Starting Characters / Dual Class Question

pilawhitetrash · Post by **pilawhitetrash** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:10 pm

I played and loved this game back when it first came out and wanted to go through it again. I'm having trouble remembering exactly how things and I want to get it right from the start.

I am confused on dual classing. Is it best to pick dual class when you are creating the characters? Can you assign level ups to a certain class as you go along in the game? I read that dual class chars level up half as fast (half going to each class) so this is why I'm asking.

I'm also curious as to what levels I shoudl make each class or what level I switch over to the 2nd class for my characters if that is the best way. Here is what I'm thinking my party will be:

1. Human Paladin
2. Dwarf Fighter
3. Half Elf - Druid
4. Elf Fighter / Thief
5. Human Ranger / Cleric
6. Human Fighter / Mage

For example, do I start out getting to level 2 fighter then switch over to mage to max level? Or do I just dual class from beginning and let the game level up each class accordingly? How does that process work? Thanks in advance.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:36 am

There are two ways for a character to have more than one class.
1) Multiclassing and 2) Dual classing.
Only humans dual class. Only non-humans multiclass.
If you multiclass, experience points are divided equally between the two classes. Therefore a fighter/thief will gradually become a better fighter and also a better thief.
If you dual class you only improve the experience of your current class.
I assume it is the same as Baldur's Gate. I will explain how it works in that game and if it is different in Icewind dale hopefully, someone will correct me.
In BG you might start out as a fighter and when at level 3 dual to a thief. From that moment you become a level 1 thief. When you get to the level of the other class that class becomes active again and you become a level3 fighter, and a llevel 3 thief. You will continue to go up in level in the thief class, but not the fighter class. However from then on, you can wear the armour of a fighter and the weapons of a fighter. Some would dual as soon as possible(I think that it is level 2 but I'm not sure) Those who do this are basically making a thief who can use armour, long bows and great swords, and use potions that are restricted to fighters. Others make a stronger fighter first and then dual. This means that you are longer without the fighter attributes, but that you are a better fighter when you get them back. When dualling you are weak for a while but can later become a very strong character.
I hope that this is clear and that I haven't mis-led you as the system could be different.
I am certain that I am right about multiclassing, not so certain about dual classing.
Hopefully someone who knows the game better than I will explain things better, but the board is fairly quiet nowadays, though I have had some useful help. I too am re-visiting the game after a long absence.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:13 pm

The advantage of dualclassing is getting advantages of another class without having to invest many XP. It's especially useful if you want some physical power for your spellcasters without loosing access to high level spells.

A pure class mage needs 750,000 XP for reaching level 12 and casting level 6 spells.
If you create a fighter/mage multiclass you've to spend half the XP you get for fighter, so you need 1,500,000 XP until you can cast level 6 spells.

If you start as human fighter you can dualclass after 2 fighter levels (2,000 XP) to mage and continue levelling like a pure mage. This way you need only 752,000 XP until you get level 6 spells. For less than 1/180 of the XP required for gaining a single mage level after level 11 you get quite some fighter advantages (Extra HP, 18/.. str, can use fighter weapons, helm and shield, bonuses for weapon specialisation, ...).

Main disadvantages are that you can't cast mage spells (no identify or instant enemy disabling with the sleep spell) before starting to dualclass and have to wait until you have more fighter than mage levels.

For dualclassing from ranger to cleric I recommend level 2,3 or 7 (extra half attack per round). You need a human with at least 15 in the ranger attributes and 17 in wisdom (I'd simply put everything except int and cha to 18). Make sure you specialize in the weapon types you'll use afterwards at the start (I recommend slings for ranged and either mace or flail or hammer for melee), you can't specialize after dualclassing anymore.

I recommend dualclassing the fighter to mage at level 3, you don't want to play without mage spells for too long. Put +++ in one and ++ in another weapon type, choose wisely. You need a human with at least 15 str and 17 int for being able to dualclass.

I'd replace the elf fighter/thief with a good aligned gome since raise dead doesn't work on elves and only good gnomes or halflings can wear the best helm in the game.

pilawhitetrash · Post by **pilawhitetrash** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:42 am

Thanks alot that really helps. Can't wait to get started!

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:58 am

Further to the ranger/cleric dual class question. Do dual classed ranger/clerics get all the druid class spells in the same way as the multiclassed ones do?

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:15 am

Has been answered many times.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/icewi ... 95941.html

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:04 pm

Thanks. I'm new to the Icewind dale board. Obviously my search criteria weren't very good. It was not the answer that I was expecting, so I'm glad that I asked.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:32 am

kmonsters advice was very good but I would like to add one thing. He suggests putting *** in one weapon and ** in another both of which you can use after dual classing. I would agree. After you have dual classed you will not be able to use those *s for a while and you will get the option of specialising whilst you have that class active. Whilst you may want to specialise in slings just to have a ranged weapon, I would advise you to use a different weapon as your melee specialisation, otherwise that * will be wasted.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:07 am

I am starting a new game with a party of six.
1) A Paladin
2) A gnomish fighter/thief
3) Four fighters.

My plan is to dual one of the fighters to druid and one of the fighters to mage at level 3, and one of the fighters to cleric and one to mage at level 6.

Firstly, would this be a balanced party and would it work?

Second has anyone any advice as to what class of mages I should use.
I am not used to Icewind dale, being more familiar with BG, so would appreciate advice.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:46 am

I'd switch that second mage over after fighter 7, since that adds another half attack. Alternatively, swap that Fighter -> Mage with a Bard. Always a very good choice in IWD.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:18 am

Thanks for the prompt reply. I was wondering if it would be worthwhile specialising one or both of the magi. What do you think?

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:39 am

I agree with Gawain, take a bard. Because of the faster levelling you can cast spells at higher casting level so they last longer or have better effects. You also get songs for supporting and healing your party and have the optimal diplomat.

Mage specialisation should be worth it since you have someone else in the party to cast the forbidden spells. I prefer Illusionist, if you don't take a bard as secondary mage take a school with different forbidden spells for the second mage, like abjurer. There's a table in the HoW manual which shows the forbidden spell schools.
I don't recommend dualclassing at level 6. From fighter level 6 to 7 you gain more than from level 2 to 6.

I'd rather dual the cleric at level 3 and the druid at level 7 instead of the other way around. Druids need less XP to reach level 8 and the extra half attack at level 7 affects the shapeshifts too.
I recommend putting +++ into slings and scimitars since scimitar profiency affects hit and damage in polar bear form and shield bonuses affect shapeshifts.

PS: I'm assuming you've the expansion installed, else conjurer is the best specialist mage. Don't change the difficulty setting, you'll get more XP which will grant you access to spells and abilities long before you're supposed to and unbalance the game.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:08 pm

Thanks for the advice. I am trying to cheat in a bard with the same experience as my fighter who was to become a fighter/thief. Unfortunately, the cheats aren't working in my game so I am trying to decide what to do.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:30 pm

Use Dalekeeper (found on Sorcerers.net) + use the IWD config program to enable cheats.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:02 pm

You can also start a new game with your bard, gain some XP there, export him (can be repeated endlessly) and reimport him to your party if you don't want to use editors or the cheat console.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:04 am

What I did was run a new game with a Bard, use Dalekeeper to increase experience, export him, and import him into my existing game. I thought that by doing that, it would probably be a bit more stable than editing my game in Dalekeeper. Not knowing how stable Dalekeeper is, I didn't want to risk it.
I have managed to find out how the cheats work in HoW, (see the other thread if you're interested), I had found an out of date web page using cheats not applicable to HoW. I won't be using it though. I was thinking of using it to edit my Bard, but didn't need to.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:08 am

Dalekeeper (and Gate- and Shadowkeepr) is extremely stable. Just never run it when IWD is running, since it draws upon some of the files.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:13 pm

Thanks.
Now my only problem is beating the game.
It's my first time through HoW and ToL so I'm looking forward to a challenge.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:22 pm

Some consider this tip borderline cheating, but I find it rather handy: once your bard gets Warchant of the Sith at lvl 11, you get Regeneration 2/round (amongst other very good stuff) from this song. This is extremely handy to heal up between fights.
Oh, and try to play on "Hard Difficulty": monsters do +50% damage, but you get +50% XP. A very worthy trade-off, IMO.

Goodluck!

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:09 am

I was already playing on hard difficulty. Didn't realise that I got extra experience though. I just thought that the game was a bit easy so went up a notch. Pity I didn't do that at the start where the enemies don't touch you at all!

I can't see how using a song that the game gives you can be considered cheating. If it were not meant to be used, why would the developers give it to you. Perhaps it is a bit too effective for some people's liking. If so, they don't have to use it.