Underpowered Kits

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:56 pm

How many of you have played and enjoyed playing the underpowered kits in the game?

These include Beast Master, Wizard Slayer, pretty much any mage but Wild, Illusionist, and Conjurer, Jester etc.

I guess the category can also include vanilla thief, druid, and ranger, since there's nothing too special about them either.

It's just that I've noticed that everyone seems to play the Multi/Dual classes that are proven to be powerful all of the time, such as Kensai/Mage or thief, Ranger/Cleric (which I like, admittedly), Fighter/Thief and so on.

I was wondering who else out there likes playing the disadvantaged classes in the game as much as they like playing the powerful ones. I've personally completed the full game with a vanilla Wizard Slayer, and it was a blast.

Thinking of playing a Beast Master, possibly dualled to Cleric. Anyways, lets hear your thoughts.

Rancid Sushi · Post by **Rancid Sushi** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:44 pm

I always thought it would be cool to play any of the druid kits, but somehow never bothered. I was too busy playing with the fun, powerful classes to care about Totemics or Avengers, but I might just try one of these days. The role player in me also says 'no' to druids. I can't imagine why the PC would be a druid when he/she grew up in Candlekeep. Unless maybe wandering around in the wilderness between BG1 and BG2 inspired something? I dunno.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri May 15, 2009 12:06 am

A mage? Underpowered? Hardly. I don't think you can call any arcane spellcaster underpowered. As for the Jester, it's the same thing as playing a normal bard. Either way, the song gets replaced sooner or later.

Shapeshifters (Shapeshifter/Fighters especially) are very powerful, also are Kensai/Druids.

As for the Beaster Master, I'm unsure. I have seen deviations in his damage and THAC0 in comparison to the ranged of same stats, level and equipment before.

Again, I can't call ANY thief underpowered. Backstabs and traps are very strong.

AvatarOfLight · Post by **AvatarOfLight** » Fri May 15, 2009 6:10 am

Human Paladin - Cavalier, obviously single classed.
Wouldn't call it an underpowered kit at all, but it's no powerhouse either.
Playing it through Ascension atm. Yaga-Shura is a B**** >_<

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Fri May 15, 2009 9:53 am

A cavalier is reallly powerful. I played one. The guy's unstoppable: Carsomyr + high level AoF + Hardtiness, and he's both resilient and dices baddies like there's no tomorrow with GWW. The innate resistance to fear is sweet too.

I would consider a beast master underpowered. I've played a Ranger and an Archer before and a beast master is lame in comparison. So many weapon restrictions and the only thing he gets compared to the standard ranger is a bunch of crappy summons that are useful only for triggering traps during a solo run.

The swashbuckler also looks to be nothing out of the ordinary. A standard fighter/thief would be better in nearly every respect.

For improved Yaga Shura try the FoA on him using DoE offhand for a further 20% dmg reduction. That should get you at least 80% resistance to melee. Time stop + harm is also good. I've killed him many ways using both arcane and melee. I find it to be a very satisfying fight

CFM · Post by **CFM** » Fri May 15, 2009 10:38 am

My run through the game was as a single-classed Priest of Lathander cleric.

In BG1 and SoA, he was fun and versitile. I could play him as a tank, or a defensive buffer/healer, or an offensive spellcaster/summoner, or most any other playstyle.

In ToB, he was somewhat of a lesser character during combat, sadly, and was often relegated to acting as a spellcaster only. But this may have been my own fault. By ToB, I had been playing BG1, TotSC, and SoA as one epic game for over 12 months straight, and I was anxious to get to the end of the Saga. So I may have rushed many of the ToB combats to reach the conclusion, and may not have utilized all my dude's options to their fullest.

But up till ToB, he (in and of himself) was alot of fun.

AvatarOfLight · Post by **AvatarOfLight** » Fri May 15, 2009 10:44 am

Getting offtopic, my apologies:
Thanks for the Defender of Easthaven mention.
I didn't even know this item existed, had to look it up and spawned the merchant through console.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Fri May 15, 2009 12:12 pm

I guess I should have called this thread "Less Common Classes", because, as Cren said, a Mage is never really overpowered even if they're missing a class. Though, if I remember correctly, there is a mage kit that loses TWO schools of magic, and that would definitely hurt.

The Defender of Easthaven is purchased from Joluv, the bonus merchant in the Copper Coronet.

I've beaten this game fully just three times, but each time was with a single classed character. In order, Half-elf Assassin, Human Wizard Slayer, and Half-elf Swashbuckler.

I'm almost certain that I'm going to play a Beast Master, just trying to decide if dual-classing it is worth it considering the fact that I would have to wait until level 12 for it to be truly viable.

AvatarOfLight · Post by **AvatarOfLight** » Fri May 15, 2009 2:15 pm

Berethor wrote:The Defender of Easthaven is purchased from Joluv, the bonus merchant in the Copper Coronet.

Got the DVD version, patched and with ascension but I assure you, this merchant isn't there. Apparently I can download a copper coronet override file from someone and it'll work, but since I'm already in ToB I must resort to the console.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Fri May 15, 2009 2:34 pm

You can download the separate bonus merchant files from this website, or install it while you're going through the list of options when installing Gibberlings 3's BG2Fixpack(or tweaks, can't remember).

He's always there for me, so you probably ran into a problem when trying to copy the files into the override directory.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri May 15, 2009 2:52 pm

Personally, I'd tough it out until you can take Hardiness a few times and then dual, if you're soloing that is.

Settle for something like 21 Beast Master/ 25 Cleric. The playstyle really shouldn't be any different from the Ranger/Cleric multiclass, except the whole transition phase as well as the restrictions and you'll probably end up using Club of Detonation +5 and Blackblood +3 as your main melee weapons. Your THAC0 will be about -11 or so when unbuffed and around -15 when buffed, so you either way, it's good.

From your equipment choices, the only things that should be different are the weapons and the main armor piece. At best, unbuffed, it should be -16 and -24 buffed. You'll also be making four attacks per round.

That's with my approach to the class combination. So, it's not really all that weak lategame, it's the early game that might give you issues.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri May 15, 2009 2:54 pm

The bonus merchants were part of the bonus content included on the CD that was packaged with the Special Edition.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Fri May 15, 2009 4:43 pm

I don't know if I'm willing to play a Beast Master for 21 levels by myself. If I go that route, I'm thinking of playing with a 3 or 4 man party.

Then again, if I can survive long enough to make it to 21, then I will be in good position for the rest of the game. I just might try it out solo.

I remember reading a thread you made a couple of years ago Cren, regarding Beast Master being better than we had originally thought. It's what really got me intrigued.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri May 15, 2009 6:07 pm

A lot of people that posted there said that they couldn't tell the difference between the offensive ability of the Beast Master when compared to a different type of ranger. As I stated before, for some reason, the damage output and the chance to hit was significantly greater for that kit.

Also, I recall someone of our members saying that when playing the Jester's song, it actually affected Demogorgon. When I tried playing through with the kit, I didn't have the same luck however.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Fri May 15, 2009 7:01 pm

How can a Beastmaster have higher damage output than a standard ranger? They both use the same tables for Thac0 saves AC ect ect. If the beast master is using some overlooked wooden weapon, that can certainly be equipped on a Ranger.

Anyways after reading a few Legend of Drizzt books I felt the urge for a run through again

What do you guys think of solo Chaotic Evil, Elven, Wizard Slayer/Assasin. I like the concept from an role playing perspective but it feels wrong somehow

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri May 15, 2009 7:16 pm

Well, in the thread that Berethor mentioned, VonDondu mentioned that the Beastmaster has a built in +4 to THAC0. It's possible that there are more things within the kit itself. When I did my damage testing, I had him use Staff of the Ram + 6 as well as the Club of Detonation +5 and Blackblood + 3 combination and nothing else.

As or your next playthrough, the double kit combination is not possible legally. You can also use a bug to add x2 (or a limitless ammount) to your backstab multiplier. Assassin/Fighter is nothing special but a Wizard Slayer/Thief (dualed at 14) is pretty good.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Fri May 15, 2009 9:04 pm

I've never noticed a THAC0 bonus for Beast Masters in my short testing games with them. They seemed like a nerfed Ranger until they got their first summon animals spell, and even then they were weak.

I guess I missed something, but it's actually interesting to think about.

Rancid Sushi · Post by **Rancid Sushi** » Fri May 15, 2009 9:31 pm

I've heard of people soloing Beastmasters successfully. One guy on here (I think) soloed a Priest of Lathander all through SoA and ToB.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Fri May 15, 2009 9:52 pm

Any caster has a distinct advantage over a straight up melee-type. The problems that will likely arise with soloing a Beast Master will arise in two phases.

One will be gaining levels while using a quarterstaff or dual clubs as your weapons. You need to get to about level 12 before thinking about dualing it into a Cleric, if that is your path of choice.

The second will come the moment you dual class to cleric. You will need to leave some quest unfinished to be able to gain experience fast.

I might try it out, but it might be quite a challenge.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri May 15, 2009 11:15 pm

Priests aren't all that hard to solo, considering the amount of buffs and heals you possess, not to mention the abilities you can gain gain through items.

Well, if you're soloing a Beastmaster, you have your summons at the very start. Gnasher and Blackblood are available early game (the latter will stay with you until the end).

Gaining experience really shouldn't be a problem, even if you decide not to leave any unfinished as there's just so many of them to do. You just have to pick your quests wisely.