CAVEAT: This "resource" is no where close to perfect, and it tends to over-emphasize what is actually needed. I.E. it represents more of an ideal, and in fact you'll see that in the "beginner" party example below - a fair bit of this can be "fudged".
Here is a "running list" of fixes for the game - consider using them.
http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/vi ... &forum=128
Quantity, Experience points, and Hirelings..
Up to 4 party members you create at the beginning.
You can add-on 1 of 11 different party members in-game. Only 4 in-game potential members are within the first 3rd of the game. They are:
Druid, Ranger, Wizard, Swashbuckler. (..the Wizard *can* be tough to get at and the Swashbuckler is time-sensitive-tied to the main quest.)
These party members do not level-up on their own. You have to provide the experience, and you have to select how they "build" on level-up - IF YOU WANT TO USE THEM. Some are more "chatty" than others, but they all have fairly distinct personalities (love'em or leave'em).
The more members you have, the slower you level-up.
TIP: If you want an "epic" level party then use 3 or fewer party members, OR do a **lot** of "grinding".
You can get one more in your group with your Leader having the Leadership feat (..available at level 6 and up). That means you can have up to 4 members you made yourself and 2 you have join you. IF you choose to *use* fewer than 4 that you make for yourself, THEN those additional positions are available for in-game members. You can not have more than 4 members you make yourself. You can "solo" - but it won't be easy, in fact SOZ generally isn't easy with 4 members.
TIP: Solo characters - play the game *differently*, here you want to move through the first 2/3rds of the game quickly to "unlock" the final 3rd's "spawn area" on the overland map. Note that you can still go through and do virtually all the incidental quests at ANY TIME, it just means that you'll be rushing the main story-line quest to unlock that final 3rd overland map area. That will give you access to EL opponents (EL17 from Mega Raptors), that provide HUGE experience point gains without being that much more difficult than lower experience point battles. This will also provide you with access to crafting earlier (..and the money to do it), radically improving your AC levels and your damage potential with various bonuses.
The other potential in-game party members start with levels at varying points near, or slightly lower than where your party is *expected* to be (by the developers) when you find them. (..though there is a great deal of room for variance here.) They are (in no particular order): Favored Soul, Paladin, Doomguide, Warlock, Monk, Rogue, and Bard. Again, available beyond at least a 1/3rd of the way into the game.
TIP: You can level-up these characters to your party's level for cash at the Adventurer's Guild (..available about 1/2 way into the game).
Depending on how many members are in your party - the number will have a substantial effect on your party's level by the end of the game. IF you take on the full 6 members early-on then expect to end the game anywhere from level 15-18 (in general). With 4 party members (throughout) you can probably near or exceed 20 levels.
WARNING: Racial level penalties can be a problem with this game. 1 is bad. 2 is horrible. 3 is pretty much unplayable. (..depending on how many members are in your party and IF you actually need them for combat.)
All members EXCEPT THE LEADER (or other personal made party members), can be switched-out or removed via a sign-in book available at any inn. The major requirement here is that you actually except them into your party, and THEN dismiss them (to be added-in again at a latter time). You don't even have to accumulate experience points in the interim. Just accept them into your party and head straight to an inn and dismiss them there.
TIP: *Generally* accept all in-game members IF you have the member "slot" open once you have found them, then if you don't want them just take them back to the inn and dismiss them. ALWAYS SAVE BEFORE TALKING TO OTHERS. An EXCEPTION: IF you don't want to use the Druid at the start (or almost the start of the game), then do NOT accept him into your party until just before you leave that portion of the game. Doing this will allow you *free* unlimited healing from him anytime you want just by asking - something you don't get from a lot of temple clerics. (..note: it could be that you still get this benefit AFTER you have dismissed him - don't know.) The "Doomguide" also presented problems for me utilizing this strategy of "accept and dismiss" - so again, SAVE BEFORE TALKING TO OTHERS.
As for the party Leader..
SOZ party construction.. (Tips with minor spoilers):
Your Leader..
Your Leader is the first character *you* make.
Its the ONLY party member you have to keep (..or again, other members *you* made must be kept as well, but not any in-game characters or "cohorts").
Contrary to popular opinion, your Leader does NOT have to be anything in particular.
Note: Even Team Benefits (page 22 of the manual), are effectively "variable" based on who ever is talking to the Adventurer's Guild Trainer and can even be an in-game "hireling"/cohorts. Better still - once taken the feats "stay" even with the removal of that party member from the group.
CAUTION: It is however better if your Leader is your main overland map character, AND is your "Stealth" character. (..see the Leader Warning below for details.)
Things you will probably want in a Leader:
1. "Stealth",
2. Survival skill (around 10-15 points net),
3. Search skill (as good as you can get it),
4. "Detection" (of hostiles and other overland map encounters).
..and potentially "Dialogue" skills:
5. Intimidate skill (as high as you can get it),
6. Bluff skill (as high as you can get it),
7. Wild Empathy.
(Note: all of this relates to the overland map. Additionally all of these skills are net skill numbers - i.e. what you see on the character's sheet in normal operation, NOT upon level-up.)
"Stealth" character:
A high Hide OR Move Silently skill is the most important skill set for the overland map. You only need one that is high (say 15 +), because while on the overland map the skill check is for whichever is highest. (You do NOT NEED TO BE IN "STEALTH" MODE FOR THIS TO OCCUR - in fact if you are it just slows your party down. The AI should turn it off automatically, but again - its buggy.) This skill lets you move around the overland map without constantly being attacked. If you *need* to get back to an inn to rest undisturbed then one of these skills is extremely important. If you want to effectively select which monster grouping to fight (on your own terms), then one of these skills will do it for you.
TIP: You can get a Cloak of the Elvenkind before you ever venture onto the overland map. Do one modest quest for the Merchant that sold you it and you can then purchase the Ring of Hiding. Combined that's +10 to Hide.
Survival:
Survival is good for resting on the overland map - it does not specifically relate to your Leader per se, BUT when in conjunction with (faster movement) it becomes more beneficial for your Leader to have. (..see "Getting your Rest/Sleep" below.)
A high Survival skill relates to faster movement on the overland map. While it is no more than a "nicety" early-on and late in the game, it *can* be important with guarding your trade caravans (..which occurs beyond that 1/3rd point in the game). The faster you can get to bandits - the better you can protect your caravan and profit. ALSO see the Team Benefits: TEAM RUSH (pg. 24) which requires the feat Toughness in addition to 8 points in Survival.
Search:
A high Search skill is also very important. This is the skill that will specifically find hidden places on the overland map. It will also sometimes find various items/treasure/etc. - more so than any other skill. While finding treasure is not essential, finding certain places sometimes is. Again, like Stealth you should NOT have Search on when you move onto the overland map - it provides no benefits and just slows you down.
"Detection":
A moderate (under 10) Spot OR Listen skill is NOT really needed with a hidden party. However it IS useful for determining which enemies you want to fight. The higher one of those skills is - the wider your "radar" effectively is, and the wider selection of enemies you can choose from to earn more experience points. Spot and Listen ALSO can effect the occasion treasure find on the overland map (..though Spot more often than Listen). (..see the next post for more detail on skills and treasure.)
TIP: Note however that the higher your skill level in either Spot or Listen - the more hostile "spawns" that will occur on the overland map. While this is good for picking and choosing battles to do some leveling - it is NOT good for keeping spawns to a minimum for your caravan (..past the 1/3rd point in the game). For your caravans then it can actually be advantageous to have a lower skill in both skills so that you do not have a lot of spawns that will attack your caravans. Alternativly: keep well away from the roads, and/or switch to another party member with a nearly non-existent Spot or Listen.
"Dialogue" skills:
Dialogue skill sets relate to dialogue on the overland map - what is referred to as parlaying with opponents before battles (..see the next post on this issue.)
Leader WARNING:
You can actually choose *any* party member for travel as the "lead member" while moving on the overland map. Doing so invokes only that selected member's skills, NOT other members skills. (..so if you had another member with higher skills for search, but perhaps not Hide or Move Silently - then upon selecting them as a "leader" that member's Search will have an easier time finding things, but ALSO be *much* more easily spotted by enemies - and once you are spotted, switching back to a higher stealth member doesn't keep you from being located unless you move very far away from them.) BUT -
Here is the *potential* problem or bug:
Member switching when entering the overland map. Sometimes you get the character you intended (your "stealth" character), and sometimes you don't. (..note that I've gone through whole sections of the game with predictable results.. and then all of a sudden it starts switching lead members - and continues to do so through the remainder of the game - so be forewarned.)
Sometimes it seems to randomly pick a lead member, but:
- most often it chooses the lead member that was selected just *before* going onto the overland map. (i.e. click on the portrait of your stealth character and use just them to enter the overland map.) Sometimes it reverts to your Leader. Sometimes it reverts to the last person to select a dialogue choice while on that portion of the "map" (..the choice: "continue" included).
While actually ON the overland map - this happens:
Say you engage an enemy on the overland map while as your "stealth" character (..the lead member). You then go to the dialogue "parlay" portion (..with an enemy you can actually parlay with), and choose to use a dialogue choice OTHER than one from your stealth character. Perhaps you use a higher charisma member with the skill Bluff. Then you enter the generated combat gaming portion/"map". You kill your enemies and then SELECT YOUR STEALTH CHARACTER ONLY and leave the overland map.
One of *2* party members is now the "lead" member on the overland map.
Either:
1. Your Stealth character (that entered the overland map again), OR
2. The character that used parlay Bluff to enter the fight "map".
Obviously you don't want #2 - because it exposes you to potential battles that you didn't specifically choose. In fact it usually chooses #2 - but I've also had it choose #1.
Now the reason it may choose your Leader in these situations is likely because you used its dialogue skills to parlay. In my case its because I often use the Leader for Intimidate - and that's the dialogue/parlay I use the most for the overland map.
It is *very* likely that this will occur - simply because it is extremely difficult to have a good character that is also a "stealth" character AND has all skills.
So IF your Leader is your "Intimidate" character, AND you use this parlay option a lot, then expect that this character will often become the party's lead member on the overland map.
Of course IF your Leader has the parlay dialogue that you use, AND has the other 4 attributes listed above as recommended - then *usually* you will be fine. (..there have still been occasions where leaving towns or dungeons that I've gotten another member as the "lead" member for the overland map, but its much more rare.)
Note though that it is not *necessary* for your Leader to be your "Stealth" character and have the dialogue skill of choice - you can chance a random un-intended encounter.
TIP: ALWAYS pause the game just as the loading finishes when entering the overland map. Most of the time this will allow you to select the portrait of your Stealth character for use as lead member on the overland map before most hostiles have a chance to engage you.
(Again, while not a prerequisite for your Leader..)
Team Benefits (page 22 of the manual) you will likely want:
1. Camp Routine,
2. Improved Camp Routine,
3. Group Trance.
(Note: all of this relates to resting on the overland map.)
Getting your Rest/Sleep:
The Elf or Half-Elf race, and the high Survival skills are both conditions required for certain TEAM BENEFITS that are very helpful to any party that has one or more spellcasters (..not Warlocks). On the overland map you can rest, but you have a high chance of getting attacked while doing so - Camp Routine, Improved Camp Routine, and Group trance relate to these two specifications.. and Survival does generally. Unfortunately though, the Team Benefits are not available until after at least 1/3rd of the way into the game. Sleeping can also be accomplished at Inns - at a high price. You cannot sleep in dungeons at all (..though if you use a user-made patch and a *very* expensive one-time-use Stone of Alarm, then you can). You also can't rest anywhere in a town other than the designated inn/sleeping area.
Its also advantageous that you Stealth character is also the character that you use to rest on the overland map. While your rest may be interrupted "failing" its survival skill - a high Hide or Move Silently skill set can avoid hostile encounters.
Even more on skills..
Your Leader is the first character *you* make.
Its the ONLY party member you have to keep (..or again, other members *you* made must be kept as well, but not any in-game characters or "cohorts").
Contrary to popular opinion, your Leader does NOT have to be anything in particular.
Note: Even Team Benefits (page 22 of the manual), are effectively "variable" based on who ever is talking to the Adventurer's Guild Trainer and can even be an in-game "hireling"/cohorts. Better still - once taken the feats "stay" even with the removal of that party member from the group.
CAUTION: It is however better if your Leader is your main overland map character, AND is your "Stealth" character. (..see the Leader Warning below for details.)
Things you will probably want in a Leader:
1. "Stealth",
2. Survival skill (around 10-15 points net),
3. Search skill (as good as you can get it),
4. "Detection" (of hostiles and other overland map encounters).
..and potentially "Dialogue" skills:
5. Intimidate skill (as high as you can get it),
6. Bluff skill (as high as you can get it),
7. Wild Empathy.
(Note: all of this relates to the overland map. Additionally all of these skills are net skill numbers - i.e. what you see on the character's sheet in normal operation, NOT upon level-up.)
"Stealth" character:
A high Hide OR Move Silently skill is the most important skill set for the overland map. You only need one that is high (say 15 +), because while on the overland map the skill check is for whichever is highest. (You do NOT NEED TO BE IN "STEALTH" MODE FOR THIS TO OCCUR - in fact if you are it just slows your party down. The AI should turn it off automatically, but again - its buggy.) This skill lets you move around the overland map without constantly being attacked. If you *need* to get back to an inn to rest undisturbed then one of these skills is extremely important. If you want to effectively select which monster grouping to fight (on your own terms), then one of these skills will do it for you.
TIP: You can get a Cloak of the Elvenkind before you ever venture onto the overland map. Do one modest quest for the Merchant that sold you it and you can then purchase the Ring of Hiding. Combined that's +10 to Hide.
Survival:
Survival is good for resting on the overland map - it does not specifically relate to your Leader per se, BUT when in conjunction with (faster movement) it becomes more beneficial for your Leader to have. (..see "Getting your Rest/Sleep" below.)
A high Survival skill relates to faster movement on the overland map. While it is no more than a "nicety" early-on and late in the game, it *can* be important with guarding your trade caravans (..which occurs beyond that 1/3rd point in the game). The faster you can get to bandits - the better you can protect your caravan and profit. ALSO see the Team Benefits: TEAM RUSH (pg. 24) which requires the feat Toughness in addition to 8 points in Survival.
Search:
A high Search skill is also very important. This is the skill that will specifically find hidden places on the overland map. It will also sometimes find various items/treasure/etc. - more so than any other skill. While finding treasure is not essential, finding certain places sometimes is. Again, like Stealth you should NOT have Search on when you move onto the overland map - it provides no benefits and just slows you down.
"Detection":
A moderate (under 10) Spot OR Listen skill is NOT really needed with a hidden party. However it IS useful for determining which enemies you want to fight. The higher one of those skills is - the wider your "radar" effectively is, and the wider selection of enemies you can choose from to earn more experience points. Spot and Listen ALSO can effect the occasion treasure find on the overland map (..though Spot more often than Listen). (..see the next post for more detail on skills and treasure.)
TIP: Note however that the higher your skill level in either Spot or Listen - the more hostile "spawns" that will occur on the overland map. While this is good for picking and choosing battles to do some leveling - it is NOT good for keeping spawns to a minimum for your caravan (..past the 1/3rd point in the game). For your caravans then it can actually be advantageous to have a lower skill in both skills so that you do not have a lot of spawns that will attack your caravans. Alternativly: keep well away from the roads, and/or switch to another party member with a nearly non-existent Spot or Listen.
"Dialogue" skills:
Dialogue skill sets relate to dialogue on the overland map - what is referred to as parlaying with opponents before battles (..see the next post on this issue.)
Leader WARNING:
You can actually choose *any* party member for travel as the "lead member" while moving on the overland map. Doing so invokes only that selected member's skills, NOT other members skills. (..so if you had another member with higher skills for search, but perhaps not Hide or Move Silently - then upon selecting them as a "leader" that member's Search will have an easier time finding things, but ALSO be *much* more easily spotted by enemies - and once you are spotted, switching back to a higher stealth member doesn't keep you from being located unless you move very far away from them.) BUT -
Here is the *potential* problem or bug:
Member switching when entering the overland map. Sometimes you get the character you intended (your "stealth" character), and sometimes you don't. (..note that I've gone through whole sections of the game with predictable results.. and then all of a sudden it starts switching lead members - and continues to do so through the remainder of the game - so be forewarned.)
Sometimes it seems to randomly pick a lead member, but:
- most often it chooses the lead member that was selected just *before* going onto the overland map. (i.e. click on the portrait of your stealth character and use just them to enter the overland map.) Sometimes it reverts to your Leader. Sometimes it reverts to the last person to select a dialogue choice while on that portion of the "map" (..the choice: "continue" included).
While actually ON the overland map - this happens:
Say you engage an enemy on the overland map while as your "stealth" character (..the lead member). You then go to the dialogue "parlay" portion (..with an enemy you can actually parlay with), and choose to use a dialogue choice OTHER than one from your stealth character. Perhaps you use a higher charisma member with the skill Bluff. Then you enter the generated combat gaming portion/"map". You kill your enemies and then SELECT YOUR STEALTH CHARACTER ONLY and leave the overland map.
One of *2* party members is now the "lead" member on the overland map.
Either:
1. Your Stealth character (that entered the overland map again), OR
2. The character that used parlay Bluff to enter the fight "map".
Obviously you don't want #2 - because it exposes you to potential battles that you didn't specifically choose. In fact it usually chooses #2 - but I've also had it choose #1.
Now the reason it may choose your Leader in these situations is likely because you used its dialogue skills to parlay. In my case its because I often use the Leader for Intimidate - and that's the dialogue/parlay I use the most for the overland map.
It is *very* likely that this will occur - simply because it is extremely difficult to have a good character that is also a "stealth" character AND has all skills.
So IF your Leader is your "Intimidate" character, AND you use this parlay option a lot, then expect that this character will often become the party's lead member on the overland map.
Of course IF your Leader has the parlay dialogue that you use, AND has the other 4 attributes listed above as recommended - then *usually* you will be fine. (..there have still been occasions where leaving towns or dungeons that I've gotten another member as the "lead" member for the overland map, but its much more rare.)
Note though that it is not *necessary* for your Leader to be your "Stealth" character and have the dialogue skill of choice - you can chance a random un-intended encounter.
TIP: ALWAYS pause the game just as the loading finishes when entering the overland map. Most of the time this will allow you to select the portrait of your Stealth character for use as lead member on the overland map before most hostiles have a chance to engage you.
(Again, while not a prerequisite for your Leader..)
Team Benefits (page 22 of the manual) you will likely want:
1. Camp Routine,
2. Improved Camp Routine,
3. Group Trance.
(Note: all of this relates to resting on the overland map.)
Getting your Rest/Sleep:
The Elf or Half-Elf race, and the high Survival skills are both conditions required for certain TEAM BENEFITS that are very helpful to any party that has one or more spellcasters (..not Warlocks). On the overland map you can rest, but you have a high chance of getting attacked while doing so - Camp Routine, Improved Camp Routine, and Group trance relate to these two specifications.. and Survival does generally. Unfortunately though, the Team Benefits are not available until after at least 1/3rd of the way into the game. Sleeping can also be accomplished at Inns - at a high price. You cannot sleep in dungeons at all (..though if you use a user-made patch and a *very* expensive one-time-use Stone of Alarm, then you can). You also can't rest anywhere in a town other than the designated inn/sleeping area.
Its also advantageous that you Stealth character is also the character that you use to rest on the overland map. While your rest may be interrupted "failing" its survival skill - a high Hide or Move Silently skill set can avoid hostile encounters.
Even more on skills..
Character skills: Generally, Dialogue, and the Overland Map..
Overland Map part deux..
Most of the overland map skills were commented on in the preceding post, BUT many of the other skills also have relevance on the overland map when dealing with finding treasure based on a particular skill and its level. Besides Search, you can find treasure from these skills:
Craft Alchemy, Craft Armor, Craft Trap, Craft Weapon, Heal, Disable Device, Lore, Set Trap, Spellcraft, and Tumble. From this list - LORE is the second most important skill (..second only to Search). Disable Device and Tumble are "runners-up" - they find a lot of "ancient traps" that you can sell for a nice sum (..they can also find other things as well, but a LOT less often). You might also find treasure from these skills as well (but I don't remember): Appraisal, Listen, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Use Magic Device. (..I don't know about Perform, haven't had it to use.)
Again, NONE of these skills need to be all on one character. Once you've come across an area on the overland map where your lead member has found treasure, THEN you can toggle on other members in your party with these other skills to see if you'll find treasure based on those different skills. The only "tricky" part is waiting for enemies to be far enough away so that these other party members aren't "spotted" when they are switched to lead member position for your different treasure searching. Of course IF you don't have any interest in this treasure (..which is NOT essential to the game), then don't worry about any of it. It is however IMO a fun aspect to the game and it might provide you with items you would not otherwise be able to purchase.
Dialogue:
Dialogue takes place normally AND on the overland map (..once you encounter others and they or you have initiated contact - usually to fight).
ALL party members have their own representation in *all* dialogue. A mini-portrait of each member appears just above the dialogue choices in the dialogue sheet. Clicking on a portrait shows the choices for that particular member. IF a member has a "thought bubble" appear on their portrait THEN they have one or more additional dialogue choices that their skills provide. Most of the time there is no clear choice of which dialogue response is the "best". Among all party members you only get ONE RESPONSE (while the skills provide you with more options for that one response). Once you have made a choice - there is (mostly) no "going-back".
TIP: ALWAYS SAVE BEFORE STARTING DIALOGUE *IF* POSSIBLE. (..unless its just a normal merchant purchase you'll be making.)
The *major* skills for normal dialogue are: Appraise, Bluff, Heal, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Lore, Spellcraft, and occasionally Spot.. (..actually Heal doesn't come up as *dialogue* per se, rather its a fairly rare dialogue based choice to heal the respondent. Spot is something similar.) I *think* I've had a few other choices occasionally "pop-up" with other skills like Craft Alchemy. Perhaps surprisingly - Diplomacy isn't all that important in the first 1/3rd of the game. Intimidate seems to provide more additional dialogue (over-all) than any other skill.
Dialogue on the Overland Map..
Here dialogue is mechanically exactly the same (as normal dialogue). Dialogue is initiated through contact (either by you or your opponent), and up "pops" a dialogue sheet with each of your party member's mini-portraits at the top. Depending on which party member you select on the dialogue sheet - you'll likely get different dialogue choices. The DIFFERENCE here is what those dialogue choices represent. Unlike normal dialogue, overland map dialogue is *almost* exclusively about fighting.
Your choices on the overland map *usually* are:
Fight.
Intimidate: which has a chance of causing a few or more enemies to stop their normal "head-long" rush to kill you once you start into the fight. (i.e. they "hold back" and that way you don't have to take on a full mob all at once.)
Bluff: Lowers enemy AC.
Diplomacy: Bribe them not to fight you (..costly wuss-way to escape).
Wild Empathy: Druids and Rangers only - makes animals run away.
Evade: Based on that selected member's higher Hide or Move Silently skill - it closes the dialogue sheet and gives you a few seconds "head start" to run-away before they run you down again and give you NO DIALOGUE CHOICES. IMO (like Diplomacy), also a worthless choice.
In these situations then only Bluff and Intimidate have significant worth (..Diplomacy if you are really beat-up already and can't stand another attack - something that should NOT be a problem if you were using a "stealth" character to move around the overland map).
TIP: IF the size of the enemy party is expected to be large (numerous), then Intimidate is usually the best choice. Also, if you have spell casters that routinely use area-effect disabling spells - then Intimidate is usually the best choice. (..dido for a party with primarily ranged attackers.) IF however you only expect a few (tougher) opponents then Bluff is usually the better choice. IF POSSIBLE *always* use one or the other skill before a fight.
It *may* not always be possible to get a dialogue check in your encounters on the overland map (other than "Fight") - after-all, *many* enemies don't speak! HOWEVER,
IF you have either a Ranger or Druid (one or more levels of either), then you get the Wild Empathy skill - only useful if you want to avoid a fight.
WARNING: IF you have augmentations like Bardic Inspirations (I think), spells, and Warlock invocations that add to your skills that you are counting on for dialogue - THEY ARE WORTHLESS ON THE OVERLAND MAP!
TIP: If you find a blue circled "encounter" (friend or foe - you don't know), then IF possible track-down a nearby enemy you'd consider fighting. Engage that enemy in combat, and after you have finished with them - SAVE ON THAT "FIGHT-MAP". ONLY THEN should you exit the "fight-map" and go and initiate dialogue with the blue circle encounter. (..and this of course is under the heading: SAVE BEFORE TALKING TO OTHERS.)
Skills Genererally..
In general you should have as a "native" skill set in ***ALL*** the skills distributed among your party members and constantly increased as you level-up. Look to your party member's skill sets and increase those skills for those party members. As a result - plan a party where there isn't much overlap of skills among party members. If you plan on multi-classing then take that into account and also consider the feat Able Learner if necessary.
Skills that do NOT need to be really high (and can have modifiers to achieve their numbers):
Appraise - near 15. (..there are some +3 gloves of Appraisal for purchase near the beginning of the game.)
Craft Armor - 15. (..there is a belt that gives +3 to all the Crafting skills near the beginning of the game.)
Craft Trap - 14.
Craft Weapon - 15 (I think).
Don't know about Craft Alchemy..
Concentration - only needed for spell casters in combat.
As for Spot and Listen - I've only come across a few opponents with concealment.. but you never know.. A few Assassin-types (after 1/3rd of the way into the game), had Stealth so high that I couldn't spot them with even high Spot and Listen - so far though they seem to be rare.
Sleight of Hand and Perform are "wild cards". I haven't used a bard with Perform, so I don't no how it reacts in-game (other than its normal use). Sleight of Hand has been pretty rare and I haven't found anything "pivotal" so far - so its nice, but by no means necessary (I *think*).
Additionally your party should have one member that has at least one level of Rogue (with Able Learner), OR is something close to a "purist" Rogue and has all of these skills *maxed* at level-up:
Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, & Search. Additionally, Hide and Move Silently *need* to be augmented with this character, not only with Dexterity bonuses, but also with items that give bonuses. There are a great many opponents with excellent hearing and vision that can find your "stealth" character with even good skill numbers (..invisible characters too).
Practically speaking however - you *CAN* "get away with-OUT" having your own personal-made Rogue-type for the first 1/3rd of the game, and can then quickly gain the Rogue that's available in-game (after that point). IF you go this route then you should have the spell "Knock" available, AND a party member with high Search capabilities. It isn't something I recommend, but it shouldn't be too difficult.
What about Crafting?
Overland Map part deux..
Most of the overland map skills were commented on in the preceding post, BUT many of the other skills also have relevance on the overland map when dealing with finding treasure based on a particular skill and its level. Besides Search, you can find treasure from these skills:
Craft Alchemy, Craft Armor, Craft Trap, Craft Weapon, Heal, Disable Device, Lore, Set Trap, Spellcraft, and Tumble. From this list - LORE is the second most important skill (..second only to Search). Disable Device and Tumble are "runners-up" - they find a lot of "ancient traps" that you can sell for a nice sum (..they can also find other things as well, but a LOT less often). You might also find treasure from these skills as well (but I don't remember): Appraisal, Listen, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Use Magic Device. (..I don't know about Perform, haven't had it to use.)
Again, NONE of these skills need to be all on one character. Once you've come across an area on the overland map where your lead member has found treasure, THEN you can toggle on other members in your party with these other skills to see if you'll find treasure based on those different skills. The only "tricky" part is waiting for enemies to be far enough away so that these other party members aren't "spotted" when they are switched to lead member position for your different treasure searching. Of course IF you don't have any interest in this treasure (..which is NOT essential to the game), then don't worry about any of it. It is however IMO a fun aspect to the game and it might provide you with items you would not otherwise be able to purchase.
Dialogue:
Dialogue takes place normally AND on the overland map (..once you encounter others and they or you have initiated contact - usually to fight).
ALL party members have their own representation in *all* dialogue. A mini-portrait of each member appears just above the dialogue choices in the dialogue sheet. Clicking on a portrait shows the choices for that particular member. IF a member has a "thought bubble" appear on their portrait THEN they have one or more additional dialogue choices that their skills provide. Most of the time there is no clear choice of which dialogue response is the "best". Among all party members you only get ONE RESPONSE (while the skills provide you with more options for that one response). Once you have made a choice - there is (mostly) no "going-back".
TIP: ALWAYS SAVE BEFORE STARTING DIALOGUE *IF* POSSIBLE. (..unless its just a normal merchant purchase you'll be making.)
The *major* skills for normal dialogue are: Appraise, Bluff, Heal, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Lore, Spellcraft, and occasionally Spot.. (..actually Heal doesn't come up as *dialogue* per se, rather its a fairly rare dialogue based choice to heal the respondent. Spot is something similar.) I *think* I've had a few other choices occasionally "pop-up" with other skills like Craft Alchemy. Perhaps surprisingly - Diplomacy isn't all that important in the first 1/3rd of the game. Intimidate seems to provide more additional dialogue (over-all) than any other skill.
Dialogue on the Overland Map..
Here dialogue is mechanically exactly the same (as normal dialogue). Dialogue is initiated through contact (either by you or your opponent), and up "pops" a dialogue sheet with each of your party member's mini-portraits at the top. Depending on which party member you select on the dialogue sheet - you'll likely get different dialogue choices. The DIFFERENCE here is what those dialogue choices represent. Unlike normal dialogue, overland map dialogue is *almost* exclusively about fighting.
Your choices on the overland map *usually* are:
Fight.
Intimidate: which has a chance of causing a few or more enemies to stop their normal "head-long" rush to kill you once you start into the fight. (i.e. they "hold back" and that way you don't have to take on a full mob all at once.)
Bluff: Lowers enemy AC.
Diplomacy: Bribe them not to fight you (..costly wuss-way to escape).
Wild Empathy: Druids and Rangers only - makes animals run away.
Evade: Based on that selected member's higher Hide or Move Silently skill - it closes the dialogue sheet and gives you a few seconds "head start" to run-away before they run you down again and give you NO DIALOGUE CHOICES. IMO (like Diplomacy), also a worthless choice.
In these situations then only Bluff and Intimidate have significant worth (..Diplomacy if you are really beat-up already and can't stand another attack - something that should NOT be a problem if you were using a "stealth" character to move around the overland map).
TIP: IF the size of the enemy party is expected to be large (numerous), then Intimidate is usually the best choice. Also, if you have spell casters that routinely use area-effect disabling spells - then Intimidate is usually the best choice. (..dido for a party with primarily ranged attackers.) IF however you only expect a few (tougher) opponents then Bluff is usually the better choice. IF POSSIBLE *always* use one or the other skill before a fight.
It *may* not always be possible to get a dialogue check in your encounters on the overland map (other than "Fight") - after-all, *many* enemies don't speak! HOWEVER,
IF you have either a Ranger or Druid (one or more levels of either), then you get the Wild Empathy skill - only useful if you want to avoid a fight.
WARNING: IF you have augmentations like Bardic Inspirations (I think), spells, and Warlock invocations that add to your skills that you are counting on for dialogue - THEY ARE WORTHLESS ON THE OVERLAND MAP!
TIP: If you find a blue circled "encounter" (friend or foe - you don't know), then IF possible track-down a nearby enemy you'd consider fighting. Engage that enemy in combat, and after you have finished with them - SAVE ON THAT "FIGHT-MAP". ONLY THEN should you exit the "fight-map" and go and initiate dialogue with the blue circle encounter. (..and this of course is under the heading: SAVE BEFORE TALKING TO OTHERS.)
Skills Genererally..
In general you should have as a "native" skill set in ***ALL*** the skills distributed among your party members and constantly increased as you level-up. Look to your party member's skill sets and increase those skills for those party members. As a result - plan a party where there isn't much overlap of skills among party members. If you plan on multi-classing then take that into account and also consider the feat Able Learner if necessary.
Skills that do NOT need to be really high (and can have modifiers to achieve their numbers):
Appraise - near 15. (..there are some +3 gloves of Appraisal for purchase near the beginning of the game.)
Craft Armor - 15. (..there is a belt that gives +3 to all the Crafting skills near the beginning of the game.)
Craft Trap - 14.
Craft Weapon - 15 (I think).
Don't know about Craft Alchemy..
Concentration - only needed for spell casters in combat.
As for Spot and Listen - I've only come across a few opponents with concealment.. but you never know.. A few Assassin-types (after 1/3rd of the way into the game), had Stealth so high that I couldn't spot them with even high Spot and Listen - so far though they seem to be rare.
Sleight of Hand and Perform are "wild cards". I haven't used a bard with Perform, so I don't no how it reacts in-game (other than its normal use). Sleight of Hand has been pretty rare and I haven't found anything "pivotal" so far - so its nice, but by no means necessary (I *think*).
Additionally your party should have one member that has at least one level of Rogue (with Able Learner), OR is something close to a "purist" Rogue and has all of these skills *maxed* at level-up:
Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, & Search. Additionally, Hide and Move Silently *need* to be augmented with this character, not only with Dexterity bonuses, but also with items that give bonuses. There are a great many opponents with excellent hearing and vision that can find your "stealth" character with even good skill numbers (..invisible characters too).
Practically speaking however - you *CAN* "get away with-OUT" having your own personal-made Rogue-type for the first 1/3rd of the game, and can then quickly gain the Rogue that's available in-game (after that point). IF you go this route then you should have the spell "Knock" available, AND a party member with high Search capabilities. It isn't something I recommend, but it shouldn't be too difficult.
What about Crafting?
Crafting..
Along with skills - crafting can be a **BIG** part of this game. In part this is due to the fact that a few enchanting possibilities have been opened up that were not available before:
1. Arrows and thrown weapons can be enchanted.
2. Gloves for monks can be enchanted.
3. Certain Inventory items can be enchanted.
However the most significant reason is that there aren't that many quality enchanted items in-game. Even +1 weapons *with* additional damage modifiers are overall quite rare.
This means that IF you want to increase enchantment bonuses - you'll need to have a party member with the feat: Craft Magic Arms and Armor. (..this no longer requires spells or ingredients.)
If you want (any one of numerous) magical items - you'll need to have a party member with the feat: Craft Wondrous Item.
WARNING: Craft Wondrous Item: you will also need the required spell for that item's recipe ACTUALLY MEMORIZED IN A *SPELL* SLOT. The Warlock's "Imbue Item" feat no longer works for this. Use Magic Device (and a spell scroll or wand), no longer works for this. Racial spells no longer work for this. Class spells no longer work for this. (..this is all because they screwed with the crafting system yet again.) See the "running list" of fixes LINK at the first post.
..and one last item:
YOU MUST HAVE THE RECIPE FOR THAT SPECIFIC ITEM. (which are often purchased at various merchants throughout the game, but are sometimes found in a few chests in various "dungeons".) In fact to actually *do* the crafting is initiated by left clicking on the recipe while its in your inventory crafting book - no recipe, no item.
ON THE "PLUS" SIDE:
When "pulling" the Crafting skill, feat, spell, etc.. - IT IS DERIVED FROM **ALL** YOUR PARTY MEMBERS. The only caveat here is that *specifically* your Leader must have in his inventory any items required for crafting (..just move them from another party member's inventory into your Leaders once you want to craft).
Note: the cap is 3 modifications on an item (..though for some items in-game, some of the modifiers don't seem to count). Moreover you can't improve a weapon's elemental damage beyond 1d6 for any single modifier, so with an enhancement bonus you are looking at only 2d6 of elemental damage. Alternatively:
TIP: Look to "Bane" damage modifiers. Weapons can be purchased from several sources - so don't miss-out on having multiple weapons enchanted for any single character. With "Bane" damage you get 2d6 of damage. Perhaps the best damage modifier in-game is "Holy Weapon" that provides 2d6 to Evil. Another source for some of the overland map spawns would the the "beast bane" variety - giving you 2d6 against beasts. In fact I don't recall ANY overland map opponents that have any damage reduction beyond a Troll (or Fell Troll's) coup de gra of acid or flame damage; what this means is that a good enchanted weapon for your overland map fights would likely NOT include an enhancement bonus (..unless you were seeking high criticals), instead look to pure damage for your 3 modifications for overland map encounters - one of which would be Beast Bane 2d6 with perhaps 1d6 of acid and perhaps another Bane modifier against chaotic opponents.
All of this creates some serious build-planning limitations:
1. Just to have the opportunity for either feat (Craft Wondrous Item or Craft Magical Arms and Armor), you will need at least one party member with some sort of spell casting ability - for at least one level. I.E. Bard, Cleric, Druid, Favored Soul, Paladin, Ranger, Spirit Shaman, Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard.
2. To cast the spells for Wondrous Items you will need a party member capable of casting the required *memorized* spell. (..again, Warlocks don't count for this unless you use the fix in the first post's link.)
3. The item in question will likely require some minimum *spell* caster level to actually cast the spells. (..I don't know if Warlock + Imbue Item counts for this or not, but I think it does. I also don't know if the spell-caster level is tied to the specific character with the pertinent feat, but I don't think so.)
4. I don't think that *any* of the spell casters in-game (hirelings) have either feat (..at the time you accept them in your party). You can of course level them up and select it for them at a "feat level".
Note that I think the basic spell, casting level, etc. requirements are similar to the OC. This is important for planning spells for Wonderous Items.
http://www.thieves-guild.net/index.php?pid=242
TIP: IF YOU DON"T PLAN ON "leveling-up" the in-game Wizard (or the Warlock with the patch), then you will probably want to make sure your own characters meet the various requirements. Remember - Clerics have some additional access to wizard spells via various Domains.
Final thoughts..
Along with skills - crafting can be a **BIG** part of this game. In part this is due to the fact that a few enchanting possibilities have been opened up that were not available before:
1. Arrows and thrown weapons can be enchanted.
2. Gloves for monks can be enchanted.
3. Certain Inventory items can be enchanted.
However the most significant reason is that there aren't that many quality enchanted items in-game. Even +1 weapons *with* additional damage modifiers are overall quite rare.
This means that IF you want to increase enchantment bonuses - you'll need to have a party member with the feat: Craft Magic Arms and Armor. (..this no longer requires spells or ingredients.)
If you want (any one of numerous) magical items - you'll need to have a party member with the feat: Craft Wondrous Item.
WARNING: Craft Wondrous Item: you will also need the required spell for that item's recipe ACTUALLY MEMORIZED IN A *SPELL* SLOT. The Warlock's "Imbue Item" feat no longer works for this. Use Magic Device (and a spell scroll or wand), no longer works for this. Racial spells no longer work for this. Class spells no longer work for this. (..this is all because they screwed with the crafting system yet again.) See the "running list" of fixes LINK at the first post.
..and one last item:
YOU MUST HAVE THE RECIPE FOR THAT SPECIFIC ITEM. (which are often purchased at various merchants throughout the game, but are sometimes found in a few chests in various "dungeons".) In fact to actually *do* the crafting is initiated by left clicking on the recipe while its in your inventory crafting book - no recipe, no item.
ON THE "PLUS" SIDE:
When "pulling" the Crafting skill, feat, spell, etc.. - IT IS DERIVED FROM **ALL** YOUR PARTY MEMBERS. The only caveat here is that *specifically* your Leader must have in his inventory any items required for crafting (..just move them from another party member's inventory into your Leaders once you want to craft).
Note: the cap is 3 modifications on an item (..though for some items in-game, some of the modifiers don't seem to count). Moreover you can't improve a weapon's elemental damage beyond 1d6 for any single modifier, so with an enhancement bonus you are looking at only 2d6 of elemental damage. Alternatively:
TIP: Look to "Bane" damage modifiers. Weapons can be purchased from several sources - so don't miss-out on having multiple weapons enchanted for any single character. With "Bane" damage you get 2d6 of damage. Perhaps the best damage modifier in-game is "Holy Weapon" that provides 2d6 to Evil. Another source for some of the overland map spawns would the the "beast bane" variety - giving you 2d6 against beasts. In fact I don't recall ANY overland map opponents that have any damage reduction beyond a Troll (or Fell Troll's) coup de gra of acid or flame damage; what this means is that a good enchanted weapon for your overland map fights would likely NOT include an enhancement bonus (..unless you were seeking high criticals), instead look to pure damage for your 3 modifications for overland map encounters - one of which would be Beast Bane 2d6 with perhaps 1d6 of acid and perhaps another Bane modifier against chaotic opponents.
All of this creates some serious build-planning limitations:
1. Just to have the opportunity for either feat (Craft Wondrous Item or Craft Magical Arms and Armor), you will need at least one party member with some sort of spell casting ability - for at least one level. I.E. Bard, Cleric, Druid, Favored Soul, Paladin, Ranger, Spirit Shaman, Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard.
2. To cast the spells for Wondrous Items you will need a party member capable of casting the required *memorized* spell. (..again, Warlocks don't count for this unless you use the fix in the first post's link.)
3. The item in question will likely require some minimum *spell* caster level to actually cast the spells. (..I don't know if Warlock + Imbue Item counts for this or not, but I think it does. I also don't know if the spell-caster level is tied to the specific character with the pertinent feat, but I don't think so.)
4. I don't think that *any* of the spell casters in-game (hirelings) have either feat (..at the time you accept them in your party). You can of course level them up and select it for them at a "feat level".
Note that I think the basic spell, casting level, etc. requirements are similar to the OC. This is important for planning spells for Wonderous Items.
http://www.thieves-guild.net/index.php?pid=242
TIP: IF YOU DON"T PLAN ON "leveling-up" the in-game Wizard (or the Warlock with the patch), then you will probably want to make sure your own characters meet the various requirements. Remember - Clerics have some additional access to wizard spells via various Domains.
Final thoughts..
POSTSCRIPT:
General thoughts on specific party member and party planning..
Because skills are so important in this game - Rogues, good Intelligence characters, and the race Human, have serious advantages.
IMO this means having at least 2 characters with at least one level of Rogue and the feat Able Learner. (..if its a near purist-type rogue then possibly forget about the feat.) It also means that these characters should have additional classes with good skill point distribution at level-up (i.e. 4 or more points).
IF you aren't going to hire-on (and significantly use) the in-game Rogue, then you really should build that: Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search - character. That's *5* skill points you'll need for that character at each level-up, and that's only if you don't want them to have other skills as well.
TIP: Alternatively you could add-on one level of Rogue to the in-game Ranger or Bard.. OR to a lesser extent the Druid or Monk.
The other "one-level-rogue" character could distribute points in many of the other skills as needed.
WARNING: most classes do NOT have access to Survival - including the Rogue. Only Barbarians, Druids, Frenzied Berserkers, Harper Agents, Rangers, Spirit Shaman, & Stormlords. Other "non-native" classes won't be able to get up to *8* until character level 11. That should be OK as far as most Team Benefits are concerned, but NOT "Improved Camp Routine". If your build wants to sleep anywhere other than an inn - you will almost certainly want your *Leader* to have at least one level in one of these classes.
..........................................
You probably also need to have at least one *spell* casting class for crafting arms, armor and wondrous items. Like-wise it should probably be either a wizard or sorcerer type with the correct spells. Unlike the "one-level-rogue" exception for skills, this character will likely need to continue in a spell casting class. The wizard is the best class for this because you can scribe scrolls into your spell book; by contrast Sorcerers (and worse Bards) are very limited on spell selection.
TIP: Wizards are Intelligence driven classes - they may have only 2 skill points at level-up, BUT they effectively have more because of their intelligence bonus. In other words, this is probably a good class to add one level of rogue, BUT *not* for your disable device/open lock character because you'll have other skills like concentrate and spellcraft that will be more important.
..........................................
While it isn't necessary (or even recommended) - you could "synthesize" all of the above into your Leader.
EX. Sun Elf (starting Intelligence 20, Dexterity 18); Rogue 3, Ranger 1, Wizard 5, Arcane Trickster 10; Toughness, and the 2 crafting feats.
(Sun Elf for Intelligence, no level penalty, wizard favored class, race needed for Team Benefit: Group Trance; Rogue needed fro 2d6 of sneak attack for AA class, and for extra skill points and starter skills, Ranger for Wild Empathy for animals and the overland map and for a "native" skill in Survival.)
There are 2 problems here:
1. It isn't particularly good at one thing - "Wizardry", largely because of few spell casting feats and 4 levels wasted on other classes.
2. It still doesn't have enough skill points to be your disable trap and open lock character, AND your dialogue character, AND your survival character. (..that would be 10 skill points - including concentrate and spellcraft, but not including either Listen or Spot (..or Diplomacy which isn't needed for this character). You could come *very* close though.)
IF you make this character your Dialogue (Bluff and Intimidate), and Survival character (only) - with adjunctive sneak attack capability with a bow (for attacks of opportunity).. THEN it makes more sense. (..again, the Bluff and Intimidate skills are there on a Ranger class for access to dialogue checks against animals on the overland map. You would still need another character that had Diplomacy for all other occasions.)
................................................
As far as a basic party build when used for fighting:
Figure on:
1. A High AC "meat shield" OR 2 summons - FOR EACH FIGHT. Note that if summoning exclusively it places a HUGE limitation on how many fights you can enter before resting. ALSO the high AC character should be able to achieve that WITHOUT SPELLS. Moreover you will need this throughout the campaign - at low and high character levels. In other words at least one of your characters should be a high AC character. Note that you don't really have access to such a character in-game early. Basically this means a character that uses full-plate, a tower shield, + additional AC extras, and likely the feats Combat Insight and Improved Combat Insight. Damage Reduction would be a bonus here. This character should also have moderate to excellent Heal skill levels. (Heal doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.) Note: As Claudius has made me realize - this character is really all about drawing attention to itself and surviving attacks. It *could* just as easily be a high dexterity character with mirror image (provided you have a decent AC and a team capable of getting its rest to "refill" those spells) - it is a "riskier" solution however (..at least for the first 1/3rd of the game).
2. One other character with a very high Heal skill level.
3. Casters and/or Ranged Attackers in the "rear".
4. At least one Caster capable of casting offensive spells (wizard, sorcerer, or warlock).
Note of course that you could have multiple High AC types and only one caster.
So how about something easier?
General thoughts on specific party member and party planning..
Because skills are so important in this game - Rogues, good Intelligence characters, and the race Human, have serious advantages.
IMO this means having at least 2 characters with at least one level of Rogue and the feat Able Learner. (..if its a near purist-type rogue then possibly forget about the feat.) It also means that these characters should have additional classes with good skill point distribution at level-up (i.e. 4 or more points).
IF you aren't going to hire-on (and significantly use) the in-game Rogue, then you really should build that: Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search - character. That's *5* skill points you'll need for that character at each level-up, and that's only if you don't want them to have other skills as well.
TIP: Alternatively you could add-on one level of Rogue to the in-game Ranger or Bard.. OR to a lesser extent the Druid or Monk.
The other "one-level-rogue" character could distribute points in many of the other skills as needed.
WARNING: most classes do NOT have access to Survival - including the Rogue. Only Barbarians, Druids, Frenzied Berserkers, Harper Agents, Rangers, Spirit Shaman, & Stormlords. Other "non-native" classes won't be able to get up to *8* until character level 11. That should be OK as far as most Team Benefits are concerned, but NOT "Improved Camp Routine". If your build wants to sleep anywhere other than an inn - you will almost certainly want your *Leader* to have at least one level in one of these classes.
..........................................
You probably also need to have at least one *spell* casting class for crafting arms, armor and wondrous items. Like-wise it should probably be either a wizard or sorcerer type with the correct spells. Unlike the "one-level-rogue" exception for skills, this character will likely need to continue in a spell casting class. The wizard is the best class for this because you can scribe scrolls into your spell book; by contrast Sorcerers (and worse Bards) are very limited on spell selection.
TIP: Wizards are Intelligence driven classes - they may have only 2 skill points at level-up, BUT they effectively have more because of their intelligence bonus. In other words, this is probably a good class to add one level of rogue, BUT *not* for your disable device/open lock character because you'll have other skills like concentrate and spellcraft that will be more important.
..........................................
While it isn't necessary (or even recommended) - you could "synthesize" all of the above into your Leader.
EX. Sun Elf (starting Intelligence 20, Dexterity 18); Rogue 3, Ranger 1, Wizard 5, Arcane Trickster 10; Toughness, and the 2 crafting feats.
(Sun Elf for Intelligence, no level penalty, wizard favored class, race needed for Team Benefit: Group Trance; Rogue needed fro 2d6 of sneak attack for AA class, and for extra skill points and starter skills, Ranger for Wild Empathy for animals and the overland map and for a "native" skill in Survival.)
There are 2 problems here:
1. It isn't particularly good at one thing - "Wizardry", largely because of few spell casting feats and 4 levels wasted on other classes.
2. It still doesn't have enough skill points to be your disable trap and open lock character, AND your dialogue character, AND your survival character. (..that would be 10 skill points - including concentrate and spellcraft, but not including either Listen or Spot (..or Diplomacy which isn't needed for this character). You could come *very* close though.)
IF you make this character your Dialogue (Bluff and Intimidate), and Survival character (only) - with adjunctive sneak attack capability with a bow (for attacks of opportunity).. THEN it makes more sense. (..again, the Bluff and Intimidate skills are there on a Ranger class for access to dialogue checks against animals on the overland map. You would still need another character that had Diplomacy for all other occasions.)
................................................
As far as a basic party build when used for fighting:
Figure on:
1. A High AC "meat shield" OR 2 summons - FOR EACH FIGHT. Note that if summoning exclusively it places a HUGE limitation on how many fights you can enter before resting. ALSO the high AC character should be able to achieve that WITHOUT SPELLS. Moreover you will need this throughout the campaign - at low and high character levels. In other words at least one of your characters should be a high AC character. Note that you don't really have access to such a character in-game early. Basically this means a character that uses full-plate, a tower shield, + additional AC extras, and likely the feats Combat Insight and Improved Combat Insight. Damage Reduction would be a bonus here. This character should also have moderate to excellent Heal skill levels. (Heal doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.) Note: As Claudius has made me realize - this character is really all about drawing attention to itself and surviving attacks. It *could* just as easily be a high dexterity character with mirror image (provided you have a decent AC and a team capable of getting its rest to "refill" those spells) - it is a "riskier" solution however (..at least for the first 1/3rd of the game).
2. One other character with a very high Heal skill level.
3. Casters and/or Ranged Attackers in the "rear".
4. At least one Caster capable of casting offensive spells (wizard, sorcerer, or warlock).
Note of course that you could have multiple High AC types and only one caster.
So how about something easier?
"Beginner" Party Build..
The purpose of this build is to give people an option for an easier time of playing SOZ. I've designed this "ease" with 2 things in mind.
1. Remove the need to rest. Not altogether, but practically speaking this party should be able to go into as many fights as you want - provided you have enough healing kits for healing member wounds or diseases.
2. Provide the option for a fast-leveling party.
As you can probably tell - #1 changes a fair bit of the dynamic of the build. Removing the need to rest removes those "Camp Routine" and "Group Trance" Team Benefits from consideration. It also means that the skill Survival is no longer as important (8 for your leader, 1 for your other members - MAX). You can also drop the need for an Elf or Half-Elf leader.
Of course *if* you can get into and out of fights repeatedly without resting - then you are also more likely to gain experience points, throughout the build-life of the party. The faster you level, the better your party will be. Additionally, the faster you level - the better the potential for epic levels.
Caveat: to do this (with this build), AND still have full-access to *all* Wondrous Items will require obtaining the in-game Wizard and using her for access to a few spells. You probably won't need to do *any* leveling for her however. (..so its just an accept into party and then dismiss at a nearby inn; accept into your party again when you want to craft a few items.) Alternatively use the override fix listed in the first post's link.
Optional extras:
Some additional things I wanted were:
1. VERY Fast-travel for your stealth/overland map character.
2. Always-on Auras.
3. At higher levels "buffing" and protective spells for difficult situations (something that isn't needed at lower levels).
This is all in addition to *most* of what I've written in the preceding 5 posts.
I *could* have crafted a build that met everything posted, BUT there were some things for this build that I did not want to give up - so yes, there are compromises - specifically there are compromises to skills, and who the Leader is. They are *not* huge compromises, nor are they game-impairing compromises.
See the notes at the end of each build for my reasoning.
Also note that you could use these characters as a party, or perhaps in another type of party build of your own making. IMO they each "stand on their own" merit.
This build is specifically intended to utilize *just* these 4 character for almost everything but some crafting assistance. You should be able to get to Character level 12 *easily* before the first 1/3rd of the game is concluded.
Note: I've tested this build and it works well, and with the exception of a few battles is actually pretty easy IF you use it correctly. With a bit of "grinding" nearing the end of each 1/3rd of the game, the party level was 20 going into the final battle - you could however "push" it a little bit more to get to level 21 and "open up" Eldritch Master for your Warlocks for that final battle. I would however make a few changes to the party build:
1. Make the "Stealth" character the Leader of the group (..a.k.a. the member you create first).
2. Swap the "Leader" build for a Vordans Hero Creator created Anti-Paladin with one level of Fighter then 3 levels of Paladin, flop the alignment to Neutral or Lawful Evil and continue with Fighter for 2 levels (..and the rest pretty much the same); starting attributes 14/14/12/8/14 (..or something like that - and again with Strength continuing on level-up). It gives immunity to Fear and Disease plus it actually makes use of good saves with *2* Charisma modifiers (..obviously going for a Nymph Cloak +6 when available). I've also tested with *this* character and for those few occasions where you have these qualities - its more than worth it.
..And now for the "Syndicate":
The purpose of this build is to give people an option for an easier time of playing SOZ. I've designed this "ease" with 2 things in mind.
1. Remove the need to rest. Not altogether, but practically speaking this party should be able to go into as many fights as you want - provided you have enough healing kits for healing member wounds or diseases.
2. Provide the option for a fast-leveling party.
As you can probably tell - #1 changes a fair bit of the dynamic of the build. Removing the need to rest removes those "Camp Routine" and "Group Trance" Team Benefits from consideration. It also means that the skill Survival is no longer as important (8 for your leader, 1 for your other members - MAX). You can also drop the need for an Elf or Half-Elf leader.
Of course *if* you can get into and out of fights repeatedly without resting - then you are also more likely to gain experience points, throughout the build-life of the party. The faster you level, the better your party will be. Additionally, the faster you level - the better the potential for epic levels.
Caveat: to do this (with this build), AND still have full-access to *all* Wondrous Items will require obtaining the in-game Wizard and using her for access to a few spells. You probably won't need to do *any* leveling for her however. (..so its just an accept into party and then dismiss at a nearby inn; accept into your party again when you want to craft a few items.) Alternatively use the override fix listed in the first post's link.
Optional extras:
Some additional things I wanted were:
1. VERY Fast-travel for your stealth/overland map character.
2. Always-on Auras.
3. At higher levels "buffing" and protective spells for difficult situations (something that isn't needed at lower levels).
This is all in addition to *most* of what I've written in the preceding 5 posts.
I *could* have crafted a build that met everything posted, BUT there were some things for this build that I did not want to give up - so yes, there are compromises - specifically there are compromises to skills, and who the Leader is. They are *not* huge compromises, nor are they game-impairing compromises.
See the notes at the end of each build for my reasoning.
Also note that you could use these characters as a party, or perhaps in another type of party build of your own making. IMO they each "stand on their own" merit.
This build is specifically intended to utilize *just* these 4 character for almost everything but some crafting assistance. You should be able to get to Character level 12 *easily* before the first 1/3rd of the game is concluded.
Note: I've tested this build and it works well, and with the exception of a few battles is actually pretty easy IF you use it correctly. With a bit of "grinding" nearing the end of each 1/3rd of the game, the party level was 20 going into the final battle - you could however "push" it a little bit more to get to level 21 and "open up" Eldritch Master for your Warlocks for that final battle. I would however make a few changes to the party build:
1. Make the "Stealth" character the Leader of the group (..a.k.a. the member you create first).
2. Swap the "Leader" build for a Vordans Hero Creator created Anti-Paladin with one level of Fighter then 3 levels of Paladin, flop the alignment to Neutral or Lawful Evil and continue with Fighter for 2 levels (..and the rest pretty much the same); starting attributes 14/14/12/8/14 (..or something like that - and again with Strength continuing on level-up). It gives immunity to Fear and Disease plus it actually makes use of good saves with *2* Charisma modifiers (..obviously going for a Nymph Cloak +6 when available). I've also tested with *this* character and for those few occasions where you have these qualities - its more than worth it.
..And now for the "Syndicate":
The Leader. (..see potential alterations in post above.)
Human 16/12/15/16/8/8 Neutral Evil. Deity: Auril.
1. Fighter; Skills: Appraise 2, Craft Armor 4, Craft Weapon 4, Heal 2, Intimidate 4, 4 carry-over.
Feats: Veteran (background), Luck of Heroes, Able Learner, Power Attack.
2. Ranger; Skills: Diplomacy 2, Heal 3, Hide 5, Intimidate 1, Survival 3.
Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoids.
3. Fighter; Skills: Appraise 1, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 3, Spot 3.
Feats: Cleave, Toughness.
4. Fighter; Skills: Intimidate 1, Spot 1, Survival 4.
Attribute: Strength 1.
5. Fighter; Skills: Appraise 1, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1, Spot 2, Survival 1.
Feat: Great Cleave
6. Fighter; Skills: Heal 1, Intimidate 1, Spot 3, Survival 1.
Feat: Combat Expertise.
7. NW9; Skills: Appraise 1, Diplomacy 6, Intimidate 1.
8. NW9; Skills: Craft Trap 4, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1.
Attribute: Strength 1.
9. NW9; Skills: Appraise 1, Craft Trap 2, Diplomacy 1, Heal 1, Intimidate 1, Spot 2.
Feat: Improved Combat Expertise.
10. Fighter: Skills: Craft Armor 2, Craft Weapon 2, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1.
Feat: Blindfight.
11. NW9; Skills: Appraise 1, Craft Armor 2, Craft Trap 1, Craft Weapon 2, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1.
12. NW9; Skills: Craft Armor 2, Craft Trap 2, Craft Weapon 2, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1.
Attribute: Constitution; Feat: Steadfast Determination.
13. Blackguard; Skills: Appraise 1, Heal 3, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1.
14. Blackguard; Skills: Craft Trap 3, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1, Spot 1.
15. Blackguard; Skills: Appraise 1, Diplomacy 1, Spot 1.
Feat: Improved Critical: Scimitar/Rapier/Kukri (your choice).
16. Blackguard; Skills: Diplomacy 1, Heal 4, Intimidate 1.
Attribute: Strength.
17. Blackguard; Skills: Appraise 1, Diplomacy 1, Heal 3, Intimidate 1.
18. Blackguard; Skills: Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1. Spot 4.
Feat: Weapon Focus: Scimitar/Rapier/Kukri (based on your choice at level 15).
19. Blackguard; Skills: Diplomacy 1, Heal 3, Intimidate 1, Spot 1.
20. Blackguard; Skills: Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1, Spot 4.
Attribute: Strength.
Notes:
Continue with Blackguard at 21 & 22, then switch back to Fighter for remaining levels (if any). Use the same basic build premise for skills point allocation. Select additional feats as desired.
This character has 5 specific functions:
1. High AC "meatshield", and
2. High Intimidate (with animals as well), and Diplomacy checks, and
3. Moderate crafting skills (..use a crafting belt to augment them), and
4. Your best healing kit healer at high levels, and
5. An "aura" character with + benefits to your party members early-on, and more importantly at higher levels curse-like characteristics to your enemies.
So why is this character the Leader and not the stealth character? Feat expenditures - specifically Toughness (for Team Benefit: Team Rush). This character has lots of feats, the stealth character does not. Additionally, this party really isn't worried about being attacked at any time - so an occasional overland map switch to this character isn't going to cause you any difficulty (..unless perhaps you don't purchase enough healing kits).
Why no stealth or tumble? Not enough skill points and simply because this is an armored character (..which presents massive penalties to these skills).
**In fact this character should have Full-plate armor right near the beginning AND use a tower shield..**
Yes, the BAB goes to hell, BUT attacks are not the point of this character. This doesn't mean the character doesn't hit - in fact in SOZ this character manages to hit most opponents fairly often (principally because most have such low AC levels). Moreover, as soon as you get Combat Expertise - use it (..and the same goes for the Improved version). Additionally the Combat Expertise feats are selected at a time where you still will have some ability to hit opponents with them on.
You also get a bonus of +2 to AC from attacks of opportunity.
(Note: with some modest AC enhancements I had this character to an AC in the lower 30's by level 9, 40 around level 14.)
At latter levels IF you want to make a *serious* attack then you have the NW9's "Furious Attack", AND you can temporarily switch-off Improved Combat Expertise. You could also un-equip your standard weapon and shield and use a Scythe (to get the most out of your "Furious Attack").
Why not use Ranger as your first level to get the extra skill points? Because it requires a minimum 11 in Wisdom - and that kills other attributes and isn't worth the additional skill points.
Speaking of skill points: Note that this character handles most of your dialogue, BUT does NOT have Bluff and IS the only character with the ability to communicate with animals.
The additional Fighter level at 10th level is there for the additional feat, and comes AFTER getting the NWN9's core feat - Frantic Reactions.
As far as Teamwork benefits are concerned you can acquire these with this Leader:
Fearsome Roster, Fearsome Roster Improved, Superior Flank (at high levels), and most importantly: Team Rush. (..the "Fearsome" grouping can scare away some potential caravan threats.)
The Sneak Attack Damage works well with the Cleave(s) and attacks of opportunity.
Your "Fiendish Servant" is nice for disease(ing) a *very* tough opponent.
Oddly the Dark Blessing Save modifier is not utilized for this character, here you are better off with a cloak that gives +5 to savings throws (..rather than something like a +6 Nymph cloak).
..and finally - you have a 10% movement speed increase that does help to move quickly enough to intercept enemies from hitting your "soft" characters.
Now the Alignment and choice of deity was specifically chosen for several reasons:
1. I wanted all party members to have the same deity. I'm not sure if that will actually make a difference in-game or not. I think it has some consequence with at least one "buff" spell (recitation).
2. I wanted all party members to have similar alignments. Again, don't know if this makes a difference or not.
3. The Blackguard class needs an evil alignment.
4. The stealth character needs an evil alignment for an in-game item.
5. Auril is the only neutral evil alignment deity that a Ranger can choose.
TIP: IF you don't want Wild Empathy (from the Ranger) which *can* make the game easier, then my preference is an alteration for this character by starting-off the build with a Barbarian - which has Survival, extra skill points (for that first level), no detriment to attributes (for that first level), and then progressing on with the class Fighter for 5 levels. Same "basic" skill point structure and identical feats (though chosen at different levels). Alternatively (for a different build structure), you could drop the Barbarian class (and Ranger class of course), and add-in any one of several different melee prestige classes - up to you. In fact - I think I'll do that for my own "jaunt" through (part deux).
..and now the Stealth Character:
Human 16/12/15/16/8/8 Neutral Evil. Deity: Auril.
1. Fighter; Skills: Appraise 2, Craft Armor 4, Craft Weapon 4, Heal 2, Intimidate 4, 4 carry-over.
Feats: Veteran (background), Luck of Heroes, Able Learner, Power Attack.
2. Ranger; Skills: Diplomacy 2, Heal 3, Hide 5, Intimidate 1, Survival 3.
Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoids.
3. Fighter; Skills: Appraise 1, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 3, Spot 3.
Feats: Cleave, Toughness.
4. Fighter; Skills: Intimidate 1, Spot 1, Survival 4.
Attribute: Strength 1.
5. Fighter; Skills: Appraise 1, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1, Spot 2, Survival 1.
Feat: Great Cleave
6. Fighter; Skills: Heal 1, Intimidate 1, Spot 3, Survival 1.
Feat: Combat Expertise.
7. NW9; Skills: Appraise 1, Diplomacy 6, Intimidate 1.
8. NW9; Skills: Craft Trap 4, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1.
Attribute: Strength 1.
9. NW9; Skills: Appraise 1, Craft Trap 2, Diplomacy 1, Heal 1, Intimidate 1, Spot 2.
Feat: Improved Combat Expertise.
10. Fighter: Skills: Craft Armor 2, Craft Weapon 2, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1.
Feat: Blindfight.
11. NW9; Skills: Appraise 1, Craft Armor 2, Craft Trap 1, Craft Weapon 2, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1.
12. NW9; Skills: Craft Armor 2, Craft Trap 2, Craft Weapon 2, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1.
Attribute: Constitution; Feat: Steadfast Determination.
13. Blackguard; Skills: Appraise 1, Heal 3, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1.
14. Blackguard; Skills: Craft Trap 3, Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1, Spot 1.
15. Blackguard; Skills: Appraise 1, Diplomacy 1, Spot 1.
Feat: Improved Critical: Scimitar/Rapier/Kukri (your choice).
16. Blackguard; Skills: Diplomacy 1, Heal 4, Intimidate 1.
Attribute: Strength.
17. Blackguard; Skills: Appraise 1, Diplomacy 1, Heal 3, Intimidate 1.
18. Blackguard; Skills: Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1. Spot 4.
Feat: Weapon Focus: Scimitar/Rapier/Kukri (based on your choice at level 15).
19. Blackguard; Skills: Diplomacy 1, Heal 3, Intimidate 1, Spot 1.
20. Blackguard; Skills: Diplomacy 1, Intimidate 1, Spot 4.
Attribute: Strength.
Notes:
Continue with Blackguard at 21 & 22, then switch back to Fighter for remaining levels (if any). Use the same basic build premise for skills point allocation. Select additional feats as desired.
This character has 5 specific functions:
1. High AC "meatshield", and
2. High Intimidate (with animals as well), and Diplomacy checks, and
3. Moderate crafting skills (..use a crafting belt to augment them), and
4. Your best healing kit healer at high levels, and
5. An "aura" character with + benefits to your party members early-on, and more importantly at higher levels curse-like characteristics to your enemies.
So why is this character the Leader and not the stealth character? Feat expenditures - specifically Toughness (for Team Benefit: Team Rush). This character has lots of feats, the stealth character does not. Additionally, this party really isn't worried about being attacked at any time - so an occasional overland map switch to this character isn't going to cause you any difficulty (..unless perhaps you don't purchase enough healing kits).
Why no stealth or tumble? Not enough skill points and simply because this is an armored character (..which presents massive penalties to these skills).
**In fact this character should have Full-plate armor right near the beginning AND use a tower shield..**
Yes, the BAB goes to hell, BUT attacks are not the point of this character. This doesn't mean the character doesn't hit - in fact in SOZ this character manages to hit most opponents fairly often (principally because most have such low AC levels). Moreover, as soon as you get Combat Expertise - use it (..and the same goes for the Improved version). Additionally the Combat Expertise feats are selected at a time where you still will have some ability to hit opponents with them on.
You also get a bonus of +2 to AC from attacks of opportunity.
(Note: with some modest AC enhancements I had this character to an AC in the lower 30's by level 9, 40 around level 14.)
At latter levels IF you want to make a *serious* attack then you have the NW9's "Furious Attack", AND you can temporarily switch-off Improved Combat Expertise. You could also un-equip your standard weapon and shield and use a Scythe (to get the most out of your "Furious Attack").
Why not use Ranger as your first level to get the extra skill points? Because it requires a minimum 11 in Wisdom - and that kills other attributes and isn't worth the additional skill points.
Speaking of skill points: Note that this character handles most of your dialogue, BUT does NOT have Bluff and IS the only character with the ability to communicate with animals.
The additional Fighter level at 10th level is there for the additional feat, and comes AFTER getting the NWN9's core feat - Frantic Reactions.
As far as Teamwork benefits are concerned you can acquire these with this Leader:
Fearsome Roster, Fearsome Roster Improved, Superior Flank (at high levels), and most importantly: Team Rush. (..the "Fearsome" grouping can scare away some potential caravan threats.)
The Sneak Attack Damage works well with the Cleave(s) and attacks of opportunity.
Your "Fiendish Servant" is nice for disease(ing) a *very* tough opponent.
Oddly the Dark Blessing Save modifier is not utilized for this character, here you are better off with a cloak that gives +5 to savings throws (..rather than something like a +6 Nymph cloak).
..and finally - you have a 10% movement speed increase that does help to move quickly enough to intercept enemies from hitting your "soft" characters.
Now the Alignment and choice of deity was specifically chosen for several reasons:
1. I wanted all party members to have the same deity. I'm not sure if that will actually make a difference in-game or not. I think it has some consequence with at least one "buff" spell (recitation).
2. I wanted all party members to have similar alignments. Again, don't know if this makes a difference or not.
3. The Blackguard class needs an evil alignment.
4. The stealth character needs an evil alignment for an in-game item.
5. Auril is the only neutral evil alignment deity that a Ranger can choose.
TIP: IF you don't want Wild Empathy (from the Ranger) which *can* make the game easier, then my preference is an alteration for this character by starting-off the build with a Barbarian - which has Survival, extra skill points (for that first level), no detriment to attributes (for that first level), and then progressing on with the class Fighter for 5 levels. Same "basic" skill point structure and identical feats (though chosen at different levels). Alternatively (for a different build structure), you could drop the Barbarian class (and Ranger class of course), and add-in any one of several different melee prestige classes - up to you. In fact - I think I'll do that for my own "jaunt" through (part deux).
..and now the Stealth Character:
The Guide. (..see potential alteration in two posts above.)
Human 15/14/14/14/14/8 Lawful Evil. Deity: Auril.
1. Rogue; Skills: Disable Device 4, Hide 4, Lore 4, Move Silently 4, Open Lock 4, Search 4, Set Trap 4, Sleight of Hand 3, Spot 4, Tumble 4, 5 carryover.
Feats: Veteran (background), Able Learner, Power Attack.
2. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Lore 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Set Trap 1, Sleight of Hand 2, Spot 1, Tumble 1, 1 carry-over.
3. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Lore 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Set Trap 1, Tumble 1.
Feat: Cleave.
4. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Lore 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Tumble 1.
Attribute: Strength.
5. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Lore 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Tumble 1.
6. Cleric; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1.
Feat: Combat Casting. Domains: Darkness, Plant.
7. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Tumble 2.
8. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Survival 1, Tumble 1.
Attribute: Dexterity.
9. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Spot 1, Tumble 1.
Feat: Great Cleave.
10. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Spot 1, Tumble 1.
11. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Spot 1, Tumble 1.
12. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Spot 1, Tumble 1.
Attribute: Dexterity. Feat: Circle Kick.
13. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Intimidate 3, Heal 2, Open Lock 1.
14. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Heal 5, Open Lock 1.
15. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Heal 3, Open Lock 1, Set Trap 2.
Feat: Craft Wand.
16. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Open Lock 1, Set Trap 5.
Attribute: Wisdom.
17. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Open Lock 1, Tumble 5.
18. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Open Lock 1, Set Trap 5.
Feat: Improved Critical Unarmed Strike.
19. Cleric; Skills: Disable Device 1, Open Lock 1, Set Trap 1, Spot 2.
20. Cleric; Skills: Disable Device 1, Open Lock 1, Search 2, Set Trap 1.
Attribute: Wisdom.
Notes:
You can continue on with Cleric levels and/or Monk levels - up to you. Same for the feats. You'll will almost certainly have a Wisdom necklace on this character by now - so spells/levels shouldn't be a problem. As for skills; at some point you can "tapper-off" on the Set Trap, (the highest traps are 46 with "roll"), and go back to Spot (..and perhaps throw-in some Listen as well). Always keep increasing Disable Device and Open Lock.
STEALTH: With modifier equipment (Ring of Hiding, Cloak of the Elvenkind, Boots of the Elvenkind), AND the skill levels you have achieved, AND with your Dexterity bonus - you shouldn't come across an opponent that will spot you. IF however you start to see that happen then you can ease-up on Open Lock for a few Hide skill points. (..there are of course lock-picks to add bonuses to your open lock skill.) Also note that some monsters have incorrect spot and listen skill levels - there will be a few like these that will spot this character no matter what.
TIPS: Get all 3 stealth equipment pieces as quickly as you can. Make sure this is the character "highlighted" when ever entering the overland map.
This Character has 8 specific functions:
1. It is your stealth and search character for the overland map.
2. It is an *extremely* fast character for the overland map (..despite the near absence of Survival), and as a means to "piggy-back" speed to the rest of your party via Team Rush. Additionally its speed is there to flank opponents once it's at higher levels (8+).
3. This is your Rogue-type character capable of picking any lock and disabling any trap - all while hidden.
4. At lower levels it can set minor traps, and on the overland map it will pick-up treasure from this skill. At much higher levels it can set Deadly Traps (again, all while hidden).
5. It can buff itself (and your team), especially with Barkskin (which is a natural armor bonus). Notably this spell is also available for crafting natural armor bonus equipment (if you want, but see #6).
6. At high levels (15+), and once you have lots of cash on-hand from your trade activities - you can set most of your buffing spells into wands for you and others to use. Note that while expensive - each wand will have ***50*** charges: enough to buff all the team at important battles (if you wanted), and never really need to sleep.
7. As soon as you have worked out decent AC levels for this character (usually starting at about 8+), then this character can (on occasion) - be an excellent addition to the melee mayhem. While your "meatshield" has attaracted the attention of everyone, THIS character can quickly zoom past the group, flanking the enemies and then providing a vicious smack-down. (..actually it doesn't get really vicious until you get good gloves and then enchant them.)
8. This character can wear a specific set of *interesting* gloves obtainable somewhere past the 1/3rd marker in-game. It can of course be enchanted for even MORE "interesting" results.
Obviously the one level of Rogue and the feat Able Learner "power" the whole build. And with the exception of a few Cleric levels, the other class levels have +4 skill points (which represents most of the build). The net skill distribution isn't great, but it isn't bad either.
The real *cost* to all of this is that the character is pretty useless with combat until level 8+. Even at level 8, its attacks are moderate at best - but still good enough for most opponents. It really doesn't become a *viable* melee "powerhouse" until you get those gloves. So near the beginning of the game you'll likely just have it standing in the back watching, and learning. (..you actually *can* use it early in level, the problem however is that its AC is low enough that it quickly becomes damaged.)
Once you get good gloves and can get its AC up to at least 30 - its BRUTAL, and will easily out-pace your "meatshield" in kills. (..it becomes the "Guide" to ordered destruction.)
Another "cost" to this build is with the skill: Concentration. Realistically though, this isn't a character that goes around casting spells while in combat. Not for "buffing" (which is either done ahead of time or not at all). Not for healing (..which is better accomplished with healing kits). Certainly not for attacks. You can of course use combat casting if you just "have-to". Note that spells cast from wands don't suffer from spell interruption.
The 1st Cleric level is necessary at level 6 (or earlier) to open-up the feat Combat Casting, which is necessary for the Sacred Fist class.
The Domains were chosen for these reasons:
1. Darkness: *needed* Blindfight and didn't have a feat to spend it on.
2. Plant: *needed* some additional AC modification - Barkskin provides that. Wanted the additional speed on the overland map without p!ssing away skill points. Got both.
The Sacred Fist not only provides nice bonuses, and spell continuation, but its also a High BAB class. If you need to really "pour-on-the-pain" then you can cast Divine Power (to make sure most of your attacks hit), and then switch-on your Sacred Flames damage modifier. Several other buffing spells can also add additional damage and bonuses to your attack. You'll hardly ever need it- but its there if you want it.
Finally - you'll also have Improved Knockdown at your disposal (as early as level 8), and don't forget that you also have an additional 1d6 of Sneak Attack damage. Stunning Fist is also at your disposal.
Basically its a good utility character that becomes an extremely formidable melee character at higher levels.
NOTE: after thorough testing - this character is SO good that it has the potential for a "mostly" solo run in the game while modifying the skills to incorporate dialogue checks. Only Disable Traps needs to be constantly chosen on each level-up. Because a solo run would provide you with much faster leveling - your skills (despite the inclusion of several additional skills), would still be fairly high. You would of course need to utilize (and level) either the in-game Warlock (with the user-made "imbue item" patch), or the in-game Wizard for your crafting. By about 60% into the game (with crafting and certain items), I had this:
40 AC (..approaching 41 at Sacred Flames level 10).
20 Strength (with +4 Strength modifier belt).
As much elemental damage as any weapon can handle (crafted into gloves - usually an enhancement + "Fists of Bane" + Holy Weapon).
At higher levels and fully "buffed" this character can personally kill ANYTHING in the game AND take-on multiple opponents at the same time. Most builds cannot make such a claim.
Because of the Crafting situation in-game (..and the lack of additional characters for Haste), I'd opt for a domain with the spell Haste instead of the Plant domain. (preferably Time over Travel.) Blind Fight (via Darkness domain) however is a *must*. Basically you can *Heal* your character with healing kits effectively enough early in the game to for-go higher AC levels. (..see the TIP in the first post for solo info..)
Alternative:
The only other interesting and viable alternative here would have been a Rogue/Ranger (interleaved) with a bow making attacks of opportunity. Also an excellent character - and not only good at *all* levels, but also better with skill points. Still, it wouldn't have the higher level Cleric Spells, most importantly - it wouldn't have the *SPEED* that this thing has (..and once you've gotten it - its tough to give it up).
Finally, the *real* power behind the build..
Human 15/14/14/14/14/8 Lawful Evil. Deity: Auril.
1. Rogue; Skills: Disable Device 4, Hide 4, Lore 4, Move Silently 4, Open Lock 4, Search 4, Set Trap 4, Sleight of Hand 3, Spot 4, Tumble 4, 5 carryover.
Feats: Veteran (background), Able Learner, Power Attack.
2. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Lore 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Set Trap 1, Sleight of Hand 2, Spot 1, Tumble 1, 1 carry-over.
3. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Lore 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Set Trap 1, Tumble 1.
Feat: Cleave.
4. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Lore 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Tumble 1.
Attribute: Strength.
5. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Lore 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Tumble 1.
6. Cleric; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1.
Feat: Combat Casting. Domains: Darkness, Plant.
7. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Tumble 2.
8. Monk; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Survival 1, Tumble 1.
Attribute: Dexterity.
9. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Spot 1, Tumble 1.
Feat: Great Cleave.
10. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Spot 1, Tumble 1.
11. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Spot 1, Tumble 1.
12. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Spot 1, Tumble 1.
Attribute: Dexterity. Feat: Circle Kick.
13. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Intimidate 3, Heal 2, Open Lock 1.
14. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Heal 5, Open Lock 1.
15. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Heal 3, Open Lock 1, Set Trap 2.
Feat: Craft Wand.
16. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Open Lock 1, Set Trap 5.
Attribute: Wisdom.
17. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Open Lock 1, Tumble 5.
18. Sacred Fist; Skills: Disable Device 1, Open Lock 1, Set Trap 5.
Feat: Improved Critical Unarmed Strike.
19. Cleric; Skills: Disable Device 1, Open Lock 1, Set Trap 1, Spot 2.
20. Cleric; Skills: Disable Device 1, Open Lock 1, Search 2, Set Trap 1.
Attribute: Wisdom.
Notes:
You can continue on with Cleric levels and/or Monk levels - up to you. Same for the feats. You'll will almost certainly have a Wisdom necklace on this character by now - so spells/levels shouldn't be a problem. As for skills; at some point you can "tapper-off" on the Set Trap, (the highest traps are 46 with "roll"), and go back to Spot (..and perhaps throw-in some Listen as well). Always keep increasing Disable Device and Open Lock.
STEALTH: With modifier equipment (Ring of Hiding, Cloak of the Elvenkind, Boots of the Elvenkind), AND the skill levels you have achieved, AND with your Dexterity bonus - you shouldn't come across an opponent that will spot you. IF however you start to see that happen then you can ease-up on Open Lock for a few Hide skill points. (..there are of course lock-picks to add bonuses to your open lock skill.) Also note that some monsters have incorrect spot and listen skill levels - there will be a few like these that will spot this character no matter what.
TIPS: Get all 3 stealth equipment pieces as quickly as you can. Make sure this is the character "highlighted" when ever entering the overland map.
This Character has 8 specific functions:
1. It is your stealth and search character for the overland map.
2. It is an *extremely* fast character for the overland map (..despite the near absence of Survival), and as a means to "piggy-back" speed to the rest of your party via Team Rush. Additionally its speed is there to flank opponents once it's at higher levels (8+).
3. This is your Rogue-type character capable of picking any lock and disabling any trap - all while hidden.
4. At lower levels it can set minor traps, and on the overland map it will pick-up treasure from this skill. At much higher levels it can set Deadly Traps (again, all while hidden).
5. It can buff itself (and your team), especially with Barkskin (which is a natural armor bonus). Notably this spell is also available for crafting natural armor bonus equipment (if you want, but see #6).
6. At high levels (15+), and once you have lots of cash on-hand from your trade activities - you can set most of your buffing spells into wands for you and others to use. Note that while expensive - each wand will have ***50*** charges: enough to buff all the team at important battles (if you wanted), and never really need to sleep.
7. As soon as you have worked out decent AC levels for this character (usually starting at about 8+), then this character can (on occasion) - be an excellent addition to the melee mayhem. While your "meatshield" has attaracted the attention of everyone, THIS character can quickly zoom past the group, flanking the enemies and then providing a vicious smack-down. (..actually it doesn't get really vicious until you get good gloves and then enchant them.)
8. This character can wear a specific set of *interesting* gloves obtainable somewhere past the 1/3rd marker in-game. It can of course be enchanted for even MORE "interesting" results.
Obviously the one level of Rogue and the feat Able Learner "power" the whole build. And with the exception of a few Cleric levels, the other class levels have +4 skill points (which represents most of the build). The net skill distribution isn't great, but it isn't bad either.
The real *cost* to all of this is that the character is pretty useless with combat until level 8+. Even at level 8, its attacks are moderate at best - but still good enough for most opponents. It really doesn't become a *viable* melee "powerhouse" until you get those gloves. So near the beginning of the game you'll likely just have it standing in the back watching, and learning. (..you actually *can* use it early in level, the problem however is that its AC is low enough that it quickly becomes damaged.)
Once you get good gloves and can get its AC up to at least 30 - its BRUTAL, and will easily out-pace your "meatshield" in kills. (..it becomes the "Guide" to ordered destruction.)
Another "cost" to this build is with the skill: Concentration. Realistically though, this isn't a character that goes around casting spells while in combat. Not for "buffing" (which is either done ahead of time or not at all). Not for healing (..which is better accomplished with healing kits). Certainly not for attacks. You can of course use combat casting if you just "have-to". Note that spells cast from wands don't suffer from spell interruption.
The 1st Cleric level is necessary at level 6 (or earlier) to open-up the feat Combat Casting, which is necessary for the Sacred Fist class.
The Domains were chosen for these reasons:
1. Darkness: *needed* Blindfight and didn't have a feat to spend it on.
2. Plant: *needed* some additional AC modification - Barkskin provides that. Wanted the additional speed on the overland map without p!ssing away skill points. Got both.
The Sacred Fist not only provides nice bonuses, and spell continuation, but its also a High BAB class. If you need to really "pour-on-the-pain" then you can cast Divine Power (to make sure most of your attacks hit), and then switch-on your Sacred Flames damage modifier. Several other buffing spells can also add additional damage and bonuses to your attack. You'll hardly ever need it- but its there if you want it.
Finally - you'll also have Improved Knockdown at your disposal (as early as level 8), and don't forget that you also have an additional 1d6 of Sneak Attack damage. Stunning Fist is also at your disposal.
Basically its a good utility character that becomes an extremely formidable melee character at higher levels.
NOTE: after thorough testing - this character is SO good that it has the potential for a "mostly" solo run in the game while modifying the skills to incorporate dialogue checks. Only Disable Traps needs to be constantly chosen on each level-up. Because a solo run would provide you with much faster leveling - your skills (despite the inclusion of several additional skills), would still be fairly high. You would of course need to utilize (and level) either the in-game Warlock (with the user-made "imbue item" patch), or the in-game Wizard for your crafting. By about 60% into the game (with crafting and certain items), I had this:
40 AC (..approaching 41 at Sacred Flames level 10).
20 Strength (with +4 Strength modifier belt).
As much elemental damage as any weapon can handle (crafted into gloves - usually an enhancement + "Fists of Bane" + Holy Weapon).
At higher levels and fully "buffed" this character can personally kill ANYTHING in the game AND take-on multiple opponents at the same time. Most builds cannot make such a claim.
Because of the Crafting situation in-game (..and the lack of additional characters for Haste), I'd opt for a domain with the spell Haste instead of the Plant domain. (preferably Time over Travel.) Blind Fight (via Darkness domain) however is a *must*. Basically you can *Heal* your character with healing kits effectively enough early in the game to for-go higher AC levels. (..see the TIP in the first post for solo info..)
Alternative:
The only other interesting and viable alternative here would have been a Rogue/Ranger (interleaved) with a bow making attacks of opportunity. Also an excellent character - and not only good at *all* levels, but also better with skill points. Still, it wouldn't have the higher level Cleric Spells, most importantly - it wouldn't have the *SPEED* that this thing has (..and once you've gotten it - its tough to give it up).
Finally, the *real* power behind the build..
The Agents of Destruction.
*2* characters; differences between the two shown with [brackets].
Halfling (Strongheart) 6/18/14/16/8/14 Neutral Evil. Deity: Auril.
1. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 4], Concentration 4, Intimidate 4, Lore 4, Spellcraft 4.
Feats: Veteran (background), Fey Heritage, Spell Penetration. Invocation: Draining Blast.
2. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1]. Concentration 1, Intimidate 1, Lore 1, Spellcraft 1.
Invocation: Entropic Shield.
3. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1]. Concentration 1, Intimidate 1, Lore 1, Spellcraft 1.
Feat: Weapon Focus Ranged Touch Attack.
4. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Heal 2, Lore 1.
Attribute: Dexterity. Invocation: See the Unseen.
5. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Heal 2, Lore 1.
6. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Heal 2, Lore 1.
Feat: Greater Spell Penetration. Invocation: Eldritch Chain.
7. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Heal 2, Lore 1.
8. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Heal 2, Lore 1.
Attribute: Dexterity. Invocation: Brimstone Blast.
9. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Lore 1, Use Magic Device 2.
Feat: Blindfight.
10. Hellfire Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1, Use Magic Device 4.
Invocation: The Dead Walk.
11. Hellfire Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1, Use Magic Device 4.
Invocation: Chilling Tentacles.
12. Hellfire Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1, Survival 1, Use Magic Device 3.
Attribute: Dexterity. Feat: Improved Critical Ranged Touch Attack.
Trade-out Invocation: Brimstone Blast for: [Flee the Scene vs. Curse of Despair].
13. Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1, Use Magic Device 4.
Resist Fire, Resist Cold. Invocation: [Vitriolic Blast vs. Noxious Blast].
14. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 4], Concentration 1.
15. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 2], Concentration 1, Spellcraft 2.
Feat: [Craft Magical Arms and Armor vs. Craft Wondrous Item]. Invocation: [Noxious Blast vs. Vitriolic Blast].
16. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 1], Concentration 1, Spellcraft 3.
Attribute: Dexterity. Invocation: Eldritch Doom.
17. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 1], Concentration 1, Spellcraft 3.
18. Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1,Spellcraft 4.
Feat: Fey Skin. Invocation: Blinding Blast.
19. Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1, Spellcraft 4.
20. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 3], Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1.
Attribute: Dexterity. Invocation: Dark Foresight.
21. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 1], Concentration 1, Lore 1, Spellcraft 1, Use Magic Device 1.
Feat: Eldritch Master.
Notes:
Continue on with the Warlock class. If you get to level 23 then choose the feat: Epic Fiendish Resilience.
If you have never played the Warlock class you'll likely be disappointed - at first. After getting Eldritch Chain however, you'll start to see the power in the class.
Typical reaction:
First you invoke your Entropic Shield - and as you stare into the cool pink/purple hue you just feel good about the class.
Then you start firing off your 2d6 Eldritch blast with the Eldritch Essence Draining Blast. In a single round it isn't much damage.. Sometimes enough to out-right kill weaker opponents (..*if* you "roll" well). IF its a weaker opponent AND it isn't killed - then its very likely you will slow it (..with the Draining Blast essence portion). Meanwhile your "meatshield" is probably "popping" the enemy like over-ripe acne - right and left with additional attacks per round and extra attacks from Cleave. Its about at this point that you start wondering why you chose Warlocks at all.
Then you start to rationalize the class: "Dude here has recommended it.. can't be all bad." "Hey, it does increase to 3d6 next level - THAT should provide some serious improvement.." "Well, at least I'm getting to fire this thing off as often as I can.." ..Still, it *does* seem lackluster.
At 5th level you get the 3d6 and sure enough - kills happen more often, but not a lot more often (..because some of the opponents are getting stronger).
Then you start thinking to yourself - "Hmm, doesn't a 5th level Wizard have access to Fireball at this point? Could be tossing a Nuke like that and here I am shooting wuss rays.." ..and THIS IS THE POINT WHERE MANY GIVE UP. ***MISTAKE***.
*IF* you keep with it, at 6th level you'll get that Eldritch Chain. That with the Draining Blast Essence and you usually start hitting 2 targets with 3d6, and THAT you notice. Even if it doesn't kill either, it probably has slowed both. This allows your meatshield plenty of time to mop-up with one target and progress to the next, particularly because these targets are likely to have less than half their hit-points due to the Eldrtich Blast's 3d6 roll of damage.
Then you hit them again, and again - and you start thinking "Hmm, maybe this class does have merit.." You might also notice that these Warlocks aren't receiving any damage. Still - a well placed Fireball *can* do more damage and possibly end the battle right there.
Then you get 4d6 of damage the next level, and its starting to *look* like a good class.. BUT - its the same-ole same-ole. Shoot cool looking rays, rinse-and-repeat. Not nearly as interesting as a Wizard or Sorcerer. Net response - "*looks* good, plays decently, still feels lackluster."
Then you get Brimstone Blast (required for the Hellfire Warlock) - does a bit more damage, looks different, but you loose the "slow" effect of Draining Blast. Works great with Trolls though. SOME PEOPLE GIVE UP HERE. ***MISTAKE***.
At 10th level your Eldritch Chain goes "jumps" to ***3*** opponents (with 5d6 of damage each).
Also at 10th level you also add the invocation: The Dead Walk. (..again, for both characters.) So you invoke them - and hey, its the same Skeletal Warrior as the spell Animate Undead (a 4th level spell for Wizards). Furthermore you notice that they can actually take a bit of a beating before they are killed. Then you notice that it also seems they can *occasionally* do at least a little bit of damage (..well, to weaker mobs of opponents). You might even find out that - oh yeah, they are immune to mind effects.. and realize - criticals too! ..And if you do a little research you'll find that they have 5/Bludgeoning Damage Reduction, Immunity to: criticals, sneak attack, mind-effects, paralysis, cold damage, level ability drain, death magic, disease, and poison.
Ah, but then they are finally killed.. and that's about the time you realize you can invoke them again - INFINITELY.
So - do they *last* against tough opponents? For the most part - NO. Really depends on the opponent though. They are however quite good for lower level mobs that sometimes accompany really tough opponents. This is especially the case with *2* of them at once. Just one, and they go down pretty quickly, but 2 - not so easily. Remember though, it is NOT a matter of *if* they add to damage - because they usually don't, rather its a matter of *how long* they distract your opponents so that you can cast more rounds of Eldritch Chain with some sort of modifier. ..And again, slowing these opponents make the Skeletal Warriors last that much longer.
THAT then is at least a little interesting. AND you can "play" with them further. Find a Deadly Trap but can't disable it yet? Summon a Skeletal Warrior onto it! Just out of view of the enemy and need them to come toward you without targeting *you* (..perhaps into a trap you have set)? Summon a Skeletal Warrior! (..and yes, they do *not* trip *your* traps on Hardcore setting.) They are surprisingly useful - and they can even be "buffed" to add-in some damage AND last a bit longer.
But don't get to enamored with them, 'cause the next Invocation *rocks* (..as long as you use it correctly).
..continued:
*2* characters; differences between the two shown with [brackets].
Halfling (Strongheart) 6/18/14/16/8/14 Neutral Evil. Deity: Auril.
1. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 4], Concentration 4, Intimidate 4, Lore 4, Spellcraft 4.
Feats: Veteran (background), Fey Heritage, Spell Penetration. Invocation: Draining Blast.
2. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1]. Concentration 1, Intimidate 1, Lore 1, Spellcraft 1.
Invocation: Entropic Shield.
3. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1]. Concentration 1, Intimidate 1, Lore 1, Spellcraft 1.
Feat: Weapon Focus Ranged Touch Attack.
4. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Heal 2, Lore 1.
Attribute: Dexterity. Invocation: See the Unseen.
5. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Heal 2, Lore 1.
6. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Heal 2, Lore 1.
Feat: Greater Spell Penetration. Invocation: Eldritch Chain.
7. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Heal 2, Lore 1.
8. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Heal 2, Lore 1.
Attribute: Dexterity. Invocation: Brimstone Blast.
9. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy: 1], Concentration 1, Lore 1, Use Magic Device 2.
Feat: Blindfight.
10. Hellfire Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1, Use Magic Device 4.
Invocation: The Dead Walk.
11. Hellfire Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1, Use Magic Device 4.
Invocation: Chilling Tentacles.
12. Hellfire Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1, Survival 1, Use Magic Device 3.
Attribute: Dexterity. Feat: Improved Critical Ranged Touch Attack.
Trade-out Invocation: Brimstone Blast for: [Flee the Scene vs. Curse of Despair].
13. Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1, Use Magic Device 4.
Resist Fire, Resist Cold. Invocation: [Vitriolic Blast vs. Noxious Blast].
14. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 4], Concentration 1.
15. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 2], Concentration 1, Spellcraft 2.
Feat: [Craft Magical Arms and Armor vs. Craft Wondrous Item]. Invocation: [Noxious Blast vs. Vitriolic Blast].
16. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 1], Concentration 1, Spellcraft 3.
Attribute: Dexterity. Invocation: Eldritch Doom.
17. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 1], Concentration 1, Spellcraft 3.
18. Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1,Spellcraft 4.
Feat: Fey Skin. Invocation: Blinding Blast.
19. Warlock; Skills: Concentration 1, Spellcraft 4.
20. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 3], Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1.
Attribute: Dexterity. Invocation: Dark Foresight.
21. Warlock; Skills: [Bluff vs. Craft Alchemy 1], Concentration 1, Lore 1, Spellcraft 1, Use Magic Device 1.
Feat: Eldritch Master.
Notes:
Continue on with the Warlock class. If you get to level 23 then choose the feat: Epic Fiendish Resilience.
If you have never played the Warlock class you'll likely be disappointed - at first. After getting Eldritch Chain however, you'll start to see the power in the class.
Typical reaction:
First you invoke your Entropic Shield - and as you stare into the cool pink/purple hue you just feel good about the class.
Then you start firing off your 2d6 Eldritch blast with the Eldritch Essence Draining Blast. In a single round it isn't much damage.. Sometimes enough to out-right kill weaker opponents (..*if* you "roll" well). IF its a weaker opponent AND it isn't killed - then its very likely you will slow it (..with the Draining Blast essence portion). Meanwhile your "meatshield" is probably "popping" the enemy like over-ripe acne - right and left with additional attacks per round and extra attacks from Cleave. Its about at this point that you start wondering why you chose Warlocks at all.
Then you start to rationalize the class: "Dude here has recommended it.. can't be all bad." "Hey, it does increase to 3d6 next level - THAT should provide some serious improvement.." "Well, at least I'm getting to fire this thing off as often as I can.." ..Still, it *does* seem lackluster.
At 5th level you get the 3d6 and sure enough - kills happen more often, but not a lot more often (..because some of the opponents are getting stronger).
Then you start thinking to yourself - "Hmm, doesn't a 5th level Wizard have access to Fireball at this point? Could be tossing a Nuke like that and here I am shooting wuss rays.." ..and THIS IS THE POINT WHERE MANY GIVE UP. ***MISTAKE***.
*IF* you keep with it, at 6th level you'll get that Eldritch Chain. That with the Draining Blast Essence and you usually start hitting 2 targets with 3d6, and THAT you notice. Even if it doesn't kill either, it probably has slowed both. This allows your meatshield plenty of time to mop-up with one target and progress to the next, particularly because these targets are likely to have less than half their hit-points due to the Eldrtich Blast's 3d6 roll of damage.
Then you hit them again, and again - and you start thinking "Hmm, maybe this class does have merit.." You might also notice that these Warlocks aren't receiving any damage. Still - a well placed Fireball *can* do more damage and possibly end the battle right there.
Then you get 4d6 of damage the next level, and its starting to *look* like a good class.. BUT - its the same-ole same-ole. Shoot cool looking rays, rinse-and-repeat. Not nearly as interesting as a Wizard or Sorcerer. Net response - "*looks* good, plays decently, still feels lackluster."
Then you get Brimstone Blast (required for the Hellfire Warlock) - does a bit more damage, looks different, but you loose the "slow" effect of Draining Blast. Works great with Trolls though. SOME PEOPLE GIVE UP HERE. ***MISTAKE***.
At 10th level your Eldritch Chain goes "jumps" to ***3*** opponents (with 5d6 of damage each).
Also at 10th level you also add the invocation: The Dead Walk. (..again, for both characters.) So you invoke them - and hey, its the same Skeletal Warrior as the spell Animate Undead (a 4th level spell for Wizards). Furthermore you notice that they can actually take a bit of a beating before they are killed. Then you notice that it also seems they can *occasionally* do at least a little bit of damage (..well, to weaker mobs of opponents). You might even find out that - oh yeah, they are immune to mind effects.. and realize - criticals too! ..And if you do a little research you'll find that they have 5/Bludgeoning Damage Reduction, Immunity to: criticals, sneak attack, mind-effects, paralysis, cold damage, level ability drain, death magic, disease, and poison.
Ah, but then they are finally killed.. and that's about the time you realize you can invoke them again - INFINITELY.
So - do they *last* against tough opponents? For the most part - NO. Really depends on the opponent though. They are however quite good for lower level mobs that sometimes accompany really tough opponents. This is especially the case with *2* of them at once. Just one, and they go down pretty quickly, but 2 - not so easily. Remember though, it is NOT a matter of *if* they add to damage - because they usually don't, rather its a matter of *how long* they distract your opponents so that you can cast more rounds of Eldritch Chain with some sort of modifier. ..And again, slowing these opponents make the Skeletal Warriors last that much longer.
THAT then is at least a little interesting. AND you can "play" with them further. Find a Deadly Trap but can't disable it yet? Summon a Skeletal Warrior onto it! Just out of view of the enemy and need them to come toward you without targeting *you* (..perhaps into a trap you have set)? Summon a Skeletal Warrior! (..and yes, they do *not* trip *your* traps on Hardcore setting.) They are surprisingly useful - and they can even be "buffed" to add-in some damage AND last a bit longer.
But don't get to enamored with them, 'cause the next Invocation *rocks* (..as long as you use it correctly).
..continued:
Chilling Tentacles is more like the "white"/cold damage version of Evard's Black Tentacles. Evard's is a useful if an unspectacular spell - at least as a single casting. From a Wizard's point of view - there are other better damaging spells with area effects, PLUS the potential for paralysis is hit-and-miss. So what makes the Warlock's version better?
1. It adds 2d6 per round of no-save cold damage.
2. NO SPELL RESISTANCE.
3. Its duration scales with Warlock level - 1 min 6 seconds when you first get it.
And perhaps most importantly - you can cast layer upon layer of this thing. If one tentacle didn't get your enemy then another probably did, and another, and another, and another, etc.. This *also* increases the chance for paralysis, BUT that is largely dependent on your charisma modifier vs. their fortitude save. Not a real big deal though if they walk into it and have a stream of bludgeoning and cold damage. For the most part only peeps and monsters with decent damage reduction to bludgeoning damage and cold damage will not be harmed by this spell. (..its useless against Elite Vampires.) Now the astute reader is perhaps remembering what the Skeletal Warriors damage reduction and immunities are, and how it relates to this invocation; and then realizing that *your* summon can walk through this stuff to hack on the enemy that's trying to wade through it. Yeah, cool.
In particular - this spell is FANTASTIC on overland map fights, particularly if you used an Intimidate parlay before attacking (..that will slow or stop their initial attack). In many cases you can Intimidate/stun the enemy, lay-down as much of this spell as you like (..a veritable wall of death), and then pull out a bow and shoot one arrow at the enemy that will induce them to run into said "wall of death". Walk around the "wall" and off of the overland map - rinse and repeat as often as you like.
Any way - that's just part of the Warlocks power - then there is the Hellfire version:
Hellfire warlock - Neverwinter Nights 2 - NWN2Wiki: your guide to everything Neverwinter Nights 2
I will say this about this prestige class:
1. It requires *very* little for what it provides in return - essentially a handful of skill points that you might have spent some points on for those particular skills anyway (..especially spellcraft for the chance of certain epic feats). It also "ties-up" one second level invocation for a few character levels, BUT you get to switch to what's more promising at your final level for this class (level 12). Finally it reduces your standard Eldritch Blast by 1d6 over the course of a build in SOZ (..you'll get 6d6 at level 14 rather than 7d6 at level 14).
2. It effectively delays getting a few Warlock feats. The partially defective "Imbue Item" needed for crafting isn't availble until character level 15 now (instead of 12). Probably not a problem in SOZ because with this party you might not have started into serious trading yet (..and couldn't afford the items anyway).
3. That summon is RIDICULOUS! (..or at least some of the time it is.) I've seen 3 potential summons. They are all random. One is a horned devil that will attack you after a short time IF it isn't otherwise engaged in combat with your enemies. Another looks like a clipped-wing Erinyes, and I've never seen it attack my party. Dido for the last one - never seen it attack my party. ..And the last one is again, ridiculous - a Mephasm. THAT is a creature *any* 30th level caster would be proud to have summoned. You can summon it as early as 11th level; no other class even comes close.
Note: each character can only have one *summon* at a time so its either a Skeletal Warrior or your Hellfire summon. And of course the Hellfire summon is only once-per-day and has the potential to turn on you (..unless you have protection from evil cast - say by a certain Monk, or perhaps from wands provided by a certain Monk later in the game).
OK then - about the other Invocations and the particular feats selected for this build..
Invocations:
1. Entropic Shield - arrows interrupt casting Eldritch Blast, (and of course can kill your Warlocks), the better your chance to avoid them, the better your ability to lay-waste to the enemy (..and survive of course). It also doesn't hurt to have some Hide and Move Silently skill increases to accompany your character when using Walk Unseen (..or for this build - a ring of invisibility).
2. See the Unseen - allows you to get away without Spot or Listen skills (..crucial). If you can't see your target - whats the point?
3. Flee the Scene - mass haste for 30 seconds whenever you want it. Nice for combat, nice for moving around "town" (..though of course not on the overland map). It also no longer feels like a "rip" now that the normal version of haste is only per individual again. One last critical point: It hastes all of your party WHERE EVER THEY ARE. Not only do you *not* have to go over and haste someone during battle (and potentially risk your Warlock to attack), but you can also haste your Monk while he "motors around" in stealth mode exploring a "hazardous location". (The rest of your party gets to wait by the front door, while your Monk gets to do what every you want - at a quick pace.) Want to effectively "assassinate" opponents with your Monk without traps, but also without HIPS? Your Monk is already fast - but haste him/her and you can get around a corner and out of sight so fast that your enemies will only see a blur before you disappear (..obviously hiding again once out of sight).
4. Curse of Despair. Useful against *really* tough opponents. Your meatshield's AC level vs. your opponents attack number could be very close - a little bit extra to tip-the-scale in your favor could be the difference between dying quickly OR showing no damage at all.
5. Vitriolic Blast. If an enemy has absurd spell resistance or immunity to magical attack - this is your "fall-back" attack method. It also coup de gra's Trolls.
6. Noxious Blast. 10 Rounds of Dazed and Confused *targets*, whats not to like? Sometimes it doesn't have the DC "penetration" to get past high fortitude save types. Great with area effect Eldritch Doom.
7. Eldritch Doom. If its a high AC opponent and you can't touch it - this can sometimes do the trick (unless they have an excellent reflex save and/or Improved Evasion). Good area coverage for your casters's Eldritch Blast (with whatever essence you want to use). Hits a LOT of enemies at once.
8. Binding Blast. A high DC *will* save dis-abler. Its only for one round, BUT if you cast this again and again - your opponents aren't likely to withstand this before turning to "ash" (from the Eldritch Blast). Works on almost everyone. Fantastic with Eldritch Doom.
9. Dark Foresight. A short duration lesser version of premonition. Still useful in tough situations - and it even overlaps with your Cold Iron damage reduction to give your more complete protection.
Feats & Attribute increases:
1. Fey Heritage - essentially taken for Fey skin much latter (..stacks an extra +2 to damage reduction). It isn't bad either as an increase to mind saves.
2. Spell Penetration(s): - required for a class that can have their main attack *resisted*. (..though Vitriolic blast does get around this.)
3. Weapon Focus Ranged Touch Attack - Along with Dexterity increases this helps your ranged touch attack, as does your racial bonus. If you can't hit it what's the point?
4. Blindfight - good against concealed opponents - where See the Unseen will allow you to target them, but not HIT them. Crucial, and at a point in the game BEFORE you'll find many concealment-type opponents.
5. Improved Critical Ranged Touch Attack - improve your critical threat range for the chance of *double* your Eldritch Damage with Eldritch Chain (but not Eldritch Doom). This is as early as it can be gotten.
6. The Crafting feats: at a time when you probably are starting to accrue money AND have the feat Imbue Item.
7. Eldritch Master - FANTASTIC! Rogues get lucky to have *half* their sneak attack damage on non-sneak attack opponents at epic levels. Warlocks however get half-*again* their damage on ALL opponents + some attack bonus. Possibly the single best epic feat (..though perhaps a Bard's song of requiem is better still.)
8. Epic Fiendish Resilience - Incredibly powerful - makes your Warlock pretty much un-killable for a modest duration except against very high damage-type opponents. You probably won't get to this though.
Final notes:
Though Tenacious Plague is awesome, it's for a stealth driven Warlock - not a pair of Warlocks with *tailored* support.
I've played Dexterity Warlocks and Charisma Warlocks - accepting a Tenacious Plauge-like build, I'll take the Dexterity build and receive the AC as simply a bonus. This really depends though on how much you fear your opponents making their save on your essences and various invocations.
Note that one character has a high Bluff skill level, the other has a high Craft Alchemy skill level. One has "Flee the Scene" while another has Curse of Despair. One gets Vitrolic blast *earlier*, and the other gets Noxious blast *earlier* (..though they both acquire the other later). Finally, one gets Craft Magical Arms and Armor while the other gets Craft Wondrous Items.
1. It adds 2d6 per round of no-save cold damage.
2. NO SPELL RESISTANCE.
3. Its duration scales with Warlock level - 1 min 6 seconds when you first get it.
And perhaps most importantly - you can cast layer upon layer of this thing. If one tentacle didn't get your enemy then another probably did, and another, and another, and another, etc.. This *also* increases the chance for paralysis, BUT that is largely dependent on your charisma modifier vs. their fortitude save. Not a real big deal though if they walk into it and have a stream of bludgeoning and cold damage. For the most part only peeps and monsters with decent damage reduction to bludgeoning damage and cold damage will not be harmed by this spell. (..its useless against Elite Vampires.) Now the astute reader is perhaps remembering what the Skeletal Warriors damage reduction and immunities are, and how it relates to this invocation; and then realizing that *your* summon can walk through this stuff to hack on the enemy that's trying to wade through it. Yeah, cool.
In particular - this spell is FANTASTIC on overland map fights, particularly if you used an Intimidate parlay before attacking (..that will slow or stop their initial attack). In many cases you can Intimidate/stun the enemy, lay-down as much of this spell as you like (..a veritable wall of death), and then pull out a bow and shoot one arrow at the enemy that will induce them to run into said "wall of death". Walk around the "wall" and off of the overland map - rinse and repeat as often as you like.
Any way - that's just part of the Warlocks power - then there is the Hellfire version:
Hellfire warlock - Neverwinter Nights 2 - NWN2Wiki: your guide to everything Neverwinter Nights 2
I will say this about this prestige class:
1. It requires *very* little for what it provides in return - essentially a handful of skill points that you might have spent some points on for those particular skills anyway (..especially spellcraft for the chance of certain epic feats). It also "ties-up" one second level invocation for a few character levels, BUT you get to switch to what's more promising at your final level for this class (level 12). Finally it reduces your standard Eldritch Blast by 1d6 over the course of a build in SOZ (..you'll get 6d6 at level 14 rather than 7d6 at level 14).
2. It effectively delays getting a few Warlock feats. The partially defective "Imbue Item" needed for crafting isn't availble until character level 15 now (instead of 12). Probably not a problem in SOZ because with this party you might not have started into serious trading yet (..and couldn't afford the items anyway).
3. That summon is RIDICULOUS! (..or at least some of the time it is.) I've seen 3 potential summons. They are all random. One is a horned devil that will attack you after a short time IF it isn't otherwise engaged in combat with your enemies. Another looks like a clipped-wing Erinyes, and I've never seen it attack my party. Dido for the last one - never seen it attack my party. ..And the last one is again, ridiculous - a Mephasm. THAT is a creature *any* 30th level caster would be proud to have summoned. You can summon it as early as 11th level; no other class even comes close.
Note: each character can only have one *summon* at a time so its either a Skeletal Warrior or your Hellfire summon. And of course the Hellfire summon is only once-per-day and has the potential to turn on you (..unless you have protection from evil cast - say by a certain Monk, or perhaps from wands provided by a certain Monk later in the game).
OK then - about the other Invocations and the particular feats selected for this build..
Invocations:
1. Entropic Shield - arrows interrupt casting Eldritch Blast, (and of course can kill your Warlocks), the better your chance to avoid them, the better your ability to lay-waste to the enemy (..and survive of course). It also doesn't hurt to have some Hide and Move Silently skill increases to accompany your character when using Walk Unseen (..or for this build - a ring of invisibility).
2. See the Unseen - allows you to get away without Spot or Listen skills (..crucial). If you can't see your target - whats the point?
3. Flee the Scene - mass haste for 30 seconds whenever you want it. Nice for combat, nice for moving around "town" (..though of course not on the overland map). It also no longer feels like a "rip" now that the normal version of haste is only per individual again. One last critical point: It hastes all of your party WHERE EVER THEY ARE. Not only do you *not* have to go over and haste someone during battle (and potentially risk your Warlock to attack), but you can also haste your Monk while he "motors around" in stealth mode exploring a "hazardous location". (The rest of your party gets to wait by the front door, while your Monk gets to do what every you want - at a quick pace.) Want to effectively "assassinate" opponents with your Monk without traps, but also without HIPS? Your Monk is already fast - but haste him/her and you can get around a corner and out of sight so fast that your enemies will only see a blur before you disappear (..obviously hiding again once out of sight).
4. Curse of Despair. Useful against *really* tough opponents. Your meatshield's AC level vs. your opponents attack number could be very close - a little bit extra to tip-the-scale in your favor could be the difference between dying quickly OR showing no damage at all.
5. Vitriolic Blast. If an enemy has absurd spell resistance or immunity to magical attack - this is your "fall-back" attack method. It also coup de gra's Trolls.
6. Noxious Blast. 10 Rounds of Dazed and Confused *targets*, whats not to like? Sometimes it doesn't have the DC "penetration" to get past high fortitude save types. Great with area effect Eldritch Doom.
7. Eldritch Doom. If its a high AC opponent and you can't touch it - this can sometimes do the trick (unless they have an excellent reflex save and/or Improved Evasion). Good area coverage for your casters's Eldritch Blast (with whatever essence you want to use). Hits a LOT of enemies at once.
8. Binding Blast. A high DC *will* save dis-abler. Its only for one round, BUT if you cast this again and again - your opponents aren't likely to withstand this before turning to "ash" (from the Eldritch Blast). Works on almost everyone. Fantastic with Eldritch Doom.
9. Dark Foresight. A short duration lesser version of premonition. Still useful in tough situations - and it even overlaps with your Cold Iron damage reduction to give your more complete protection.
Feats & Attribute increases:
1. Fey Heritage - essentially taken for Fey skin much latter (..stacks an extra +2 to damage reduction). It isn't bad either as an increase to mind saves.
2. Spell Penetration(s): - required for a class that can have their main attack *resisted*. (..though Vitriolic blast does get around this.)
3. Weapon Focus Ranged Touch Attack - Along with Dexterity increases this helps your ranged touch attack, as does your racial bonus. If you can't hit it what's the point?
4. Blindfight - good against concealed opponents - where See the Unseen will allow you to target them, but not HIT them. Crucial, and at a point in the game BEFORE you'll find many concealment-type opponents.
5. Improved Critical Ranged Touch Attack - improve your critical threat range for the chance of *double* your Eldritch Damage with Eldritch Chain (but not Eldritch Doom). This is as early as it can be gotten.
6. The Crafting feats: at a time when you probably are starting to accrue money AND have the feat Imbue Item.
7. Eldritch Master - FANTASTIC! Rogues get lucky to have *half* their sneak attack damage on non-sneak attack opponents at epic levels. Warlocks however get half-*again* their damage on ALL opponents + some attack bonus. Possibly the single best epic feat (..though perhaps a Bard's song of requiem is better still.)
8. Epic Fiendish Resilience - Incredibly powerful - makes your Warlock pretty much un-killable for a modest duration except against very high damage-type opponents. You probably won't get to this though.
Final notes:
Though Tenacious Plague is awesome, it's for a stealth driven Warlock - not a pair of Warlocks with *tailored* support.
I've played Dexterity Warlocks and Charisma Warlocks - accepting a Tenacious Plauge-like build, I'll take the Dexterity build and receive the AC as simply a bonus. This really depends though on how much you fear your opponents making their save on your essences and various invocations.
Note that one character has a high Bluff skill level, the other has a high Craft Alchemy skill level. One has "Flee the Scene" while another has Curse of Despair. One gets Vitrolic blast *earlier*, and the other gets Noxious blast *earlier* (..though they both acquire the other later). Finally, one gets Craft Magical Arms and Armor while the other gets Craft Wondrous Items.
Is it possible to level of a NPC (wizard?) Just to enough level to craft some decent stuff 12? or would this be a waste. I loaded my party for combat and I'm wondering if I should sacrifice my druid's feat to get the craft arms and armor feat or if I can just level a wizard a bit to get that?
Bonus question...in the OC 'level squatting' is good for XP. Does this work in SoZ (I know its kind of cheesy)..
level squatting: not leveling up which increases the xp you get for low level monsters. For example get a character to 6, 11 BAB or a key feat or spell and then level squat until it gets too hard.
Bonus question...in the OC 'level squatting' is good for XP. Does this work in SoZ (I know its kind of cheesy)..
level squatting: not leveling up which increases the xp you get for low level monsters. For example get a character to 6, 11 BAB or a key feat or spell and then level squat until it gets too hard.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Indeed - provided you have the cash, the access to the Adventurer's Guild, and the hireling/cohort registered in your party book (and actually *in* your party when you want to level them) - then you can crank up their levels all the way up to the level of your own (made by you) character(s). (Note: I'm not entirely sure of this (the cap) - it at least *seemed* to work that way.. but who knows, there may be another cap in there some where.)Claudius wrote:Is it possible to level of a NPC (wizard?) Just to enough level to craft some decent stuff 12? or would this be a waste. I loaded my party for combat and I'm wondering if I should sacrifice my druid's feat to get the craft arms and armor feat or if I can just level a wizard a bit to get that?
Bonus question...in the OC 'level squatting' is good for XP. Does this work in SoZ (I know its kind of cheesy)..
level squatting: not leveling up which increases the xp you get for low level monsters. For example get a character to 6, 11 BAB or a key feat or spell and then level squat until it gets too hard.
Additionally - with a fairly traditional run through the game access to the Adventurer's Guild occurs with access to funds.
I don't know about the "level squatting".. but it would be kind of pointless for most of the game. IF you want to level-up faster then see the TIP on SOLO runs in the first post (..it works for 4 character parties as well, though not to the same degree).
Crafting:
One thing I notice in the first recipes there is not much requirement...just craft arms and armor, a caster level and gold. Some items have special things you need to find.
But I don't see: fireball, acid arrow, haste or things like that. I ask because I am tempted to switch a feat around with a character. He could take craft arms and armor early on and slightly switch his build around. If all I need is caster levels is true I will have plenty with practiced caster spell. For the same price I bought last game (restarted just for fun) a longbow of frost +1 I could have a longbow of frost AND sonic +1 and still have extra money. And I had max appraise, high intelligence, appraise gloves, and shadow thief discount...
To clarify my question is: can any caster craft any items or am I going to need certain spells or classes? For example could a bard craft any items? I don't have a bard but in OC a bard could craft very little because of spell selection.
What do you think about this option? I would probably forgo persistent spells on one of my characters to achieve this.
One thing I notice in the first recipes there is not much requirement...just craft arms and armor, a caster level and gold. Some items have special things you need to find.
But I don't see: fireball, acid arrow, haste or things like that. I ask because I am tempted to switch a feat around with a character. He could take craft arms and armor early on and slightly switch his build around. If all I need is caster levels is true I will have plenty with practiced caster spell. For the same price I bought last game (restarted just for fun) a longbow of frost +1 I could have a longbow of frost AND sonic +1 and still have extra money. And I had max appraise, high intelligence, appraise gloves, and shadow thief discount...
To clarify my question is: can any caster craft any items or am I going to need certain spells or classes? For example could a bard craft any items? I don't have a bard but in OC a bard could craft very little because of spell selection.
What do you think about this option? I would probably forgo persistent spells on one of my characters to achieve this.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Claudius wrote:Crafting:
To clarify my question is: can any caster craft any items or am I going to need certain spells or classes? For example could a bard craft any items? I don't have a bard but in OC a bard could craft very little because of spell selection.
What do you think about this option? I would probably forgo persistent spells on one of my characters to achieve this.
Any character can craft any item as long as they meet the perquisites.
Only Wondrous Items require spells or ingredients. The Leader is required to have the ingredients. I don't know if the spells can be pulled from any party member OR just the party member with Wondrous Item.
IF they can pull from any party member then it really doesn't matter for the Bard as long as another member in your party has that spell. IF however that isn't the way it works (and your Bard is the one with that feat), then you might have problems.
TIP: Most of the really useful wondrous items require the particular 2nd level attribute enhancing spell (Bulls Strength, Cat's Grace, etc.) to make those attribute enhancing items. There are a few other items you might want that are not of the attribute enhancing variety (..particularly save modifier stuff), most other stuff is either gimmicky or redundant because of in-game items or overlap with Craft Magical Arms and Armor (..typically AC improvements). In fact there aren't that many really good wondrous items to craft in the game.
Craft Magical Arms and Armor only requires the feat, gold, caster level/capable of casting a certain level of spells (..specifically for that arms and armor character), and of course the recipe. (..in the party at the time of crafting.)
The standard stuff requires skill levels from one party member for crafting things like traps, potions, etc..
TIP:*Generally* purchase all recipes in-game if you think you might use them (..at the time you find them and can afford them).
Personally I wouldn't spend ANY feats on any of this..
I'd use the in-game Warlock (with the patch) and give him Both Feats and level him up at the adventurers guild.
Hmm...
But I can have a +1 Shock, Frost Longbow at the same cost of a +1 Frost Longbow and still have 5000 gold extra. They seriously rip you off on magic items...(I think you do need a fair amount of caster levels).
But I can have a +1 Shock, Frost Longbow at the same cost of a +1 Frost Longbow and still have 5000 gold extra. They seriously rip you off on magic items...(I think you do need a fair amount of caster levels).
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
at a certain point in the game you won't care about money. You'll be cashing in on tens of thousands of trade bars at a time. :speech:Claudius wrote:Hmm...
But I can have a +1 Shock, Frost Longbow at the same cost of a +1 Frost Longbow and still have 5000 gold extra. They seriously rip you off on magic items...(I think you do need a fair amount of caster levels).
..it is true though that some items are a poor value, suggestion then: don't buy them.
Generally speaking you shouldn't really need them at a time when they are such a poor value.I think the number of enchantments an item has requires a certain caster level. (..perhaps caster level 5 = 1, level 10 = 2, level 15 = 3.. don't know though.)
I think unlike MoTB it is more like the OC where you can have 3 enchantments with no level restrictions. I think with my SToA epitaph when I get it and high appraise I might even be able to create some leather armor +1 for a profit, although that would be pretty cheesy and also tedious.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Carry over post with questions:
QUESTIONS:
"First of all, I've seen that there are several hireable NPCs in the game (11 or 12, right?). Do they have any side-plot as in the vanilla game? if so, it would be very irritating because I don't have (nor the will) to play the game over and over to appreciate all interactions. Also, this would force me to choose among building my perfect party or using in-game characters, eventually using console cheats to carry them all together. BUT if they have only one single-quest, I could create a party of 5 then take the Leadership feat to carry the 6th man only for the time of completing his quest and then I would drop it/her.
Also, what would it happen if I would import my epic level dragon disciple + wapon master into SoZ? would it cause an unbalanced game?
More, SoZ would bring my party to level 20, more or less, so no epic levels (weird!) so I have to carefully plan my party levels aproximatively to that limit, right?
Last but not least, as far I've understood, the group leader has to be a very smart character with the best diplomatic and sneak/survival skills at top to fully enjoy those "party interaction" bonuses that I've seen here and there.
May I also ask if a specialist wizard and a cleric would be able to craft all kind of magic items? if so, what are the domains and arcane schools that I need? (and which one I don't?)"
ANSWERS:
For the most part they don't have quests, and virtually no interaction. Overall they are kind of worthless. Forget the leadership feat, and for the most part forget using them. (..it's completely crap in comparison to the OC or MOTB.)
It's designed for level 4 characters ONLY (at start). So yes, it would be utterly unbalanced to import an uber character. The ONLY time you should consider importing a higher level character is for a "solo" run - and even then only with as much as 8 levels to start.
Level 20 ONLY if have 4 or fewer party members AND you do some grinding. Figure 17-18 is more "par for the course".
The Leader *should* have either a high Hide and/or Move Silently skill and additionally augmented by equipment. If you plan to use a particular Overland Map encounter dialogue skill (Intimidate or Bluff), then it would be preferable if that character also had a high skill level for that dialogue. (My preference is Intimidate.) The Leader should also have a modest Survival skill (5-8 works well enough). Your other characters can concentrate on the other skills.
I'm a bit "hazy" on the wondrous item crafting. If I remember correctly, most of the better equipment (that required spells) are attribute related and so required the 2nd level modifier spells - i.e. Bulls Strength, Cat's Grace, etc..So *any* Cleric will work out. A Wizard should not have transmutation "off of their list" (because of specialization) if you want to craft these items and if you have no other party members with these spells.
QUESTION:
"Now, if you can spoil which one of the NPCs has sub-quests or plots"
ANSWERS:
None really have sub-quests.
The one that *almost* does isn't until about 60%+ into the game. (..doomguide and his girlfriend.) It's up to you. They all suck pretty equally.
If you don't have a monk, then I'd consider that character (..requires the spell Darkness to hire him).
The Druid with his dino pet is also decent.
The Warlock isn't bad either.
The monk, the pet buffed, and the Warlock can all damage the uber baddie at the end battle without serious complications.
For a 6 member party consider about level 15-16 with modest grinding. Grind a fair bit more and possibly as high as level 19. If you go with the Druid then prepare to grind until that character has level 9 Natures Avatar for your dino pet before the end-battle. Do NOT change from the Druid class for that character (otherwise it kills the dino pet's effectiveness).
QUESTIONS:
"First of all, I've seen that there are several hireable NPCs in the game (11 or 12, right?). Do they have any side-plot as in the vanilla game? if so, it would be very irritating because I don't have (nor the will) to play the game over and over to appreciate all interactions. Also, this would force me to choose among building my perfect party or using in-game characters, eventually using console cheats to carry them all together. BUT if they have only one single-quest, I could create a party of 5 then take the Leadership feat to carry the 6th man only for the time of completing his quest and then I would drop it/her.
Also, what would it happen if I would import my epic level dragon disciple + wapon master into SoZ? would it cause an unbalanced game?
More, SoZ would bring my party to level 20, more or less, so no epic levels (weird!) so I have to carefully plan my party levels aproximatively to that limit, right?
Last but not least, as far I've understood, the group leader has to be a very smart character with the best diplomatic and sneak/survival skills at top to fully enjoy those "party interaction" bonuses that I've seen here and there.
May I also ask if a specialist wizard and a cleric would be able to craft all kind of magic items? if so, what are the domains and arcane schools that I need? (and which one I don't?)"
ANSWERS:
For the most part they don't have quests, and virtually no interaction. Overall they are kind of worthless. Forget the leadership feat, and for the most part forget using them. (..it's completely crap in comparison to the OC or MOTB.)
It's designed for level 4 characters ONLY (at start). So yes, it would be utterly unbalanced to import an uber character. The ONLY time you should consider importing a higher level character is for a "solo" run - and even then only with as much as 8 levels to start.
Level 20 ONLY if have 4 or fewer party members AND you do some grinding. Figure 17-18 is more "par for the course".
The Leader *should* have either a high Hide and/or Move Silently skill and additionally augmented by equipment. If you plan to use a particular Overland Map encounter dialogue skill (Intimidate or Bluff), then it would be preferable if that character also had a high skill level for that dialogue. (My preference is Intimidate.) The Leader should also have a modest Survival skill (5-8 works well enough). Your other characters can concentrate on the other skills.
I'm a bit "hazy" on the wondrous item crafting. If I remember correctly, most of the better equipment (that required spells) are attribute related and so required the 2nd level modifier spells - i.e. Bulls Strength, Cat's Grace, etc..So *any* Cleric will work out. A Wizard should not have transmutation "off of their list" (because of specialization) if you want to craft these items and if you have no other party members with these spells.
QUESTION:
"Now, if you can spoil which one of the NPCs has sub-quests or plots"
ANSWERS:
None really have sub-quests.
The one that *almost* does isn't until about 60%+ into the game. (..doomguide and his girlfriend.) It's up to you. They all suck pretty equally.
If you don't have a monk, then I'd consider that character (..requires the spell Darkness to hire him).
The Druid with his dino pet is also decent.
The Warlock isn't bad either.
The monk, the pet buffed, and the Warlock can all damage the uber baddie at the end battle without serious complications.
For a 6 member party consider about level 15-16 with modest grinding. Grind a fair bit more and possibly as high as level 19. If you go with the Druid then prepare to grind until that character has level 9 Natures Avatar for your dino pet before the end-battle. Do NOT change from the Druid class for that character (otherwise it kills the dino pet's effectiveness).
-
fable
- Posts: 30676
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
- Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
- Contact:
Nice stuff, Scottg.
I take it the alignment and god choices are pretty much for flavor (except for the Blackguard career move)?
Could you provide another couple of 3rd and 4th place options, perhaps to vary out the similarities within your current set? Also: which of the already present 11 party NPCs would you keep in your party?
I take it the alignment and god choices are pretty much for flavor (except for the Blackguard career move)?
Could you provide another couple of 3rd and 4th place options, perhaps to vary out the similarities within your current set? Also: which of the already present 11 party NPCs would you keep in your party?
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.