Why bother with Inquisitors when....? PoH/F

sebadelphia · Post by **sebadelphia** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:56 am

I am amazed (and I apologise if I am wrong) but I am truly astounded that no-one as of yet has tried the CLASSIC

Preist of helm L.12 dual classed to a fighter. Although true sight is about half a second slower and there are fewer goes, as well as a lower health, why would you need this as thacO will plummet, and no-one really needed all that much health anyway (unless you are an 'insane' difficulty level fan), and 5 stars on hammer is always useful with a guy that can cast up to level 6 cleric spells.

Who needs a cleric who cannot fight? Who needs any more wussy healing spells anyway. Try it. try it. try it. There is no more efficient use of one character!!

Jordoo · Post by **Jordoo** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:04 am

I'd much rather have a level 13 fighter dualed to Preist of Helm than the otherway around. Anomen becomes very powerful and usefull. He was dualed at level 7 and has pretty crappy stats. Remember alot of preist spells become more powerfull as your level increases. Even better than either playu a multi class FI/CL or CL/RA. CL/RA with Rightious Magic, Armor of Faith, Iron Skins, Caotic Commands, Hardiness, Greater Wirlwind, Summon Palantier and the right equipement is a Holy Wrecking Ball of Epic Proportions and can do all that without any other charactrers help.

As far as Inquisitors, the also get to dispell magic at twice their level instantaniously, have crazy good saving throws and they can wield the best weapon in the game which a dualed priest to Fighter could not.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:54 am

I agree with Jordoo, dual classing from cleric to fighter is a very trange way of going about it, especially at 12th level, before you get 7th level spells.

I tend to agree with the idea of Paladins being not really worth it mind, Carsomyr is good, but not THAT good, but DCing from fighter to cleric (I usually do it at 9th, but there are very good arguments for doig it at 13th) is the way to go. Pile all your proficiency points into the right weapons of course, I tend to go flail/hammer or flail/mace depending on alignment. With good parties, or parties with a Druid in I go flail/mace as logically Crom Feyr isn't available, but otherwise Flail of Ages + Crom Feyr takes some beating.

Jordoo · Post by **Jordoo** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:31 am

galraen, I hear what your saying about Paladin Kits and yes a Dual or Multu class Fighter with a spellcasting second class is going to be more powerfull. But Paladins can be very powerfull in there own right, they are great for role playing and BGII offers you 3 pretty different kits which is nice. If I am using a small Party I avoid single classed Fighters of any type but if its a big Party I love to have at least one because they take almost no micromanagment to use to there fullest, cast caotic commands on them and send them in flailing away. Barbarian's and Berzerkers may be better for that use but I love having an Inquisitor or a Cavalier as my party leader if I have 5or6 characters.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:33 am

I think the original poster's point in dual classing the priest of help to a fighter is perhaps to take advantage of the three extra attacks granted by the blade. A cleric by itself is a strong fighter, only lacking in attacks per round and as for the multiclass as well as dual class combinations, I think the only ones that are worth it are Kensai/Cleric dual class as well as the Ranger/Cleric multiclass.

Unfortunately you can't dual from a Fighter to a Priest of Helm, as the blade wound works very well with the blade.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:50 am

The Inquisitor is a pure powergaming class. That dispel magic and true sight spell just makes every enemy spell caster and boss monster toast.
Sure it is "only" a paladin, but being able to practically dispel any defensive ability on every enemy is priceless.
Especially seeing as it is as powerful as twice his level.

sebadelphia · Post by **sebadelphia** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:10 pm

As Crenshinibon says, dualling the other way is impossible, and the extra attacks are handy. I have also found that cleric spells have never really made an impact (other than doom) rather than save time in comparison to the range and usefulness that mage spells offer. (and a few druid spells like those awesome insects)

I have always been a fan of the more mage heavy party, and condensing all of the required cleric spells (no-one ever REALLY needed level 7 cleric spells when it boils down to it, even on insane) into a character that can fight better - crom faeyr/runehammer pending - than any of your other characters.

After being so frustrated with Anomen (besides his voice) who dies loads, and Viconia (who wont just KILL!! the undead) who also dies loads, as well as Keldorn (who just needs more than weapon specialisation), and don't even get me started on Aerie(!!), I honestly think that this is the best character to go for. It really has to be tried to be believed

Jordoo · Post by **Jordoo** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:53 pm

How are you getting Anomen killed all the time?
Viconia and Airie are both very powerfull NPC's although I do understand your frustration with Viconia not being able to just chunck undead.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:10 pm

Aerie is actually one of the most powerful characters in the game, and like Jordoo I'm puzzled ho you can keep getting a tank like Anomen killed.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:13 pm

No offense meant, but I think it's just your playstyle because in my book (and in accordance with my playstyle) Aerie is either the first or second most powerful NPC. As for any cleric, they CAN fight, you just have to buff them.

I think that Doom isn't worth a spell slot and that Armor of Faith is simply amazing. Draw Upon Holy Might can give you a quick boost of stats (as well as THAC0 and any skills you might have if part thief). Animate Dead as well as Holy Smite/Unholy Blight are both great spells that are useful throughout the game. Then, to give you that fighting edge, we have Holy Power, Champion's Strength and Righteous Magic (this gives us a THAC0 that's better than that of a fighter). If you're part ranger, you get Iron Skins, which makes you even more of a tank with your good AC and damage resistance. Looking at level six spells we have Heal, which is self explanatory, Wondrous Recall, which lets you cast your spells more (in the case of a pure cleric or a cleric/mage combination) and of course, my favorite priest spell, Harm. This reduces anyone it hits a single hit point. Needless to say, it's very powerful - however, I beliueve that it should only be used as a Kensai/Cleric or in combination with Critical Strike. I'd get level seven spells after all for the Regeneration and perhaps the Aura of Flaming Death, for that extra AC boost. Regeneration, coupled with your resistance, lets you tank as almost as much damage as a mage could (and that's

Now, not killing undead with Turn Undead CAN be viewed as a disadvantage, but keep in mind that you can control undead too. Use this in combination with a low intelligence Limited Wish. That gives you a bunch of Vampire minions. Most powerful summon spell right there.

Since you're choosing a Priest of Helm, your primary weapon shouldn't matter as much, but would be best if it were the Flail of Ages as it's useful for most cases. Off hand you want Defender of Easthaven. Crom Fayer's strength boost is meaningless for a cleric and is wasted on you. Consider giving it to someone that will be on the front lines a lot or even a low strength thief.

sebadelphia · Post by **sebadelphia** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:01 pm

No offence taken. I've never been the most patient player of BG2, so excuse me when I have bias (Aerie's voice could curdle my blood- Anomen too). That too goes for my impatience when it comes to priest spells, and the many variations and types of the "buff" spell. Perhaps I would use them more if their casting speeds were less cumbersome, and I weren't sat there unclicking the autopause all the time.

The characters die all the time because I always play on insane nowadays, the game doesn't give enough of a challenge otherwise. I have always found that if a fight is done correctly, it should be possible to avoid taking a hit, and therefore negate the need for endless buff spells, even though I admit to be a fan of Armor of Faith and Aura of Flaming death. I havent actually played a game with Aerie since I first played - haha she annoyed me so much, so excuse my ignorance on the matter.

Even so, I can never be bothered to wait 15 levels for a 15% reduction in damage when monsters do over 200% damage anyway, and why wait for them to hit..

At least Righteous magic is good.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:05 pm

I'm pretty sure that everyone that posted in this thread plays on insane as well. As for impatience when buffing oneself with spells, use contingencies. They're always useful.

I usually solo the game, but since you have a party, utilize their skills when fighting the monsters. That, or choose your quests selectively. Defender of Easthaven gives you 20% damage resistance right off the bat and it's not that expensive. Also, use those wands. A lot of people ignore them, but they are ever useful.

In my experience, unless fighting special characters, they all die in less than a turn, and that's with a single character mind you. Remember to improve your THAC0 and give spells to characters that don't have them.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:42 am

I wouldn't say that a Cleric kit dualled to Fighter or a Fighter kit dualled to cleric can be more powerful than a single paladin kit. Paladins can become pretty hard to crack later in the game, with the combination of Armor of Faith + hardiness + defender of Easthaven. In addition, Paladins can use powerful bladed weapons, and Carsomyr for dispellation/magic protection.

I wouldn't however put Inquisitors as 'most powerful' of all paladins. They have True Sight and Dispel magic, which is nice, however they lack Armor of Faith and Draw Upon Holy Might, which is bad. I think that the second two options are better for a solo (better fighting skills and resistances) as well as for a party Paladin (because Dispel Magic is often impossible to target in such a fasion that it affects only opponents).

IMHO the best Paladin kit is the Cavalier, because of the nice immunities and bonuses with almost no drawback.

prune1 · Post by **prune1** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:17 am

sebadelphia wrote:
The characters die all the time because I always play on insane nowadays, the game doesn't give enough of a challenge otherwise.

If you're looking for a challenge then, unless you mean you're using these already AND on insane, I suggest you try some mods like sword coast strategems II, tactics, improved anvil, among others.

These increase the difficulty not through "double damage OMG!" but rather by the AI being a little more clever. I personally recommend SCSII; and the kind of things you can expect are thieves actually using those invisibility potions they carry around to open up with backstabs on your characters rather than leaving them untouched to give you free loot!

Anyways, I highly recommend an AI difficulty increasing mod; I play on core rules with such things so to let you know.

Of course, if you know about these and use them then the above is pretty moot.

sebadelphia · Post by **sebadelphia** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:20 am

that sounds really good. where do I get this AI increasing mod?

safe

prune1 · Post by **prune1** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:16 am

Ah, sounds like someone new to mods for BG/BG2 then!

Well, SCSII is available from a website called 'The Gibberlings Three', which contains other mods too you might like.

There are other websites too; I think improved anvil is from 'spellhold studios'; regardless that is another website full of mods.

There's also 'Pocket plane group' which has some awesome mods.

There are mods that add dialogue for example, and good ones at that - unless you open up the added dialogue or notice the lack of voicing (though a lot of stuff isn't voiced in the normal game either) you cannot tell these are mods often; such is the quality of mods lke banter pack and IEP.

Anyhows, I'll let you do some reseacrh yourself but it is a lot of stuff! So all i recommend is get the fixpack from gibberling 3 and the SCSII mod mentioned. All else is up to you and what you enjoy most, whether the fighting aspects or the dialogue/story (or both!).

Enjoy.

sebadelphia · Post by **sebadelphia** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:10 pm

awesome. I may never stop playing BG2 after all. I only recently stopped playing planescape as well...my finals seriously suffered. I'm gonna check these mods out thanks prune.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:02 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:I'm pretty sure that everyone that posted in this thread plays on insane as well.

=X

<--Core Rules

Haven't given Insane a try yet. Does it utilize the Core Rules, but with higher damage? What's the story here?

On topic, a Priest of Helm dual-classed to fighter is not worth it compared to a Fighter/Cleric or especially a Ranger/Cleric. You will have a more limited casting selection, and a +4 sword that silences you isn't worth losing things like Ironskins(if R/C)/Shield of the Archons or other useful druidic/clerical spells.

On another note, you can make a Kensai/Cleric???

Sounds crazy, need tips!

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:22 pm

As far as I know, that's what Insane mode is.

Essentially, the Priest of Helm/Fighter combination is useless, even when buffed, due to an abysmal THAC0.

The Kensai/Cleric is a very powerful class combination, and I'm convinced that you CANNOT duel before level 22. The way I planned the use of this character is to take advantage of the Kensai's inherent bonuses, since they apply to ALL weapons. This makes the dual class the best at delivering the harm spell, which as we know reduced the target to a single hit point.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:32 pm

How high will the Cleric level get after the Kensai is level 22? I'd assume somewhere in the range of ~27 since Multi-class ranger/clerics hit 21R/25C, and Fighters level up faster than Rangers. Still, I'm not sure.

And I would assume that such a build would really only shine when playing solo or with very small groups, correct?

The build overall sounds like it would likely be a bit of a glass-cannon type of character due to the Vanilla Cleric's mild shortage of defense boosting abilities.