Yet another party thread

Carnifex · Post by **Carnifex** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:18 am

Hello,

I've decided to dust off this old dungeoncrawler, so I've installed IWD, HoW amd TotLM. I have a few questions but first, I'll post the party draft:

Dwarven Fighter: Axes, Hammers
Human Paladin: Large swords, Flails, <Ranged Weapon>
Half-Elf Bard: Crossbows, Halberds
Half-Elf Ranger/Cleric: Maces, Slings, Flails
Halfling Fighter/Thief: Bows, Large swords, (Quarterstaffs for backstabs)
Human Fighter3/Illusionist: Bows, Greatswords

Now, to my questions:

- I don't have a fighter/druid multi or dualclass here, but I'm hoping the ranger/cleric could compensate this down the line. The sole purpose for the paladin is the fact that he gets to wield a paladin-only sword. What sort of ranged weapon should I specialize in with my paladin ?

- I could do the following to incorporate a druid into the group: Ditch the paladin for a fighter/druid mc/dc and swap out the ranger/cleric for a dwarven fighter/cleric or a human fighter/cleric mc. Would this be a good call ? (Yes I know the ranger/cleric gets access to alot of druid stuff eventually, but still.)

- IIRC, you trigger HoW in Kuldahar, yes ? I'd rather play through the IWD storyline first, then do the expansion with the exported party. However, I don't want to delay installing HoW since I want what it brings to the table available from the get-go. I want to know if it's possible not to trigger any HoW/TotLM stuff, even though they're both installed.

- Is the proficiency allocation I opted for optimal ? Could it be tweaked ?

Thanks in advance,

//C

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:10 am

I read on a walkthrough that conjurers can use all the spells, but that doesn't seem to be true, otherwise I would recommend fighter/conjurer instead of fighter/illusionist.
If anyone can clarify this I would be interested. has HoW or ToL altered things?

The item upgrade mod allows you to get some good stuff, but it is expensive and not really necessary.

I would definitely recommend bows as the ranged weapon for your paladin. There are a number of good ones, (long bow of action +2, long bow of defence +2, messenger of Seth, etc) and not many crossbows (I have almost finished the basic game without expansion and only found three crossbows of note). The paladin has the advantage of various immunities which are very useful. I'd stick with him.

I dualled my mage from fighter to conjurer at level 7 and he is now VERY powerful. You don't really need a mage at the beginning of the game, and your bard will be able to cast spells also.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:41 am

HoW does change the forbidden spell schools, read the manual if you need clarification. Dualing to illusionist is the best choice with HoW ionstalled.

I recommend installing HoW/TotL before you start, you get a lot of improvements to the game, including smarter enemies in some areas.
You can finish IWD and export the party to HoW afterwards, it's no problem.

You don't need a druid for beating the game, he will only give some extra options. The ranger/cleric will only get access to low level druid spells since he'll only be able to cast them when he has the ranger level for the spell level.
If you decide to replace the paladin dualclass either the druid or cleric.

I'd give bows to the paladin, if you've high strength slings can do nearly the same damage while wearing a shield, crossbows aren't good until you find a very special one.

Carnifex · Post by **Carnifex** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:54 am

Thanks for the replies!

wise grimwald wrote:I read on a walkthrough that conjurers can use all the spells, but that doesn't seem to be true, otherwise I would recommend fighter/conjurer instead of fighter/illusionist.
If anyone can clarify this I would be interested. has HoW or ToL altered things?.
The item upgrade mod allows you to get some good stuff, but it is expensive and not really necessary.

I would definitely recommend bows as the ranged weapon for your paladin. There are a number of good ones, (long bow of action +2, long bow of defence +2, messenger of Seth, etc) and not many crossbows (I have almost finished the basic game without expansion and only found three crossbows of note). The paladin has the advantage of various immunities which are very useful. I'd stick with him.

I dualled my mage from fighter to conjurer at level 7 and he is now VERY powerful. You don't really need a mage at the beginning of the game, and your bard will be able to cast spells also.

As Kmonster points out, I'll be able to cast every spell in the game between my bard and my fighter/illusionist with HoW installed. I'd miss out on invocation as a conjurer with the expansion installed, which is a very bad thing.

As for dualing at 7; If I had a smaller team, I'd prolly hold off dualing til level 9 for grandmastery. Now I settle for level 3 for some additional hp and another point in bows. In this team this guy will be mainly artillery, not up there tanking. If I wanted a gish tank, I'd dual at 9.

I'll prolly take you up on picking bows for the paladin. Although there will be several bowusers in the group, I just hope there's enough good bows around to make everyone happy.

kmonster wrote:HoW does change the forbidden spell schools, read the manual if you need clarification. Dualing to illusionist is the best choice with HoW ionstalled.

I recommend installing HoW/TotL before you start, you get a lot of improvements to the game, including smarter enemies in some areas.
You can finish IWD and export the party to HoW afterwards, it's no problem.

You don't need a druid for beating the game, he will only give some extra options. The ranger/cleric will only get access to low level druid spells since he'll only be able to cast them when he has the ranger level for the spell level.
If you decide to replace the paladin dualclass either the druid or cleric.

I'd give bows to the paladin, if you've high strength slings can do nearly the same damage while wearing a shield, crossbows aren't good until you find a very special one.

Good points about installing HoW/TotL at once, I'm glad you clarified this.

With all the bowusers in the group, I assume it's a good call letting the bard use crossbows. There's bound to be at least one or two decent around, no ?

I'm still torn between the following setups though as I'd really like to have the entire arsenal of spells available to me:

Dwarven Fighter
Human Paladin
Half-Elf Ranger/Cleric
Half-Elf Bard
Halfling Fighter/Thief
Human Fighter3/ConjurerX

vs.

Dwarven Fighter
Half-Elf Bard
Halfling Fighter/Thief
Human Fighter/Cleric (dc at 3,6 or 7. I'd dual at 9 with a smaller group)
Human Fighter/Druid (dc at 9 for grandmastery)
Human Fighter/Illusionist (dc at 3)

//C

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:46 am

You get a heavy crossbow of accuracy fairly early in the game. I don't know the game well enough to tell you about the others. What makes it hard to decide what to do is that there are so many random drops.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:58 pm

Even the "heavy crossbow of accuracy" isn't as good as a non-magical composite longbow thanks to the missing attack per round. You have a small chance to get a very good crossbow in the middle of chapter 2 as random drop, the best ranged weapon in the game is a crossbow you will find in chapter 6, but the rest of the crossbows is weak.
There's no need to take crossbow specialisation at the start, bows and slings (if you've high strength) are twice as effective. Spending proficiency points when levelling up is early enough.

Your second group is more powerful than the first, but keep in mind you'll have to rest very long and often early in the game if you don't have a priest for healing.
Delaying the dualclassing to illusionist wouldn't be that painful on the other hand, the bard can cover the essentials during the whole game.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:37 am

I second the dualling at lvl 7: that extra half attack helps more than slightly earlier spell access. (As long as you have your Bard.)

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:03 pm

Since I am intending taking my party through to IWD2, I thought that I had better check that Fighter/Illusionist continues to the best choice for a mage.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:58 pm

Since IWDII uses some form of Third Edition rules, replicating an IWD party there isn't the best idea.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:24 pm

Is third edition rules as per BG2?

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:26 pm

BG2 is still Second Edition.
Completely different rules and class mechanics. On the IWDII boards are several excellent party-advice thread. Check http://www.replacementdocs.com for the manual, so you can see what has changed.

ultramarine · Post by **ultramarine** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:01 am

Its good to know people are still playing this game. My thoughts...

A party consisting of all druid, cleric, mage/bard, is better than a party missing one of these. A C/R cannot replace a druid as the druid can shape shift and have better summon/attack spells at higher levels.

I used to play a C/R multi or dual. Then I switched to a dwarf F/C. The R/C has 4 levels of druid spells and 1 extra APR without shields. But the F/C has better saves to survive spells and paralysis attacks. Since I use my clerics as slingers, APR makes no difference. Saves makes them better defensive casters and they, hopefully, survive to revive other members.

As for proficiency, you'll need a ranged weapon, a bashing and slashing. The C/R could be more fun with a club. She gets a level 4 druid spell later on that conjures up a good club.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:59 am

Giving club proficiency to the C/R isn't a good idea. It takes 3,000,000 XP for her to gain access to level 4 druid spells (she'll only get 2,500,000 XP in a normal game) and there are better cleric weapons than the club summoned by the spell, for druids scimitar proficiency is more useful.