Advice on technologist/diplomat build

Peterkin · Post by **Peterkin** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:08 am

Hi, I'd like to create a primarily charismatic talker that is also proficient with tech and firearms. Therefore I'd be grateful for any advice with regards to character creation and progression. Aside from general advice, I'm especially interested in the following:
1. I understand that you need strength to wield the bigger guns. What would be the recommended number to start and end with?
2. What level should my dex be? I don't want to be terrible in combat but feel that I need to conserve my points for my social stats.
3. What level in Charisma is recommended to unlock most dialogue options?
4. With regards to backgrounds, I thought about the charlatans protege or the miracle operation. Are there more recommended backgrounds?
5. Which tech trees are viable to spend points in?

Thanks in advance.

killerschlumpf · Post by **killerschlumpf** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:00 am

Peterkin wrote:Hi, I'd like to create a primarily charismatic talker that is also proficient with tech and firearms. Therefore I'd be grateful for any advice with regards to character creation and progression. Aside from general advice, I'm especially interested in the following:
1. I understand that you need strength to wield the bigger guns. What would be the recommended number to start and end with?
2. What level should my dex be? I don't want to be terrible in combat but feel that I need to conserve my points for my social stats.
3. What level in Charisma is recommended to unlock most dialogue options?
4. With regards to backgrounds, I thought about the charlatans protege or the miracle operation. Are there more recommended backgrounds?
5. Which tech trees are viable to spend points in?

Thanks in advance.

1. Use the Hand Cannon. This is imo one of the best one hand guns so you can also use a shield and therefore strenght doesn't really matter. 8-10 should be enough.
2. Put as many points in here as you can. I always try to get 20+ but I only play turned based and don't know how many you should invest if you play real time.
3. I play with solo chars and most of the time with low charisma and low beauty and even with those "ugly" guys I get most of the quests if you want that. But wiht high Ch you will get more followers.
4. look at 3
5. None. The hand Cannon can be "found" or get without wasting points in Gun Smithy. The only thing you should spend points for ar Charged Rings but there are followers who can build them (if you are going to have some

).
The only really usefull teach tree are explosives if you play as a throwing char.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:16 am

1. you only need 10 strength to use the best guns in the game, Droch's Warbringer itself only requires at most ten strength. However, you will want to use melee weapons as well, believe me, so 12 strength eventually would be desirable, but you can use boosters (see answer to 5).

2. You can never have too much dex, again boosters can help.

3. Depending on how many followers you want, 10 at start would nice, although the more the merrier.

4.Bog standard background isn't that bad, some of the boosts that other backgrounds give aren't worth the downside IMO. Don't like George Bush's Protege personally, don't like the physical hits, same for miracle operation, 12 Charisma is decent, again there are boosts and items that will help here.

5. Me, I like Chemistry (paralyzers etc.), Threrapeutics (this is were the boosters come from, max it out; for the best [permanent] boosters in the game this and chemistry needs to be maxed out), Electronics (The Tesla Gun is a nice weapon until you can get good guns, but requires max development, so maybe not, but up to Charged ring for sure, and for easy money I'd go for Shocking staff), Firearms (max out for Droch's Warbringer). Note for tech you need top notch intelligence, but the booster potions you can buy off Gypsies will get you through.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:29 am

Don't neglect strength. As a gunslinger, I found that you can never have enough bullets, and those weigh a lot. There's a mod out there that puts their wieght at 0, though.

Peterkin · Post by **Peterkin** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:36 am

Thanks for all the responses so far.
@GawainBS: Do you know if this mod works with Drogg's unofficial patch for Arcanum?

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:58 am

No idea. I have strong suspicions it does work.

killerschlumpf · Post by **killerschlumpf** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:42 pm

Are bullets hevyer than arrows? One of my builds uses a bow (more powerfull than a gun but ...) and I carry about 500-1500 arrows; 10 Strength.

Also you don't really need a meele weapon as far as I can tell (using a bow).

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:47 pm

Yes, you can carry them, but they will weigh you down, resulting in fewer action points.

Morgan Terror · Post by **Morgan Terror** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:34 am

1: what i would recommend is using 9 strength. at some point you will find a schematic for machined plate (if you explore enough), which gives you a bonus of 3 strength, amongst other things. this does show up in your character screen, but not in the item discription. 12 strength is very good and will allow you to use fewer points in dex. also, 12 is the required amount for most weapons.

2: i am taking into account that you use charged rings. what i would recommend is put enough points in electrics to get the flow spectrometer. this allows you to ignore putting points in spot traps, and you can make your own charged rings. do remember though that the flow spectrometer uses batteries, so keep a supply handy.

3: i normally put enough points in charisma to get 3 points in persuasion. this opens up most of the dialogue and will allow you to recieve expert persuasion training, which gives you an extra follower. i'm pretty sure it's supposed to be two extra followers though. however, if you can get 4 points in persuasion, you get two or three rather important extra options. maybe fate points would work for that.

4: what i did was select 'sickly'. the intelligence bonus really helps in the tech department, and you only feel the downsides of the background at the very beginning. constitution isn't important if you have lots of companions and a gun.

5: i'd say full-out in smithing, guns and engineering, with 3 points in electrics. you don't need herbology in my opinion, since there is a character that can make that stuff for you. do get that character to go with you early on though, otherwise you might run into some problems pretty fast.

my favorite gun is the elephant gun. i rely very much on my meatshield companions to keep me away from harm most of the time, and the sheer stopping power of my gun usually keeps me out of trouble. you can't carry a shield with this thing, but it has a huge minimum damage. the hand cannon has a high max damage, but really low minimum, making it unreliable. just make sure you can fire at least two shots per round with the elephant gun. i could fire three, and it was more than enough. also, it has the biggest muzzle flame in all the weaponry.

the only real downside i see to this weapon is that it uses 2 ammo per shot. however, it does so much damage that it makes up for this easily. comparing the two guns mentioned above, you get this:

2 shots each, in one round, comparing the damage you can do in total:

hand cannon: 4 to 60 (i think) for 2 bullets
elephant gun: 60 to 100 for 4 bullets

the elephant gun is way better in terms of minimum damage. in the worst-case scenario, the hand cannon would do 4 damage with 2 bullets, and the elephant gun would do 30 damage with 2 bullets.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:09 am

I'm going by the item descriptions here in Gamebanshee.
The Hand Cannon seems to be the better of the two: it's twice as fast, has higher range and is only one handed. Because it's twice as fast, it does more damage in the end. (Elephant Gun has average damage of 35, speed of 4, while Hand Cannon has average damage of 20, but speed 8.)

Morgan Terror · Post by **Morgan Terror** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:08 pm

that's interesting. i would have sworn they are the same speed. still, i love the elephant gun's big kablooey. i should check the stats for the rifled hand cannon.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:03 pm

Truth to tell I don't like playing gun-slingers, they just don't pack the punch that they should do at any point in the game. Even at the end when you have Droch's Warbringer you're actually better off with one of the Arcane swords, sad , but that's how the game works. I did play a gunny through the game once, fun to do once but that's it.

I don't usually play solo, but in reality I just as well be. The NPC's are just mobile back-packs really, because if you let them do any fighting they are stealing your experience points. Pressing R then F5 is an automatic responce, the only other use is as healers and (if tech) for making items in a tech I'm not bothering with, usually Smithy and Mechanical (Angus of course, great character).

Therapeutics are too valuable not to have, all those nice drugs, to heck with Nancy Reagan, how can you say no?

The armour someone metnioned (if you have the right patch) may improve your strength, but not as much as an Elixir of Physical Prowess let alone Energizers and Revitalizers, and they do stack you know. Shoot up some drugs and it's unstoppable tank time!*

Bad experiences with the Barbarians in Kree the first couple of times I played the game lead me to a dependence on Chemistry, you can't dodge when you're paralyzed chucky!

* Please note I do not advise, recommend or in any way condone drug use in the real world.

Morgan Terror · Post by **Morgan Terror** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:03 pm

that sounds just about the opposite of my tactic. i see myself as the ranged support for my companions, together with sebastian and occasionally raven. i suppose my focus would be a lot different if i would put less points in charisma. then i'd probably use something similar to your tactic.

what i have noticed, however, is that even though you put so much effort into getting them, all the guns (except for droch's warbringer) from found schematics are utter garbage. i really don't see why they didn't think a bit more towards an incline in firepower for the rarer guns. most of them are worse than the ones you used to craft it with. it doesn't make any sense.

Peterkin · Post by **Peterkin** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:49 pm

Thanks for the help.
With regards to this special armor that gives you additional strength, is it included in Drogs patch, because that is all I use currently?

Edit: Found it in the patch notes, it's apparently in.

Are there any pure therapeutics schematics that raise your stats permanently or only the mixed chemistry-therapeutics piece mentioned before?
I don't want to sound too much like a powergamer, so far I'm really enjoying the game and the diversity that a tech-persuasion hybrid brings gameplay wise to the table.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:03 pm

There's a ring that I believe raises strength and constitution that can be 'ahem' acquired from the gnome who lives next door to the near the Gentleman's Club in Tarant.

The Strength of Earth Spell adds four points of strength, and stacks, and there's the Elixir of Physical Prowess which Jayna (lass who lives in Dernholm) can make as soon as you meet her.

what i have noticed, however, is that even though you put so much effort into getting them, all the guns (except for droch's warbringer) from found schematics are utter garbage.

Oh so very true, and probably what put me off gunny's & gun smithing more than anything else.

killerschlumpf · Post by **killerschlumpf** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:31 am

As far as i know most of the "ultracooloverpowered" items you can create can also be found ingame and some better ones (especially one armor for small tech chars *g*). And why going to have a gun when you can have a bow or why using an Arcane Sword when a crappy dagger will do the same (or better)?

Morgan Terror · Post by **Morgan Terror** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:48 am

jayna has herbology, not therapeutics. unless i've been completely missing those schematics in her posession all along, which would be odd, but not very surprising.

i always found bows to be pretty lacking. they compare well to the guns you can buy in stores, but are even worse than the craftable guns. daggers are good for backstabbing, if you're untrained in the skill. meaning less than expert training. otherwise you could just use a claymore to backstab someone, which sounds pretty nasty in itself.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:52 am

Morgan Terror wrote:jayna has herbology, not therapeutics.

She should have second tier in both, at least she does in my game.

Morgan Terror · Post by **Morgan Terror** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:40 am

that's... interesting. i don't hear of many people using sebastian though. he's fun to use as a grenadier. he doesn't make use of them very well, but that might be because i equipped him with a gun. i'm pretty sure he uses his throwing weapons very effectively when he has a melee weapon, since i have seen him do it.

killerschlumpf · Post by **killerschlumpf** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:58 am

Morgan Terror wrote: i always found bows to be pretty lacking. they compare well to the guns you can buy in stores, but are even worse than the craftable guns. daggers are good for backstabbing, if you're untrained in the skill. meaning less than expert training. otherwise you could just use a claymore to backstab someone, which sounds pretty nasty in itself.

I get enemies faster down by using a (Pyrotechnic) bow than with a gun.

And I would ever prefer a dagger and not a Sword even if I'm backstabbing expert/master. Both weapons deal one/two hit kills (backstab) but a dagger is faster -> more dead enemies per round especially if you're a magic char (dagger of speed + hasten).