Yes, be warned, there are lots of spoilers here if you haven't finished the game. So read no further if you don't want them revealed.
I have finished the game already, but I don't quite understand the nameless One's lift up until the point he awakes on the table without his memory. If we could piece together his life history up until that point, if you know it I'd appreciate it. Here's what I know
He has 3 previous lives, a paranoid incarnation, and two others. But, when you meet them in the Fortress why do they look exactly like he does? If they were past lives, past incarnations of himself, why would they have identical looking bodies? And I know one of them was a powerful mage, you have to use the bronze sphere to release it. I don't know how to use it either.
One of his past incarnations killed Deionarra.
He wanted to be immortal, but something went terribly wrong and he achieved it, but lost his memory as well. His soul/mortality (according to Ravel and Lothar) became a being in it's own right and having it's own consciousness- The Transcendant One, and every time he dies and comes back to life a shadow is born.
He had something to do with blood war, as the two Abishai in the bar say.
If I can't get my stats all the way to all 25's by the time I get the fortress I'll use the tome of cheats to do so. I know it's cheating, but if there's isn't a way I must, in order to have all dialogue options I possibly can, many of which only exist with high enough stats.
Nameless one life history, lots of spoilers
Needless to say, spoilers follow.
While the endgame does need your stats to be pretty high depending on the ending you'd like, there's plenty of ways to get them that high; *SPOILER*
The Nameless One has had *countless* incarnations, the ones you meet in the Fortress are just the ones that had a significant impact on the game. They all look similar to the Nameless One because, well, they needed to show that they were essentially the same person and there's only so much detail they could put into the character models with the graphics engine for the game. They're described differently (esp. the Paranoid Incarnation, I think) and all act different, but they look the same. You could make up something about how they all look the same because they're all derived from the memories of the Nameless One, but the choice was pretty much graphically based, I would assume.
Deionarra was in love with the Practical Incarnation, which if I remember correctly was a rather recent incarnation. He had a significant impact on the stories of Morte and Dak'kon as well.
The original (the "Good Incarnation" you meet the in Fortress) did something so bad in his lifetime that, instead of pay for his crime in the afterlife, he sought immortality to get more time to atone. Ravel gave it to him, but when they tested it, he lost all of his memories, including that of the crime. So, there was no way to really atone for it.
While the endgame does need your stats to be pretty high depending on the ending you'd like, there's plenty of ways to get them that high; *SPOILER*
Spoiler
the Bronze Sphere is essentially a way to let the player boost stats for the final endgame. To use it, you need to get the right dialogue with the good incarnation.
Deionarra was in love with the Practical Incarnation, which if I remember correctly was a rather recent incarnation. He had a significant impact on the stories of Morte and Dak'kon as well.
The original (the "Good Incarnation" you meet the in Fortress) did something so bad in his lifetime that, instead of pay for his crime in the afterlife, he sought immortality to get more time to atone. Ravel gave it to him, but when they tested it, he lost all of his memories, including that of the crime. So, there was no way to really atone for it.
If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.
I'm not sure how old the Nameless One is. He might be over a thousand years old, or maybe only a few centuries. The game is somewhat inconsistent on that point. When you visit Ravel in her maze, Ravel says that she waited "centuries" for the Nameless One to return to her, and I think that might be one of the best clues to determine the Nameless One's age. She has been in the maze for a very long time.
The original incarnation was a charming, good-looking man who was able to make Ravel fall in love with him with his sweet words. (If you try to flatter her when you meet her, she says she knows you're not sincere, but she doesn't care about truth; she enjoys the flattery because it makes her feel good, whether it's truthful or not, and she tells you to keep it coming.) Before the original incarnation met her, he committed some sort of horrible act. As a result, in the afterlife he must fight in the Blood War forever (or until his spectral body is destroyed and his essence merges with planes). To avoid such a horrible fate, he wanted to atone for his crime, but he knew it would take several lifetimes to perform enough good deeds to compensate for his crime. Therefore, he wanted to become immortal so he would have more time. He told Ravel that he had a puzzle for her to solve: could she make him immortal? She agreed to do so, and she partially succeeded.
However, as Ravel explains, stripping away his Mortality turned him into a "shell". His body could recover from almost any sort of wound that did not completely destroy his flesh, but his mind became fractured. Every time he died, he lost his memories. Each time he awoke, he became a new incarnation.
One of his earlier incarnations met a woman in the Clerk's Ward named Aelwyn. (She is the friend Nemelle was looking for.) Aelwyn says that she and the Nameless One were lovers about two centuries ago. He was kind, and his body was not covered with so many scars. But he was murdered, and he disappeared from her life. About fifty years ago, she met him again when he was the Paranoid Incarnation. He tried to kill her, so she killed him in self-defense. (She has the power to kill the Nameless One with a mere thought.)
Apparently, the Paranoid Incarnation lived a relatively long time (perhaps a few years), which gave him time to do a lot of things around Sigil. If you read his journal (the Dodecahedron), you can gain some insight into his life. For example, he consulted an oracle who told him that after the Nameless One died three more times, he would no longer lose his memories. I suppose that's why the latest incarnation (the one you play) does not lose his memories when he is killed.
Due to a really strange twist in the nature of reality, you can find the body of the Lost Incarnation in the Catacombs. The corpse's arm is removeable and can be used as a weapon. If you take the severed arm to Fell, he can copy the tattoos that are on it and give them to you. Each of them tells a little story about the Lost Incarnation's life. He was a thief who led a miserable existence huddling in the streets for shelter.
Judging by the way Deionarra's father talks about her, the Practical Incarnation must have existed a few decades ago. Also, a character in the Hive named Meir'am says she saw the Practical Incarnation and his comrades pass by her "a long time ago". He had dealings with Pharod. Pharod initially refused to see him until he killed dozens of Pharod's men and hung them on the walls, which finally got Pharod's attention. He wanted to find the Bronze Sphere which he believed was somewhere in Pharod's domain. He had tattoos put on his back to remind him of his mission in case he died, and he kept a journal made of pages of skin, so it stands to reason that he existed prior to the Paranoid Incarnation, who destroyed the journal, set fire to the records kept by Deionarra's father, and tried to remove his tattoos.
The Practical Incarnation did not know who Ignus was, but I would guess that the incarnation who trained Ignus in the ways of magic preceded the Practical Incarnation. I'm not sure when Ignus tried to burn the Hive, but I think it was several decades ago.
I'm not sure which incarnation tried to let demons from the lower planes swarm into Sigil, but it might have been the Paranoid Incarnation. The Lady of Pain pursued the incarnation who was responsible for harming Sigil, and I think the Paranoid Incarnation is the one who was sent to a maze by the Lady of Pain, so they might be the same incarnation.
One of the earlier incarnations was pursued by Vhaillor, so he led Vhaillor into a trap (the prison cell in Curst). It might have been the Practical Incarnation, but I don't know for certain.
I'm still trying to figure out what happened between the Nameless One, Trias, and Fjhull. The Pillar of Skulls says that one of the Nameless One's previous incarnations confided in Trias and told him about the Fortress of Regrets. It must have been the Practical Incarnation since he knew how to get there. But that seems quite out of character for the Practical Incarnation, and if the game ever explained why he did that, I must have missed it. Trias originally says he doesn't know how to reach the Fortress of Regrets (he's lying) and says you should ask Fjhull. Fjhull doesn't know how to get there (I can't figure out why Trias thought he could help you), but Fjhull has heard about the Fortress of Regrets (which makes you wonder how many people know about it). Fjhull suggests that you should ask the Pillar of Skulls how to get there, since the Pillar possesses so much information. The Pillar can in fact help you (it tells you that Trias knows where to find the portal and it tells you what the key is). You have to return to Trias and ask him for the precise location of the portal.
In keeping with the Rule of Three, three characters lead you to the Nameless One's Mortality. Ravel knows that the Nameless One's Mortality has been separated from him and is living a life of its own somewhere, Trias knows how to reach the Fortress of Regrets, and Fjhull is able to tell the Nameless One to consult the Pillar of Skulls for information. They are the "enemies three" who were mentioned by Deionarra, but I have not figured out why she calls them "enemies". The Nameless One's Mortality wants to kill all three of them so that the Nameless One will never be able to find the Fortress of Regrets again.
Judging by various memories and conversations, the Nameless One has had many dealings with demons in the past (you can meet a couple of them in the Smoldering Corpse bar), and it's possible that he might have met Fjhull in an earlier incarnation, but Fjhull doesn't remember ever meeting him. (So apparently he did not hear about the Fortress of Regrets from the Nameless One.) Before Trias became a Fallen Deva, he tricked Fjhull into signing a contract that put a curse on him: as long as Trias remains alive, Fjhull must be kind and generous to everyone. Trias tells the Nameless One to seek help from Fjhull probably just to torment him, and Fjhull helps the Nameless One because he has no choice. Here's what I don't understand. If the Nameless One tries to kill Trias, Trias laughs and says that once he is dead, the Nameless One will no longer have any protection from "the horrors that will consume him", and he refers specifically to Fjhull. I guess that means that Fjhull has some sort of grudge against the Nameless One and will try to harm him once he is free of the curse. I suppose most players kill Trias so they can acquire Celestial Fire, but when it comes to the big picture, it looks like a big mistake. (You can also get the Tattoo of the Redeemer if you spare Trias's life and convince him to ask his father for forgiveness.) I don't understand why Fjhull poses a threat to the Nameless One, and I don't understand why Trias is protecting him. Something must have happened between them, but if the game ever explains it, I must have missed it.
When you meet the Nameless One's Mortality, you learn that they are linked together. Whenever the Nameless One acquires knowledge and experience, his Mortality also benefits from it. His Mortality seems to be aware of everything that happens to him, and his Morality retains all of his memories. When the Nameless One merges with the Practical Incarnation, the Paranoid Incarnation, and the Good Incarnation, he recovers some of his old memories and some of his old powers. When the Nameless One merges with his Mortality, he becomes more powerful than you can imagine. But as he becomes mortal once again, he is apparently taken away to the afterlife by "the powers" where he must meet his fate. All of the cool weapons and stat increases you've been trying to get don't really matter.
You don't need 25 in all your stats to get the best dialogue options. The following stats are the best you ever need:
Strength 21 (lets you overpower the Paranoid Incarnation; not necessary if you know the Udo language and use diplomacy instead of brawn, and you can still defeat the Paranoid Incarnation by outlasting him if your Constitution is 21 or higher)
Dexterity 19 (it lets you show off in Curst if you train as a Thief for the first time)
Constitution 21 (only matters if your Strength is less than 21)
Intelligence 21 (it lets you see one trivial piece of dialogue in Curst; otherwise you don't need Intelligence over 19 if your Wisdom is 21 or higher)
Wisdom 24 (lets you see the truth behind everything)
Charisma 25 (lets you give Nordom the maximum upgrade; Charisma 24 is sufficient to persuade the Nameless One's Mortality to cooperate with him, but there's also another option if you have used the Bronze Sphere and gained the knowledge from it, so high Charisma isn't absolutely necessary)
The original incarnation was a charming, good-looking man who was able to make Ravel fall in love with him with his sweet words. (If you try to flatter her when you meet her, she says she knows you're not sincere, but she doesn't care about truth; she enjoys the flattery because it makes her feel good, whether it's truthful or not, and she tells you to keep it coming.) Before the original incarnation met her, he committed some sort of horrible act. As a result, in the afterlife he must fight in the Blood War forever (or until his spectral body is destroyed and his essence merges with planes). To avoid such a horrible fate, he wanted to atone for his crime, but he knew it would take several lifetimes to perform enough good deeds to compensate for his crime. Therefore, he wanted to become immortal so he would have more time. He told Ravel that he had a puzzle for her to solve: could she make him immortal? She agreed to do so, and she partially succeeded.
However, as Ravel explains, stripping away his Mortality turned him into a "shell". His body could recover from almost any sort of wound that did not completely destroy his flesh, but his mind became fractured. Every time he died, he lost his memories. Each time he awoke, he became a new incarnation.
One of his earlier incarnations met a woman in the Clerk's Ward named Aelwyn. (She is the friend Nemelle was looking for.) Aelwyn says that she and the Nameless One were lovers about two centuries ago. He was kind, and his body was not covered with so many scars. But he was murdered, and he disappeared from her life. About fifty years ago, she met him again when he was the Paranoid Incarnation. He tried to kill her, so she killed him in self-defense. (She has the power to kill the Nameless One with a mere thought.)
Apparently, the Paranoid Incarnation lived a relatively long time (perhaps a few years), which gave him time to do a lot of things around Sigil. If you read his journal (the Dodecahedron), you can gain some insight into his life. For example, he consulted an oracle who told him that after the Nameless One died three more times, he would no longer lose his memories. I suppose that's why the latest incarnation (the one you play) does not lose his memories when he is killed.
Due to a really strange twist in the nature of reality, you can find the body of the Lost Incarnation in the Catacombs. The corpse's arm is removeable and can be used as a weapon. If you take the severed arm to Fell, he can copy the tattoos that are on it and give them to you. Each of them tells a little story about the Lost Incarnation's life. He was a thief who led a miserable existence huddling in the streets for shelter.
Judging by the way Deionarra's father talks about her, the Practical Incarnation must have existed a few decades ago. Also, a character in the Hive named Meir'am says she saw the Practical Incarnation and his comrades pass by her "a long time ago". He had dealings with Pharod. Pharod initially refused to see him until he killed dozens of Pharod's men and hung them on the walls, which finally got Pharod's attention. He wanted to find the Bronze Sphere which he believed was somewhere in Pharod's domain. He had tattoos put on his back to remind him of his mission in case he died, and he kept a journal made of pages of skin, so it stands to reason that he existed prior to the Paranoid Incarnation, who destroyed the journal, set fire to the records kept by Deionarra's father, and tried to remove his tattoos.
The Practical Incarnation did not know who Ignus was, but I would guess that the incarnation who trained Ignus in the ways of magic preceded the Practical Incarnation. I'm not sure when Ignus tried to burn the Hive, but I think it was several decades ago.
I'm not sure which incarnation tried to let demons from the lower planes swarm into Sigil, but it might have been the Paranoid Incarnation. The Lady of Pain pursued the incarnation who was responsible for harming Sigil, and I think the Paranoid Incarnation is the one who was sent to a maze by the Lady of Pain, so they might be the same incarnation.
One of the earlier incarnations was pursued by Vhaillor, so he led Vhaillor into a trap (the prison cell in Curst). It might have been the Practical Incarnation, but I don't know for certain.
I'm still trying to figure out what happened between the Nameless One, Trias, and Fjhull. The Pillar of Skulls says that one of the Nameless One's previous incarnations confided in Trias and told him about the Fortress of Regrets. It must have been the Practical Incarnation since he knew how to get there. But that seems quite out of character for the Practical Incarnation, and if the game ever explained why he did that, I must have missed it. Trias originally says he doesn't know how to reach the Fortress of Regrets (he's lying) and says you should ask Fjhull. Fjhull doesn't know how to get there (I can't figure out why Trias thought he could help you), but Fjhull has heard about the Fortress of Regrets (which makes you wonder how many people know about it). Fjhull suggests that you should ask the Pillar of Skulls how to get there, since the Pillar possesses so much information. The Pillar can in fact help you (it tells you that Trias knows where to find the portal and it tells you what the key is). You have to return to Trias and ask him for the precise location of the portal.
In keeping with the Rule of Three, three characters lead you to the Nameless One's Mortality. Ravel knows that the Nameless One's Mortality has been separated from him and is living a life of its own somewhere, Trias knows how to reach the Fortress of Regrets, and Fjhull is able to tell the Nameless One to consult the Pillar of Skulls for information. They are the "enemies three" who were mentioned by Deionarra, but I have not figured out why she calls them "enemies". The Nameless One's Mortality wants to kill all three of them so that the Nameless One will never be able to find the Fortress of Regrets again.
Judging by various memories and conversations, the Nameless One has had many dealings with demons in the past (you can meet a couple of them in the Smoldering Corpse bar), and it's possible that he might have met Fjhull in an earlier incarnation, but Fjhull doesn't remember ever meeting him. (So apparently he did not hear about the Fortress of Regrets from the Nameless One.) Before Trias became a Fallen Deva, he tricked Fjhull into signing a contract that put a curse on him: as long as Trias remains alive, Fjhull must be kind and generous to everyone. Trias tells the Nameless One to seek help from Fjhull probably just to torment him, and Fjhull helps the Nameless One because he has no choice. Here's what I don't understand. If the Nameless One tries to kill Trias, Trias laughs and says that once he is dead, the Nameless One will no longer have any protection from "the horrors that will consume him", and he refers specifically to Fjhull. I guess that means that Fjhull has some sort of grudge against the Nameless One and will try to harm him once he is free of the curse. I suppose most players kill Trias so they can acquire Celestial Fire, but when it comes to the big picture, it looks like a big mistake. (You can also get the Tattoo of the Redeemer if you spare Trias's life and convince him to ask his father for forgiveness.) I don't understand why Fjhull poses a threat to the Nameless One, and I don't understand why Trias is protecting him. Something must have happened between them, but if the game ever explains it, I must have missed it.
When you meet the Nameless One's Mortality, you learn that they are linked together. Whenever the Nameless One acquires knowledge and experience, his Mortality also benefits from it. His Mortality seems to be aware of everything that happens to him, and his Morality retains all of his memories. When the Nameless One merges with the Practical Incarnation, the Paranoid Incarnation, and the Good Incarnation, he recovers some of his old memories and some of his old powers. When the Nameless One merges with his Mortality, he becomes more powerful than you can imagine. But as he becomes mortal once again, he is apparently taken away to the afterlife by "the powers" where he must meet his fate. All of the cool weapons and stat increases you've been trying to get don't really matter.
You don't need 25 in all your stats to get the best dialogue options. The following stats are the best you ever need:
Strength 21 (lets you overpower the Paranoid Incarnation; not necessary if you know the Udo language and use diplomacy instead of brawn, and you can still defeat the Paranoid Incarnation by outlasting him if your Constitution is 21 or higher)
Dexterity 19 (it lets you show off in Curst if you train as a Thief for the first time)
Constitution 21 (only matters if your Strength is less than 21)
Intelligence 21 (it lets you see one trivial piece of dialogue in Curst; otherwise you don't need Intelligence over 19 if your Wisdom is 21 or higher)
Wisdom 24 (lets you see the truth behind everything)
Charisma 25 (lets you give Nordom the maximum upgrade; Charisma 24 is sufficient to persuade the Nameless One's Mortality to cooperate with him, but there's also another option if you have used the Bronze Sphere and gained the knowledge from it, so high Charisma isn't absolutely necessary)
You don't have to kill Trias to get Celestial Fire. You can steal it from him.VonDondu wrote: I suppose most players kill Trias so they can acquire Celestial Fire, but when it comes to the big picture, it looks like a big mistake.
Ok, well, maybe it is very well known, so sorry if this looks a little stupid on my side.
I didn't know you could steal Celestial Fire from Trias. Do you mean by pickpocketing? The dialogue begins as soon as he sees you, and you can't pickpocket him when the dialogue is over because he is hostile. In any case, it never occurred to me.Jimwth wrote:You don't have to kill Trias to get Celestial Fire. You can steal it from him.
Ok, well, maybe it is very well known, so sorry if this looks a little stupid on my side.
Yeah, the dialogue begins, but only if Trias sees TNO. If you get Annah alone before him, he will stand still and do nothing, so you can pickpocket him. If I am not mistaken she doesn't even have to hide in shadows to do the trick. Again then, if I'm not mistaken, you can actually get TWO Celestial Fires if you kill him after that, but I may be wrong as I already said.VonDondu wrote:I didn't know you could steal Celestial Fire from Trias. Do you mean by pickpocketing? The dialogue begins as soon as he sees you, and you can't pickpocket him when the dialogue is over because he is hostile. In any case, it never occurred to me.
You can get Celestial Fire, redeem Trias, kill Trias and get -both- the Tattoo of the Redeemer and Tattoo of the Betrayer made available to you at Fell's without pickpocketing or cheating.
SPOILER:
If it is indeed possible to get two Celestial Fire's, I'll be fixing that.
Also, regarding why Fhjull is considered an enemy, Chris Avellone wrote this a long time ago:
Qwinn
SPOILER:
Spoiler
Just have Vhailor with you when you redeem him.
If it is indeed possible to get two Celestial Fire's, I'll be fixing that.
Also, regarding why Fhjull is considered an enemy, Chris Avellone wrote this a long time ago:
http://www.salikon.dk/planescapetorment_text06.htmlFhjull = Evil, twisted by the planes. Even though he does nothing against you directly, he wants you dead - and there's hints he's done horrible stuff to you in the past. I imagine he's the hardest one to believe, but he hates the Nameless One with a passion... even if he can't quite remember the Nameless One when they first meet.
Qwinn