really hurt'in players

abobo · Post by **abobo** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:04 pm

well the people i play with are really sucking, i cant even remember the last time some one played a role. on guy for instance plays the exact same for every character. was dwarf cleric that had a 12 cha, but we went around from bar to bar buying rounds for drinks for dozens of people and making friends and picking up women ect. i dm mostly but not always and i did play a lawful evil necromancer and the party was mostly good. and i put in my opinion some times and i was completely ignored. witch is fine, cuz there is reason... im just that evil ^^. but now i play a CG barbarian and no matter what the subject all they do is ignore me. also we switch out dm constantly and it pisses me off. you really cant set a story line when people keep throughing in there 2 cents into the thing. also you cant really keep secrets that effect a p[layer becouse they eventually need to be told when they dm. it really sucks and i am thinking of finding a new group and leaving this one, but these people are good friends of mine and i know they would take it way to hard, but i dont really care about that. i just wanna know if there is anyway that i can set these people back on track so i dont need to abandon them and find a new group.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:20 am

Talk to them about it?

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:42 pm

i just wanna know if there is anyway that i can set these people back on track so i dont need to abandon them and find a new group.

Nope, not at all.

I know this because I game with the exact same type of people. Best thing you can do is reverse psychology and guilt trips, simply talking won't work. They don't want to listen and constantly interrupt you, do it to them, and do it much more often. They want to goof off and avoid the storyline, go directly to the story line by yourself, it'll either guilt trip them into coming or if you're lucky (since you're a Barbarian), you'll get all the treasure and XP to yourself. Basically, don't get mad, get even.

Lord_Chaos · Post by **Lord_Chaos** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:30 pm

you could try to talk to them but odds are they wont listen because they dont want to here what they are doing wrong and fingers will just get pointed throughout the group of who's fault it is for not sticking with the story i know this from my last group it seemed like for 3 hours of gameing we only actually played 30 minutes of it because everyone wants to talk about past games so just tell your group what you feel if they get butthurt oh well there is no point in playing with a group youre not having fun with.

Lair-Craft Lord · Post by **Lair-Craft Lord** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:02 am

Well , some of this is also down to the DM, if a Dwarf of Cha12 IS buying everyone drinks and carousing, simply state that the 'locals' are not interested - maybe he's got terrible facial scars or a personal hygene problem...

Let him waste his GP.

As for players who don't 'role play'. I always used to reward good role play with character specific items - Meaning that some treasure would ONLY be useable by the better role players.

OR simply stick to your guns with the role playing. If theya re playing their character wrong - then THAT is their role playing...

EG: If that Cha12 Dwarf goes into the bar and doesn't ACT like a Cha12 Dwarf, have the people become instantly suspicious and distrustful of his character. Perhaps they believe that he's hiding something or faking his persona. This can affect prices of goods and services, rumours, the sale of treasure (they many NOT believe its genuine) and the hiring of NPC's and other hirelings.

If that Paladin is hacking everything to pieces, go for that alignment change, a quest from his god or a serious drop in XP.

Make that lack of role playing work against them.

That said, don't foece them to say "Verily, I must ajourn to ye kitchens to partake of more pretzels and ye frothy foaming Buds..." That's taking things TOO far

.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:38 am

Lair-Craft Lord wrote:Well , some of this is also down to the DM, if a Dwarf of Cha12 IS buying everyone drinks and carousing, simply state that the 'locals' are not interested - maybe he's got terrible facial scars or a personal hygene problem...

Let him waste his GP.

As for players who don't 'role play'. I always used to reward good role play with character specific items - Meaning that some treasure would ONLY be useable by the better role players.

OR simply stick to your guns with the role playing. If theya re playing their character wrong - then THAT is their role playing...

EG: If that Cha12 Dwarf goes into the bar and doesn't ACT like a Cha12 Dwarf, have the people become instantly suspicious and distrustful of his character. Perhaps they believe that he's hiding something or faking his persona. This can affect prices of goods and services, rumours, the sale of treasure (they many NOT believe its genuine) and the hiring of NPC's and other hirelings.

If that Paladin is hacking everything to pieces, go for that alignment change, a quest from his god or a serious drop in XP.

Make that lack of role playing work against them.

That said, don't foece them to say "Verily, I must ajourn to ye kitchens to partake of more pretzels and ye frothy foaming Buds..." That's taking things TOO far .

CHA 12 isn't low. It's above average even. Why would locals object on an above average pleasant person buying them ale? Heck, I don't even object when a below average pleasant person buys me one.

Lair-Craft Lord · Post by **Lair-Craft Lord** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:44 am

Yes, you're right of course, but you know what I mean. I was just using his example.

Use their lack of role-play AS their role-play and act accordingly...

In my Charasima defence, most players I've ever come across have always considered anything less that 14 to be poor (If they don't get ++s, they don't wanna know), although I LOVE having a poor trait, it makes the character more fun to play.

All that said, I don't get to play any more. I'm out here in Spain and don't know any Brit players (My spanish being limited to ordering beers and politely declining yet more squid...)

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:55 am

Start learning more Spanish then.

Lair-Craft Lord · Post by **Lair-Craft Lord** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:02 am

Ya! D'oh!

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:17 pm

Life is short...drink ale with ugly dwarfs.

Seriously sounds pretty imperfect. Accept it for what it is or leave it. You can still be friends I guess. But I don't imagine they will change their stripes. Maybe you can have a few things change. So pick your battles wisely if you are going for that.

CTK · Post by **CTK** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:04 pm

I am very new to the game but I really am getting used to it and all and I think some people just choose not to play their roles a certain way. I'm playing post and play and some of the other characters get mad at me (the real me) because of my characters bad tendencies. But I feel like if I don't act on them, I'm not being true to her.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:36 am

CTK wrote:I am very new to the game but I really am getting used to it and all and I think some people just choose not to play their roles a certain way. I'm playing post and play and some of the other characters get mad at me (the real me) because of my characters bad tendencies. But I feel like if I don't act on them, I'm not being true to her.

Don't they know the concept of metagaming? You, as the player, can't always act on what you know, only on what your character knows...

Demortis · Post by **Demortis** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:24 am

Ah, the Meta-gaming pimp slap

My DM was known for that! If their using their knowledge vs the characters. Powder the hand and pimp slap them!!! Meaning, do something to the characters that would warrent(sp?) the setback or damage. For example, they want to run around and kill everything, drop a dead Great Wyrm Red Dragon on them

Got my attention real quick... So, just make sure that they understand that doing something out of Character has some major drawbacks

Zem · Post by **Zem** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:39 pm

Sorry, but... you change DMs through one plot line? That's the worst idea I've ever heard. I suppose if you're playing modules in a hack and slash method it could work, but it still sounds horrible. The DM needs to own the world from beginning to end. If you want to change DMs, have shorter adventures and then create new characters each time you switch.

I don't think I could tolerate gaming that way. As for the role playing, if the dwarf wants to buy drinks for people, then that's what he does. He might not be role playing as you like it, but it is role playing and it sounds like he's having a good time. I'm more worried with the "let's get out of town and find some wandering monsters for XP" types.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:54 pm

Zem wrote:Sorry, but... you change DMs through one plot line? That's the worst idea I've ever heard. I suppose if you're playing modules in a hack and slash method it could work, but it still sounds horrible. The DM needs to own the world from beginning to end. If you want to change DMs, have shorter adventures and then create new characters each time you switch.

I don't think I could tolerate gaming that way. As for the role playing, if the dwarf wants to buy drinks for people, then that's what he does. He might not be role playing as you like it, but it is role playing and it sounds like he's having a good time. I'm more worried with the "let's get out of town and find some wandering monsters for XP" types.

Actually, a DM exchange is quite fun. Though it's a matter of opinion, don't say it's horrible just because you think there's only one way to DM a game.

I've done it before and while it wasn't the best game of all time, it did keep me on my toes quite a bit. And this was for both combat and roleplaying aspects.

Zem · Post by **Zem** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:31 pm

Of course I can only give my own opinion, and my opinion is that it's horrible. I suppose it may work even keeping the same characters if you truly reach the end of a complete adventure, but it requires open characters with no one holding something back from the party.

To me a campaign is not a series of discrete adventures. Though there are adventures in it that begin and end, there is a tie between them. Sure, there will be a plethora of side quests and they will stumble onto things completely unrelated. But through most of the campaign there are major workings behind the scenes. It my campaign I am trying to keep a sense of mystery, and the players say I'm doing a good job. They don't even know who their ultimate enemy is... nor the one a step behind the people they're attacking (though they're getting close).

So my opinion is that there should be a cohesion between adventures in a campaign instead of unrelated adventures except that they involve the same characters, and that cohesion requires one person's understanding of the situation.

Even if I could enjoy unrelated adventures, I think I would find changing DMs maddening. A DM needs to be consistent, but he also needs to own the world he has created. It can't really be shared all that well.

Play it differently if you want. As I said, I think it sounds horrible. I'm about as far from an expert as you can get.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:09 pm

Who's to say that it's a series of miniadventures?

The campaign I gamed in where we switched from DM to DM had an entirely linear plotline. We weren't coming up with a new story, we were just continuing the story with their own interpretation.

I would say don't knock it till you try it, and I'm dead serious about that. No matter how awful it sounds to you or maddening or whatever, give it a try. I would respect your opinion if it had any merit but you've told us twice now that you've only ever done a single DM game, and never tried multiple DM's.

It's completely biased. It's like saying you hate chocolate when you've never had it, it's not really a fair and justified opinion; no matter how much evidence you provide to one side, it's still one sided. Juxtapose it, and get back to me.

Zem · Post by **Zem** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:51 pm

Meh. I switched it up the DM role when I was in middle school for a very short stint. That's as close as I'm getting, and that's probably why I didn't play again until I got to college. "Don't knock it until you try it" only goes but so far. I haven't tried running up to the president to give him a chocolate gun, but I'm still going to knock it.

If it works for you, great. I put in 3-4x the time working on the game as we actually spend playing. It's a lot of work to create a good setting where everyone has a good sense of the world and a good time playing. I wouldn't want to hand off my work to someone else, nor would I be interested in trying to understand what someone else has done.

The beauty of the game is that it can be played as many different ways as someone can imagine. Mixing up the DM is not for me, and I can say so clearly without trying it.

Uller · Post by **Uller** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:36 pm

I agree with both. It is hard to knock something unless you have tried it. However on that note of trying it...it doesn't sound too appealing to my style of DMing (and the group I play with).

I believe the DM should be a constant - he is the story teller and the one who has control on the events that are created in his campaign setting.
I find that if you get another person to DM the same story you get inconsistencies all over the place and no true flow to the adventure.

A good DM will have the majority of his campaign and adventure either already created on paper or already in his head. For someone to change out and swap over just (to me) kills the flow and the continuity within the campaign setting.

The only way I think you can swap out the DM for another is if the campaign setting and adventure has already been created with the only point of difference another DM can bring is the strategies in which he plays the encounters.

However like Siberys said some players enjoy the non-linear, inconsistent nature of having multiple DM's on the same adventure. Me, however I like to remain as the story teller and don't like to give any secrets away to other's about my campaign world....to me mystery and background are the key elements to keeping players coming back for more.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:14 pm

However like Siberys said some players enjoy the non-linear, inconsistent nature of having multiple DM's on the same adventure.

I never said that. Not even close.