Really hate Dark Brotherhood Guild

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:47 pm

Sorry, double post.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:49 pm

Audiomaster4565 wrote:i guess im really failing to understand which quest you are talking about becuase i've done all dark brother hood quests and they wernt that bad except the one were you're in the churches mosselium trying to wake that guy up (i belive the dead shouldn't have to die again)

Well, if you don't mind killing innocent people - and several of them were - and if you don't mind killing all those friendly assassins in your sanctuary, and killing people that didn't attack you first, and if you don't mind

Spoiler

the way Lucien died

... in that case, nothing bad at all.

Mz_Trixter · Post by **Mz_Trixter** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:17 pm

Just keep this train of thought when doin 'em ..Just another helpless npc keeping you from beating the game. :laugh:
The game makes you, ..no forces you pretty much to bite your lip when doing those quests.

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:25 pm

I do apologize for going off topic here, but if you want to play a game that can freak you out, try Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, especially the Haunted Hotel part. All I am going to say is go in there, go to the left hand hallway, on the ground floor, and look back the way you came, and stay there for a minute, or even longer.

GrimHarvest · Post by **GrimHarvest** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:28 pm

I've always enjoyed the Dark Brotherhood quests. I don't really enjoy playing as an evil character and I felt bad about killing Baenlin and the old woman and (some) of her family but these are interesting and well thought out quests I thought. The Whodunnit? one in particular was a lot of fun.

They're worth doing just for a lot of the rewards too, The armour you get given upon joining, The Black Band, the Bloody Boots and, of course, Shadowmere are all great and I was using all of them until quite high level.

Also the game as a whole is quite a lonely one without followers or henchmen etc and I felt that, unlike the other guilds, they seemed like a family and one I wanted to be a part of. The purification quest was one I had a lot of trouble with and genuinely upset me.

I tend to finish the Dark Brotherhood quests as soon as I can, then all of the infamy points I accrued are wiped clean when I start the Knights of The Nine. Plus if I don't do them before the knights quest then I can't do them without losing the ability to wear the knights armour.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:47 pm

Also the game as a whole is quite a lonely one without followers or henchmen etc and I felt that, unlike the other guilds, they seemed like a family and one I wanted to be a part of. The purification quest was one I had a lot of trouble with and genuinely upset me.

I totally agree with your sentiment. The DB really did give you a sense of belonging to a family. I actually stopped playing through the quests before the purification because I could not bring myself to do it. I was able to play a character who had the sort of background that made her an assassin... but turning her back on the only people who had ever treated her as family.. that didn't work for me.
On the upside, I have since found a mod that skips over the purification quest, and I may try it like that sometimes.

GrimHarvest · Post by **GrimHarvest** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:31 pm

dragon wench wrote:I totally agree with your sentiment. The DB really did give you a sense of belonging to a family. I actually stopped playing through the quests before the purification because I could not bring myself to do it. I was able to play a character who had the sort of background that made her an assassin... but turning her back on the only people who had ever treated her as family.. that didn't work for me.
On the upside, I have since found a mod that skips over the purification quest, and I may try it like that sometimes.

Ah I am but a humble console user. Curse you and your fun looking mods. I want the one that rebuilds Kvatch.

These day, because I know I have to end up killing them I don't form the same sort of attachment to the DB the way I did the first time I played thankfully.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:01 pm

I have no problem playing evil, if by evil, we mean some form of self-deluding selfishness, which is what all evil is when you distill down. But there's something mean, nasty and repulsive about the Dark Brotherhood quest line, and that just really turns me off. The thieves? Fine. That's evil I can handle. But the DB? No, I'll leave that to neo-cons, who deal with it so well.

The Gray Fox · Post by **The Gray Fox** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:05 am

Playing evil characters in games is the funnest thing to do!

I love doing it because it's the exact opposite of what i am and what i'm allowed to do.

Video games are meant for entertainment and they introduce you to worlds where you are free and can do things you couldn't normally do in real life. You can be a good person and help people in real life, but (well i suppose you could do this but you wouldn't get very far) you can't go around and mindlessly kill people for enjoyment and get a salary out of it!!!

The Dark Brotherhood and Theives' Guild quests were my favorite things in all of Oblivion The Elder Scrolls IV.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:06 am

I'm with Fable on this.
TG is just good fun, with very little 'real' theft involved (you can acquire enough gold for all the TG quests by taking the stuff from homes of people who have died either in other quests, or by the hands of bandits, or who are killed for being Mythic Dawn: the items have the red hand on 'em, but with the owners dead, I don't see it as real theft - maybe a moral defect on my part? - because no relatives ever turn up to claim ownership). And you don't have to kill anyone at any time.

DB is just sickening. So is part of the FG.

The Gray Fox · Post by **The Gray Fox** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:03 pm

Wow...i'm not quite getting this, when i was playing the Dark Brotherhood and the Theives' Guild, i found nothing to be sickening at all, i just thought they were fun. It's a video game...you guys are treating it like it's real life! And i didn't even know that the fighters' guild had anything sickening in it at all lol i wasn't effected by anything...i treat it as a game, and i guess i see that the most sickening things in oblivion are the funnest things in oblivion hahaha...

You guys are weird if you get scared or grossed-out by anything in this game.

lifeishell91 · Post by **lifeishell91** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:44 pm

On the upside, I have since found a mod that skips over the purification quest, and I may try it like that sometimes.

What mod is this? I'd love to give it a try.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:24 pm

The Gray Fox wrote:Wow...i'm not quite getting this, when i was playing the Dark Brotherhood and the Theives' Guild, i found nothing to be sickening at all, i just thought they were fun. It's a video game...you guys are treating it like it's real life! And i didn't even know that the fighters' guild had anything sickening in it at all lol i wasn't effected by anything...i treat it as a game, and i guess i see that the most sickening things in oblivion are the funnest things in oblivion hahaha...

You guys are weird if you get scared or grossed-out by anything in this game.

Don't be silly. Nobody is scared of pixels. 'Grossed out' is not exactly the term I would choose; 'sickened' is the word. Why? Because some of us have a moral sense of right and wrong that, even when playing games, doesn't get chucked out the window; there are some things I might do in real life, and some things I would find impossible to do, because I would throw up my guts all over the place.
I dislike theft, but I can imagine myself indulging in a little petty theft if the need were great enough - to feed my family for example - so the TG thieving, such as it is, doesn't worry me unduly. I like the TG for all the sneaking around and lockpicking and stuff, and trying not to be seen AT ALL when doing the quests: it's a challenge I enjoy a lot.

Murder I can't stomach. Murdering the helpless, the innocent, and even the members of the 'family' of the DB (not good guys at all!), is something I'd sooner die myself, than do in real life. How can it be 'fun' to go against every moral principle you hold, even in a game?

And in case you're wondering: NO! I'm not in the least degree religious. I'm a total ANTItheist, in fact. I just have principles I can't chuck aside.

The Gray Fox · Post by **The Gray Fox** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:39 pm

I find murdering the helpless and all that fun because well, it's a thing i can't do in real life so it's interesting to let the evil and demons inside of me keep themselves entertained without doing any harm to anyone...plus...

IT'S A GAME!!!!!

dude all this ruthless killing and creepiness of the DB is what makes me love this game.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:49 pm

lifeishell91 wrote:What mod is this? I'd love to give it a try.

You can get it [url="http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=4009"]here[/url]

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:50 pm

The Gray Fox wrote:IT'S A GAME!!!!!

A little context.

You weren't questioned on why you liked the DB, remember? You first wrote:

You guys are weird if you get scared or grossed-out by anything in this game.

So, you were attacking others for their views. Not only that, but you employed a poor "straw man" argument, substituting something that made no sense at all for the reasons of people you didn't agree with.

If you didn't like the response you got after all that, you have nothing to complain about except your own remarks.

Now, let's all carry on with the regular discussion--without attacks on other person's responses.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:51 pm

Um... can I say just ONE rude thing to Grey Fox, Fable?.... No?

Aw!... :laugh:

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:56 pm

No, especially since I removed a rude response of his, too.

To get things back more or less on course: in the opinion of those who dislike playing the DB because of moral issues, what would have to be done to make it a choice you'd feel comfortable with?

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:22 pm

fable wrote: To get things back more or less on course: in the opinion of those who dislike playing the DB because of moral issues, what would have to be done to make it a choice you'd feel comfortable with?

For me, as I mentioned, the big hurdle was the purification, until that point I was fine, but that made me stop my progress in the DB. I was role playing a character who had been horribly abused and she was a psychological mess. This was a fascinating experience because I really had to step outside of myself; it was like learning a role, much as an actor would. So, in that role, I was able to play the fractured sort of personality who could kill.... However, the DB became her family... and the purification was simply a step too far.

Another thing that would have helped me further would have been the removal of those quests where totally innocent individuals were killed. A lot of the DB hits are for NPCs who pretty much have it coming to them, so there was a certain ability of being able to justify extinguishing life. But... some of those quests... like the entire family (which I never did because I was stopped by what came before).. I don't know. That, I think, requires the mindset of a psychopath. I can play "tortured and dark," but I can't play an entirely cold-blooded killer.

And it is too bad, because in terms of writing and sheer quest design, the DB is probably the best guild in the game. In my view anyway.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:39 pm

fable wrote: No, especially since I removed a rude response of his, too.

I thought he must've done something like that ... ah, well. :laugh:

fable wrote:To get things back more or less on course: in the opinion of those who dislike playing the DB because of moral issues, what would have to be done to make it a choice you'd feel comfortable with?

Hm. Now that's hard. I think I pretty well agree with dragon wench: killing innocents is way outside my comfort zone. Killing genuine 'baddies' doesn't bother me.
Also, the 'purification' is outside my comfort zone, because even though none of them can in any way be regarded as 'innocent', if you talk to them you discover all have a background that led them to become DB, and to regard it as 'family'. They are also likeable, in an odd sort of way - even the vampire; and they actually TRUST each other, and trust YOUR char - and how can you violate that trust? Their characters are only lightly sketched, but the sketching is very well done, imo, because it gives them each a history, and thus they are more like real people.

And yes, the storyline IS very interesting. Much more so than the other Guilds - though TG is pretty good, imo - so it's a pity, even if it is an important the story, to include innocents. Remove that element, and it would be playable I think.
And remove that element from the one part of the FG, and that would be fine, too.