BGTutu as Bard with Canonical Party?

Whomper · Post by **Whomper** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:57 pm

I'm currently planning a playthrough of BGTutu->BG2:ToB as a Bard (Blade). I've finished BG and BG2 in the past, but never ToSC or ToB.

For RP purposes, I thought I'd play through BGTutu with the BG2 canonical party: Minsc, Khalid, Imoen, Dynahier, Jaheira, with Imoen dual-classed to Mage at L7.

Now, that's quite a magic-heavy party - will it be able to cut it in BG/ToSC, where brawn tends to be more of a factor? ToSC is a particular concern, as the werewolves made me into mincemeat before. I'm guessing having three ranged weapon types might help compensate, and the Blade should be able to kick a little arse using his spins at higher levels.

My other concern is Khalid - his stats aren't bad, but I just have too many bad memories of him turning chicken and legging it. Am I right in saying this is due to a low natural morale score, and I should be able to counter it by ensuring I have a charismatic leader (or someone with a certain ring), or in a pinch, playing Bardsong?

One other query - assuming I don't steal Drizzt's armour (I'm not going to), what's the best armour for a spellcasting bard? Is it just bracers, AC reducing magic items and hope?

I'm not averse to using Shadowkeeper to do a one-off redistribution of proficiencies/kits (but I don't change other stats), so I thought I'd give Minsc dual-wield swords/axes, Khalid two-handed swords and bows, Jaheira staves and slings, and make Imoen a Swashbuckler for the AC bonus and better proficiencies (I never use her to backstab anyway). My Blade will largely be using the light crossbow of speed, with blunts and swords on the side.

Sound like it'll be a decent party? I have great plans my Blade, Minsc and Imoen in BG2 (although Jaheria's getting the boot - I'll be going a bit more morally off-piste than suits a Harper).

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:01 am

If you install the BG1 NPC project, you can get some elven mail when you get to Baldur's Gate, otherwise, I think that you are right about the armour.

The mod also adds some other nice little tweaks which I like.

I cannot see any reason why that party can't hack it. What I would do is delay Khalid and Jaheira joining you until you have a bit of experience under your belt. That way they start at a slightly higher level and are therefore better able to cope.

I often talk to Marl, help Melicamp, the archaeologist and Brage before getting my main party.
An extra level or two makes quite a difference.

Whomper · Post by **Whomper** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:33 am

wise grimwald wrote:If you install the BG1 NPC project, you can get some elven mail when you get to Baldur's Gate, otherwise, I think that you are right about the armour.

Ah, that sounds good. Googling on that - I take it that its from the Bounty Hunter on the bridge outside BG that the mod adds. Do I have to have Kivan in my party, or will they be there anyway?

I quite fancy dual-wielding daggers. A bit weird, I know, but it's fun from an RP perspective, they're lightning fast and there's no shortage of good +2 ones in BG and +4 ones in BG2. Means I can make good use of the +1 dagger freebie in Candlekeep, too.

Looking forward to this!

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:31 am

Although your party has 3 arcane casters and 1 divine caster, I don't find it to be 'magic-heavy' at all. In fact, it is fighter-heavy (Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc and PC). So no trouble.

About werewolves - hide your weak characters under Invisibility while battling them.

About armor - the best armor for a Bard are his spells! Shield at lower levels, Ghost Armor at mid-levels, Spirit Armor at higher levels. Don't know if a Blade can cast 4-th level spells under TOTSC xp cap, if so, make another mage in the party (Dynaheir?) cast Spirit Armor on PC. Augment the armor spell with illusion buffs (Blur, Mirror Image), and Protection from Evil and voila! Here is your very decent AC. If needed, augment further via Defensive spin.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:49 am

Saros is completely right and yes, in ToSC you will be able to access level four spells as a bard.

You always want to have an armor spell on you and use weapons that give a a large bonus to THAC0.

Also, utilize those wands! They make everything so much easier.

As for Defensive Spin, remember that using it with Free Action allows you to move.

The way I go through BG takes into account the massive abuse of backstabbing, so you might want to consider that as well. I think it makes all hard fights very easy. So with Imoen there, you shouldn't have any worries. Just give her a high THAC0 weapon and improve her strength.

GenericUser1994 · Post by **GenericUser1994** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:22 am

I played through BG1 and ToTSC with that exact party (and PC a Bard, nonTutu). Worked well, I just gave everyone a ranged weapon and had Khalid pumped up with AC and boots of speed. Ranged weapons are ridiculsly strong in BG1.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:00 pm

If you want that elven armour, it is best to take Kivan at least temporarily.
You would have to be very lucky to get it by just attacking her as she teleports away.

There are little extra quests for a number of NPCs so it can be worthwhile leaving an empty slot to bring them in as required.

The mod does add interest for those who know the game backwards and if you have a low charisma there is a ring that boosts it to 18 fairly early in the game. Very nice.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:08 pm

When I last played TuTu (a few years back) I found it to be very glitchy and very "graphically unbalanced", where some things looked as if they were simply cut out from the original and plastered into SoA, making it visually unappealing. I suppose I also have to say that for me, I prefer the old paper dolls and interface to the ones in SoA.

Whomper · Post by **Whomper** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:32 am

Whoop, I am up and rocking. Getting BGTutu to work on a Mac with Crossover Games was... interesting.

Crenshinibon - Tutu looks very professional now, especially with the degreenifier and the BG1 User Interface mods. Playing it at 1024x768 feels flawless.

It's been so long since I played BG1 that I'd forgotten how hopelessly powerless L1 characters are - Imoen and my Bard got pwned a few times by Wolves/Dire Wolves, although the Bard showed his worth against the gibberlings - offensive spin is marvellous, it was like pushing the critters into a lawnmower. I've never been so glad to see Khalid and Jaheira.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:12 am

I'll check it out again.

From what I read here, I have to ask, does it actually add any new encounters?

Also, Tutu doesn't affect anything in SoA itself (after you finish BG1), right?

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:46 am

I haven't played Tutu for a couple of years, but last time I did there was no noticeable difference other than the graphics and the class kits etc. ... the only new encounters/quests etc. were from mods I installed that were designed to be used with Tutu.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:10 am

The differences that I have noticed are: enemies follow you through doors and some neutrals will fight for you. Hence if you run away from Karlat through the door, Karlat will follow and will get attacked by Silke. This can be useful for weakening Silke!
You can no longer get the party in the training room in Candlekeep to join you.

It is harder to kill Tazok at the bandit camp.
You cannot use protection from magic on the demonknight at the top of Durlag's Tower in order to kill him. Indeed you cannot use protection from magic on any enemy.
There are few other differences, but in general, nothing major.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:57 am

So no new items are added also?

Does the transition affect pickpockets?

Does TuTu enforce the 161,000 experience cap or does it let you go all the way up to that of ToB? (I ask because on my current playthrough, my gnomish illusionist/thief hit the cap before even starting Nashkel Mines, so continuing to level would make him too strong).

Is Algeron's Cloak affected?

As for spells, I assume you can't get any of the "new" ones unless you're playing a sorcerer or a priest, right? There are no BGII scrolls scattered around, right?

Since you can pick new spells on character creation too, how is the familiar? How does Tutu handle your familiar transfering to SoA, as you lose it?

I assume that the SoA/ToB parts are unaffected?

Also, I believe I asked this a few years back, and am still interested if it's possible to use the BG1 models in TuTu or in SoA/ToB?

When your character goes through to SoA, do you get to repick your proficiencies, like you do now? As it's quite disadvantageous to play SoA and on using the proficiencies you used in BG1 (as you'd pick hammers in BG1 as a starting weapon for a priest whereas in SoA you'd pick a flail or as a bard you'd pick longswords in the first and scimitars in the latter).

I assume that the NPCs themselves are unaffected?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions, if someone chooses to answer that is.

Whomper · Post by **Whomper** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:22 am

Crenshinibon wrote:So no new items are added also?

Does the transition affect pickpockets?

Not sure what you mean by that?

Does TuTu enforce the 161,000 experience cap or does it let you go all the way up to that of ToB? (I ask because on my current playthrough, my gnomish illusionist/thief hit the cap before even starting Nashkel Mines, so continuing to level would make him too strong).

XP cap is on, although it's easily removed.

Is Algeron's Cloak affected?

Seems to work much as I remember it. +2 to charisma and pretty much infinite charm person. However, I don't think you can talk to charmed people as you could in vanilla BG1.

As for spells, I assume you can't get any of the "new" ones unless you're playing a sorcerer or a priest, right? There are no BGII scrolls scattered around, right?

No BG2 scrolls unless you mod them in, from what I've seen. Some of the spells are slightly different in BG2 though, and you've got the BG2 versions in Tutu.

Since you can pick new spells on character creation too, how is the familiar? How does Tutu handle your familiar transfering to SoA, as you lose it?

The familiar seems to work exactly as it did in BG2. I'll answer the other question when I import my Bard over - I'm curious what'll happen to my extra familiar-derived HP too.

I assume that the SoA/ToB parts are unaffected?

I used EasyTutu, which copies selected files from full-installations of BG1+ToSC and BG2+ToB, creating an entirely new folder and leaving them untouched. A bit hard on the disk-space, but I've got far more than I know what to do with these days.

Also, I believe I asked this a few years back, and am still interested if it's possible to use the BG1 models in TuTu or in SoA/ToB?

Not sure. I know there's a tweak to put hoods back on unarmored bards, though.

When your character goes through to SoA, do you get to repick your proficiencies, like you do now? As it's quite disadvantageous to play SoA and on using the proficiencies you used in BG1 (as you'd pick hammers in BG1 as a starting weapon for a priest whereas in SoA you'd pick a flail or as a bard you'd pick longswords in the first and scimitars in the latter).

I haven't got there yet, but I'm guessing it'll work the same as importing any other character. My bard uses daggers, crossbows and short-swords, but each to their own.

I assume that the NPCs themselves are unaffected?

The mod diddles with their proficiencies a bit (Khalid is dual-wielding - bizarre), but I've always been one to redistribute proficiencies of NPCs using Shadowkeeper, so a non-issue for me. There are tweaks out there that let you set Viconia/Jaheira/Minsc/Edwin to their superior, BG2 stats, but they're not applied by default.

Thanks in advance for answering my questions, if someone chooses to answer that is.

The Tutu forum at PocketPlane or the EasyTutu FAQ may answer more of your questions.

My party have started to get fairly beefy now, although dualling Imoen to Mage at Thief L7 (for consistency with BG2) means it'll be a bit of a challenge to get her thief skills back in time for Durlag's Tower. I'm attempting to compensate through use of Knock, Detect Traps (Priest) and kitting Minsc out with various protection artifacts (boots, rings, etc) and just legging it through traps. The boots of speed I've just acquired will help here.

I'm absolutely loving the amount of magic I have to throw around with this party - just did the battle outside Cloakwood Mines, and the skies were full of fireballs, magic missiles and lightning strikes. I wish I had some Elven Chain though...

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:39 am

Thanks for your responses.

I don't think you need elven chain and it's better used by someone else.

Even in BGII I find my bards wearing no armor until they get UAI, as Armor/Ghost Armor/Spirit Armor cover all your AC needs.

I think I'll try TuTu on my next playthrough, after I finish the game with my illusionist/thief, who recently made it to BG2 and is currently at Chapter 3.

Whomper · Post by **Whomper** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:53 am

Just polished off Aec'LaTec - this is a very powerful party, I had no cause to be concerned.

The whole battle was an advert for performance enhancing drugs - everyone drank about four potions before going in. My blade ended it with a hit doing 36 damage (Minsc, high on Cloud Giant juice, managed something in he mid-60s at one point), although for some reason his bio still states that Davaeron was his biggest kill.

Just got to mop up Sarevok and co, and we're on to BG2. With five pips in Two Handed Swords and the Two Handed Sword +3, I'll almost miss Khalid. I'll certainly miss Dynaheir's cloudkills, although her spell school has been a hindrance, given as a lot of BG1's useful higher level spells are charm based. Looking forward to having a cleric as well as a druid - lots of the more offensive holy spells just waiting to be tapped.