Ideal team, Final stats & Hints... (Spoilers)
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LastDanceSaloon
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LastDanceSaloon
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:59 pm
- Contact:
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LastDanceSaloon
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- Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:59 pm
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Trials of the Luremaster
This expansion was more fun than the one it expands from. Some major improvements include the Bags of Holding, they're ideal, though I don't know why they cant hold Armour? Also, the trader in the game couldn't identify Wands, Potions and Tomes, which was a bit annoying. Some great new weaponry was made available and a couple of characters did improve their inventory. Funny how the main fighter is still wearing the Wolf Amulet from the very first stage of Kuldahar, even after every other level available in the game
. A couple of characters were able to increase their strength at last to 18 and one finaly managed to increase their wisdom to 20 on return to Lonelywood. One of the funniest new item was a helmet which increased intelligence. Ironically, I had no-one better to give it to than the Dwarf Fighter, taking her to 19!
All in all, this game was much more team orientated which made for much more fun. I can't remember a single phase of the game which didn't require some of the skills of all the characters at some point in the level for which their presence was crucial. Again, only two conflicts in the game required re-load and re-load to get the idea of what was needed to defat the bad guy and move on. The first one was where 2 Beholders trapped me on the second floor of the Keep. I was about to give in, their death dealing was incredible and it seemed no matter what I did, my entire team was being zapped quicker than I could fire of an Arrow or two. The other time was during the last battle, which required 4 loads to figure out what was going on. I thought for a minute the Luremaster was just going to summon Heroes forever, but eventually realised they do eventually run out.
Again, this team seemed to get by quite well all round, and though many battles ended with at least 1 death, especially in the green Gem Hunting dungeons, but with 2 clerics there was normally one on hand at the end to make everything OK very quickly. I was hoping I wouldn't ever lose either of my 2 front fighters as they both had Mithral Armour and Protection items, so they couldn't even die once, and luckily neither did except in the two battles mentioned.
I think it takes quite a bit of game knowledge to complete this expansion without too many problems, but once you are fully competent with your characters it should provide just about the right amount of edge of the seat action. Especially nice is that my team managed to acquire over 350,000gp from this expansion, which is more than the entire original game. Biggest hint for this game is too stock well up on high powered Arrows, there are virtually no drops, and you'll need a full inventory before entering the lock-in phase. Also make sure you have plenty of fire creation items, from potions to Arrows, Bullets, Spells ans maybe even weapons. You'll also need some fairly powerful area effect spells, both defensive and offensive. I'm not sure I could have done the Gem hunt without Level 7 Cleric Spells (and a +4 hammer wielding Dwarf).
This expansion was more fun than the one it expands from. Some major improvements include the Bags of Holding, they're ideal, though I don't know why they cant hold Armour? Also, the trader in the game couldn't identify Wands, Potions and Tomes, which was a bit annoying. Some great new weaponry was made available and a couple of characters did improve their inventory. Funny how the main fighter is still wearing the Wolf Amulet from the very first stage of Kuldahar, even after every other level available in the game
. A couple of characters were able to increase their strength at last to 18 and one finaly managed to increase their wisdom to 20 on return to Lonelywood. One of the funniest new item was a helmet which increased intelligence. Ironically, I had no-one better to give it to than the Dwarf Fighter, taking her to 19! All in all, this game was much more team orientated which made for much more fun. I can't remember a single phase of the game which didn't require some of the skills of all the characters at some point in the level for which their presence was crucial. Again, only two conflicts in the game required re-load and re-load to get the idea of what was needed to defat the bad guy and move on. The first one was where 2 Beholders trapped me on the second floor of the Keep. I was about to give in, their death dealing was incredible and it seemed no matter what I did, my entire team was being zapped quicker than I could fire of an Arrow or two. The other time was during the last battle, which required 4 loads to figure out what was going on. I thought for a minute the Luremaster was just going to summon Heroes forever, but eventually realised they do eventually run out.
Again, this team seemed to get by quite well all round, and though many battles ended with at least 1 death, especially in the green Gem Hunting dungeons, but with 2 clerics there was normally one on hand at the end to make everything OK very quickly. I was hoping I wouldn't ever lose either of my 2 front fighters as they both had Mithral Armour and Protection items, so they couldn't even die once, and luckily neither did except in the two battles mentioned.
I think it takes quite a bit of game knowledge to complete this expansion without too many problems, but once you are fully competent with your characters it should provide just about the right amount of edge of the seat action. Especially nice is that my team managed to acquire over 350,000gp from this expansion, which is more than the entire original game. Biggest hint for this game is too stock well up on high powered Arrows, there are virtually no drops, and you'll need a full inventory before entering the lock-in phase. Also make sure you have plenty of fire creation items, from potions to Arrows, Bullets, Spells ans maybe even weapons. You'll also need some fairly powerful area effect spells, both defensive and offensive. I'm not sure I could have done the Gem hunt without Level 7 Cleric Spells (and a +4 hammer wielding Dwarf).
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LastDanceSaloon
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Basic Hints and Methods
Having now completed Icewind Dale I on at least two occasions and both expansions one and a half times and once respectively, I can now relay the basic guide which should help anyone complete this game with even a normal average rag tag team.
Firstly: Tactics and strategy. My favorite PC games have both been strategy games (I only found this out about two days ago while researching games from my past on-line in Wikipedia). They are Myth: The Fallen Lords (Like an RPG but with a set mini army given to you each level (like Mario levels), like defending a hilltop with Knights and Dwarfs from Orc invaders etc. The other was Medieval: Total War which had less fantastical creatures but plenty of Knights on a big battlefield.
I read on these boards how someone felt like Icewind Dale was actually a strategy based RPG, and I have to agree. You are not specialising one single character into a hero, but are given six to develop and organise through each and every encounter. It soon becomes obvious that most of the battles with monsters require combination actions from at least 2 team members in order to neatly advance to the next stage. A bit like the show Mission Impossible where the leader selects his team at the start depending on the mission. From you first battle with the weakest Goblins to the Final confrontations in Dorn's Deep the game is throwing challenges which help you to develop these individually combined team skills.
It is possible to have a team of 6 Mages or 6 Bards or 6 Fighters, etc, but this will prove counter productive as the game dictates a varied team. It encourages a team of variety by only giving out very small numbers of special equipment for each class. There are only so many Mage spells in the game and rarely more than 2 of any one spell, so if you had 6 Mages then they would have like 3 spells each by half way through the game. The only one that is kind of possible is 6 Fighter class characters, but even then the game will force you to diversify most of them into ranged attack, so you might aswell have chosen a couple of Rangers anyway for better ranged bonuses. The game is also very stingy with its healing potions. It's not one of those games where every other drop is a major HP bottle, there's like 3 drops PER LEVEL, so you cant just have a fighter guzzling these every other battle until the bad guy drops. Hence you might aswell chuck in a Cleric or Druid to do the healing. Another way is to dual-class everyone into a fighter/something, but you're still diversifying.
I have also known of people who have completed the game with only 1 character. The 2 extremes I saw was one guy making it after 1884 game days (about 4 times longer than my team of six) or another guy who did it in about 30 game days by just sneaking past everything in stealth mode and basically ignoring the game aspect (and this requires lots of pre-knowledge anyway, not to mention re-loads).
So Icewind Dale is about playing the game and learning how best to handle six varied characters in many different challenge situations set by the game creators. The game is designed for any variety of character's stats, so don't be too beat up if you get these wrong to begin with, but more of that later.
Continued in following post...
Having now completed Icewind Dale I on at least two occasions and both expansions one and a half times and once respectively, I can now relay the basic guide which should help anyone complete this game with even a normal average rag tag team.
Firstly: Tactics and strategy. My favorite PC games have both been strategy games (I only found this out about two days ago while researching games from my past on-line in Wikipedia). They are Myth: The Fallen Lords (Like an RPG but with a set mini army given to you each level (like Mario levels), like defending a hilltop with Knights and Dwarfs from Orc invaders etc. The other was Medieval: Total War which had less fantastical creatures but plenty of Knights on a big battlefield.
I read on these boards how someone felt like Icewind Dale was actually a strategy based RPG, and I have to agree. You are not specialising one single character into a hero, but are given six to develop and organise through each and every encounter. It soon becomes obvious that most of the battles with monsters require combination actions from at least 2 team members in order to neatly advance to the next stage. A bit like the show Mission Impossible where the leader selects his team at the start depending on the mission. From you first battle with the weakest Goblins to the Final confrontations in Dorn's Deep the game is throwing challenges which help you to develop these individually combined team skills.
It is possible to have a team of 6 Mages or 6 Bards or 6 Fighters, etc, but this will prove counter productive as the game dictates a varied team. It encourages a team of variety by only giving out very small numbers of special equipment for each class. There are only so many Mage spells in the game and rarely more than 2 of any one spell, so if you had 6 Mages then they would have like 3 spells each by half way through the game. The only one that is kind of possible is 6 Fighter class characters, but even then the game will force you to diversify most of them into ranged attack, so you might aswell have chosen a couple of Rangers anyway for better ranged bonuses. The game is also very stingy with its healing potions. It's not one of those games where every other drop is a major HP bottle, there's like 3 drops PER LEVEL, so you cant just have a fighter guzzling these every other battle until the bad guy drops. Hence you might aswell chuck in a Cleric or Druid to do the healing. Another way is to dual-class everyone into a fighter/something, but you're still diversifying.
I have also known of people who have completed the game with only 1 character. The 2 extremes I saw was one guy making it after 1884 game days (about 4 times longer than my team of six) or another guy who did it in about 30 game days by just sneaking past everything in stealth mode and basically ignoring the game aspect (and this requires lots of pre-knowledge anyway, not to mention re-loads).
So Icewind Dale is about playing the game and learning how best to handle six varied characters in many different challenge situations set by the game creators. The game is designed for any variety of character's stats, so don't be too beat up if you get these wrong to begin with, but more of that later.
Continued in following post...
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LastDanceSaloon
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Secondly: Everything that looks like it's there for a reason probably means it's going to be useful at some point in the game, so try not to sell everything you get and make sure you identify and read every instruction on a special item's info screen (by right clicking on the item in your inventory).
The most famous such item in this game is Conlon's Hammer. You are awarded this just when you start finding lots of magical items. It's only +1 though and only deals 2-5 damage. Harrumph! you might think, I'll keep all my fighters using these big Two Handed Swords that deal 2-13 damage! However, you'll notice the description states the Hammer is +4 versus Iron Golems, and the shops will only give you 1000 measly gold pieces for it. But then... How many Iron Golems can there be? Well, it's a quest prize, seemingly useless, but very powerful against a specific creature with a discouragement to sell at a low price, the clues should be there. Make sure one of you fighters is proficient with Hammers! And just keep that baby in you inventory throughout the entire game or until you find another +4 hammer. Hammers are really useless weapons in this game, for the most part, but then all of a sudden vital for that one or two utterly crucial encounter when not even Malavon's rage puts a dent in a particularly tough bad guy.
Likewise I've read of people complaining that they get to the First Nightmare Big Boss Yxunomei and have no magical weapons that can hit her. How is this possible? This is the whole point of the two +2 1-Handed Swords you find in the levels above, one of which is again linked to a NPC character from Easthaven - Erevain's Broad Sword. If you're lead tank Fighter isn't in possession of this item and proficient in Long Swords then your not really paying attention to the clues.
There's essentially 5 levels to the game and, surprise surprise, there's 5 levels of weapon from non-magical, to +1, then +2 then +3 and +4. There are a couple of special weapons which offer +5 and above, but they are not at all necessary. At the end of my game they all had +4s and these were more than adequate. I would argue that the Long Sword of Action +4 was actually a better weapon than the free gift at the end of the game of a +5, though that is just personal choice by that stage, it makes no difference to your damage inflicting capabilities.
The game offers mainly Long Swords and Axes (1 handed) for the fighters and Maces for the Paladins and Clerics and Bows/slings/crossbows for ranged attack and about 6 Mage spells per level. Everything else has about 1 drop every other level. But then who's going to specialise in Halberds? You get big money for selling the magical weapons, and these odd drops like a spear +3 or Halberd +2 at random points are fun reads and big sellers. Again, if you half way through and are still specialising in these items then you're not really picking up the hints. There is just enough Two-Handed Swords for one very patient Fighter to bother specialising in this area. But then you can't have a shield. Again, you should be addicted to shields very early on and they tend to rise at one level behind the magic level of the one handed weapons.
Continued in following post...
The most famous such item in this game is Conlon's Hammer. You are awarded this just when you start finding lots of magical items. It's only +1 though and only deals 2-5 damage. Harrumph! you might think, I'll keep all my fighters using these big Two Handed Swords that deal 2-13 damage! However, you'll notice the description states the Hammer is +4 versus Iron Golems, and the shops will only give you 1000 measly gold pieces for it. But then... How many Iron Golems can there be? Well, it's a quest prize, seemingly useless, but very powerful against a specific creature with a discouragement to sell at a low price, the clues should be there. Make sure one of you fighters is proficient with Hammers! And just keep that baby in you inventory throughout the entire game or until you find another +4 hammer. Hammers are really useless weapons in this game, for the most part, but then all of a sudden vital for that one or two utterly crucial encounter when not even Malavon's rage puts a dent in a particularly tough bad guy.
Likewise I've read of people complaining that they get to the First Nightmare Big Boss Yxunomei and have no magical weapons that can hit her. How is this possible? This is the whole point of the two +2 1-Handed Swords you find in the levels above, one of which is again linked to a NPC character from Easthaven - Erevain's Broad Sword. If you're lead tank Fighter isn't in possession of this item and proficient in Long Swords then your not really paying attention to the clues.
There's essentially 5 levels to the game and, surprise surprise, there's 5 levels of weapon from non-magical, to +1, then +2 then +3 and +4. There are a couple of special weapons which offer +5 and above, but they are not at all necessary. At the end of my game they all had +4s and these were more than adequate. I would argue that the Long Sword of Action +4 was actually a better weapon than the free gift at the end of the game of a +5, though that is just personal choice by that stage, it makes no difference to your damage inflicting capabilities.
The game offers mainly Long Swords and Axes (1 handed) for the fighters and Maces for the Paladins and Clerics and Bows/slings/crossbows for ranged attack and about 6 Mage spells per level. Everything else has about 1 drop every other level. But then who's going to specialise in Halberds? You get big money for selling the magical weapons, and these odd drops like a spear +3 or Halberd +2 at random points are fun reads and big sellers. Again, if you half way through and are still specialising in these items then you're not really picking up the hints. There is just enough Two-Handed Swords for one very patient Fighter to bother specialising in this area. But then you can't have a shield. Again, you should be addicted to shields very early on and they tend to rise at one level behind the magic level of the one handed weapons.
Continued in following post...
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LastDanceSaloon
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Thirdly: Character limitations. Once you have selected your varied team, the game will decide how battle friendly they are. There is only so far you can develop each class in certain fields. This is the game hinting that you play each character properly.
For example, my final battle team had both a Cleric and a Fighter with about the same Armour Class -5 to -7 (-7 to -9 after a buff spell) and both had a +4 weapon. On paper it would suggest you could send either into attack for a similar result. But this is not so. If you delve deeper into the rules, and most don't, you'll find that the Fighter has been awarded much better Thac0 (attack hitability stats) than the cleric each time they have both advanced an equal level. So the fighter has ended with a Thac0 of 1 (closest to naught the best, minuses ideal) but the Cleric is still languishing at 8. Also the Fighter has been awarded an extra attack per round for weapon specialism, something the Cleric is not allowed to do.
So, again, the game is hinting that you learn how to use the character mostly for what they are designed for. Keep your Cleric at the back/middle in a defensive support role and put the fighter at the brunt/exciting end.
Likewise, your thief and mage will drive you mad at how easily they die in combat and cant even hold up defensively. They both have major weapon and Armour restrictions which prohibit even the merest suggestion of battle fitness. Again, you should quickly be able to pick up the clues to this and structure your party's battle formations accordingly and figure out the special skills these characters have to avoid battles, fight from a distance or act as the run-around for you ranged attack etc.
Continued in following post...
For example, my final battle team had both a Cleric and a Fighter with about the same Armour Class -5 to -7 (-7 to -9 after a buff spell) and both had a +4 weapon. On paper it would suggest you could send either into attack for a similar result. But this is not so. If you delve deeper into the rules, and most don't, you'll find that the Fighter has been awarded much better Thac0 (attack hitability stats) than the cleric each time they have both advanced an equal level. So the fighter has ended with a Thac0 of 1 (closest to naught the best, minuses ideal) but the Cleric is still languishing at 8. Also the Fighter has been awarded an extra attack per round for weapon specialism, something the Cleric is not allowed to do.
So, again, the game is hinting that you learn how to use the character mostly for what they are designed for. Keep your Cleric at the back/middle in a defensive support role and put the fighter at the brunt/exciting end.
Likewise, your thief and mage will drive you mad at how easily they die in combat and cant even hold up defensively. They both have major weapon and Armour restrictions which prohibit even the merest suggestion of battle fitness. Again, you should quickly be able to pick up the clues to this and structure your party's battle formations accordingly and figure out the special skills these characters have to avoid battles, fight from a distance or act as the run-around for you ranged attack etc.
Continued in following post...
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LastDanceSaloon
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Fourthly: Impossible quests. Sometimes the game will put you at a complete dead end. You'll have killed all the monsters, spoken to everyone twice and still just find yourself at a locked door with no way of continuing the game. This is perfectly normal and even catches out seasoned pro's at RPGs in every RPG they play.
In these circumstances GO ON-LINE and look for the answer. It's not cheating and is often something which looked fun and cool to a designer, but doesn't really work in practice. A great example of this in Icewind Dale is the dreaded "Levers" Tiny little levers which are hidden in rooms for which you have been given zero clue as to their existence nor any kind of training that these are what you should be looking for. There's 1 famous one in the main game and at least 1 famous one in The Tials of the Luremaster expansion game. This is why they developed a patch for example in the expansion which allows you to highlight all "touchable items in a room by pressing the ALT key on your keyboard.
Continued in following post....
In these circumstances GO ON-LINE and look for the answer. It's not cheating and is often something which looked fun and cool to a designer, but doesn't really work in practice. A great example of this in Icewind Dale is the dreaded "Levers" Tiny little levers which are hidden in rooms for which you have been given zero clue as to their existence nor any kind of training that these are what you should be looking for. There's 1 famous one in the main game and at least 1 famous one in The Tials of the Luremaster expansion game. This is why they developed a patch for example in the expansion which allows you to highlight all "touchable items in a room by pressing the ALT key on your keyboard.
Continued in following post....
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LastDanceSaloon
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Fifthly: Impossible monsters. Sometimes the game will throw a battle at you which seems impossible. Everyone dies in seconds and you have to re-load and try again. Don't be alarmed, this is perfectly normal.
There are two main areas where this happens. When you are forced into battle from a dialogue cut-scene and when you are facing end of level bad guys (the ones with all the magic and henchmen).
Cut scenes: When you first enter a room/level, when you are facing the Big end of level bad guys.
General end of level bad guys you just stumble across.
In both cases one reload is often enough to give you the pre-knowledge enough to perform three times better in the next try. So, depending on the quality of the bad guy, up to four re-loads is perfectly understandable. More than that and you are doing something tactically wrong which you haven't taken hints from in earlier encounters.
Generally, with the Big bad bosses, you take out the henchmen then the big guy, but do the opposite with the random end of level bad guys by taking out the leader then finishing off the small fry. With the entry to a new level hoards you should soon get used to pausing the second the screen permits and casting an immediate area effect spell, defensive and buffering from a Cleric or offensive and hindering from a Mage/Druid.
You will encounter the odd battle which seems virtually impossible. If this isn't a result of not following the game hints, then there is also the chance that it is a random issue generated by the infinity engine. Just keep reloading the game until you get lucky. My example of this was with the Beholders who fire death rays at two a second. I just kept reloading until it finally attacked one of my summoned Skeletons first rather than a team member for example. It's choice seemed very random in this respect.
Finally:
Always be sure to stock lots of incendiaries. Although the final bad guy is basically immune to fire, there are many creatures along the way that can only be damaged by fire, so, whereas most games make you hoard HP and Mana potions, in this one you will need to hoard Potions of fire (and potions of speed), always keep at least 40 Fire Arrows for emergency (don't get tempted to use them in random tough battles), 40 Fire Bullets, any flame bolts you happen to find, memorise as many fire spells as possible and maybe even carry a spare weapon that deals 25% to 50% chance of fire strike in addition to slashing/piercing/crushing ability should you be lucky enough to come across one.
And if you come across a weapon that says +2 but +5 versus Good, remember, you won't be fighting much that's classed "Good". It's a ticket to 20,000 gold pieces, take the obvious hints!
Hope this was helpful!
There are two main areas where this happens. When you are forced into battle from a dialogue cut-scene and when you are facing end of level bad guys (the ones with all the magic and henchmen).
Cut scenes: When you first enter a room/level, when you are facing the Big end of level bad guys.
General end of level bad guys you just stumble across.
In both cases one reload is often enough to give you the pre-knowledge enough to perform three times better in the next try. So, depending on the quality of the bad guy, up to four re-loads is perfectly understandable. More than that and you are doing something tactically wrong which you haven't taken hints from in earlier encounters.
Generally, with the Big bad bosses, you take out the henchmen then the big guy, but do the opposite with the random end of level bad guys by taking out the leader then finishing off the small fry. With the entry to a new level hoards you should soon get used to pausing the second the screen permits and casting an immediate area effect spell, defensive and buffering from a Cleric or offensive and hindering from a Mage/Druid.
You will encounter the odd battle which seems virtually impossible. If this isn't a result of not following the game hints, then there is also the chance that it is a random issue generated by the infinity engine. Just keep reloading the game until you get lucky. My example of this was with the Beholders who fire death rays at two a second. I just kept reloading until it finally attacked one of my summoned Skeletons first rather than a team member for example. It's choice seemed very random in this respect.
Finally:
Always be sure to stock lots of incendiaries. Although the final bad guy is basically immune to fire, there are many creatures along the way that can only be damaged by fire, so, whereas most games make you hoard HP and Mana potions, in this one you will need to hoard Potions of fire (and potions of speed), always keep at least 40 Fire Arrows for emergency (don't get tempted to use them in random tough battles), 40 Fire Bullets, any flame bolts you happen to find, memorise as many fire spells as possible and maybe even carry a spare weapon that deals 25% to 50% chance of fire strike in addition to slashing/piercing/crushing ability should you be lucky enough to come across one.
And if you come across a weapon that says +2 but +5 versus Good, remember, you won't be fighting much that's classed "Good". It's a ticket to 20,000 gold pieces, take the obvious hints!
Hope this was helpful!
It's really interesting to see how different your game playing style is compared to mine.
You obviously enjoyed getting hard battles which require strategy, metagaming and reloading. I guess you wouldn't have had that much fun with an ultra powerful party.
I prefer starting with a very powerful party so I can try to adventure through the game without dying or at least reloading as rarely as possible. The tension and roleplaying feeling is far deeper if every lost battles hurts.
If dying, reloading and using metagaming knowledge gets common you just don't get the same roleplaying feeling.
When I played the game for the first time I needed a total of about 5-10 reloads because of death in battles (and a few because of failed scroll scribing) in the game including both expansions. (I didn't use any magic ammo or potions btw.)
I guess my first gaming experience wasn't as long and challenging as yours this way but the feeling was deeper.
For the strategic challenge I played HoF solos afterwards.
You obviously enjoyed getting hard battles which require strategy, metagaming and reloading. I guess you wouldn't have had that much fun with an ultra powerful party.
I prefer starting with a very powerful party so I can try to adventure through the game without dying or at least reloading as rarely as possible. The tension and roleplaying feeling is far deeper if every lost battles hurts.
If dying, reloading and using metagaming knowledge gets common you just don't get the same roleplaying feeling.
When I played the game for the first time I needed a total of about 5-10 reloads because of death in battles (and a few because of failed scroll scribing) in the game including both expansions. (I didn't use any magic ammo or potions btw.)
I guess my first gaming experience wasn't as long and challenging as yours this way but the feeling was deeper.
For the strategic challenge I played HoF solos afterwards.
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LastDanceSaloon
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Icewind Dale II (or 2, lol)
Riiiiighty. Erm, OK, no idea where your reading your information... again... but er, thanks for contributing!! Nice to know people pop in from time to time!
Just finished Icewind Dale II for the second time with pretty much the same party as I just finished Icewind Dale I with. I have to agree with a lot of other people and concur that Icewind Dale II is almost a completely different game to Icewind Dale I. Just about the only similarity was some of the settings and the look of the team of 6 and how they sounded. Other than that and I was playing a completely new game with completely different methods but similar results. Kmonster will be glad to know that I only reloaded I think one battle (because I'd left my sword in an Alcemical Laboratory Table by mistake) and suffered very few deaths.
I have no idea if I should post this stuff on the Icewind Dale II bord rather than here, but in case anyone stumbles upon my posts while playing the series in general, it would make sense to have all the stuff on one blog type posting thread thingy.
The games are so completely different I'll have a little think before I ramble further, but I'll post final pre-lock-in big boss player stats later then do some analytical ease of play gaming methods and tips.
Riiiiighty. Erm, OK, no idea where your reading your information... again... but er, thanks for contributing!! Nice to know people pop in from time to time!
Just finished Icewind Dale II for the second time with pretty much the same party as I just finished Icewind Dale I with. I have to agree with a lot of other people and concur that Icewind Dale II is almost a completely different game to Icewind Dale I. Just about the only similarity was some of the settings and the look of the team of 6 and how they sounded. Other than that and I was playing a completely new game with completely different methods but similar results. Kmonster will be glad to know that I only reloaded I think one battle (because I'd left my sword in an Alcemical Laboratory Table by mistake) and suffered very few deaths.
I have no idea if I should post this stuff on the Icewind Dale II bord rather than here, but in case anyone stumbles upon my posts while playing the series in general, it would make sense to have all the stuff on one blog type posting thread thingy.
The games are so completely different I'll have a little think before I ramble further, but I'll post final pre-lock-in big boss player stats later then do some analytical ease of play gaming methods and tips.
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LastDanceSaloon
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Final Stats for Icewind Dale II
So, my final, pre-Isiar and Madae team looked like this (gold value also calculated):
Game time: 161 days and 9 hours.
No significant deaths so no team replacement or amendments (see cleric hints after the stats for details)
Character 1:
Mr. H. Fighter - Human, Lawful Good, Male
AC 28 +5 vs Missiles, HP 250, Level 17, exp 137,713
Attack Roll 32/27/22/17, Attacks 4, Damage Bonus +2, Damage Potential 17-29
Saving Throws: Fortitude 20, Reflex 16, Will 16
Strength 26, Dexterity 18, Constitution 18, Intelligence 3, Wisdom 16 Charisma 1
Best Kill - Thorasskuss, No. of Kills 553, Kills 28% of party
Zuvembie (Armour) +6 (+5 max Dex), Helmet, Large Shield +2, Cloak of Protection +2, Amulet of Protection +1, Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise, Ring of Freedom of Movement, Ring of Protection +3, Little Giant (belt), Boots of Avoidance, Long Sword of Frost +5.
Bag of Holding, Mercenary Sack, Captain Pudu's Key, Holy Might Potion, Potion of Remove Curse, Potion of Storm Giant Strength x3, Potion of Frost Giant Strength x3, Potion of Invulnerability x2, Spirit Essence x11.
Total Value of Items Held - 143,396gp
Character 2:
Mrs. D. Fighter - Shield Dwarf, Neutral Good, Female
AC 29 +4 vs Missiles, HP 267, Level 17, exp 137,105
Attack Roll 30/25/20/15, Attacks 4, Damage Bonus +2 Damage Potential 13-20
Saving Throws: Fortitude 19, Reflex 13, Will 15
Strength 22, Dexterity 18, Constitution 20, Intelligence 3, Wisdom 18, Charisma 1
Best Kill - Crystal Golem, No. of Kills 522, Kills 26% of party
Mithral Field Plate Armour +2 +10 (+2 max Dex), The Black Hands of Shelgoth (Helmet), Tower Shield +1 +4 vs Missiles, Hound's Tooth Collar, Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise, Ring protection +3, Ring of the Warrior, Cloak of Protection +2, Mercy Killer's Belt, Boots of the North, War Hammer +4.
Cloudkiss (an electrical throwing/melee hammer+3), Returning Throwing Hammer (+2, another electrical bonus item), Ring of Invisibility, Flask of Braehg x2, Bottle of Braehg, Potion of Invulnerability x2, Potion of Hill Giant Strength, Bark Skin Potion x2, Spirit Essence x5, Potion of Extra Healing x10, Amerite Ring, Gem Bag x4, Potion Bag.
Total Value of Items Held - 142,094gp
Character 3:
Mr. E. Ranger - Moon Elf, Lawful Good, Male
AC 23 + 4 vs Missiles, HP 216, Level 17, exp 137,407
Attack Roll 36/36/31/26/21, Attacks 5, Damage Potential 12-17
Saving Throws: Fortitude 16, Reflex 13, Will 12
Strength 20, Dexterity 23, Constitution 15, Intelligence 3, Wisdom 18 Charisma 3
Best Kill - Crystal Golem, No. of Kills 449, Kills 23% of party
Leather Armour +2 +4 (+6 max Dex), Yeti Skin Hat, Gohoin's Charm (Amulet), Boots of Speed, Ring of Freedom of Movement, Ring of Hearty Strength, Cloak of Displacement, Girdle of Beautification, Bracers of Archery, Arc of Gold (Bow +4).
Arrows +5 x150, Arrows +4 x120, Arrows of Dispelling x40, Arrows of Piercing x59, Arrows of Flame x30, Impact Arrows +1 x40, Stunning Arrows +1 x34, Corrosive Arrows +1 x34, Frost Arrows +1 x40, Holdfast Arrows x40, Everlast Arrow, Wand of Entanglement, Potion of Extra Healing x15.
Total Value of Items Held - 309,149gp
Character 4:
Mrs. H. Thief - Lightfoot Halfling, Neutral Good, Female
AC 24 +5 vs Missiles, HP 114/124, Level 17, exp 137,029
Attack Roll 27/27/22/17, Attacks 4, Damage Potential 10-13
Saving Throws: Fortitude 11, Reflex 22 (25 vs Traps), Will 10.
Strength 8, Dexterity 22, Constitution 10, Intelligence 19, Wisdom 10, Charisma 15
Best Kill - Iron Golem, No. of Kills 118, Kills 6% of party
Robe of Enfusing, Cloak of Displacement, Swing From the Masts (Bandana/hat thing), Amulet of Protection +1, Bracers of Defence +4, Arcs of Disredain (belt), Boots of Speed, Chameleon Ring of Dexterity, Tymora's Loop (Ring), Small Shield of Increased Fortitude, Sling +4.
Bullets +5 x100, Bullets +4 x80, Flaming Bullets +1 x37, Bullets of Corrosive Burst x40, Force Bullets x20, Corrosive Bullets +1 x6, Returning Frost Dart, Poisonfang (returning +2 throwing dagger), Dart +5 x40, Final word darts x9, Keen Flaming Burst Darts x20, Flaming Darts +1 x5, Darts of Infatuation +1 x15, Glass Darts x18, Short Sword +4, Wand of Lightning, Mirabel's Pendant of Knowledge, Ring of Knowing, Potion of Extra Healing x5.
Total Value of Items Held - 363,980gp
Character 5:
Mr. H. E. Cleric Battleguard of Tempus - Half Elf, Chaotic Good, Male
AC 25 +1 vs Missiles +3 vs Slashing, HP 216, Level 17, exp 136,732
Attack Roll 18/13/8, Attacks 3, Damage Potential 6-13
Saving Throws: Fortitude 19, Reflex 16, Will 21
Strength 12, Dexterity 23, Constitution 18, Intelligence 7, Wisdom 27, Charisma 4
Best Kill - Kratuuk, No. of Kills 103, Kills 5% of party
Robe of Enfusing, Cloak of Protection +2, Wyrm's Maw (helmet), Red Fang's Tomb (shield), Amulet of Protection +1, Bracers of Defence +4, Golden Girdle, Chimandrae's Slippers, Every God Ring, Ring of Freedom of Movement, Battleaxe +4.
Ring of Invisibility, Book of the Deserving, Sanctuary Wand, Scroll Case x3, Various Cleric Scrolls x76 (mostly useless, but you never know, lol).
Total Value of Items Held - 215,001gp
Character 6:
Mrs. H. Cleric Lorekeeper of Oghma- Aasimar Human, Neutral Good, Female
AC 22 +4 vs Missiles +4 vs Bludgeoning, HP 172, Level 16, exp 138,441
Attack Roll 27, Attacks 1, Damage Bonus +2, Damage Potential 12-19
Saving Throws: Fortitude 16, Reflex 11, Will 20
Strength 14, Dexterity 14, Constitution 14, Intelligence 13, Wisdom 26, Charisma 7
Best Kill - Sherincal, No. of Kills 204, Kills 10% of party
Chain of Drakkas (Armour) +7 (0 max Dex), Cloak of Displacement, Sune's Laurel of Favour, Girdle of Bluntness, Amulet of Protection +1, Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise, Boots of the North, Tyrannar's Band (ring), Ring of Protection +3, Heavy Crossbow +4.
Morningstar +4, Flank of the Virgin (shield), Howling Wolf Charm, House of Despana Insignia, Scroll Case, Various Scrolls specific to Lorekeeper Cleric x3, Bolt +5 x76, Bolt +4 x40, Bolt +3 x8, Flaming Bolts +1 x40, Corrosive Bolts +1 x40, Sparking Bolts +1 x40, Stunning Bolts +1 x40.
Total Value of Items Held - 201,366gp
Items held for all party members in sacks, cases and bags: Bottle of Wine x4, Lamp Oil x3, Potions of Extra Healing x102, Elixier of Health x20, Philter of purification x8, Mummy's Tea x5, Velna's Medicine x3, Potion of Invisibility x2, Potion of Minor Elemental Barrier x9, Potion of Magic Dispelling x4, Potion of Ghost Armour, Sanctuary Potion x5, Potion of Evil Protection x3, Potion of Master Thievery x2, Vocalise Potion x2, Potion of Firebreath x8, Potion of Magic Resistance, Potion of Shield, Potion of Freedom x3, Potion of Explosions x2, Andar Gem x24, Star Diopside Gem x42, Shandon Gem x56, Lynx Eye Gem x20, Chrysoberyl Gem x24, Aquamarine Gem x38, Horn Coral Gem x28, Bloodstone Gem x9, Moonstone Gem x9, Zoise Gem x7, Zircon Gem x9, Sphene Gem x13, Ruby Ring x2, Moonbar Gem x1, Sunstone Gem x11, Tchazar Gem x12, Iol Gem x12, Fire Agate Gem x18, Garnet Gem x11, Jasper Gem x7, Skydrop Gem x5, Emerald x5, King's Tears x1, Diamond x9, Rogue Stone x2, Star Sapphire x2, Turquoise Gem x2, Waterstar Gem x18, Black Opal x1, Pearl x12, Water Opal x2
Total Value of Shared Items: 59,289gp
Total cash of Team 1,788,276gp
Total value of Team 3,222,551gp
It's also a shame that during the final three battles you accumulate another 200,000gp's worth of items at least but never get the chance to sell them, though a couple of the items might prove useful to some parties at that late stage. Still a bit disappointed I never found any hammers or axes or morningstars +5 by the end of the game, but more of that later...
So, my final, pre-Isiar and Madae team looked like this (gold value also calculated):
Game time: 161 days and 9 hours.
No significant deaths so no team replacement or amendments (see cleric hints after the stats for details)
Character 1:
Mr. H. Fighter - Human, Lawful Good, Male
AC 28 +5 vs Missiles, HP 250, Level 17, exp 137,713
Attack Roll 32/27/22/17, Attacks 4, Damage Bonus +2, Damage Potential 17-29
Saving Throws: Fortitude 20, Reflex 16, Will 16
Strength 26, Dexterity 18, Constitution 18, Intelligence 3, Wisdom 16 Charisma 1
Best Kill - Thorasskuss, No. of Kills 553, Kills 28% of party
Zuvembie (Armour) +6 (+5 max Dex), Helmet, Large Shield +2, Cloak of Protection +2, Amulet of Protection +1, Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise, Ring of Freedom of Movement, Ring of Protection +3, Little Giant (belt), Boots of Avoidance, Long Sword of Frost +5.
Bag of Holding, Mercenary Sack, Captain Pudu's Key, Holy Might Potion, Potion of Remove Curse, Potion of Storm Giant Strength x3, Potion of Frost Giant Strength x3, Potion of Invulnerability x2, Spirit Essence x11.
Total Value of Items Held - 143,396gp
Character 2:
Mrs. D. Fighter - Shield Dwarf, Neutral Good, Female
AC 29 +4 vs Missiles, HP 267, Level 17, exp 137,105
Attack Roll 30/25/20/15, Attacks 4, Damage Bonus +2 Damage Potential 13-20
Saving Throws: Fortitude 19, Reflex 13, Will 15
Strength 22, Dexterity 18, Constitution 20, Intelligence 3, Wisdom 18, Charisma 1
Best Kill - Crystal Golem, No. of Kills 522, Kills 26% of party
Mithral Field Plate Armour +2 +10 (+2 max Dex), The Black Hands of Shelgoth (Helmet), Tower Shield +1 +4 vs Missiles, Hound's Tooth Collar, Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise, Ring protection +3, Ring of the Warrior, Cloak of Protection +2, Mercy Killer's Belt, Boots of the North, War Hammer +4.
Cloudkiss (an electrical throwing/melee hammer+3), Returning Throwing Hammer (+2, another electrical bonus item), Ring of Invisibility, Flask of Braehg x2, Bottle of Braehg, Potion of Invulnerability x2, Potion of Hill Giant Strength, Bark Skin Potion x2, Spirit Essence x5, Potion of Extra Healing x10, Amerite Ring, Gem Bag x4, Potion Bag.
Total Value of Items Held - 142,094gp
Character 3:
Mr. E. Ranger - Moon Elf, Lawful Good, Male
AC 23 + 4 vs Missiles, HP 216, Level 17, exp 137,407
Attack Roll 36/36/31/26/21, Attacks 5, Damage Potential 12-17
Saving Throws: Fortitude 16, Reflex 13, Will 12
Strength 20, Dexterity 23, Constitution 15, Intelligence 3, Wisdom 18 Charisma 3
Best Kill - Crystal Golem, No. of Kills 449, Kills 23% of party
Leather Armour +2 +4 (+6 max Dex), Yeti Skin Hat, Gohoin's Charm (Amulet), Boots of Speed, Ring of Freedom of Movement, Ring of Hearty Strength, Cloak of Displacement, Girdle of Beautification, Bracers of Archery, Arc of Gold (Bow +4).
Arrows +5 x150, Arrows +4 x120, Arrows of Dispelling x40, Arrows of Piercing x59, Arrows of Flame x30, Impact Arrows +1 x40, Stunning Arrows +1 x34, Corrosive Arrows +1 x34, Frost Arrows +1 x40, Holdfast Arrows x40, Everlast Arrow, Wand of Entanglement, Potion of Extra Healing x15.
Total Value of Items Held - 309,149gp
Character 4:
Mrs. H. Thief - Lightfoot Halfling, Neutral Good, Female
AC 24 +5 vs Missiles, HP 114/124, Level 17, exp 137,029
Attack Roll 27/27/22/17, Attacks 4, Damage Potential 10-13
Saving Throws: Fortitude 11, Reflex 22 (25 vs Traps), Will 10.
Strength 8, Dexterity 22, Constitution 10, Intelligence 19, Wisdom 10, Charisma 15
Best Kill - Iron Golem, No. of Kills 118, Kills 6% of party
Robe of Enfusing, Cloak of Displacement, Swing From the Masts (Bandana/hat thing), Amulet of Protection +1, Bracers of Defence +4, Arcs of Disredain (belt), Boots of Speed, Chameleon Ring of Dexterity, Tymora's Loop (Ring), Small Shield of Increased Fortitude, Sling +4.
Bullets +5 x100, Bullets +4 x80, Flaming Bullets +1 x37, Bullets of Corrosive Burst x40, Force Bullets x20, Corrosive Bullets +1 x6, Returning Frost Dart, Poisonfang (returning +2 throwing dagger), Dart +5 x40, Final word darts x9, Keen Flaming Burst Darts x20, Flaming Darts +1 x5, Darts of Infatuation +1 x15, Glass Darts x18, Short Sword +4, Wand of Lightning, Mirabel's Pendant of Knowledge, Ring of Knowing, Potion of Extra Healing x5.
Total Value of Items Held - 363,980gp
Character 5:
Mr. H. E. Cleric Battleguard of Tempus - Half Elf, Chaotic Good, Male
AC 25 +1 vs Missiles +3 vs Slashing, HP 216, Level 17, exp 136,732
Attack Roll 18/13/8, Attacks 3, Damage Potential 6-13
Saving Throws: Fortitude 19, Reflex 16, Will 21
Strength 12, Dexterity 23, Constitution 18, Intelligence 7, Wisdom 27, Charisma 4
Best Kill - Kratuuk, No. of Kills 103, Kills 5% of party
Robe of Enfusing, Cloak of Protection +2, Wyrm's Maw (helmet), Red Fang's Tomb (shield), Amulet of Protection +1, Bracers of Defence +4, Golden Girdle, Chimandrae's Slippers, Every God Ring, Ring of Freedom of Movement, Battleaxe +4.
Ring of Invisibility, Book of the Deserving, Sanctuary Wand, Scroll Case x3, Various Cleric Scrolls x76 (mostly useless, but you never know, lol).
Total Value of Items Held - 215,001gp
Character 6:
Mrs. H. Cleric Lorekeeper of Oghma- Aasimar Human, Neutral Good, Female
AC 22 +4 vs Missiles +4 vs Bludgeoning, HP 172, Level 16, exp 138,441
Attack Roll 27, Attacks 1, Damage Bonus +2, Damage Potential 12-19
Saving Throws: Fortitude 16, Reflex 11, Will 20
Strength 14, Dexterity 14, Constitution 14, Intelligence 13, Wisdom 26, Charisma 7
Best Kill - Sherincal, No. of Kills 204, Kills 10% of party
Chain of Drakkas (Armour) +7 (0 max Dex), Cloak of Displacement, Sune's Laurel of Favour, Girdle of Bluntness, Amulet of Protection +1, Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise, Boots of the North, Tyrannar's Band (ring), Ring of Protection +3, Heavy Crossbow +4.
Morningstar +4, Flank of the Virgin (shield), Howling Wolf Charm, House of Despana Insignia, Scroll Case, Various Scrolls specific to Lorekeeper Cleric x3, Bolt +5 x76, Bolt +4 x40, Bolt +3 x8, Flaming Bolts +1 x40, Corrosive Bolts +1 x40, Sparking Bolts +1 x40, Stunning Bolts +1 x40.
Total Value of Items Held - 201,366gp
Items held for all party members in sacks, cases and bags: Bottle of Wine x4, Lamp Oil x3, Potions of Extra Healing x102, Elixier of Health x20, Philter of purification x8, Mummy's Tea x5, Velna's Medicine x3, Potion of Invisibility x2, Potion of Minor Elemental Barrier x9, Potion of Magic Dispelling x4, Potion of Ghost Armour, Sanctuary Potion x5, Potion of Evil Protection x3, Potion of Master Thievery x2, Vocalise Potion x2, Potion of Firebreath x8, Potion of Magic Resistance, Potion of Shield, Potion of Freedom x3, Potion of Explosions x2, Andar Gem x24, Star Diopside Gem x42, Shandon Gem x56, Lynx Eye Gem x20, Chrysoberyl Gem x24, Aquamarine Gem x38, Horn Coral Gem x28, Bloodstone Gem x9, Moonstone Gem x9, Zoise Gem x7, Zircon Gem x9, Sphene Gem x13, Ruby Ring x2, Moonbar Gem x1, Sunstone Gem x11, Tchazar Gem x12, Iol Gem x12, Fire Agate Gem x18, Garnet Gem x11, Jasper Gem x7, Skydrop Gem x5, Emerald x5, King's Tears x1, Diamond x9, Rogue Stone x2, Star Sapphire x2, Turquoise Gem x2, Waterstar Gem x18, Black Opal x1, Pearl x12, Water Opal x2
Total Value of Shared Items: 59,289gp
Total cash of Team 1,788,276gp
Total value of Team 3,222,551gp
It's also a shame that during the final three battles you accumulate another 200,000gp's worth of items at least but never get the chance to sell them, though a couple of the items might prove useful to some parties at that late stage. Still a bit disappointed I never found any hammers or axes or morningstars +5 by the end of the game, but more of that later...
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LastDanceSaloon
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:59 pm
- Contact:
Lol, a tenacious genius I dunno, I've always preferred clerics spells to arcane spells in this series and I'm a huge fan of summoning in all games. The beauty of the clerics is the undead summons. While most summons vanish in a cloud of green smoke quite quickly, in Icewind Dale the undeads last for long enough to complete a whole board, so its nice to always wander about with a small army rather than just the six.
I have been pondering the merits of posting here or at the Icewind Dale II forum, but most everything I'm going to be saying is comparison analysis to Icewind Dale I, from a perspective of how the techniques learnt from the first game translate to anyone wanting to try and use the same method for the sequel. So I'm going to be mentioning Icewind Dale I probably more than II here.
I'm hoping to squeeze it all into one post, but may require 2 after this one.
Here I'll just mention a couple of irritating gripes about the sequel that I need to get off my chest before I continue:
During the final battle I'm positive the computer cheated! :speech: :laugh: From meeting Isiar and Madae to the appearance of Orrick the game deliberately prevented both my Clerics from casting any spells beyond the routine of normal battle. My characters were randomly 'stunned' for 2 or 3 rounds about 6 times, regardless of where they were standing. I'd be interested to know which spell did this and why none of my team could resist it even with massive saves (up to +25 after buffer spells) and why one of the two had so many shots with the same high level spell. Then, when everything was looking like I was ready to send in a Cleric to the area where the fighters were battling the two, one of my summons which had been converted to bad by them suddenly turned away from the battle and ran at my cleric! Proof if proof were needed that there was something in the software which made casting cleric spells initiated some kind of 'unusual' move. It's also amazing how often these 'stuns' would co-incide with the point at which a spell gets delivered.
It's OK to make it harder for the big battles, but what's the point of having characters which are made unusable by evil cheese rather than player skill.
The other annoying thing was the amount of bad guys which used improved invisibility. I encountered 4 bad guys who went invisible and made themselves only damageable by area effect spells/potion/lines of electricity. Again, it's just evil cheese and if you are unlucky enough not to have enough area effect stuff then it could easily ruin someone's game. Surely in reality a fighter could guess the area of the bad guy and at least flay in the dark, especially if you get them cornered, but no, with this spell the fighter wont even react, most frushtrating. And I thought particularly evil cheese for Isair (or was it Madae) to use it in the final battle, forcing me to battle the other one.
Anyway, back to Icewind Dale I and what small adaptations to the basic style one needs to consider in moving one's team from Icewind Dale I to Icewind Dale II
I dunno, I've always preferred clerics spells to arcane spells in this series and I'm a huge fan of summoning in all games. The beauty of the clerics is the undead summons. While most summons vanish in a cloud of green smoke quite quickly, in Icewind Dale the undeads last for long enough to complete a whole board, so its nice to always wander about with a small army rather than just the six.I have been pondering the merits of posting here or at the Icewind Dale II forum, but most everything I'm going to be saying is comparison analysis to Icewind Dale I, from a perspective of how the techniques learnt from the first game translate to anyone wanting to try and use the same method for the sequel. So I'm going to be mentioning Icewind Dale I probably more than II here.
I'm hoping to squeeze it all into one post, but may require 2 after this one.
Here I'll just mention a couple of irritating gripes about the sequel that I need to get off my chest before I continue:
During the final battle I'm positive the computer cheated! :speech: :laugh: From meeting Isiar and Madae to the appearance of Orrick the game deliberately prevented both my Clerics from casting any spells beyond the routine of normal battle. My characters were randomly 'stunned' for 2 or 3 rounds about 6 times, regardless of where they were standing. I'd be interested to know which spell did this and why none of my team could resist it even with massive saves (up to +25 after buffer spells) and why one of the two had so many shots with the same high level spell. Then, when everything was looking like I was ready to send in a Cleric to the area where the fighters were battling the two, one of my summons which had been converted to bad by them suddenly turned away from the battle and ran at my cleric! Proof if proof were needed that there was something in the software which made casting cleric spells initiated some kind of 'unusual' move. It's also amazing how often these 'stuns' would co-incide with the point at which a spell gets delivered.
It's OK to make it harder for the big battles, but what's the point of having characters which are made unusable by evil cheese rather than player skill.
The other annoying thing was the amount of bad guys which used improved invisibility. I encountered 4 bad guys who went invisible and made themselves only damageable by area effect spells/potion/lines of electricity. Again, it's just evil cheese and if you are unlucky enough not to have enough area effect stuff then it could easily ruin someone's game. Surely in reality a fighter could guess the area of the bad guy and at least flay in the dark, especially if you get them cornered, but no, with this spell the fighter wont even react, most frushtrating. And I thought particularly evil cheese for Isair (or was it Madae) to use it in the final battle, forcing me to battle the other one.
Anyway, back to Icewind Dale I and what small adaptations to the basic style one needs to consider in moving one's team from Icewind Dale I to Icewind Dale II
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LastDanceSaloon
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:59 pm
- Contact:
Adapting the team to Icewind Dale II
1) Icewind Dale I is a much shorter game than Icewind Dale II, but in game days, II is only about 1/3 the timescale. This is mainly because II is very heavy on the quests and puzzles rather than the kill till you need to rest attitude of the first game. So in part II you'll spend all a real day running around one area in 10 game days, instead of one real day per chapter of resting and fighting for 40 game days.
2) The two Clerics get the Summon Undead spell very early on in the first chapter, and this time, unlike in Icewind Dale I, they level up to more and more powerful undeads. And these undeads are always at a higher level than you or the bad guys, much higher. For example: One of your quests in the final chapter requires you to clear out a graveyard of undead monsters. One summoned Elite Boneguard Skeleton killed every single one of them while my team sat around drinking wine, and it was left uninjured at the end of the battle. Basically, from about halfway through the first chapter until Dragon's Eye, the method of summoning two Undeads (one for each Cleric) then casting Protection from evil on the party, enabled a very easy passage through the bulk of the game.
Some evil cheese disrupted this occasionally by dumping bad guys in the middle of your party when you crossed a certain point, wherever your party was located, but nothing that was life threatening.
So, whereas in Icewind Dale I the summoned undead were just trail blazers and distractions, in Icewind Dale II they became your primary fighters. It was irritating how their kills did not stat to the Cleric that summoned them however, so making my Clerics Kill Stats wholey unrealistic. My biggest killer was my summoned boneguard skeletons in Icewind Dale II.
In Icewind Dale I the main benefit of two clerics was the combined spells of curse/bless and prayer/recitation later in the game. For part II, the first one works for the first half of the first chapter but is named Bane/Bless now, but Prayer and Recitation no longer appear to stack and has less effect, hence the use of the long-term buffer spell of protection from evil which improves armour class and saves instead from the first half of the first chapter onwards.
In Icewind Dale I the Clerics do not get any area effect battle winning spells until really late in the game, in part II they get them about halfway, and as soon as you are able to cast greater command the big battles become very easy with a double dose of this spell dealt out to the attacking hoard the moment their circles turn red. At least 75% of them will fall asleep and if you are careful you can then fight them all one by one. By the time they get Powerword Hopelessness, virtually no battle is tough by numbers as about 99% of all bad guys, including the boss, will be either asleep, stunned or hopeless.
I think I had about three tough battles in Icewind Dale II, whereas in Icewind Dale I most big battles still required some thought and some lots.
3) The makers seem to have deliberately reversed the weapons available in part II. In Icewind Dale I almost every find was a long-sword or battle axe or mace. In part II almost every find is a Spear (called Polearm now and includes Halberds), Flail or Quaterstaff. I sold no end of exciting examples of these while buying most of my weapons from shops. Infact, I got no weapon improvements between my arrival in Kuldahar and the higher levels of Severed Hand, and even then some characters got no improvement.
4) The various bags of holding also reduce the game days, so instead of getting into the routine of maxing your weight allowance then going home to sell and sleep, now you just wander around until you run out of HP and spells or start to fall asleep, but mainly just to get your spells re-booted.
5) Levelling up happens much quicker in part II. Whereas in part I you end the game with abt 1,000,000 exp, in part two you end with only 150,000 but at 6 higher in levels. This enables more powerful Cleric spells very early on and makes a death in the party a tactic rather than an inconvenience as your Clerics quite soon have 4 resurrection spells to spare in a fight. Resurrection can work equal to a heal spell as it returns the character with full HP but all the bad guys are no longer attacking them. A great way to distract a pack of bad guys away from your main party.
6) Armour Class is very complicated. It's no longer about just wearing the best stat'ed armour, as neither AC nor Deflection nor stats bonuses stack, but saving throws and resistances do. Also, deflection bonuses are AC, as is Your Dexterity Bonus, but some armour has a dexterity bonus limit and oh my this is all very detailed. Basically, a ring of protection +3 and Bracers of Defence +4 and Deterity bonus +4 = +11 AC, whereas a really nice suit of armour +7 and ring of protection +3 and Dexterity Bonus of +2 = +11 AC, only an advantage of +1 AC for the really nice suit of armour versus wearing NO armour but a pair of cufflinks! Icewind Dale I was much less complicated in this respect, nice armour meant great AC advantage. In part II great armour can suddenly mean reduced AC.
7) There are NO potions of Speed in Icewind Dale II. In Icewind Dale I, potions of Speed are THE best potion. So, obviously, they have been removed. Instead you'll get potions of Ghoul Touch and never use them cos you have no idea what it does and even if you did you'd never use it cos you're busy hacking 20 hp a turn with your sword, ...er... I mean Spear.
8) My Rogue was far more active In part II because now that Charisma is very significantly linked to buying and selling and communication, I now used my Rogue for all encounters. The Cleric that was a Lorekeeper is also given the spell eagle's splendour at level 1, so you still don't even need to put all the rogue's points into Charisma, simply buff them up before sales and purchases. Just as in Icewind Dale I, I still never found a good opportunity to use the backstab feature, it just never seemed worth it, and when it did the hide skill failed like evil cheese at 100%.
9) Maxing out the stats is more openly explained at the beginning of Icewind Dale II than Icewind Dale I. You could easily spend a whole day just choosing your party and stats for Icewind Dale II, whereas in I its much less fuss and much more guesswork for the uninitiated.
10) One last side note: I read someone state that the battle with the lost followers was hard even with summoned creatures and that your summonded creatures would die in seconds. I had two undeads, two insects, a monster and an elemental along for the fight and they did just fine and that battle was particularly easy, even if it did involve two of my party members just running away a lot. (though I do remember re-loading it a lot the first time I played it years ago with a wizard instead of a second cleric).
1) Icewind Dale I is a much shorter game than Icewind Dale II, but in game days, II is only about 1/3 the timescale. This is mainly because II is very heavy on the quests and puzzles rather than the kill till you need to rest attitude of the first game. So in part II you'll spend all a real day running around one area in 10 game days, instead of one real day per chapter of resting and fighting for 40 game days.
2) The two Clerics get the Summon Undead spell very early on in the first chapter, and this time, unlike in Icewind Dale I, they level up to more and more powerful undeads. And these undeads are always at a higher level than you or the bad guys, much higher. For example: One of your quests in the final chapter requires you to clear out a graveyard of undead monsters. One summoned Elite Boneguard Skeleton killed every single one of them while my team sat around drinking wine, and it was left uninjured at the end of the battle. Basically, from about halfway through the first chapter until Dragon's Eye, the method of summoning two Undeads (one for each Cleric) then casting Protection from evil on the party, enabled a very easy passage through the bulk of the game.
Some evil cheese disrupted this occasionally by dumping bad guys in the middle of your party when you crossed a certain point, wherever your party was located, but nothing that was life threatening.
So, whereas in Icewind Dale I the summoned undead were just trail blazers and distractions, in Icewind Dale II they became your primary fighters. It was irritating how their kills did not stat to the Cleric that summoned them however, so making my Clerics Kill Stats wholey unrealistic. My biggest killer was my summoned boneguard skeletons in Icewind Dale II.
In Icewind Dale I the main benefit of two clerics was the combined spells of curse/bless and prayer/recitation later in the game. For part II, the first one works for the first half of the first chapter but is named Bane/Bless now, but Prayer and Recitation no longer appear to stack and has less effect, hence the use of the long-term buffer spell of protection from evil which improves armour class and saves instead from the first half of the first chapter onwards.
In Icewind Dale I the Clerics do not get any area effect battle winning spells until really late in the game, in part II they get them about halfway, and as soon as you are able to cast greater command the big battles become very easy with a double dose of this spell dealt out to the attacking hoard the moment their circles turn red. At least 75% of them will fall asleep and if you are careful you can then fight them all one by one. By the time they get Powerword Hopelessness, virtually no battle is tough by numbers as about 99% of all bad guys, including the boss, will be either asleep, stunned or hopeless.
I think I had about three tough battles in Icewind Dale II, whereas in Icewind Dale I most big battles still required some thought and some lots.
3) The makers seem to have deliberately reversed the weapons available in part II. In Icewind Dale I almost every find was a long-sword or battle axe or mace. In part II almost every find is a Spear (called Polearm now and includes Halberds), Flail or Quaterstaff. I sold no end of exciting examples of these while buying most of my weapons from shops. Infact, I got no weapon improvements between my arrival in Kuldahar and the higher levels of Severed Hand, and even then some characters got no improvement.
4) The various bags of holding also reduce the game days, so instead of getting into the routine of maxing your weight allowance then going home to sell and sleep, now you just wander around until you run out of HP and spells or start to fall asleep, but mainly just to get your spells re-booted.
5) Levelling up happens much quicker in part II. Whereas in part I you end the game with abt 1,000,000 exp, in part two you end with only 150,000 but at 6 higher in levels. This enables more powerful Cleric spells very early on and makes a death in the party a tactic rather than an inconvenience as your Clerics quite soon have 4 resurrection spells to spare in a fight. Resurrection can work equal to a heal spell as it returns the character with full HP but all the bad guys are no longer attacking them. A great way to distract a pack of bad guys away from your main party.
6) Armour Class is very complicated. It's no longer about just wearing the best stat'ed armour, as neither AC nor Deflection nor stats bonuses stack, but saving throws and resistances do. Also, deflection bonuses are AC, as is Your Dexterity Bonus, but some armour has a dexterity bonus limit and oh my this is all very detailed. Basically, a ring of protection +3 and Bracers of Defence +4 and Deterity bonus +4 = +11 AC, whereas a really nice suit of armour +7 and ring of protection +3 and Dexterity Bonus of +2 = +11 AC, only an advantage of +1 AC for the really nice suit of armour versus wearing NO armour but a pair of cufflinks! Icewind Dale I was much less complicated in this respect, nice armour meant great AC advantage. In part II great armour can suddenly mean reduced AC.
7) There are NO potions of Speed in Icewind Dale II. In Icewind Dale I, potions of Speed are THE best potion. So, obviously, they have been removed. Instead you'll get potions of Ghoul Touch and never use them cos you have no idea what it does and even if you did you'd never use it cos you're busy hacking 20 hp a turn with your sword, ...er... I mean Spear.
8) My Rogue was far more active In part II because now that Charisma is very significantly linked to buying and selling and communication, I now used my Rogue for all encounters. The Cleric that was a Lorekeeper is also given the spell eagle's splendour at level 1, so you still don't even need to put all the rogue's points into Charisma, simply buff them up before sales and purchases. Just as in Icewind Dale I, I still never found a good opportunity to use the backstab feature, it just never seemed worth it, and when it did the hide skill failed like evil cheese at 100%.
9) Maxing out the stats is more openly explained at the beginning of Icewind Dale II than Icewind Dale I. You could easily spend a whole day just choosing your party and stats for Icewind Dale II, whereas in I its much less fuss and much more guesswork for the uninitiated.
10) One last side note: I read someone state that the battle with the lost followers was hard even with summoned creatures and that your summonded creatures would die in seconds. I had two undeads, two insects, a monster and an elemental along for the fight and they did just fine and that battle was particularly easy, even if it did involve two of my party members just running away a lot. (though I do remember re-loading it a lot the first time I played it years ago with a wizard instead of a second cleric).