Obfuscate

TheInvoker · Post by **TheInvoker** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:19 am

Some enemies can see me even if my obfuscate is activated....why?

Dheu · Post by **Dheu** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:01 pm

Some enemies have special powers that allow them to see people based on heat signatures instead of relying on visual queues alone. You can see the effect yourself if you play as a clan with Auspex.

TheInvoker · Post by **TheInvoker** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:21 am

Do you mean that if they have Auspex they can see me?

Auspex is the worst discipline in my opininion...

Wesp5 · Post by **Wesp5** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:02 am

TheInvoker wrote:Do you mean that if they have Auspex they can see me?

Yes, from a game view point they have something called "true sight" which should be Auspex.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:23 am

On the contrary, it's one of the best disciplines. Not only does it allow you to see enemies behind walls, but it gives you a bonus of three to Perception AND Wits.

Perception has an effect on the ranged feat. This means that all you need to max the skill is an item (Braid of the Eagle) and that's it! Otherwise, you'd be spending forty experience on increasing this attribute!

Wits on the other hand is responsible for defense and hacking. By putting one point into it (four experience) and using Asupex, you are able to max it. With this you save thirty six experience points.

By maxing this ability, you save some seventy six points and all just for a single blood point each time you need it.

I think it's definitely one of the best disciplines around.

TheInvoker · Post by **TheInvoker** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:14 am

Crenshinibon wrote:On the contrary, it's one of the best disciplines. Not only does it allow you to see enemies behind walls, but it gives you a bonus of three to Perception AND Wits.

Perception has an effect on the ranged feat. This means that all you need to max the skill is an item (Braid of the Eagle) and that's it! Otherwise, you'd be spending forty experience on increasing this attribute!

Wits on the other hand is responsible for defense and hacking. By putting one point into it (four experience) and using Asupex, you are able to max it. With this you save thirty six experience points.

By maxing this ability, you save some seventy six points and all just for a single blood point each time you need it.

I think it's definitely one of the best disciplines around.

i don't need to see enemies before they see me if i'm strong enough to kill them. And i don't need hacking or firearms high. because i don't use them.
I spend 3 point in computer and 1 (from the beginning) in wits plus the computer one you get from the book.I usually play a Gangrel,so Protean gives me a +1 wits.This mean that my hacking abilities can reach 5 and it's enough for most part of the game.
I don't use firearms...or..i mean i use them but only in few situations and i don't need to raise my stats to have high "ranged" stat.I prefer to fight with hands with high "protean" or "potence" (brujah).
And i discovered that it's useless to raise some abilities because you can do almost everything in a different way.
Example:at the beginning when you loof for mcgee you can learn where he is from the computer or listening to the tape.
Or when you must gain werewolf blood,you can have high security (6) or high persuasion (4) + hacking at (3).
Obfuscate is really good but i don't like that someone can see me.t

this is my very personal discipline standings:
Fortitude (super defense)
Protean (causes vry high damages to bosses)
Celerity (you all like it)
Obfuscate (don't need to raise stealth and stealth kill is very useful)
Animalism (like dominate and dementation but can kill vampires too and can steal blood)
Thaumaturgy (good but needs more blood than animalism and stealing blood is worse because you must stay still)
Presence (good but doesn't work on bosses)
Dominate & Dementation (they can kill only humans..not very useful.they are better in dialogues but a high persuasion is enough)
Potence (you become very strong but rasing strenght and brawl or melee is enough)
Auspex (good only for hacking,in my opinion)

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:54 am

Just out of interest, why is something not very useful if it can only be used to kill humans? There are a lot of instances in the game where you mainly fight humans, meaning these skills are very useful. They also have the benefit of things like trance, suicide etc. not breaking masquerade (very useful if you find yourself chased by police or hunters).

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:05 pm

It's a matter of personal opinion and the clan you're playing.

A Torreador with Celerity and Auspex for example is the best gunman and definitely one of the strongest "builds".

I'm pretty sure that the high bonuses from Potence are wasted, unless you don't put any points into Strength and Brawl. I've noticed no difference in a skill being at ten and over ten.

I'd put Domination as one of the best disciplines as not only do you have the area of effect suicide (not to mention the normal one), you can also dominate up to three humans OR vampires, which take off a focus from nearly all combat abilities.

For Obfuscate, as you pointed out, some enemies can see through it, however, they still can't notice you if you have a high Stealth skill, so your argument isn't really valid. There are a handful of places through which you can't snek past with stealth, so the triple damage is its' real advantage.

Personally, I think Celerity is to be considered the best discipline as it allows you do dodge bullets and attacks (nulls the need for defensive feats) but it also allows you to attack an enemy without interference. That and you can renew its' duration before the ability expires.

Yes, it may be the strongest, but I think for favorites, I'd probably go with Domination (Ventrue) as it opens up a lot of options and is more fun from the roleplaying perspective.

I may be missing something, but to me, Thaumaturgy is at the very bottom of the list.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:44 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:I may be missing something, but to me, Thaumaturgy is at the very bottom of the list.

I think its matter of game playing style with that one, I personally love Thaumaturgy - once maxed out, the blood shield is very handy and blood boil, blood salvo etc. are capable of doing a lot of damage to both vamps and humans once you have the Tremere only item that enhances blood magic. However, to be effective you need a lot of blood bags when in areas where you can't feed much. Its also handy to use it with a combination of suicide, trance and so on.

TheInvoker · Post by **TheInvoker** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:58 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:It's a matter of personal opinion and the clan you're playing.

A Torreador with Celerity and Auspex for example is the best gunman and definitely one of the strongest "builds".

I'm pretty sure that the high bonuses from Potence are wasted, unless you don't put any points into Strength and Brawl. I've noticed no difference in a skill being at ten and over ten.

I'd put Domination as one of the best disciplines as not only do you have the area of effect suicide (not to mention the normal one), you can also dominate up to three humans OR vampires, which take off a focus from nearly all combat abilities.

For Obfuscate, as you pointed out, some enemies can see through it, however, they still can't notice you if you have a high Stealth skill, so your argument isn't really valid. There are a handful of places through which you can't snek past with stealth, so the triple damage is its' real advantage.

Personally, I think Celerity is to be considered the best discipline as it allows you do dodge bullets and attacks (nulls the need for defensive feats) but it also allows you to attack an enemy without interference. That and you can renew its' duration before the ability expires.

Yes, it may be the strongest, but I think for favorites, I'd probably go with Domination (Ventrue) as it opens up a lot of options and is more fun from the roleplaying perspective.

I may be missing something, but to me, Thaumaturgy is at the very bottom of the list.

you don't like offensive (protean,potence) and defensive (fortitude,presence) disciplines.
I just tried to fight with the "tzimisce creation" with both fortitude (5) and presence (4) activated.When they hit me ...i take 0 damage!but presence doesn't work on bosses,so when you fight them you could miss an offensive discipine.
To use the stealth ability you have to crouch and Obfuscate is very useful because it lets you run like invisible...if i have to crouch with obfuscate,i prefer to fight!

Dominate and Dementation are the same for me..i didn't say they are bad.
Let's compare Dominate,Dementation and Animalism
Level 1
Trance vs Hysteria vs Nightwisp ravens it's the same...all of them block 1 enemy.
Level 2
Brain wipe vs Mass allucination vs Burrowin beetle:i choose Mass Allucination;as a second level it's a nice defensive power.The Beetle is almost useless but can cause good damage on everybody.Brain wipe....mm...i can't make it work.Everybody could see me.
Level 3
Suicide vs Vision of Death vs Spectral Wolf:Spectral Wolf is the best because it works on vampires too (not the strongest anyway).For humans,they are all good.
Level 4
Possession vs Berserk vs Bats communion:I prefer Berserk rather than possession because i can activate it from distance.I mean that i don't need to go in the battle.i can have an ally even if i remain far from the enemis.But Bats Communion is simply fantastic:causes very very high damage (something like 110 on Hengeyokai) and it steals blood too!
Level 5
Mass suicide vs Bedlam vs Pestilence:Mass Suicide is the best for humans but i pick Pestilence for the reason i always repeat:it works on vampires too.
Let's see how may blood points they requires.
Dominate 1 2 2 3 4
Dementation 1 2 2 3 4
Animalism 1 1 2 3 3
Animalism is the cheapest one too.

mr_sir wrote:I think its matter of game playing style with that one, I personally love Thaumaturgy - once maxed out, the blood shield is very handy and blood boil, blood salvo etc. are capable of doing a lot of damage to both vamps and humans once you have the Tremere only item that enhances blood magic. However, to be effective you need a lot of blood bags when in areas where you can't feed much. Its also handy to use it with a combination of suicide, trance and so on.

You're right.
Thaumaturgy is complete...blood shield is a good defensive power,and this discipline works both on humans and vampires.But as you said it needs a lot of blood.

PS:how can i change topic title? we are speaking about all disciplines right now.

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:27 pm

If you are playing as a Tremere, you can use blood strike in place of some of the other abilities, to gain some blood points back, when you use like blood shield, etc.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:20 am

Sir Twist wrote:If you are playing as a Tremere, you can use blood strike in place of some of the other abilities, to gain some blood points back, when you use like blood shield, etc.

Yeah but the downside is you have to stand still til the blood reaches you, which can often be a huge disadvantage. Also if you use blood strike/salvo as the last attack, no blood is returned when the enemy dies so it can't even be used just to restock your blood supply. I find it more beneficial to use blood strike purely for its damage and use blood bags or feed for blood.

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:55 am

Actually, you can use blood strike a couple of times. And if you are in the right place/right time, you can, when low on blood, you can sneak up on someone, use blood strike, then stealth kill. Oh yeah, and using notarget helps, too.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:56 am

I was able to take down one of the final bosses with only two uses of Celerity without getting hurt.

Mass Hallucination worked for me when I played.

Possession can be activated from a distance too. That, and the vampires/ humans you control are actually calm, so they follow you and can serve as blood dolls.

The fourth Animalism skill is very good, no denying that. Makes me wish that the two blood stealing Tremere skills were based off that for the reason mr_sir pointed out. In order to get the most out of it, you have to spam it and at the same time count how many hits it takes to kill an enemy.

Mass Suicide DOES work on vampires.

Then, I think the greatest advantage that Animalism has is that you can score a free point for level five from Beckett, effectively saving you 16 experience.

TheInvoker · Post by **TheInvoker** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:21 am

Mass Allucination worked for me too.....but Brain wipe no.

Mass suicide can damage enemies like Hengeyokai and Ming Xyao?

Possession can be activated from distance but,if i'm not wrong,the possessed one will attack the enemies you are attacking...so if you remain hidden....does it work?
i tried to possess the creatures in the Nosferatu galleries....it inflicts about 40 damages but i can't possess them.

I think all the enemies you find in the game are killable without using any discipline,except Ming Xyao.....i really don't how i could kill her using a Malkavian.
Brujah=celerity+potence ok
Gangrel=fortitude+protean (5) + animalism (4)=super
Nosferatu=potence + animalism = ok

For the other clans you must have very very high offensive and defensive stats.She seems to have something like 2000Hp..

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:08 pm

I remember playing a Malk once through, and dealing with Ming Xao, I just basically loaded up on weapons, and shot the heck out of her. Took a while, but ended up killing her off with a sword.

TheInvoker · Post by **TheInvoker** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:40 pm

Speaking about Obfuscate again.....
Why can't i stealth-kill all the enemies?
I just treid with the mandarin but i didn't see the icon to do that action even if i was in the right position.

About Ming Xyao:
Firearms are good but you need a huge amout of ammo and the problem is when you have to shoot to 2...mmm...i don't know what they are

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:56 pm

I don't think you can stealth kill bosses or mini-bosses.

TheInvoker · Post by **TheInvoker** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:18 pm

i understand that i can't use it on MinXyao or Hengeyokai because they are too big but why not on others?
It's a feature of Obfuscate......it would be like,if i use protean at 5 i don't get the full skills but only the ones till the third level.....

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:44 pm

Most disciplines don't work against bosses.

Again, you can dominate vampires, such as the ones in Hotel Hallowbrook. Headhunters aren't vampires though, they can even see through Obfuscate and all that.

Before Wesp fixed it, Suicide worked on Ming Xiao's clone.

I brought Ming Xia to 3/4 health using a flamethrower and finished her off with my trust Colt Anaconda.

No, it's not a feature of Obfuscate. The extra damage is, which the bosses and mini bosses are certainly affected by, the stealth kill is perhaps more related to stealth I'd say. It has no effect on "overly supernatural" beings.