Close-Quarters Fighting feat with a reach weapon
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BornForBattle
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Close-Quarters Fighting feat with a reach weapon
How would this work? You would get an attack of opportunity when the opponent moves through your threatened square, do you then get another attack of opportunity when they try to start the grapple? I would think not, as you can't normally strike the square they are now occupying, but the feat simply states that you "gain an attack of opportunity whenever an enemy attempts to grapple you".
But making an AoO requires for the enemy to be threatened by you, which he isn't. It would be possible to make an AoO with an unarmed strike (and provoke yet another if you don't have Improved Unarmed Strike) or a Spiked Gauntlet, or Armour Spikes.
All in all, we have houseruled a feat that allows reach weapons to threaten inside their "deadzone" (like a Spiked Chain), so that these issues would be moot.
All in all, we have houseruled a feat that allows reach weapons to threaten inside their "deadzone" (like a Spiked Chain), so that these issues would be moot.
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Siberys
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You would have to be grappled by someone with 10 feet of reach without weaponry (usually large and larger creatures), AND you would have to be 5 feet away from that creature with your reach weapon to threaten them.
So essentially, if an ogre attempts to grapple you, there would have to be a 5 foot space in between you and the ogre for you to gain that AOO. Otherwise, you just don't get the AOO.
Kind of a big condition to have that feat work really. Oh, and you wouldn't get an AOO with an Unarmed strike if you don't have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. You are considered unarmed without it, and unarmed means you aren't threatening for the purpose of an AOO.
Now...if you had a spiked chain on the other hand, then this feat would become insane.
So essentially, if an ogre attempts to grapple you, there would have to be a 5 foot space in between you and the ogre for you to gain that AOO. Otherwise, you just don't get the AOO.
Kind of a big condition to have that feat work really. Oh, and you wouldn't get an AOO with an Unarmed strike if you don't have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. You are considered unarmed without it, and unarmed means you aren't threatening for the purpose of an AOO.
Now...if you had a spiked chain on the other hand, then this feat would become insane.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
I haven't found a rule that doesn't allow you AoO when unarmed. You still threaten your reach. Improved Unarmed Strike lets you deal lethal and non-lethal damage and doesn't grant your opponent an AoO when you attack him.
Quote from d20srd:
If there's a rule that precludes you from an AoO when unarmed, I can't find it.
It wouldn't be really insane with a Spiked Chain: most dangerous grapple-things can attack you from outside their reach, and even if they don't, you still have to have an AoO to use, and your attack must still hit.
If I was worried about getting grappled (and I am, as a player), I buy a Ring of Freedom of Movement instead of spending a feat. 40000 gp is a much smaller investment when compared to your feats. (Only 5% of your total wealth by level at lvl 20, instead of 14% of your feats.) Not to mention, the Ring is failproof. (Except in the rarest circumstances, but then you have bigger issues.)
Quote from d20srd:
An unarmed strike is listed as a melee weapon, so you fulfill all the requirements for theatening.Threatened Squares
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action.
If there's a rule that precludes you from an AoO when unarmed, I can't find it.
It wouldn't be really insane with a Spiked Chain: most dangerous grapple-things can attack you from outside their reach, and even if they don't, you still have to have an AoO to use, and your attack must still hit.
If I was worried about getting grappled (and I am, as a player), I buy a Ring of Freedom of Movement instead of spending a feat. 40000 gp is a much smaller investment when compared to your feats. (Only 5% of your total wealth by level at lvl 20, instead of 14% of your feats.) Not to mention, the Ring is failproof. (Except in the rarest circumstances, but then you have bigger issues.)
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Siberys
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Attacks Of Opportunity :: d20srd.orgIf you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.
Feats :: d20srd.orgImproved Unarmed Strike [General]
Benefit
You are considered to be armed even when unarmed
Pretty cut and dry to be honest.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
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Siberys
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No worries. I come across rules like that all the time. Once I find them they're easy enough to understand, but the act of finding them is whats hard.GawainBS wrote:Completely missed it. Thanks. Nobody's perfect.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
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BornForBattle
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I've decided to go with Armour Spikes and also get the Starver Enchantment on my armour. That way I get an AoO with my reach weapon when they approach me, an AoO with my Armour Spikes when they try to grapple, and if they succeed in grappling me, then Starver does 2d6 damage every round. I have the deft opportunist feat, which gives me a great chance of landing these hits from AoO's, meaning that something tries to grab me, it's gonna be in a world of hurt.
You're better off buying a Ring of Freedom of Movement instead of the Starver Enhancement. It might be a bit more expensive, but it protects against a lot more than grapples, and it keeps your armour cheaper for more useful enchantments. (Like Heavy Fortification.)BornForBattle wrote:I've decided to go with Armour Spikes and also get the Starver Enchantment on my armour. That way I get an AoO with my reach weapon when they approach me, an AoO with my Armour Spikes when they try to grapple, and if they succeed in grappling me, then Starver does 2d6 damage every round. I have the deft opportunist feat, which gives me a great chance of landing these hits from AoO's, meaning that something tries to grab me, it's gonna be in a world of hurt.
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Siberys
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I don't think he was going for protection against grapples but rather looking for a way to turn a grapple back on an enemy, in which case the Starver Enchantment makes sense.
Though, when you can afford it, a Freedom of Movement ring is extremely useful in its own right.
Though, when you can afford it, a Freedom of Movement ring is extremely useful in its own right.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
The Starver enhancement isn't worth it, since the enemy gets his way when he grapples you, especially if you are a reachweapon wielder: you're incapacitated and out of the picture. 7 damage a round isn't going to change his mind if he can take out your 10 ft (or 20ft if you're Enlarged) radius threatened area.
A Ring of Freedom of Movement turns the grapple on him: he wastes his action (and his turn) attempting something that will never succeed.
A Ring of Freedom of Movement turns the grapple on him: he wastes his action (and his turn) attempting something that will never succeed.
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Siberys
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Wouldn't matter about the reach weapon. If it's not a light weapon, natural weapon or unarmed strike, he couldn't attack the person grappling anyways. And even with those weapons, it's at a -4 penalty.
This would allow him to not only do automatic damage when being grappled, but also attempt to escape the grapple. With a weapon in hand and nothing more, this would not be possible.
I'm not knocking the Ring of Freedom of Movement, but it's a lot to invest in just for the sake of not being grappled, and this is including the ring slot as well as the cost (far better uses for that slot if Freedom of Movement is unnecessary). If there aren't a lot of other situations where the freedom of movement spell comes in handy (Such as spells like Web, Entangle or Paralysis, or Underwater Combat), then it's not worth the investment. It's kind of like buying a flaming weapon if 9 out of 10 enemies you fight have Fire Resistance 6 or more
This would allow him to not only do automatic damage when being grappled, but also attempt to escape the grapple. With a weapon in hand and nothing more, this would not be possible.
I'm not knocking the Ring of Freedom of Movement, but it's a lot to invest in just for the sake of not being grappled, and this is including the ring slot as well as the cost (far better uses for that slot if Freedom of Movement is unnecessary). If there aren't a lot of other situations where the freedom of movement spell comes in handy (Such as spells like Web, Entangle or Paralysis, or Underwater Combat), then it's not worth the investment. It's kind of like buying a flaming weapon if 9 out of 10 enemies you fight have Fire Resistance 6 or more
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
The reach weapon matters, because it's used to create a dangerous area for the enemy. Taking a reach weapon wielder out (via a grapple) clears that threatened area. You're denying the enemy battlefield control by doing that. Hence it's even more important that reachweapon wielder avoid getting grappled.
Preventing getting grappled alone is worth the Ring, for everyone. Look at all those things in the Monster Manual that are Large or larger and have high STR scores. Then I'm not even touching all the things that can cast movement-impairing effects. If the DM plays half the encounters right, a Ring of Freedom of Movement is more than worth its 40000gp.
If you only ever face off against humanoids and very, very few of those are casters, then it's not worth it. But that is highly unusual in D&D.
Preventing getting grappled alone is worth the Ring, for everyone. Look at all those things in the Monster Manual that are Large or larger and have high STR scores. Then I'm not even touching all the things that can cast movement-impairing effects. If the DM plays half the encounters right, a Ring of Freedom of Movement is more than worth its 40000gp.
If you only ever face off against humanoids and very, very few of those are casters, then it's not worth it. But that is highly unusual in D&D.
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Siberys
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You're considered not threatening with any weapon, including light ones (whether or not you can attack with it). When grappled, you are never threatening another square, reach weapon or not.The reach weapon matters, because it's used to create a dangerous area for the enemy. Taking a reach weapon wielder out (via a grapple) clears that threatened area.
Understandable, but here's why the Freedom of Movement ring isn't worth it just for the purpose of grapple. Grappling is not always the choice of fighting in D&D, and in fact it's the least likely option to use from most DM's standards. I don't even use Grapple unless the enemy has improved grab or improved grapple on its own, and I don't give custom made NPC's Improved Grapple.You're denying the enemy battlefield control by doing that. Hence it's even more important that reachweapon wielder avoid getting grappled.
This DM may be different so I will say that if at least one enemy tries to grapple the reach weapon wielder every encounter, then yes it's worth it, barely. But If not, if it's only an occasional thing, it's not worth it IMO.
The Ring slot alone is precious enough to not want to waste it on Freedom of Movement unless it's going to be used CONSTANTLY.
This is just my opinion, but like I said unless you're getting grappled every battle, I don't recommend buying the ring.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
THAT is exactly the point: you are NO LONGER threatening if you get grappled. By grappling you, the enemy has just cleared a 10/20ft radius dangerous zone, since you no longer threaten. You have lost battlefield control and probably initiative. (Initiative as a tactical term, not a D&D term.)Siberys wrote:You're considered not threatening with any weapon, including light ones (whether or not you can attack with it). When grappled, you are never threatening another square, reach weapon or not.
Look at most monsters: their stat blocks scream "I'll graple you!" Assuming you're encountering encounters drawn from all over the Monster Manuals, you'll get grappled in about a quarter to half the fights. COmbine that with the fights that feature Webs, Paralyses, Hold Person and other such things, and the Ring slot is definitly useful with Freedom of Movement.
Note that you can put another ring on it at 1.5 times the cost, or put Freedom of Movement on your armour for a +5 or +3 (don't recall) bonus.
For me and every person I know that plays D&D, Freedom of Movement is a must.