Negative armour - effect

Thing · Post by **Thing** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:27 pm

Several of my characters have armour at minus 1 or minus 2. Can anyone tell me whether this will actually increase their armour or whether the effect bottoms out at zero armour?
Thanks

AvatarOfLight · Post by **AvatarOfLight** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:43 pm

These are D&D 2 rules. The lower your armor rating the better.
With regards to what is legally achievable, there is no armor cap in Baldur's Gate.

The manual has more on the D&D 2.0 rules.
replacementdocs: Downloads / PC (DOS/Windows) / Baldurs Gate

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:45 pm

Negative AC is better. The lower the value of AC - the better.

However, I think that in BG series, Armor Class caps at -24. No further equipping of protective items will improve AC further, unless it's related to the specific AC modifiers (which cap at -20).

Eldoth · Post by **Eldoth** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:27 am

So what's the lowest you can get to in Baldur's Gate 1? I've just started playing again after years away and I can't remember getting much lower than -6 or -7?

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:36 am

The lowest I got would be around -13 or so. SPOILERS ABOUND!

10 base.
Fullplate, which sets the base to 1.
18/19 DEX, which with the use of the Tome and Holy Might (2nd lvl Cleric spell) gets to 21, which means -5 AC.
-2 Ring of Protection.
-2 from Twinkle if you kill Drizzt.
-1 from the Helm of Balduran.
-1 from the Cloak of Balduran.
-3 from a +2 Shield.
-3 from Blur.
-4 from Improved Invisibility.
Mirror Image and Stoneskin for extra protection.

That's -20, right? I'm sure I forgot something.

Eldoth · Post by **Eldoth** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:21 am

Thanks Gawain. That certainly gives me something to aim for. Not sure my Paladin will be able to justify killing Drizzt though (or wielding a sword called Twinkle for that matter).

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:25 am

Eldoth wrote:Thanks Gawain. That certainly gives me something to aim for. Not sure my Paladin will be able to justify killing Drizzt though (or wielding a sword called Twinkle for that matter).

It's theory. I never kill Drizzt myself.

Jordoo · Post by **Jordoo** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:15 am

Don't forget your Paladin isn't all knowing but probably does know Drow are evil, hey mistakes happen all the time!

Eldoth · Post by **Eldoth** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:04 am

That's true. And judging by her intelligence score she ain't that bright. So even if she's heard of him she's probably forgotten who he is.:mischief:

Jordoo · Post by **Jordoo** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:26 am

Eldoth wrote:That's true. And judging by her intelligence score she ain't that bright. So even if she's heard of him she's probably forgotten who he is.:mischief:

Just don't forget to make sure your Reputation is high before you do it because you'll take a hit of like 6, which is easily fixed at a temple, but if you drop to low you'll become a Fallen Paladin. (Fighter)

Eldoth · Post by **Eldoth** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:44 am

To be honest I wouldn't do it with my Paladin character. She's a good girl and I'd feel guilty if I made her do bad stuff ...

Jordoo · Post by **Jordoo** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:42 am

I played a Paladin and made him a Fallen Paladin right away for Role Playing purposses before, it was actually alot of fun seeing the taint of Bhaal in the once young aspiring squire. Plus Kaigan, Ewin and Viconia are three of the best NPC's in BGI along with Kivan and Coran.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:10 pm

Just to add to Gawain's list. In Durlag's Tower there is plate +3 and there are probably other items as well.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:23 pm

That plate would push it to -21, theoretically. Nice find.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:46 pm

However the plate +3 cannot be worn with a ring of protection +2 normally.

A player can use a Potion of Defense (or Invulnerability) to set base AC to 0. Still, full plate has the great advantage of adding +3 piercing and missile AC modifiers, and 4 slashing as well.

In addition, Improved Invisibility doesn't add 4 to AC, but instead substracts 4 from enemy to hit rolls, which basically for BG1 is one and the same, but not for BG2.

An elven character with a potion of Mind Focusing, Manual of Quickness of Action and Draw Upon Holy Might (in chapters 6 or 7) can achieve 25 Dexterity for I think 3 bonus AC (compared to 18 or 19 dex character).

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:10 pm

Saros wrote:However the plate +3 cannot be worn with a ring of protection +2 normally.

A player can use a Potion of Defense (or Invulnerability) to set base AC to 0. Still, full plate has the great advantage of adding +3 piercing and missile AC modifiers, and 4 slashing as well.

In addition, Improved Invisibility doesn't add 4 to AC, but instead substracts 4 from enemy to hit rolls, which basically for BG1 is one and the same, but not for BG2.

An elven character with a potion of Mind Focusing, Manual of Quickness of Action and Draw Upon Holy Might (in chapters 6 or 7) can achieve 25 Dexterity for I think 3 bonus AC (compared to 18 or 19 dex character).

I wasn't counting the +3 Plate and the Ring both in the -21, only the Plate.

Since it's BG1 we're talking about, I don't see the point about Improved Invisibility. Besides, AC gets used against attack rolls. What's the practical difference, in the end? It makes the enemy 20% less likely to hit in most cases.

The difference between 18 DEX and 21 DEX is a -1. 18 gives -4, 21 -5, 24-25 gives -6.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:07 am

GawainBS wrote:I wasn't counting the +3 Plate and the Ring both in the -21, only the Plate.

Since it's BG1 we're talking about, I don't see the point about Improved Invisibility. Besides, AC gets used against attack rolls. What's the practical difference, in the end? It makes the enemy 20% less likely to hit in most cases.

If you have the ring +2 and a potion of Defense equipped, you'll have a better AC by 2 in comparison to a +3 plate and no protection ring. BTW, it's better to use Tamoko's Full Plate +1 anyway for the same AC set to 0 instead, because of the Full Plate's better AC modifiers in comparison to the simple Plate.

As for II: AC caps at 24 (or 26, don't remember exactly - sometimes it seems to cap at 24, sometimes at 26). Now, if a capped Armor class is improved by Improved Invisibility, it will worsen the chances of the enemies to hit by 4 more points. If Improved Invisibility actually added 4 bonus to Armor Class(instead of substracting 4 from enemy to hit rolls), then at capped AC of 24(or 26), Improved invisibility would grant no further bonus to AC (i.e. would be useless as AC improvement).

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:32 am

Saros wrote:If you have the ring +2 and a potion of Defense equipped, you'll have a better AC by 2 in comparison to a +3 plate and no protection ring. BTW, it's better to use Tamoko's Full Plate +1 anyway for the same AC set to 0 instead, because of the Full Plate's better AC modifiers in comparison to the simple Plate.

As for II: AC caps at 24 (or 26, don't remember exactly - sometimes it seems to cap at 24, sometimes at 26). Now, if a capped Armor class is improved by Improved Invisibility, it will worsen the chances of the enemies to hit by 4 more points. If Improved Invisibility actually added 4 bonus to Armor Class(instead of substracting 4 from enemy to hit rolls), then at capped AC of 24(or 26), Improved invisibility would grant no further bonus to AC (i.e. would be useless as AC improvement).

I forgot about the cap in BG2. Thanks for pointing out.