[spoilers]An absolute disaster of a game...

Ashen · Post by **Ashen** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:08 pm

... when it comes to bugs.

I stopped playing NWN II due to two game stopping bugs when it came out, so now I have MoB and the new EP so I thought I'd replay it all, or rather replay act I and then go on.

First bug - the very first shard; then came others - from the archives that wouldn't trigger the books, to the ironfist clan, then the ember bug where there is not cut scene, crashes at Old OW because I had more than one party selected ... utter nonsense!

I simply cannot believe they are incapable of fixing this game. One more time and I will just chuck in it in the rubbish bin and forget the whole thing.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:25 pm

It's a pretty disgraceful way to do it, but you HAVE to update. Instead of issuing necessary updates with the new expansions, as they SHOULD, the game producers, in their infinite wisdom, oblige you to press the update button. And updating takes a loooooong time. Best way, imo, is to install the expansions when off-line, then go on-line and press the UPDATE button.

Which is fine if your games comp is also the one you use on-line. Which mine wasn't. It is now. :laugh:

Ashen · Post by **Ashen** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:06 pm

That's just it. This puter is not the one where I have NWN II and that one is not on the net, nor will it ever be. I refuse to do it just for a game that should be fine after 2EPs! I understand old bugs, but I am having problems with the base game, that are the same as the ones I had when I played this when it came out. I won't even mention game closing on its own, game crashing etc. And it's a new computer, so requirements are not an issue. Total waste of money, but worse, it is destroying my nerves.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:50 pm

I TOTALLY understand. I felt the same way. I was fuming. Especially because the expansions screwed up the OC, and I had to uninstall them to get the OC to play properly again. I felt cheated and angry that I had wasted my money on games I couldn't play because the producers couldn't be bothered to put the updates on the expansion discs. WHY, for pete's sake? Was it too hard?

So the new games just sat there on my bookshelf laughing at me.

NO WAY was I putting my games comp on-line! I'd had WAY too much trouble with virus infections and worms and what-not with my on-line comp - like someone was deliberately bugging my machine, ya know? - I tried several different antivirus programmes, but nothing seemed to make a difference. Anyway, in the end, I found an antivirus that worked. But by that time the old comp had pretty much shot it's bolt, and I was off-line for a while.

So then, because I needed on-line access, I had to put this comp on-line, and so far have had no problem with viruses, etc... yet.

And NWN2 expansions are playing ok with the updates.

Anyway, I feel for you.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:44 pm

Mmh, I understand why you're angry, but good luck finding any games that doesn't need one or two patches these days. All the devs seem to miss something along the way.

Ashen · Post by **Ashen** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:22 pm

This is not missing something along the way - in the mean time couldn't do the bodies in Ember; Khelgar disappeared so the T bug said hello; then had to reload the Lorne arena 3 times to get it started and guess what - hello Lorne cannot be killed bug!

Now, there are bugs, this is idiotic! The only reason I am still playing is well ... am stubborn to the point of insanity. Of course all games have bugs and I think patches are normal but the sheer amount this one has, with patches making things difficult is just ... boggles the mind.

@Fljot ~ my gaming PC is brand new and I have no wish to expose it to problems. I also use it for work and well. I can't believe my luck!

Ripuanewhole · Post by **Ripuanewhole** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:56 am

My computer is reaching dinosaur status, and Norton has done a pretty good job of protecting it for the last 4 years. I've installed the game patches, and haven't had any of the problems that you are describing. If you're one of those people who just likes to complain about things than carry on... otherwise I'd suggest that you stop being so stuborn, and just do what it takes to fix the game.

Ashen · Post by **Ashen** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:11 am

And I suggest you get off your high horse and not comment when you have nothing relevant to say. And this is me being nice.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:12 am

Ripuanewhole wrote:My computer is reaching dinosaur status, and Norton has done a pretty good job of protecting it for the last 4 years. I've installed the game patches, and haven't had any of the problems that you are describing. If you're one of those people who just likes to complain about things than carry on... otherwise I'd suggest that you stop being so stuborn, and just do what it takes to fix the game.

Just because one person has not had any issues with bugs, this does not mean that the original poster is just complaining. A game that works perfectly on one spec of computer could not work properly on another identical computer simply because of a program that is installed on it. This is how sensitive computer games can be at times. This thread is to help Ashen sort out his problems and to hear from others who have experienced the same thing. If he does not wish to connect his pc to the internet, this doesn't mean that he is being stubborn. That is his decision to make, so please refrain from making unfounded judgements about other members without knowing the full situation, and think about how your post comes across before posting it.

Thanks.

Ripuanewhole · Post by **Ripuanewhole** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:59 pm

Mr. Sir,
Please correct me if I'm getting this wrong, but it appears to me that it's completely OK to bash on the desingers of this game, but it's not OK to point out when some one is refusing to take the steps needed to solve their issues with the game.

If the sole purpose of this post was to help solve the problem, than how come the title of the post is "An absolute disaster of a game..."? I'm sorry but I really like this game, and I take offence to some one bashing on the designers of this game when they aren't even willing to install the game patches which correct the very problems they are whining about.

If he isn't willing to connect to internet that's certainly his choice, but like all choices he should be willing to accept the consequences. I'd have complete respect if he came on and said "I realize that the patches would fix these problems but does any one know another way to fix it?" Instead he just ragged on the quality of the game. I'm sorry for not being politically correct, but I call that complaining.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:38 am

Ripuanewhole wrote:Mr. Sir,
Please correct me if I'm getting this wrong, but it appears to me that it's completely OK to bash on the desingers of this game, but it's not OK to point out when some one is refusing to take the steps needed to solve their issues with the game.

If the sole purpose of this post was to help solve the problem, than how come the title of the post is "An absolute disaster of a game..."? I'm sorry but I really like this game, and I take offence to some one bashing on the designers of this game when they aren't even willing to install the game patches which correct the very problems they are whining about.

If he isn't willing to connect to internet that's certainly his choice, but like all choices he should be willing to accept the consequences. I'd have complete respect if he came on and said "I realize that the patches would fix these problems but does any one know another way to fix it?" Instead he just ragged on the quality of the game. I'm sorry for not being politically correct, but I call that complaining.

Firstly, Ashen is within his rights to complain about the design of a game that he believes is fundamentally flawed. Secondly, where did Ashen say he was not willing to install the patches? The issue is that he doesn't feel that he should be forced to connect his pc to the internet just to play an offline game that can be bought in a store. Thirdly, why are you taking it personally that someone doesn't think the game was developed properly before its release? Unless you were part of the developing team, I fail to understand how this gives you the right to just accuse someone of complaining and assume they are not trying to fix the problem. Lastly, titles of threads do not always tell you the full story, reading the thread will let you see that people have been offering suggestions as well as support and that Ashen has been responding to these in a constructive manner.

This is my final post on the matter. If you wish to discuss it further then send me a PM as this thread is getting off topic now.

Ashen · Post by **Ashen** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:11 am

And back to the subject at hand (thanks mr.sir, my thoughts exactly!) - more bugs with the Statues, of course.

I thought I'd list what I used to get around some of these in case anyone has the same problem as I do with no net access.

The shard scene not triggering, at the very beginning, was solved by staying near the chest where you found it, hitting ~ to bring up the console and typing:
DebugMode 1
rs ga_conversation_self ("11_sw_shardscene")
DebugMode 0

The Ember bug and no cut scene had to have a reload of a save. When you type DebugMode 1 you can tell where the yellow patches are for scene triggers - I had to be in the middle to trigger the scene in Ember, where the girl runs out, walking into it later did not work.

The bodies problem went like this. Use the powder on the body as you should and only then open console and type

RunScript i_wyrmsagebag_ac

You have to do this 10 times - click, type etc. Of course before the first time the usual DebugMode 1 goes. Watch for the capitals, they matter.

Careful with the summoned creatures; uncheck the ability or poor Khelgar will go bye bye when you go reach the temple before the Lorne fight, or even earlier some times. I still cannot go directly to Black. - have to go to Merchant then B. It simply does not work otherwise but experiment.

Use only one party member selected when going to Skymirror and OOW especially, or it will crash.

The archives were yet another mess. No matter what I did, even reloading the module did not work. So this is the solution

~
DebugMode 1
rs 16_a_puzzle_update
rs 16_a_puzzle_update
rs 16_a_puzzle_update
rs 16_a_puzzle_update
DebugMode 0

It will update your journal only once but it will allow you to continue as it opens the middle doors; you lose the locked ones though.

The Lorne fight required a reload, and would not work with any other NPC. It had to be my primary, and I had to reload from before the Temple of T. Other people from what I saw made it work with other characters, but why only one works on occasions who knows. Again, the cut scene trigger problem but reload worked. If you are one of the lucky few like me, and then get the second bug here as well - i.e. Lorne will simply not die, do not bother. You have to reload from the start, i.e. the Temple.

Statues of Purification - the cut scene again in the mines. A save worked in two ways, as I am experimenting now with what works. Either reload a save from before you entered the room where the tree is or save where you are (check with the console if you are within the yellow field of the trigger), and the reload that save - it'll trigger occasionally which is dandy.

The Temple of Seasons statue wouldn't trigger either. Here nothing worked at all, even a reload from before entering the Temple, except going out, getting Casavir and then entering the Temple with him, as again the console yellow triggers show there is one for him before the main trigger, so when he triggered that one, the main one followed and that was the only thing that worked.

If this doesn't work either, I managed to track down the console commands, luckily didn't have to use them but this should open the portal if you simply cannot fix it in any other way. Stand next to one of the two temple statues and type:

~
DebugMode 1
rs ga_global_int ( "24_nStatuesPurified", "4")
rs ga_journal ( "24statues", 50, 1, 0, 0)
rs ga_give_feat ( "$PC_LEADER", 1747, 0, 0)
DebugMode 0
~

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:41 am

You could download the patches with your online computer and save them on a USB memory stick or a CD, installing them from there. IIRC, you can find tha patchers over at bioware's site and download them without having to press "UPDATE" on your game.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:30 pm

Fiberfar wrote:Mmh, I understand why you're angry, but good luck finding any games that doesn't need one or two patches these days. All the devs seem to miss something along the way.

You ain't kidding.

It should be illegal to sell games that are totally unplayable without patches; I don't mean the odd bug or so - that's to be expected (I suppose

), but totally unplayable?!? Surely in violation of a Trade Descriptions Act?? If not, it SHOULD BE!

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:34 pm

Ashen wrote:This is not missing something along the way - in the mean time couldn't do the bodies in Ember; Khelgar disappeared so the T bug said hello; then had to reload the Lorne arena 3 times to get it started and guess what - hello Lorne cannot be killed bug!

Now, there are bugs, this is idiotic! The only reason I am still playing is well ... am stubborn to the point of insanity. Of course all games have bugs and I think patches are normal but the sheer amount this one has, with patches making things difficult is just ... boggles the mind.

@Fljot ~ my gaming PC is brand new and I have no wish to expose it to problems. I also use it for work and well. I can't believe my luck!

Yeah, mine was too. I kept it off-line for more than 18mths until my old machine went the way of all PCs. I understand how you feel. I was terrified going on-line would bugger-up this PC like the old one - but so far, it's ok. (Should have a 'fingers crossed' smilie...)

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:47 pm

Fiberfar wrote:You could download the patches with your online computer and save them on a USB memory stick or a CD, installing them from there. IIRC, you can find tha patchers over at bioware's site and download them without having to press "UPDATE" on your game.

Good suggestion.

BUT not EVERY PC can download to disc. I'm not sure I have the facility myself, actually...

What would have been more helpful is if the the developers had come to an arrangement with PC Games mags to produce a disc with the updates to be issued with the mags. Used to be able to get patches that way, though I haven't bought a Games mag in some years.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:02 pm

I think if the box does not already (which it may). The box should list an internet connection as one of the specs of the game. Then you would know you should not purchase the game unless you have an internet connection. Its pretty much the same deal as if (this is a hypothetical not directed at a particular person) I couldn't run the game because I didn't have a video card. I could criticize the game maker all I want and tell them they suck because the game doesn't run without a video card

I do agree that if its unplayable without an internet connection then that should have been on the box.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:47 pm

Claudius wrote:I think if the box does not already (which it may). The box should list an internet connection as one of the specs of the game. Then you would know you should not purchase the game unless you have an internet connection. Its pretty much the same deal as if (this is a hypothetical not directed at a particular person) I couldn't run the game because I didn't have a video card. I could criticize the game maker all I want and tell them they suck because the game doesn't run without a video card I do agree that if its unplayable without an internet connection then that should have been on the box.

NO GAME should be unplayable as purchased. MotB and SoZ WERE unplayable as purchased. It does NOT say so on the box. If it did, I would NOT have purchased it. It DOES say you need broadband internet connection for MULTIPLAYER, but not for any other reason. To me, this is gross deception on the part of the developers.
Personally, I should think that quite a lot of people - myself included - did NOT have their games computer on the net. And why the dickens should we be obliged to put it on the net and risk viruses? I have played the vast majority of my PC games without ever needing to be on-line, and the games have worked perfectly well without any need for patches or 'updates' as Obsidian calls 'em. They should be ashamed to put unplayable games on the market, just for the sake of making money when the game wasn't ready to go out.

I won't buy any more of their games, that's for sure.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:26 am

Yeah I would be mad if I didn't know about patches. But now I think it is the industry standard. So the statement No Game Should Be Unplayable As Purchased, is not true anymore.

Ashen · Post by **Ashen** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:20 am

It is not the industry standard to deliver games to shelves that are this bugged. When I purchased NWN II I had two game stopping bugs, that appeared after 3 restarts of the game so I had to give up. Then I got MoB and well yes, look at page one. The expansion should have taken care of my OG problems, and instead it made them significantly worse. That is not acceptable. They are not going to get any more of my money unless I am positive I do not need to download over 200Mbs of patches which I did last night because NWN II vault as I just discovered has them in zips, so you can patch manually and I could transfer from this to that computer. And then to top that off, when I reloaded the module from the start - guess what? Another triggering bug! With the game fully patched this time.

Another thing is, we here are definitely not the standard when it comes to gaming. The world is full of kids who have no idea how to solve a problem if they have one and full of people who do not want to bother with things like this. Then like me, most of my friends by now who are RPG gamers mostly, have two rigs - one for net that says hello format C every two weeks and one for gaming and serious work which most of us take home. I do not want to mix these two things. Fljots has it perfectly right - if there is no notice on the box that you need an internet connection to play single player campaign then they are cheating me out of my money. The game was not ready to be released, simple as that and they rushed it.

Ok, not to exaggerate, I don't mind a patch or two but I honestly think it is excessive to the extreme if I purchase an expansion pack, that patches the game and then this causes an even worse problem. This is what irritated me to no end, that a purchased EP that should patch the Original, did not do so and actually exacerbated the problem. That is really unacceptable. Hence no more from me to them when it comes to money. In general if more people did that, I think we'd have games in a better state, for NWN II is not alone for sure when it comes to being released without being ready.