party creation hints for 2nd and 3rd official adventures?

Orion79 · Post by **Orion79** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:45 pm

Hi, I feel I've almost completed the first adventure and I'm already thinking about creating a super power-play party for the other 2 games

It is the kind of things that I like top enjoy only on videogames, not pen & paper game.
I've seen that they have added the "sorcerer" version of cleric and druid too. the cleric one looks very strong but I've seen that it misses domain effects and looks less able to create custom weapons and armors, that look very important to me. have you tried them? Do you think I should use the blessed one in the place of a cleric?
Sadly, I've seen that it is not possible to use higher level slots to cast spells from lower levels (eg, let's say that I run out of magic missiles: in P&P I can use second level spells to cast them) so sorcerer-like classes are somehow limited imho.

Also, the prestige classes look so many but at the end they are less than what it looks like.
Assuming that I'm next to create a party of 5 and that I would like to import my super-strong bard1-weapon master 7- fighter & dragon disciple, do you have any interesting classes & race combo to suggest?

Ah, i was next to add my loved combo monk 4 - druid X (after all martial arts come from studying animals!!) but, after that seeing that each time that I shapeshift my druid, it looses all bonus spells from items that give extra slots or increase wisdom, it is too big trouble and I was thinking to shift on a cleric that worships Chauntea for Barkskin or some deity that grants that empowered spells feat for healing spells.

Thanks!

baron667 · Post by **baron667** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:59 am

Orion79 wrote:I've seen that they have added the "sorcerer" version of cleric and druid too. the cleric one looks very strong but I've seen that it misses domain effects and looks less able to create custom weapons and armors, that look very important to me. have you tried them?

it is a fairly weak character that will be effective in protecting (himself + party) but really poor in offensive magic.
aslo, due to the fact that you should keep both cha+wis quite high, he'll be useless for anything else.
try it only if you plan on playing a very passive role in battle, and rely on the companions for all the rest.

Orion79 wrote:Ah, i was next to add my loved combo monk 4 - druid X (after all martial arts come from studying animals!!) but, after that seeing that each time that I shapeshift my druid, it looses all bonus spells from items that give extra slots or increase wisdom, it is too big trouble and I was thinking to shift on a cleric that worships Chauntea for Barkskin or some deity that grants that empowered spells feat for healing spells.

good point, but a couple of buffs would benefit you much more than 4 monk levels, so it turns out to be pointless, even counter-productive if you plan to power-game in some way.

Orion79 · Post by **Orion79** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:09 am

baron667 wrote:it is a fairly weak character that will be effective in protecting (himself + party) but really poor in offensive magic.
aslo, due to the fact that you should keep both cha+wis quite high, he'll be useless for anything else.
try it only if you plan on playing a very passive role in battle, and rely on the companions for all the rest.

good point, but a couple of buffs would benefit you much more than 4 monk levels, so it turns out to be pointless, even counter-productive if you plan to power-game in some way.

Well, consider that I wouldn't use that sort of "cleric" in single mode, but while creating my own party of 5 elements.

About the druid/monk matter, trust me: I've already tried that combo in Temple of Elemental Evil and it works great if you want a more offensive druid that fights under animal shape: the monk flurry of blows and wisdom modifier to Armor Class still shall apply and, in a long therm game, you would still have the advantages of a high level druid that can buff himself plus some of the monk fighting advantages. But, as I've told, since equiped items loose their bonuses during alternative shape, it is too uncomfortable for me to re-select spells every time that I make the druid to shapeshift, so I'm not going to use it anyway.

baron667 · Post by **baron667** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:17 am

sorry - might have misunderstood your request, if you're talking SOZ, a favored souls is ubercool imo.

Orion79 · Post by **Orion79** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:36 am

baron667 wrote:sorry - might have misunderstood your request, if you're talking SOZ, a favored souls is ubercool imo.

Yep! But, as I've told, that one does not look so good for item crafting: lack of spells may be a problem! Instead, I'm still in short of ideas about my power-party of 5...

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:00 pm

Here is my "guide" for SOZ:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/never ... 05009.html

Note that it has a full party build section at the end.

For MOTB - No Sneak Attackers (without the epic feat 1/2 damage "fix"). Generally no Spell-Casters unless they have wands or other means of support attack (like melee). FB's and Warlocks are well suited to MOTB.

Favored Souls are always good characters. Melee for mono-a-mono fights with rare buffs, decent in modest battles without buffs, excellent on occasion for killing mobs with high level area attack spells.

A build well-suited to MOTB (except for dialogue skills, which aren't a big deal in MOTB):

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/never ... 09714.html

Orion79 · Post by **Orion79** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:20 am

well, I have to say that things look much more complicated than what I thought at the beginning.

First of all, I've seen that there are several hireable NPCs in the game (11 or 12, right?). Do they have any side-plot as in the vanilla game? if so, it would be very irritating because I don't have (nor the will) to play the game over and over to appreciate all interactions.
Also, this would force me to choose among building my perfect party or using in-game characters, eventually using console cheats to carry them all together.
BUT if they have only one single-quest, I could create a party of 5 then take the Leadership feat to carry the 6th man only for the time of completing his quest and then I would drop it/her.

Also, what would it happen if I would import my epic level dragon disciple + wapon master into SoZ? would it cause an unbalanced game?

More, SoZ would bring my party to level 20, more or less, so no epic levels (weird!) so I have to carefully plan my party levels aproximatively to that limit, right?

Last but not least, as far I've understood, the group leader has to be a very smart character with the best diplomatic and sneak/survival skills at top to fully enjoy those "party interaction" bonuses that I've seen here and there.

May I also ask if a specialist wizard and a cleric would be able to craft all kind of magic items? if so, what are the domains and arcane schools that I need? (and which one I don't?)

Can you summarize any other elements about this matter? Thanks again!

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:52 pm

Orion79 wrote:well, I have to say that things look much more complicated than what I thought at the beginning.

First of all, I've seen that there are several hireable NPCs in the game (11 or 12, right?). Do they have any side-plot as in the vanilla game? if so, it would be very irritating because I don't have (nor the will) to play the game over and over to appreciate all interactions. Also, this would force me to choose among building my perfect party or using in-game characters, eventually using console cheats to carry them all together. BUT if they have only one single-quest, I could create a party of 5 then take the Leadership feat to carry the 6th man only for the time of completing his quest and then I would drop it/her.

Also, what would it happen if I would import my epic level dragon disciple + wapon master into SoZ? would it cause an unbalanced game?

More, SoZ would bring my party to level 20, more or less, so no epic levels (weird!) so I have to carefully plan my party levels aproximatively to that limit, right?

Last but not least, as far I've understood, the group leader has to be a very smart character with the best diplomatic and sneak/survival skills at top to fully enjoy those "party interaction" bonuses that I've seen here and there.

May I also ask if a specialist wizard and a cleric would be able to craft all kind of magic items? if so, what are the domains and arcane schools that I need? (and which one I don't?)

Can you summarize any other elements about this matter? Thanks again!

For the most part they don't have quests, and virtually no interaction. Overall they are kind of worthless. Forget the leadership feat, and for the most part forget using them. (..it's completely crap in comparison to the OC or MOTB.)

It's designed for level 4 characters ONLY (at start). So yes, it would be utterly unbalanced to import an uber character. The ONLY time you should consider importing a higher level character is for a "solo" run - and even then only with as much as 8 levels to start.

Level 20 ONLY if have 4 or fewer party members AND you do some grinding. Figure 17-18 is more "par for the course".

The Leader *should* have either a high Hide and/or Move Silently skill and additionally augmented by equipment. If you plan to use a particular Overland Map encounter dialogue skill (Intimidate or Bluff), then it would be preferable if that character also had a high skill level for that dialogue. (My preference is Intimidate.) The Leader should also have a modest Survival skill (5-8 works well enough). Your other characters can concentrate on the other skills.

I'm a bit "hazy" on the wondrous item crafting. If I remember correctly, most of the better equipment (that required spells) are attribute related and so required the 2nd level modifier spells - i.e. Bulls Strength, Cat's Grace, etc..So *any* Cleric will work out. A Wizard should not have transmutation "off of their list" (because of specialization) if you want to craft these items and if you have no other party members with these spells.

Orion79 · Post by **Orion79** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:57 pm

Well, then I bet I'll have to build up a party where my first character is a rogue-ranger or something similar... we'll see.

Anyway, i love the idea of big groups because I like the tactical side of D&D and experimenting classes interaction so, even if I know it would be better to play with a party of 4, I think I would have more fun with a party of 6.

Now, if you can spoil which one of the NPCs has sub-quests or plots, I think I'm ready to play the game and that I don't need anymore advices.

PS: really compliments for the exhaustive guide and the answers, you've been very helpful. Maybe you should complete that one adding the questions that I've made to you as part of a preventive FAQ and then use what is already written as a in-deep explanation.

Thanks again, really!

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:14 pm

Orion79 wrote:
Now, if you can spoil which one of the NPCs has sub-quests or plots,

Thanks again, really!

None really have sub-quests.

The one that *almost* does isn't until about 60%+ into the game. (..doomguide and his girlfriend.) It's up to you. They all suck pretty equally.

If you don't have a monk, then I'd consider that character (..requires the spell Darkness to hire him).

The Druid with his dino pet is also decent.

The Warlock isn't bad either.

The monk, the pet buffed, and the Warlock can all damage the uber baddie at the end battle without serious complications.

SPOILER (though essential, highlight to read):

Spoiler

Stock-up on Cold Iron weapons for your melee'ers - other wise they will be virtually useless against the uber baddie. Sonic damage is the best elemental damage for enchantment. Evil Bane is excellent.

For a 6 member party consider about level 15-16 with modest grinding. Grind a fair bit more and possibly as high as level 19. If you go with the Druid then prepare to grind until that character has level 9 Natures Avatar for your dino pet before the end-battle. Do NOT change from the Druid class for that character (otherwise it kills the dino pet's effectiveness).

Orion79 · Post by **Orion79** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:11 am

Thank you, really: now I'm ready to enjoy the game!

Orion79 · Post by **Orion79** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:11 am

Ah, one more thing: now I've understood why you told me to avoid the leadership feat! It only allows to carry one more NPC already available in the game but does NOT allow to carry on more custom-made characters! Too bad, but I think that I'll go ahead with a party of 5 taking the druid, the only character that I could use.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:24 pm

Orion79 wrote:Ah, one more thing: now I've understood why you told me to avoid the leadership feat! It only allows to carry one more NPC already available in the game but does NOT allow to carry on more custom-made characters! Too bad, but I think that I'll go ahead with a party of 5 taking the druid, the only character that I could use.

Yup, first page of my "guide".

Pertinent excerpt:

"You can get one more in your group with your Leader having the Leadership feat (..available at level 6 and up). That means you can have up to 4 members you made yourself and 2 you have join you. IF you choose to *use* fewer than 4 that you make for yourself, THEN those additional positions are available for in-game members. You can not have more than 4 members you make yourself."