Unofficial Bloodlines Patch 6.0 ready for release!

[Wesp5]

- Would it be possible to auto-draw 1the fists as a weapon as soon as Protean(5) is activated?

That was actually a bug that I just fixed for 6.1, thanks!

- Is it me, or do the NPCs now hear a Crossbow shot as loudly as a regular shot?

The crossbow should be silent but maybe someone saw you firing? Always crouch!

I easily remained unnoticed, until trying to lockpick the door straight across the hall from where I was entering - as soon as I begann picking it, two guards ran up behind me and the whole building suddenly knew I was there.

Nothing I can do about that, lockpicking is obviously a criminal offense that alerts enemies nearby.

So, did you make sneaking harder up there, disable it altogether (which would be a pity, really) or might there be something at fault?

I made sneaking a lot harder when using the plus version.

- On a related note, the Discipline "Presence" doesn't seem to influence the player when used by NPCs -

Presence should work on the player, at least the screen is wobbling which is the effect that is visible.

The Mummy Wrap Fetish sets the same variable (at least, I'm pretty sure it is, at least) to 150%... doesn't that actually slow the healing, then?

No. The fetish affects the normal heal rate which is 200% and thus slower.

[Wesp5]

The Eldrich Prodigy history really does need to be changed again. The previous change has just rendered the history useless. You could pay for that 2nd dot/point of thaumaturgy many times over with exp points you would lose taking it on.

I see it like this: Not all histories offer advantages, some are meant as challenges!

[Crenshinibon]

I believe that when I counted it, you either don't lose any or lose only three experience points. I think it's a very good history to have, as you get to use your more powerful skills early on. I counted it without using Saulocept.

I don't think it needs change.

The original version made you more powerful late game, but this one increases the character's power through the majority of it, until you would otherwise place the fifth point into the discipline.

Either way, you have Daimonori to increase the damage of your offensive Thaumaturgy disciplines.

[cornoratu]

The crossbow should be silent but maybe someone saw you firing? Always crouch!

well i can deffinitely confirm that the crossbow isn`t silent at all (tried it in the museum when i shot through the window of the room that was sheltering the fetish and no1 had seen me , not even the cameras spotted me... and as soon as i shot the crossbow a guard came to my original location (the one from which i shot) NOT to the window (thus, the crossbow sound alerts the, not the one produced by the breaking of the window); also i`ve tried the crossbow in many other situations and i can deffinitely say it`s not silent and it`s a shame really because although i can do without it too, it`s always fun to stealth-kill from a distance (and although some clans have this ability through disciplines, not all of them do)

[Wesp5]

well i can deffinitely confirm that the crossbow isn`t silent at all

Were you crouching? Because I tried it at the Giovanni Mansion and it worked as long as I crouched. The moment I stood up, I was heard...

[cornoratu]

Were you crouching? Because I tried it at the Giovanni Mansion and it worked as long as I crouched. The moment I stood up, I was heard...

well to tell you the truth, i was crouching all the time and even obfuscating every now and then but the thing is i only tested in the museum map and there it isn`t silent at all (and that`s probably where u need it the most to be silent so you can shoot the cameras, the electric panel before the lasing beams and the glass on the fetish room); and if you`re not playing a stealthy character(malk or nos), then you may have trouble avoiding detection because you have to move from the spot you were at the time you shot a bolt thus making you rush and in a map like that with cameras and patrolling guards everywhere, it can lead to you being detected

[Wesp5]

well to tell you the truth, i was crouching all the time and even obfuscating every now and then but the thing is i only tested in the museum map and there it isn`t silent at all

I just tested the crossbow on the museum map and you can indeed hit a guard while sneaking and when you hide when he turns he will not notice you. So the crossbow itself probably isn't the issue but the objects you hit. Also it's not completely silent so you can't crouch right in front of people and shoot them.

[cornoratu]

I just tested the crossbow on the museum map and you can indeed hit a guard while sneaking and when you hide when he turns he will not notice you. So the crossbow itself probably isn't the issue but the objects you hit. Also it's not completely silent so you can't crouch right in front of people and shoot them.

You probably misunderstood me... I didn`t shoot any guard... i was shooting let`s say a camera (one that wasn`t 'looking' at me, it was rotated to the side) and the camera gets destroyed , and the guards come to the place from which i shot my crossbow while passing the place where the camera was instead of stopping at the place where the camera was; Same thing happens with the fetish window;

NOTE: Until i destroyed that camera NO guard and NO camera detected me;
This one can be tested even easier with an obfuscate clan; just obfuscate, then go and find the fetish room, then shoot the window of that room from a decent distance, then quickly obfuscate(and move from that place if you want to have a better view of the whole thing) and you will see that the guards will come to your shooting place instead of the window place.

And i realized that you can`t crouch right in front of people and shoot them. I mean, this isn`t the first time i played VTMB

[Shizz]

The crossbow should be silent but maybe someone saw you firing? Always crouch!

I was crouched and out of sight for all hunters in the area (including the ones on the roof), so that wasn't the issue. Strange... it seems to be different for your version of the patch. Don't know what to make of that, really...

Nothing I can do about that, lockpicking is obviously a criminal offense that alerts enemies nearby.

Are you sure? That's very strange.... I did the Giovanni Mansion at least half a dozen times using this route, each time escaping detection - autodetection-on-picking is definitely a first for me. (Note I was already inside at this point, meaning in a combat zone, where any enemy who'd have noticed me would've attacked instantly anyway)

I made sneaking a lot harder when using the plus version.

Ah, ok - great change, in my opinion! I always felt rather silly, sitting out in the open having an enemy circling me who couldn't see me despite bumping into me every 5 secs.

Presence should work on the player, at least the screen is wobbling which is the effect that is visible.

No wobbling here, but I'll be sure to check again as soon as possible. Thanks, anyway.

No. The fetish affects the normal heal rate which is 200% and thus slower.

Aaaah, I remember now.. I think I even asked you the very same things once already. Sorry about that.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to all my questions!

[Wesp5]

i was shooting let`s say a camera (one that wasn`t 'looking' at me, it was rotated to the side) and the camera gets destroyed , and the guards come to the place from which i shot my crossbow while passing the place where the camera was instead of stopping at the place where the camera was

In that case the whole issue must be hard-coded because I don't think the guards should be able to hear exactly from where you shot when being outside your visual range at all. But the criminal level of the crossbow is 1 right now and the only thing better, namely 0, will make shooting someone point blank possible which makes no sense.

[Wesp5]

I did the Giovanni Mansion at least half a dozen times using this route, each time escaping detection - autodetection-on-picking is definitely a first for me.

I didn't change anything regarding the locked Giovanni doors that I am aware off, but I noticed that the guard around the corner would attack me after I picked the lock and then went to him.

No wobbling here, but I'll be sure to check again as soon as possible. Thanks, anyway.

This is very obvious with some of the Hallowbrook enemies. The whole view is moving!

[Houston810]

I see it like this: Not all histories offer advantages, some are meant as challenges!

Well, yes in a some of the histories are meant to be challenges. But the point is in exchange for that challenge you geta reward. Note the Blunt Fangs history. But the way you have it now, it has no reward. It's just a shot in the foot. And you might say that the reward is access to the other powers earlier in the game and some people might think that actually is a reward, but it's not. You can barley use those powers AT ALL in santa monica (and with outa boost to you thurmaturgy they are barely applicable in the game at all) and in the instances that you can, they simply aren't that effective. And by the time you get to a place where you can use them you easily have enough exp to buy them.

And more over, how is it a challenge? I mean it's not like you have to over come anything harder to get what you want. Your simply denied exp points for nothing. What's the point of that? That's nota challenge. If you want to play with a weaker character all you have to do is not lvl him. You've just removed potential. I mean the PC could could complete the game in anyway possible easy or hard and be screwed over in the end with nothing to show for it no matter what for simply picking this history.

I have a lot of gratitude for the changed you've made but this one just took away from the game. Why did you even change it in the first place?

[cornoratu]

Well, yes in a some of the histories are meant to be challenges. But the point is in exchange for that challenge you geta reward. Note the Blunt Fangs history. But the way you have it now, it has no reward. It's just a shot in the foot. And you might say that the reward is access to the other powers earlier in the game and some people might think that actually is a reward, but it's not. You can barley use those powers AT ALL in santa monica (and with outa boost to you thurmaturgy they are barely applicable in the game at all) and in the instances that you can, they simply aren't that effective. And by the time you get to a place where you can use them you easily have enough exp to buy them.

And more over, how is it a challenge? I mean it's not like you have to over come anything harder to get what you want. Your simply denied exp points for nothing. What's the point of that? That's nota challenge. If you want to play with a weaker character all you have to do is not lvl him. You've just removed potential. I mean the PC could could complete the game in anyway possible easy or hard and be screwed over in the end with nothing to show for it no matter what for simply picking this history.

I have a lot of gratitude for the changed you've made but this one just took away from the game. Why did you even change it in the first place?

Man why are you complaining so much? The Tremere are very powerful even without taking any histories and their spells are pretty good even without the boost in thaumaturgy. And anyway you`ve got a lot of other histories to choose from. Ah, yeah even if you don`t use those powers early (in Santa Monica) that extra point in Thaumaturgy will help even later in the game (it will help you get to blood salve and blood boil faster). So if you look at it, it`s not really THAT bad.

As someone said previously: instead of being more powerful in the end-game, you get to be more powerful in the early to mid-game.

EDIT: Also, if i`m not mistaken, that extra dot in thaumaturgy saves you from spending 20 points of xp to get the blood boil because i think the mechanics work like this:
Let`s say you have the 1 default point in thaumaturgy and 1 bonus point in it from the history... now when you put the third point, i think it will only cost 5xp instead of 10xp like you were supposed to, because the bonus point will move in the 3rd slot after you put the second point... and it goes like this until it saves you from putting the 20xp points for blood boil.

To put it shortly, with 1 history dot in thaumaturgy, the total cost to get max thaumaturgy would be 5+10+15 = 30 and without that extra dot it would be 5+10+15+20=50 and 50-30 = 20 xp points spent elsewere

Someone correct me if i`m wrong but i think that`s how it works or at least it should be working like that.

[Houston810]

You are wrong, but even if it did work that way I would still think it has been worsened by the change. The creators wrote a history and bonuses and penalties for that history and now it's been changed and the bonuses don't fit with the history very well at all. If you think they do you then you don't have enough WoD V:M knowledge to have an informed opinion.

[cornoratu]

You are wrong, but even if it did work that way I would still think it has been worsened by the change. The creators wrote a history and bonuses and penalties for that history and now it's been changed and the bonuses don't fit with the history very well at all. If you think they do you then you don't have enough WoD V:M knowledge to have an informed opinion.

I didn`t say the change was for the better or that the bonuses fit with the history; all i wanted to point is that this isn`t too big of a deal to complain so much about it... just pick another history and that`s that.

[Houston810]

Well obviously it's a big enough deal to me haha

But more to the point it doesn't matter if it's the smallest thing or the biggest thing. When your patching a game your taking on the responsibility of making the game as good as it can be and fixing everything you can, and you don't say "eh that's nota big deal we can leave that flaw in".

[cornoratu]

Well obviously it's a big enough deal to me haha

But more to the point it doesn't matter if it's the smallest thing or the biggest thing. When your patching a game your taking on the responsibility of making the game as good as it can be and fixing everything you can, and you don't say "eh that's nota big deal we can leave that flaw in".

I get what you`re saying... i`ve been obsessed with things like this one too

But i`m not seeing this one as a flaw. You probably noticed even at official patches on other games etc... that sometimes, some classes get nerfed for being too strong; I look at this history change as a nerf not a flaw; That`s just my point of view and i`ve got nothing against the Tremere clan or you

(They are actually my favourite clan after the Nosferatu)

And speaking of Nosferatu, i`ve seen in some thread (probably in this one ) that Wesp5 said that Bat`s communion requires 3 blood and returns 3 blood; Well that ain`t true... I can make a small vid to prove it but i don`t have where to upload it...

So Bloodsucker`s Communion works like this: I use bloodsucker communion (3 blood) then i use Obfuscate (1 blood) before the bats come back and when the bats get back i have my blood bar full. After some testing i know for sure that they return more than 4 blood like 5 or 6 i`m not sure.

And yes, i have the latest patch and i always update it as fast as possible

[Houston810]

I def think it the change was meant to nerf but really how much damg can the the blood strike to compared to a gun, there is no comparison it's so weak it's not even worth using.

[cornoratu]

I def think it the change was meant to nerf but really how much damg can the the blood strike to compared to a gun, there is no comparison it's so weak it's not even worth using.

First of all , it depends on the gun.

Secondly it`s merely the first rank of Thaumaturgy it`s not like it`s the last dot... you get it for free after all and you expect to do more dmg than a gun? (I think it does more dmg than the .38 or the crossbow and that should be enough)

The Animalism rank 2 discipline, Burrowing beetle does less damage than blood strike and it`s the second dot, not the first so you shouldn`t complain about blood strike. (Or at least it did on the vanilla version, now i don`t know how much wesp changed during his patches)

Also, you will get the Daimonori or whatever it is called in the 3rd chapter which will boost all 5 of the Thaumaturgy ranks so i think that is enough... you don`t need an even bigger boost to your powers or else the game would be too easy. If you wanna be overpowered, use cheats

The game is already too easy as it is...

I mean FFS i finished the game with all 7 (?) clans and i only died twice : once with the Toreador, and once with the Ventrue. With all the other clans INCLUDING the Tremere, i didn`t die a single time, so it`s arguably the easiest game ever.

Now this can be debated forever...
Maybe you would have better luck if you would just change the history yourself (ask for help from some1 around the forums that can do that, if you don`t know how; i don`t either )

[Wesp5]

I have a lot of gratitude for the changed you've made but this one just took away from the game. Why did you even change it in the first place?

Hmmm, can you remind me how it was in the original unused history and how it is now?