What do you feel about Euthanasia

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:18 pm

There is a case currently in the high courts in the UK in respect of a lady with motor neurone disease who is fighting for the right to die 'with dignity' without her husband being prosecuted for manslaughter, or at worst murder. She has won the first round, which will be ground breaking in the UK.

She is sound of mind but cannot do anything for herself and is deteriorating. She believes there is no quality of life for herself or her husband.

Where do we draw the line? Is it reasonable for a very sick person who is sound of mind to choose to die? Can we approve of that without giving licence to doctors to advise such for persons considered to be in a vegetative state, or being kept for too long on life support?

I know this is a controversial question but I was just interested.

Personally, I cannot comprehend the kind of frustrations and pain she is going through because I do not fully understand the nature of the disease. But if you were diagnosed with a similar degenerative disease, whether physical or mental, would you like to have the option?

In my own opinion, I personally would not want to be that kind of burden on my family. I would not like my friends and family remembering how I used to be whilst I was still alive...

Dignity.

rapier · Post by **rapier** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:20 pm

Hmn, if someone is of clear mind and wants to die, why not? It's his life, so he can decide what to do with it...

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:24 pm

Personal euthanasia - even with 'help' - should be exempted from all legal prosecutions (and also not considered 'suicide' so your life insurance policies will still pay your survivors.....).

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:27 pm

@Anatres - I think life insurance policies being invalidated is the next biggest thing after the 'suicide'.

Most modern policies offer a critical illness cover (at a cost!!) but they usually only equate to half the policy value...

[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Yshania ]

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:38 pm

Ooh tough issue shania!

The problem with Euthanasia in our society is that it conflicts with so many long held laws and tenets that unraveling the legal issues becomes incredibly complex.

For instance the insurance being invalidated seems incredibly cruel - but I can see from the insurer's pOV that if people are controlling when an infirm and heavily insured family member dies, the opportunity for fraud is there...

Anyway as far as the moral situation goes, I don't like suicide, but I think it is a right people should have. As far as pulling the plug on someone else, unfortunately it is a very gray area. Perhaps there is too much potential for abuse there...

Unfortunately life is a messy proposition, sometimes lost too easily, sometimes unwanted yet hard to rid oneself of. I think if you can pull the trigger yourself, you should be allowed to, although it will hurt people around you in ways you cannot know, but if you are in a degenerative state, then you should do it while you still can and not expect someone else to do it for you. It's cruel I know but that's how I feel.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:46 pm

Posted by The Jaker -

As far as pulling the plug on someone else, unfortunately it is a very gray area. Perhaps there is too much potential for abuse there...

This is the major sticking point in my opinion. Where do we draw the line? Could I bring myself to help my husband even, despite knowing for sure that is what he would want? I really do not know...

I believe it is Holland who have approved that with two doctors' signatures euthanasia is now legal...but who initiates the request?

The patient or the carer?

nael · Post by **nael** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:16 pm

in the states, if there is no legal gaurdian or obvious person who can be consulted on what the ersons wishes were, the hospital can assume control and do as they wish and terminate the life.
there was a lady in florida who stayed on life support for over 35 years!!!! good ol' medicare and medicaid paid for everything. i personally think a person should fight for as long as they can and not give up due to pain. pain is just as much a part of life as anything else. but, i figure that i don't like most people, so if they wanna die, good riddance

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:21 pm

Of course, he is from Texas...

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:25 pm

@Nael - in the Uk we have national health care (!

!) which will not charge a family for keeping someone alive. If there is no family, I do not know .... does this sick person become a statistic? If they do it is not legal...

In the US where you have insurance covering health care, I can understand (though not agree!

) with 'officials' making the decision to cut costs...but - is it legal?

As for living in pain - would you want it? Would you wish it on your loved ones?

nael · Post by **nael** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:45 pm

that's what i'm tellign you, that's the law. most hospitals won't outright pull the plug due to liability issues if a loved one pops up out of nowhere. usually the hospital will go to court to gain custody, and then kill 'em.

there was one case in california...one of the whackiest states when it comes to court rulings...where a lady wanted to starve herself to death, but wanted to do it in a hospital. the physicians and hospital staff wanted her declared insane and deny her the means to do this by. the court ruled in her favour and said the hospital had to allow her to do this. hehehehe, but, she got hers...her main reason for doing it in a hospital was to recieve pain medication. LOL...none of the staff would prescribe it to her.

and as for the UK, you have the fastest growing two tier system in the world. HCA, who faced MANY legal problems in the US for fraud and abuse, has been buyign up hospitals left and right in the UK to sell health care to those who are able to pay and not willing to stand in line for a procedure.

nael · Post by **nael** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:47 pm

oh, and the reason for cutting cost isn't the ones with private health insurance it is those with no insurance who come into emergency rooms and under law we have to treat them. it is also medicaid and medicare (our social programs to provide health care for the elderly and poor)reimbursements which are so low which cause hospitals strife. if someone comes in health insurance, you better believe we'll hook them up to every money making machien in the building...

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:56 pm

Posted by Nael -

if someone comes in health insurance, you better believe we'll hook them up to every money making machien in the building...

Now why does that not surprise me?

How long before insurance companies start supporting euthanasia?

I mean , 35 years on life support? When she took out the policy it was probably pennies compared to now - and the insurance companies then would barely have foreseen the technology we have available these days...

nael · Post by **nael** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:57 pm

that's life insurance, not health insurance. most health insuarnce plans do support it, because then they don't have to pay as much.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:04 pm

@Nael - maybe we are being too general with the word 'insurance'

I can understand health insurance companies supporting it (do they do it publically in the US?) but not life insurance companies. That is another issue...

Health insurance companies will not have any long term care costs if the patient passes away, a life insurance company will have a pay out to make...

nael · Post by **nael** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:11 pm

by publicly, do you mean, liek lobbying congress for change? maybe behidn closed doors, but most companies already face an image problem, and coming out for killing their covered lives really would not go over too well.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 1:55 am

I would rather die, than inflict a great amount of pain on loved ones/relatives.

If I get incurable sick of anytype that will eventual be fatal, I'll be the one that decides when I go and how - not the illness.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:57 am

Euthanisia is currently a debate in Sweden too.

Personally, I'm for it in principle, but I think there are some very difficult ethical issues too.

A case like Yshania describes is fairly easy to judge, since this woman is able to make a conscious choice. But many other incurable diseases that cause a lot of suffereing, include cerebral degeneration, and that's much more difficult.

As a healthy person, I think it's very difficult to really know what one would really like to do if struck by disease. When you get very ill, your values in life often change, and even if we feel today that we'd rather die than live for many years with Alzheimers, Creutzfeld Jacob's or Huntingtons, terminal cancer or AIDS, maybe that would change if we really got the disease? I know it has changed for many people. And what about the family? Should they be allowed to make a decision in cases where the patient him-/herself is not able to? Should doctors? I'm not sure how to handle situations where patients are not able to make conscious decisions about themselves.

I think there are many difficult questions to address, but I do believe euthanesia can be handled in a good and ethic way. Holland seems to be a good example.