Love Thy Enemy?

[LeoStarDragon1]

Yeah... "taking the Fifth" takes on a whole new meaning, doesn't it.

You've never lived if you don't have enemies. Success, talent, brains, luck cause envy and resentment. There is nothing more satisfying for some people than watching a successful person fail.

I am not talking about so-called "success" achieved by backstabbing, ass-kissing and manipulation (common practices). When such people fail, it is our civic duty to rejoice.
No, I am talking about people who dare to be talented and successful when they are not supposed to be, from their co-workers' point of view.

(On a side note, it is rather an exception than a rule when a a truly intelligent, talented, deserving individual rises to power. Does it happen because decent people can't compete with crafty morons? Or because the Big Morons prefer to promote other morons who are even dumber, to safeguard their own position?)

Hm. Just a coincidence of the poll's placing that option there.

As for me, it's more about honor and reputation. Being accused of something that I didn't do, rather than someone taking credit for something I did do.

[Demortis]

I think were all forgetting one of the major points of "hate". Fable touched upon it breifly...

Hate is a motivator. How many people have pushed themselves farther to be better then those that they "hate"? Granted, to much and its bad, but its still a healthy response. Atleast, I hope so... So yea, I like to "hate". Gets me to be creative

[CigSmokingNerd]

Enemies don't have to don on a mask and grind menacingly while tying a women to the train tracks

They do not? Why is there never the least bit of semblance between hero comicbooks and this RL existence which may accurately be dubbed a treadmill? Harry Potter universe, swallow me whole at least once more!

Slightly more on-topic, and I will make an effort to put this succinctly, why bother with enemies? Seriously, and do not feed me the, eh, platitudinal 'competition and rivalry furthers personal, spiritual... ecumenical growth' line, hehe, becuase that is just self-deception at its best. No, ladies and gents, I am and plan to remain completely and blissfully oblivious to any and all personified forms of enmity. I would rather not at all think of people I dislike than letting things like of spite and scorn intrude upon my little pink universe. For all I care, we are all innocent white (for the sake of symbolism) unicorns with flowing long horse-hair and braided tails.

-CSN

[Demortis]

Slightly more on-topic, and I will make an effort to put this succinctly, why bother with enemies? Seriously, and do not feed me the, eh, platitudinal 'competition and rivalry furthers personal, spiritual... ecumenical growth' line, hehe, becuase that is just self-deception at its best. No, ladies and gents, I am and plan to remain completely and blissfully oblivious to any and all personified forms of enmity. I would rather not at all think of people I dislike than letting things like of spite and scorn intrude upon my little pink universe. For all I care, we are all innocent white (for the sake of symbolism) unicorns with flowing long horse-hair and braided tails.

-CSN

Well, "Ignorance is bliss"

[dragon wench]

Well, "Ignorance is bliss"

As are many things.... but that doesn't mean it's healthy to indulge in them freely...

Nay.. I feel it is both healthy and beneficial to one's existence to proudly and unabashedly loathe one's enemies... Really...why bottle it up and cause undue stress to one's self when it is far more advantageous to plot the downfall and destruction of those who have wronged you?

[Bloodstalker]

Why love your enemies? Because the sex is fantastic.

[dragon wench]

Why love your enemies? Because the sex is fantastic.

Jeeze... I've heard of ahem.. "making love" to one's enemies.. but really... isn't that...er... pushing things just a bit?

[Bloodstalker]

More than a bit I would say.

[Claudius]

Because they could become my friends...

To elaborate because the notion of 'enemy' is in the mind. And because that notion is impermanent then it would also be possible to see the positive side of them and to react to them from compassion. This does not mean you are a doormat or have inappropriate responses ie they insult you and you thank them or something.

To some extent saying the anger itself is polluting your mind (perhaps health too). But that is a limited vehicle to your own happiness. Its possible to also desire your enemies happiness and be sympathetically joyful when THEY are happy much as you are happy when your children are happy.

PS - Thanks Lady Dragon fly. Yes bad karma is kind of like 'ruin health' from a spiritual perspective. Karma is an apparent observation like the sun rises in the east. There is no self existence to karma instead it is only relevant to the context. Karma as an observation should fit to reality like a glove fits a hand.

PPS - I actually voted for ignore. That gives a chance to return to a good state of mind. A chance to relax the solid thinking of defining them an enemy.

[fable]

Its possible to also desire your enemies happiness and be sympathetically joyful when THEY are happy much as you are happy when your children are happy.

How many people have screwed you knowingly out a job, Claudius? Or discriminated against you, used physical violence repeatedly against you? What about killing your family? Just curious whether any of these platitudes were the result of being kicked repeatedly for a few decades in a prison cell, and rising above mundane hatred--or read about in a book.

[Demortis]

To some extent saying the anger itself is polluting your mind (perhaps health too). But that is a limited vehicle to your own happiness. Its possible to also desire your enemies happiness and be sympathetically joyful when THEY are happy much as you are happy when your children are happy.

Wait, what? Im not followin on this. What your tryin to say is something along the lines of not actually havin an enemy, but someone you had a rough patch with?

Sometimes, pure, raging, hate, is a good thing. Not going the way of the movie,"Hostel". Take for example, the MMA fighter who has a limb snapped and his title is stripped from him. That person who did this would be his enemy. He would train, poring blood, sweat, and tears into his training to get right back at him. Hate has its uses, it helped us when we were livin in caves, and its something that we shouldnt just throw by the way side because its "useless". Think of how the spleen would feel if we did that!!! :laugh:

[LeoStarDragon1]

Stress Relief!

Hello, Forum Folks!

Yesterday I saw the movie, "Tyler Perry's Madea Goes to Jail" and it reminded me of some apt phrases for here.

Madea abides by, "Don't get mad, get even!" I used to say, why would I want to get even unless I got mad first? Where would the motivation stem from then? But I watch "My Name is Earl", so I'm guessing it would be from a desire to restore a Karmic balance of some sort as it were, if not anger.

Well, as for me, I think both apply. I get angered enough to want to get even so as to even the score! Also, Justice! Why let him or her get away with something they shouldn't?

I think part of my stress stems from not having closure in that area.

One female employee I worked with who tried to get me in trouble by saying I was doing things that I wasn't doing, eventually got terminated for something she was doing, i.e. "stealing company time"! She did this by extending her alloted 15 minute break periods up to 30 minutes sometimes, by talking to guys. She probably thought it was okay, as she hung out with the smokers in their seperate break room, who didn't leave until they finished a cigarette and for the most part, it lasted beyond 15 and that miffed us non-smokers and anti-smokers, but I digress. The point is, she got caught somehow. Now I wasn't the one to turn her in, as I wasn't there anymore. But upon hearing the news of her termination, I felt much better somehow, even though I wasn't the one to act and get her terminated. Her form of termination didn't allow her to apply for Unemployment Benefits either.

However, there is another female out there, who I had never met before, who had married a friend of mine. She accused me of something that I didn't do too, and it still urks me that I can't even the score with her. I'd feel much better if she got what was coming to her too!

Then there's the guy that owes me $35.00 and hasn't returned my game consoles and cartridges! Going back to the early 1990's.

The guys who borrowed by box of girlie videos for a bachleor party and never returned the, each claiming the other has them. Plus one of them damaged my COX Galaxy IV rather than repair it properly, and he never replaced it!

The list goes on, but I'll end it here!

[Demortis]

But there is also a saying of, "I dont get even, I get one better."

[Claudius]

Demortis that comes from being caught in ideas of a self, a person, a living being or a lifespan. The Buddha said that in one of his lives he was cut into pieces by King Kalinga. If he had been caught in any of those ideas he would have felt ill will towards the King.

[Demortis]

Yes, but The Buddha didnt grow up and live in this time frame. Sadly. What you say is correct but, not everyone is a Buddhist monk, or a believer...follower... Not sure what to say for that one. Not many maybe the top 1% of people remember past lives. I was told by someone that I was there as a Roman Guard when Christ himself was Cruxified(sp?). Wheter I believe that or not isnt the point. But people crave conflict. Its "human" nature. I would love to raise my daughter in a world free from evil, hate, and racist bastards. So I use my hate inorder to end it. Sometimes its fire vs fire. And before you say that Im showing my daughter something that I dont want to exist. I was forced away from her by my ex. So she doesnt see me all the time. Just when Im at my best fatherness I guess you could call it...

[Claudius]

Demortis...its a long road to get to where you don't have enemies. And it doesn't mean you deny your responses. It just means that you are not so overcome by thinking. The thought of a self is an example of a thought. Most people are not ready to analyze that thought.

But most people to some degree recognize that anger has some negatives. For instance if you catch your wife or husband in bed with someone you might want to kill them. You could actually be that angry that you want to kill them! But most people know that murder will get them in jail. So they say ok although I WANT to kill them that is not really a good idea. So they take some power away from that thought.

Then they get a lawyer and divorce. But they are still angry but in their own self interest they restrain themselves. Say they have children and they want to talk bad about their spouse. It makes them feel good when they are hot under the collar to say bad things about spouse. But maybe they see that hurts their kid. So they don't.

So not only do they see that anger can get in the way of their happiness but also others. So anger is not in the driving seat.

Later they notice that they are labeling some of their feelings as bad and some good. That leads possibly to trying to accept all of their feelings. The stink of hating your own mood. Just welcoming that stink.

Later you analyze if this makes sense. Who is welcoming what? How can you welcome your own mood? So eventually maybe years after your first realization that anger was bad it has lead you to analyze SELF. Or not...

[LeoStarDragon1]

Howdy!

But there is also a saying of, "I dont get even, I get one better."

"Howdy" a contraction of "How do you do?", used as a greeting.

But anyway, I know that one too! It causes a vicious circle if the idiot doesn't recognize that he started it and that you're just trying to end it!

* * *

I took my General Psychology courses in high school and college and I got high grades too. I also collected and read, "Understanding Human Behavior".
Observing cause and affect among homo sapiens has been a long time hobby of mine.

* * *

An example of displaced anger. This moron with the initials of "KJC" was a smoker who borrowed one of my girlie cigarrette lighters to take to work. I collect them but didn't want the dangerous lighter fluid inside them so I thought that he could use it up and then I could display it safely. The idiot and his wife were with me in my car one day, as we were at a friend of mine's home. He wanted to borrow another lighter. I asked him what happened to the one I loaned him. He said he threw it to another guy who didn't catch it, so it broke. I asked him when was he going to replace it. He said he wasn't going to. Because he had a wife and an unborn son in the car with me, and because we had witnesses, rather than beat him to within an inch of his life, I pounded on my car horn and it became stuck, blaring loudly!

My friend's father knew how to fix that problem. Now it doesn't honk well. You have to find the right spot to make it honk now. So I harmed my car instead of him. The idiot went to prison later anyway for embezzlement. He's out now, but is still so stupid, he doesn't understand why what he did was wrong, to both me and the store he stole from.

To this day I wonder if the world would've been better off had I pummeled him instead of my car horn button. At least in "The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion", I get to pummel people and relieve my stress, rather than keep it in.:mischief:

[fable]

Wait, what? Im not followin on this. What your tryin to say is something along the lines of not actually havin an enemy, but someone you had a rough patch with?

No. My words in no way described that. I wanted to know, quite simply, if your remark:

Its possible to also desire your enemies happiness and be sympathetically joyful when THEY are happy much as you are happy when your children are happy.

...was based on first hand knowledge, or the repetition of what you've been read/told. In other words, whether you truly had enemies whose happiness you desired and found joyful. I think we can agree that having the **** kicked out of you on regular basis for years by people who engaged in ethnic or racial slurs amounts to an enemy, correct? Or people who killed your family, not because they targeted you personally, but because they didn't want anybody from your ethnic community living in a certain area? These aren't about people going through a rough patch, right?

So, again, I ask: is the remark I quoted about being happy over your enemies' happiness based on personal first hand knowledge gained after being treated like **** for years by such enemies, or just something you've read/been told? Simple question, really.

[Bigby's Nose]

Heh. Provocative topic. The devil comes in many guises.

Fable: I broadly agree with Claudius. I 100% believe that the concept of "enemy" is the mistaken result of strong emotional reactions - *most*, but certainly *not all*, of the time. (My little disclaimer: I'm not a Buddhist or pacifist - I was raised as a Baptist - and I also suspect that "God is the God of love"/"God loves everyone" is a seriously flawed idea, but I don't at all presume to know how God really feels about anything.) My reasoning is simple. A person *must* have a specific personal beef with who you are and/or what you do in this world in order to be truly considered an "enemy". The vast majority of the snakes-in-the-grass, thugs, and violent criminals among us have no personal grudge against their victims - these fools are simply malefactors in the world, potentially dangerous to *everyone* and anyone. Maybe this may *feel* like hair-splitting or playing with semantics if you've been the victim of some such person's evil. But it's not so. How you perceive them makes no difference to them - rotten people by definition don't care about their effect on others. They'll keep doing what they do despite how you or anyone feels about them. So your perception can only effect you. If I understand human nature correctly, feeling personally slighted causes much greater angst than feeling offended in some abstract or general way. Such anger is a necessary and natural thing, but it's difficult to indulge in without hurting yourself - it can worsen your mood, it can color your outlook on things, it can consume time that can be used for good and constructive things, so on, so forth. Thus the fools can have this additional victory over you, and they don't deserve it! Uh-uh, not at all!

I apologize if I come across as condescending or preachy. I don't know you, and maybe you didn't need to hear this at all because you handle yourself just fine - perhaps you handle yourself better than I handle myself. I apologize also if I'm talking out of my you-know-what due to my ignorance of the specifics of the situations you mentioned. I was moved to write this because I was pained by your obviously strong feelings on this matter. I just hope the bastards are not getting you down.

Now, to the person who said "sleep with your enemies" (I'm sorry, I can't seem to figure out who you are): You are a GENIUS! There's no better way to thoroughly ruin them!

[fable]

Bigby's Nose: My question wasn't about me. So don't worry. I just want to know if Claudius' statement, that I quoted, was based on personal experience derived from--shall we say?--rising above the horrors of being treated horribly, regularly, by somebody or group that cannot be labeled otherwise than as a "enemy," or whether he was quoting a book or something he's been told. Nothing more or less than that. I suppose you could say that the same words have a weight that greatly varies based on a person's experience. So if a Mandela (or someone like him, without any of the celebrity) were to speak about how he feels regarding his enemies, I would listen closely, and consider those words at length. But someone who quotes verse and chapter at me without having experienced what a true enemy can do, and says they love their enemies in spite of everything an enemy can truly do? Not much weight to that, as I see it. So I await Claudius' response.