Ogre. Ogre's are CR 3, and a Level 5 character is roughly CR 5.

orphanfeast99 · Post by **orphanfeast99** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:39 am

sry, meant diff type of oger, dont remember exactly, somthing out of a fiend folio

orphanfeast99 · Post by **orphanfeast99** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:41 am

wait so what your saying is that this beasty is LEGAL, i was hoping for some kind of loophole. as for the hole "starting at level 8" we dont play enough for a three level jump to be insignificant, that would just make the problem worse!!!

orphanfeast99 · Post by **orphanfeast99** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:44 am

wait now that i look at it that might work!, can you site were you got that rule from about his effective level?

Just need proof

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:14 am

Please do not triple post. There is an edit function you can use instead of cluttering up the forums with unnecessary extra posts.

As for the actual rule itself-

Reading The Monster Entries :: d20srd.org

wait so what your saying is that this beasty is LEGAL, i was hoping for some kind of loophole. as for the hole "starting at level 8" we dont play enough for a three level jump to be insignificant, that would just make the problem worse!!!

No, I said it was -illegal-

orphanfeast99 · Post by **orphanfeast99** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:17 am

wait, expain that hole deal again, im a beginner ill admit but im not sure what your saying, is his character illegal only because he is level 5? or is there some other reason

and either way is there any weakness to a minotaur character? or am i just going to have to bump up the challenge level a little?

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:10 am

The character is illegal because a Minotaur's base starting level is level 6. He has six hit dice to start out with, it is impossible to have a level five minotaur unless you're house ruling or using Savage Species, which I doubt you are.

Secondly, to balance things out, the best you can do is give him more of a challenge. Weakening his character is a bad idea.

orphanfeast99 · Post by **orphanfeast99** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:29 am

he is just one of five players, if i put up a few creatures to take him down a peg they might end up killing everyone else. I havent looked at his character sheet in a while but im pretty sure he has like 56 HP which is not somthing that can be easily balanced in a party with an average lvl of 6

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:37 am

So, wait now, this changes things. Did HE take down the Ogre, or did THEY take it down?

eragonn9 · Post by **eragonn9** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:00 pm

And also, did he start out as a minotaur? If he didn't start as one, there would have to be some powerful magic to let him change his race. And then you can just say that the magic doesn't cover minotaurs.

And to clarify the level thing for the minotaur, take its Hit dice + it's level adjustment. This = 8. Now subtract 8 from his character's level. The resulting number is the most class levels he can have, as that creature.

Lair-Craft Lord · Post by **Lair-Craft Lord** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:52 am

What about having it fight against a wight or similar that 'just happens' to hit it a few times - they have level drain. THAT way, it can still be a minotaur but only be level 2 or 3.

Unless I'm reading this thread wrong, or someone know of rules that wouldn't allow that... lol

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:41 am

Negative levels work slightly differently.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:41 pm

Negative levels isn't going down a level, it's a -1 to all attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, saving throws, -5 hit points, and -1 effective level when using an ability that is based off of a level (such as an enemy using blasphemy on the negative leveled creature), as well as the affected creature loses one prepared spell of his highest slot.

But that's it. Most level based effects stick, such as base attack bonuses. So...even if you have 5 negative levels, if you were high enough in level to gain multiple attacks on BAB, you still can use all your attacks (Just at a -5 penalty).

Demortis · Post by **Demortis** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:47 am

Wait, the way I'm seein it is that the Mino is the tank and everyone else is just along for the ride... If need be send in a few lvl 8 bards, have one cast Hold Monster on the Mino

Mino's have weak will saves. Hold Monster :: d20srd.org Besides, 3 lvl 8 bards would wreak the party if the Mino is the only one who can fight... Sorry, I just got side tracked looking at a scary weapon combo. A +1 Fleshgrinding, Merrow Crushing, Wounding Adamantine Dagger. Simply insert and in 5 rounds you just did 10 con damage

Yes, its an epic weapon, but one can dream

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:16 am

Use some Dust of Sneezing and Choking. That's a very dirty trick, and even , theoreticly, on the party's level.

Demortis · Post by **Demortis** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Craft your own deep sleep arrows