Picking a class - Ranger/Cleric, Fighter/Cleric or pure Cleric

chass · Post by **chass** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:02 am

Hey there,

I was going to start BG2 again but am completely torn on which class to pick. I played through it for the first time as an Inquisitor.

I was going to play a Ranger/Cleric for the Ranger's lore and tanking ability, then realized they would probably be played better dual wielding something (because they get the 2 point bonus automatically), which I'm not really fond of. On top of that, is there even a point in the game where dual classing from Fighter or Ranger to Cleric (if I remember correctly you start the game at level 7 or 8) is worth it? If not, I wouldn't mind playing BG1 with tutu before, I just don't have the CDs here at the moment.

Does the Ranger have any advantages when wearing sword and board that would make me take him over a Fighter (to dual class to a Cleric later on)?

Playing a pure Cleric would be my last resort as I wanted to get Viconia into my group as the main healer in BG2, is playing with 2 clerics any good? I remember playing with Viconia and the Paladin order cleric dude and dumped him at some point in the game.

Oh and, are those class combinations actually viable? I wanted to play a character that could tank secondary targets, deal some damage and do some healing on top. Would you suggest taking a Paladin for that?

So many questions, I hope I can add some as the thread goes on.

Thanks for any replies, I'll try to constructively contribute to this forum as much as I can.

P.S. I was only talking about dual classing because I was going to take a Human as my character because I have some custom portraits that I like a ton and dislike pretty much all the other character models, the min/maxer in me hates me for it but I'm not playing BG competitively, so I guess I can take a few drawbacks as long as I don't break my intended character.

mcgregor · Post by **mcgregor** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:06 pm

ranger/clerics are one of the best tank-type characters in the game, owing to the fact they can cast the full range of both cleric and druid spells, meaning they can buff with iron skins.

mcgregor

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:36 pm

Rangers get no Lore bonus.

Cleric/Rangers are great because of the Druid spells. Ironskins with a melee warrior is indeed a great combo.

A Fighter/Cleric (if a Dwarf) can get more HP and will have much better saving throws. It's up to you.

A single-classed Cleric really isn't worth it IMHO.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:06 pm

I'd suggest a cleric/ranger multiclass over the dual class.

While the ranger has less proficiency points than a fighter, with the right equipment they can hit just as fast. In the case of stalkers, you can backstab and archers are unmatched with the bow. Also, you can cast priest spells (up to level three), some of which remain useful until the end of the game.

A cleric is a powerful class and is able to beat a single class fighter when fully buffed.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:23 pm

I'm with Klorox and Crenshinibon on this--except that I would add a note about the mod, Divine Remix. It remakes clerics by substituting spheres for simple spells, and creates a raft of interesting kits. So in Viconia's case (if you chose to use Shadowkeeper to change her to her appropriate DD kit), she'd be a Nightcloak of Shar:

Abilities:
- Spiritual Weapon: Chakram - 'Disc of Night' once per day
The Disc of Night is the spiritual weapon of Nightcloaks. The chakram is treated as a returning dart and is wielded as if the caster had grand mastery in the weapon. The chakram is a regular weapon at levels 1-5, +1 at levels 6-10, +2 at 11-15, +3 at 16-20, +4 at 21-25, and +5 at levels 26 and above. The spiritual weapon lasts for one round per level of the caster, up to 20 rounds.
- Immune to all forms of Blindness.
- From level 7 can cast Confusion once per day, as fourth level mage spell of the same name
- From level 9 can cast Feeblemind once per day, as fifth level mage spell of the same name
- From level 11 can cast Invisible Stalker once per day, as sixth level mage spell of the same name
- From level 14 can cast Power Word, Stun once per day, as seventh level mage spell of the same name

Sphere Access:
- Major access to the spheres of all, charm, combat, divination, guardian, necromantic, protection, and thought
- Minor access to the spheres of creation, elemental and healing
- No access to the spheres of animal, chaos, law, numbers, plant, summoning, sun, war, wards and weather

...All of which doesn't unbalance clerics, but does make it easier to roleplay them with greater specificity. You and Viconia could be different kinds of clerics. I played through as a Feywarden of Corellon last year, and enjoyed the experience considerably.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:43 pm

Most powerful tank choice is the ranger/cleric since iron skins can absorb up to 10 enemy hits. You don't have to dualwield just because you get 2 proficiency points for free, many players have Minsc use 2-handed swords.
The best time for dualclassing is right at the start at ranger level 7, waiting longer will only slow down the thac0 and spell progression.
PS: Clerics cannot use swords, so you have to settle for flail, hammer or mace as effective melee weapon.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:32 pm

And those weapons are just fine, rather, in my opinion, better than swords.

With the multiclass however, you will still be a formidable fighter, even without buffs, which truly make you a force to be reckoned with. I think that out of all the classes I played, the ranger/cleric run-through was the easiest.

Also, Fable, the link you provided does not work.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:05 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:Also, Fable, the link you provided does not work.

I just tried it again, twice, and it did both times.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:16 pm

Hm. I apologize. Perhaps my connection died at that moment.

chass · Post by **chass** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:34 am

Rangers get no Lore bonus.

Yeah. I meant the Lore behind the class, not any bonuses or anything. : )

Cleric/Rangers are great because of the Druid spells. Ironskins with a melee warrior is indeed a great combo.

Isn't that some bug though? Or are you talking about a dualclassed Cleric/Ranger? I think I read somewhere that a multiclass Cleric/Ranger having Druid spells wasn't quite intended.

The best time for dualclassing is right at the start at ranger level 7, waiting longer will only slow down the thac0 and spell progression.

If I started with BG1/tutu, would you still suggest dualclassing at level 7?

With the multiclass however, you will still be a formidable fighter, even without buffs, which truly make you a force to be reckoned with. I think that out of all the classes I played, the ranger/cleric run-through was the easiest.

Is there a way to make Humans able to pick a multiclasses? I'd really like to play a Human.

Thanks for all the answers so far.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:03 pm

No, it was not intended that way, but the dual class suffers from the same bug.

The only way I know to play a human mutliclass is to start it as a non-human, choose the class and then edit the character with [url="http://www.mud-master.com/shadowkeeper/index.html"]Shadowkeeper[/url].

As for dual classing, I'd wait until SoA actually.

Do you intend to start as a Ranger and dualclass to cleric or do it the other way around?

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:54 pm

If I started with BG1/tutu, would you still suggest dualclassing at level 7?

If you play tutu I recommend dualclassing at level 3. You'll be a little weaker in SoA but you'll have the cleric spells in BG1 already.

Is there a way to make Humans able to pick a multiclasses? I'd really like to play a Human.

You can use an editor to allow this, but in SoA a multiclass will be inferior to a dualclass.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:10 pm

This is perhaps the only case where this is untrue. A multiclass would be superior, even if the player does not solo. The only way the player can get an advantage is by choosing a cleric kit first, to gain their special ability (I'd go for the Boon of Lathander). And then, it's one (two if under the effects of Improved Haste) extra attacks per round, which matters not as you'd have a good amount of Greater Whirlwinds to use.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:05 pm

In SoA a multiclass ranger can only reach level 12, at the 2,950,000 XP Cap a dualclassed ranger7/cleric has the same number of attacks, more hitpoints, hits better and casts far better than the multiclass which has only a little more useless stealth in return.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:43 pm

That is untrue. The dual class you suggest has THAC0 that is inferior to the multiclass. Also, at full level there is no difference in slots per level except at level six, where the dual class has one more slot, and level seven, where the dual class has four more slots. They cast exactly the same as we've determined that the whole caster level bit maxes out at twenty. Then, the multiclass has access to the fighter pool of high level abilities, which is simply invaluable. Greater Whirlwind will give the class ten attacks per round. Hardiness (in combination with a spell and an item) makes physical damage insignificant. Sure, you have Iron Skins, but unless you intend to stock up all nine slots with them, then you'll be taking more damage. Don't forget Greater Deathblow, which makes some of the toughest enemies in the game a mere nuisance.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:53 pm

There is a good Solo Ranger/Cleric guide on GameFaqs that has a lot of insightful information on this build, even if you don't plan on soloing.

At the cap in ToB, a Multi-class Ranger/Cleric will reach Ranger level 21 (Max Ranger thac0) and Cleric Level 25 (Holy Symbol). It will have 20 HLA's available overall.

This means that a multi-class Ranger/Cleric is a much more powerful warrior than a dual-classed one due to the fact that they can take Greater Whirlwind as an HLA (dual-class versions cannot because they dualled before GWW became available). The dual-classed version would be a more potent spell-caster, with 4 more level 7 spells at the cap, but very limited combat skill.

It's up to you to decide which build you want or need for your party. If you plan to take Viconia, I would suggest the multi-classed version simply because it has more offensive and tanking capability. You can memorize defensive and offensive-minded spells (such as Ironskins [<3] and Call Lightning) while Vicky memorizes buffs, heal spells, and other such things.

I'm currently playing a Ranger/Cleric multi-class, Swashbuckler, and Sorceror party and it's been a breeze. Nothing can take the R/C down.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:57 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:That is untrue. ...

No. You obviously didn't read my post (which starts with "In SoA ...") properly.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:10 pm

I don't see how a level 7 Ranger dualled to Cleric can hit better than a level 12/? Ranger/Cleric Multiclass due to the Cleric's relatively slow thac0 progression rate.

The Multi-class is constantly gaining thac0 from both it's Ranger and Cleric sides, while the dual-class starts with moderate Ranger thac0 at level 7 and doesn't get much better after it duals.

Like I said, choose either multi or dual depending on what you need in your party; a tank, or a healer.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:27 am

Comparison at 2,950,000 XP:
Multiclass ranger12/cleric14: Base thac0 9
Dualclass ranger7/cleric20: Base thac0 8

A cleric needs 3 cleric levels ( = 675,000 XP) for improving thaco by 2
A r/c needs 2 ranger levels (= 1,200,000 XP since multiclass) for improving thac0 by 2, nearly twice as much, the multiclass doesn't gain thac0 from the cleric side at all.

Another big combat benefit of the dualclass is the casting level of the self-buffs. Casting level 20 instead of 14 means 3 extra layers of iron skins and extra +2 on str,dex and con for casting DUHM, ...

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:16 am

I am playing my first Ranger dualled to Cleric and was surprised to get druid spells - I dualled at lvl 14 ranger (I think) which wasted the axe of the unyielding and other edged weapons, but with the flail of ages slowing enemies and obtaining immunity to level drain through the amulet/mace of disruption (upgraded with illithium) - lots of enemies fall.

I am level 22 cleric and just did the shade dungeon - I just walked around with AI off with 'turn undead' on - just about everything exploded without even a blow being struck. she then went on and had a fist fight with the shadow dragon, having cast insect plague on it (after Aerie had lowered its MR) IP took away the dragon's ability to heal itself - critical spell failure is what you need when going toe to toe with dragons. that is just a taste of what my R/C can start to do - I probably ought to do something that avoids me being susceptible to charm person - on the few times I have been charmed, the party has suffered badly - Aerie is usually the first to suffer (my character is a jealous b-tch, despite being CHA25!).

later on I will use Jerrod's mace for demonic opponents and when I do ToB I will want to use the (upgraded) Staff +6 some of the time.

in place of whirlwind attacks - I will use the cleric buff ?power? - there are other great spells as well as ironskins which I use already.