What Do You Want in KotOR III?

[MErkx]

I like the idea of starting of as a child just like anakin in episode 1 and then making a jump to the age of maybe 18 or something like in episode 2 and finally like episode 3 when he's grown up.

as an alternative it could be fun if you where able to convert your character from kotor 2 into kotor 3 so that people who hate to start al over again with a new character can keep on going with the one they are already familiar with. But this can only be done on the pc.

Another character wich everyone's familiar with is of course... Revan! I really like the idea of Revan again as your main character.

[MErkx]

Oh and one more thing..... HOW THE HELL is it not possible to get slashed into
li'l bits during a duel when you are hit?!!! you either hit your opponent or miss but In a movie you would end up as darth maul when you are hit. I think the duels should be a bit more realistic I mean lightsabers are the most powerfull swords in star wars so it should be easy to slash someone in two with a single blow.

It should be much more difficult to actually hit an opponent's body, but in stead of missing everything(like when you try to open a box or a door but you keep missing the damn thing and look like a damn fool) you should hit the opponent's lightsaber much more often like in the movies(I think they would say in english more sparring action but I'm not shure cuz I'm dutch). It could make the duels much more exiting and nicer to look at.

Maybe they should keep it the same way only when fighting weak opponents and you should be able to slash them in two (or more) but that wouldn't be so much fun for the weak stomachs as it would be to me

[zepplin]

character creation should have more options(race,appearance etc) and I think that when you create your character you should create a character that is a young child learning the jedi way and eventually you should get your own master and as you get older and more powerfull you should get your own apprentice and then even become a jedi master or if you play ds become a sith lord or be apprentice to a sith lord. and with the territory of a jedi master you should be able to read some of those restricted archives in the jedi temple.

characters from past games should so up and you and you should be able to have more than 3 party members. maybe even train more than one padawan at once.

it would also be nice if you could return to the jedi order for more missions and stuff like that. as the story line progresses. there should also be more items and more lightsabre items to chose from.

what about the double bladed lightsabre??? we all saw darth maul fight qui-gon and only ignite one blade but in the games its always been two blades or none.

[Neché]

keeping your party together

well... everything I want in the KOTOR III is actually said, but i think a major thing that must be done something about, is when all in your party are running around in a rampage, and killing everyone in their sight. it is of course a good thing sometimes, but it is frustrating when you want to take a break and heal everybody up.

for example, at the Czerka Site after you've crashed on telos the first time, it is almost impossible to control your party after talking to the mercenaries. it took me at leat an half hour to get control of everybody, because efter killing the mecernaires, and before i could do anything, they ran over to the turrets and got themselves killed. Very frustrating.

-but i think everybody know what im talking about?

[Greg.]

You are a new jedi in the temple in coruscant - order formed by Brianna (Handmaiden), Bastilla, Disciple and Jolee. (Perhaps others instead). Republic under attack by new Rakatan empire/real sith (sith look like ringwraiths from LOTR)

How to explain Revan and Exile - they went to fight the Sith, and hyave weakened its advance. You and some less senior students have to go fight them on various worlds.

That works, and explains exile and Revan - you might meet them - disfigurement or helmets - but will not have major parts.

[Elias De vere]

I've got a great idea for the sequel. At the start you play as 3 Jedi masters whoi are running from destruction on coruscant whjen Anakin kills them all. One goes though a portal to warn the past, who you choose. then, you make your character, who is a Jedi knight already at level 10, and you customise the powers and feats and skills. It is based 5 years after Kotor 2. then, your hero discovers the jedi from the future. you discover a threat to the republic, but none of the masters on coruscant believe you. the only who does is Revan, who has been found by Bastilla and is hideously deformed. he and Bastilla decide to join you and this new jedi to find info about the threat. you go to Tattoine, Mannan, Kassyyk, Telos, Dxun and best of all Mustafar, and discover the sith doing weird rituals on each planet. along the way you discover that the exile helped bastilla get revan, but Revan killed the exile for betraying revan at the end of the war. on the last planet, depending on order you see a portal open, and Anakin Skywalker nee Darth Vader walks through and you and your party have to defeat him. he kills everyone bar you, the jedi.revan, bastilla, jolee and Carth. He kills Atton, Mira, Handmaiden, and Zaalbar(NOOOO!) then somethoing happens. Game ends on Earth!!!

[Darth Searus]

Not to be a punk, but I don't think Elias' idea would work. The only reason is that I think part of the allure of the KOTOR games is that you don't have to deal with all of the plot intricacies of the actual Star Wars movies. The new characters, the planets you don't see in the movies, that's what makes it interesting. I'm done with Vader (as much as I looooved Episode III). I want new villains, new characters.

[Chimaera182]

KotOR III (yes, spoilers)

Ugh. I just read through most of the 13 pages of this, and now most of what I wanted to add on to what I said before is gone, but I can at least comment on some posts (and probably rehash some long-buried stuff) even though some of it isn't relevant to the thread (but is at least a reply to what was said in the thread). [By the way, this reply has to come in two parts; I exceeded the character limit by quite a bit, so sorry.]

[Darth Lightside]
-choice of party members. Playing my dark side character I wanted nothing more than to turn Mira into a killing machine and punish her conscience. But I got the wookie. This could tie in to the above point as well. If you choose the exile to be dark side then there would be no returnies from kotor II. but if he was lightside you would. a big part is the option of turning away party members. I hate G0-T0 and never wanted him.
-plot synopsis. You are a jedi at an enclave (probably Dantooine for plot reasons) and there is a disturbance that you are sent to investigate.

I just an hour ago finished a game of me as a dark Jedi with Mira in my party. Unfortunately, because I hovered over neutral for so long, I wasn't able to enter the tomb on Korriban, and I never got to choose an actual Sith or Jedi class. But I was dark to the core where it counted, and I had Mira. But as for turning away some party members, I'm down with that. I didn't care for G0-T0 either, or Bao-Dur. As for the Jedi enclave at Dantooine, Kreia alluded to the fact that Dantooine would be abandoned by all but some wandering tribes, so maybe no more Jedi on Dantooine. Focus on other planets, instead.

[at528]
I would really like to see customizable appearances like lightsaber hilts and such. I would to be cool to be able to have a Dooku-like curved hilt and such. Also, I would like to have more control over how the saber opperates - using only one blade on a double bladed saber and such.
Finally- finish the game. I don't want LucasArts to push out an incomplete product so it is in time for the holidays.

Freedon Nadd or whatever his name was, when you get his lightsaber, the handle looks different, although it's a subtle thing. Customizing your lightsaber's hilt in Jedi Academy was okay, but in a time when the Jedi are actually organized, probably not. All the Jedi in the prequels seem to have the same type of hilt, so it's probably some kind of required deal. As for finishing the game... GOD YES.

[the thetorturedOne]
P.S something huge caught my eye last time I played through the game: Kreia says Mira's death occurs in many years time saving some people on an unknown planet. Is it just me, or could that be a total foreshadowing of KOTOR3? I would love to see that scene played out, especially because it says Mira dies with no regrets. It would make for such a noble scene.

Someone mentioned having one or more of your party members die. Having that happen to Mira in KotOR III would work, if she were in your party.

[Tovec]
Why are there always two? Yoda said it but in KOTOR that is constantly disproven. It is more valid in the case of Jedi - Obi and Vader, if you forget the council

The reason there's always two isn't just because of Darth Bane's proclamation. The simple fact is, if there was a Sith, someone had to teach him. So if Darth Maul was around, someone had to have taught him how to be a Sith Lord, which is a more logical explanation to me of why Yoda said there's always two. There has to be a teacher and there has to be a learner.

As for the debate on the light vs. dark side... The reason the light side triumphs over the dark is because this is FANTASY. People don’t generally want to see a movie or play a game where the bad guys win (although some people—like myself—would). People need the comfort that things work out in the end, hence why the Jedi always beat the Sith. Someone said something similar to this before. Also, when Yoda faced Dooku, he did acknowledge that he had grown more powerful: "Powerful you have become, Dooku. The dark side I sense in you." But then, people tend to see destructive things as more powerful. So when a Sith Lord wields the Force in a destructive manner, it's seen as powerful. A Jedi who reasons his or her way out of a situation, using the Force only in a small, supporting capacity, isn't seen as powerful only because it doesn't have such a large, outward impact. Which may be why GL said the dark side was stronger, because it appears to be to us. Whether it is or not is up to anyone's interpretation, not just the creator's; he put an idea out there, and we interpret that idea how we want, and unless it's a really crazy interpretation, we're all entitled to our interpretations.

As for Kreia... I don't want to say I love her, but I identified easily with her, so she wasn't as annoying to me as she was with most (someone made a comment about how everyone hated her). Yes, she was bad, yes she had some annoying aspects to her, but who in the world doesn't? Frankly, I like dragging her around on almost every mission I go on. My first game, almost everything I did I did because it was what I wanted, and, strangely, it seemed to fit with how she wanted me to behave. But I guess that's because I tend to be a sadistic, misanthropic cynic, and she is an older, female version of me . She was in your face bad and unapologetic about it, but it wasn't the scope of evil you saw in such characters like Malak or Nihilus. It was kind of a more subtle, natural evil, more so than Revan, who everyone ironically seems to love and want back (she applauds your ability to manipulate events around you, which Revan was adept at; he was knowledgable about betrayal, both in doling it out and receiving it, much as Kreia was). I feel like I had more to say on this topic, but I can't think of it at the moment.

...

[Chimaera182]

part 2

Okay... as for KotOR III, I am sick and tired of Tatooine, really. It's in like 5 of the 6 movies, and it was in KotOR I. At least in A New Hope and Return of the Jedi, it was more of a "See how an insignificant, third-rate planet can be the key to the entire galaxy" thing, but god, it's so over-played after that. I am so tired of Tatooine I could die. Let that dog die already. New planets for a new game: Coruscant could work, although if you're fighting the *true* Sith, most of your time will be spent beyond the Rim. So that means entirely new planets... ugh, just had a thought. How about Kamino (which is beyond the Outer Rim), before the Kaminoans made those huge cities? Not that I want it, but it's something to consider. Maybe one or two other planets from the old games, but frankly I think a new game should have all new planets.

I know this may fly in the face of the title of the game, but how about the main character be a non-Jedi? He can just be some Republic soldier or some other thing, and he'll get paired up with some Jedi as he travels the galaxy (to preserve the "Knights" of Knights of the Old Republic; besides, "knight" doesn't necessarily have to deal with the Jedi, we've had plenty of knights in Earth history without them being Jedi. How about the knights are just brave, fearless people who fight for "good" and not just Jedi?). The storyline would be about them as much as it will be about you, but at least you wouldn't be some central character upon whose shoulders the battle of good vs. evil ultimately rests. That would be up to a few of your party members; you just help them along, and you get guidance from them and vice versa. I know someone else mentioned they were tired of that, and I kind of am, too. Everything shouldn't have to depend on you and your "elite squad," as that someone put it. Of course, if you decide during your travels you don't want to help the Jedi anymore, maybe you can set things in motion with the Sith or some other party to have the Jedi in your party killed. That way, you'll be free to do as you see fit. At least the Jedi in your party will be more likely to have their influence toward you affected when you do good or bad things, which could tie in the stronger influence thing.

As for the Jedi, I remember KotOR II was supposed to be all about you being the last Jedi, which was clearly misadvertised. Kreia, Atris, the three Council members you go hunt down, they were all Jedi (you may disagree with Kreia being a Jedi, but, after all, "Jedi" is merely a title). Even Bastilla shows up in the game, if you make certain choices; I found that out tonight, and it surprised me when I saw her come up to Carth after our discussion, because I hadn't thought about that at all. So clearly there are some Jedi out there still, because Kreia couldn't possibly be certain there weren't; she was surprised to learn about the Council members, she found them to be unknowns which had to be dealt with (and Bastilla never got dealt with in my game). Who knows how many more there could be? But at least this way, there are still scattered Jedi to continue the Jedi way. But maybe that could be the plot of the third game: you're trying to gather up the remaining Jedi to reform the Jedi Order. After all, they scattered in the face of the threat posed by Nihilus and the Sith assassins; with them pretty much out of commission, they'll need to reorganize.

I still don't think Revan should return. But if s/he does, make him/her an NPC, and give him/her a new mask so you don't have to worry about male/female features. Plus, since you never heard Revan's voice, you can make the voice gender neutral so you're allowed to think whatever you want; or make it mechanized as the mask can distort the voice. You don't even have to worry about the light/dark side endings, as Revan will be rather absent in combat with you; if you wind up doing any work together, it can be like it was with the one Mandalorian (I forget the name) where you both split up and fight Tobin's scouts. If you spy Revan fighting at all, s/he'll be fighting with his/her lightsaber and that's really all you need to see (the mask, voice, and the lack of powers you watch Revan use in battle would be a rather cheap if effective way of covering up every choice you made in the first two games concerning Revan). If, however, Revan does wind up a party member, Revan should be neutral instead of light or dark, like Kreia, with powers from both sides. After all, Revan learned from Kreia, and she--much like Vergere--seemed to believe the Force had no sides; it depends on how you use it (which makes more sense to me anyway). Anyway, when you pose Kreia with the idea that Revan was a monster, or that Revan "fell," she challenges that idea entirely; who knows if Revan truly fell to the dark side? S/he just did what s/he thought was necessary to strengthen the galaxy, and to heck with such things as "light" and "dark" sides. So Revan won't be concerned with being a "Jedi" or a "Sith;" Revan will be concerned with fighting the *true* Sith and strengthening the Republic.

I've rambled on for far too long, so I'll finish now.

[Admo]

Darth Bane's proclamation of there being only two is EXACTLY why Yoda says this in the films, and yes it is constantly disproven in the KotOR storylines. Except for the fact that Darth Bane decided that there should only be two and the Sith Order should stay secret to prevent it destroying itself (as almost happened) until such a time would arise when they could have revenge (hence, Episode III: Revenge of the Sith), only about 950 years before the events of the Phantom Menace. KotOR is set almost 4000 years before this time, so its basically the usual free-for-all that is all that really kept the Sith from power - themselves.

Also, in KotOR II the Sith believed you to be the last of the Jedi. Even though you had left the Jedi order. Kreia doesn't count because she is a Sith, and the 3 Jedi Masters had more or less renounced the order, and could not use their powers (I think only really Kavar did anything).

As for non-Jedi, I believe this would have to be a choice, because a lot of the attraction of Star Wars is the Jedi Knights - like someone said, people who are chivalrous, brave and self-less. That is more or less what the Jedi Order is supposed to stand for.

[Chimaera182]

Yes, but you can't tell me there aren't lots of people out there who thought Han Solo had appeal. What'd he do? He travelled with a Jedi (Obi-Wan) and then a snobby Princess and an upstart Jedi, and he became such an integral part of the story as a result.

Also, there's a difference between fandom and the actual storyline. Darth Bane's proclamation of only two Sith is fandom. The actual storyline, as dictated by George Lucas, is going to be however he chooses it and to hell with fandom--something he definitely proved with Boba Fett. I still think the "always two there are" makes a lot of sense as I said: someone had to train Darth Maul. Maybe the basis of the comment has to do with Darth Bane, but my reason still holds true.

In KotOR II, you were exiled from the Jedi order, and Kreia was exiled from the Sith. So if you're not really a Jedi, she's not really a Sith. The three Jedi Masters *were* Jedi, but they had chosen to scatter in the face of the threat posed by Nihilus and the Sith assassins. The self-imposed exile was merely to hide from the threat, but it didn't mean they weren't Jedi any longer. Besides, there was also Atris; she was a Jedi, fallen though she was. Jedi and Sith are just titles, like Kreia said.

And I think I was the one who mentioned the knights were brave and self-less: "How about the knights are just brave, fearless people who fight for "good" and not just Jedi?" But that was me saying that about ordinary people, not just Jedi.

[Greg.]

I forgot to mention several things in the last post - I had just got back form watching Revenge of the Sith.

A storyline that is actually divergent based on choices about alignment would be a great feature - in KOTOR 1 and 2 there was no real change. In KOTOR the only difference is you fight Bastilla in the star forge and have different party options. In KOTOR 2 you get 1 different party member and very little different.

In KOTOR 3 you could fight real sith/rakatan or join them fairly early on. If you've seen Anakin storming the Jedi temple - you will have an idea of the Dark side.

[Chimaera182]

Actually, I've been thinking... if Revan does return, s/he'll be a light sider, or neutral. If Revan had retaken his/her place as leader of the Sith, Revan could have continued using the Star Forge to continue building up the fleet (the dark side ending shows the Star Forge intact). The attacks on the Republic would continue, and once Revan remembered the threat beyond the Rim, Revan wouldn't have a reason to leave; after all, Revan has to solidify and strengthen the galaxy and has the resources to do it. The only real reason Revan would have to leave the galaxy proper is if Revan rejoined the Jedi Order and the Star Forge was destroyed.

[Admo]

Yes but Darth Bane's tale is the entire background for the film trilogy. It is probably part fandom/part Lucas, but at the very least it has been adopted by Lucas. Yoda says at the end of Episode I "Always two there are, no more, no less: a master; and an apprentice", to which Master Windu replies "But which was killed, the master or the apprentice?". This implies that there are always only two at any one time.

And this structure of the Sith Order was brought about precisely so that the Order could remain strong, the apprentice surpassing and usurping the master, but also that it could remain hidden, until it could take revenge on the Jedi. This is the whole reason Episode III is entitled Revenge of the Sith, because it is about the revenge that was promised by Darth Bane. Darth Maul's only line in Episode I supports this even further (completely over-repeated, but oh well!) - "at last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we will take our revenge", or words to that effect.

I agree with GregtheSleeper also, although the Rakatan's return is unlikely IMO. I think it should be based around a war with potentially more than 2 factions, depending on your allignment and influence also. For example, the "True Sith" storyline is probably going to come to a head, but you might also have a Sith Lord (potentially you) also entering the fray with the remains of the Sith Army. It might also be one of your companions?

I also think that a lot of mistakes have been made in the first two games (particularly the second, I guess the first had no plan for the others) in terms of how the story could continue while trying to maintain some open-endedness. So basically I think they should scrap any thought of trying to continue from all the potential endings and say that both Revan and the Exile were light-side males or something along those lines, and make a came that puts both of the first two games to shame! (In terms of storyline and nonlinearity at least!)

[alpha_hazard]

I would also really like to see some really evil uses of the jedi mind trick...I mean...like Zaalbar vs. Mission Evil...effecting party members in terrible ways, you know?

I would definitely like to meet more ghosts...like the one of the sith master in KOTOR I, ones that can give information and maybe increase or teach you a skill...or perhaps one you sort of have to exocise...(did I spell that correctly?)

I'd also like to meet more jedi masters and have the choice to kill or let them live...although the special ability the exile had would be sadly unpresent...or hard to explain at least.

more character availablity...like race choices, and maybe a special line of abilities available to only a certain race, or characters born in certain systems...like Visas' force sight (Which I still haven't figured out how to use)

[Chimaera182]

[QUOTE=Admo]Darth Bane's proclamation of there being only two is EXACTLY why Yoda says this in the films, and yes it is constantly disproven in the KotOR storylines. Except for the fact that Darth Bane decided that there should only be two and the Sith Order should stay secret to prevent it destroying itself (as almost happened) until such a time would arise when they could have revenge (hence, Episode III: Revenge of the Sith), only about 950 years before the events of the Phantom Menace. KotOR is set almost 4000 years before this time, so its basically the usual free-for-all that is all that really kept the Sith from power - themselves.[/QUOTE]


Isn't General Grievous Sith? (I haven't seen Episode 3 yet). So wouldn't that mean there was Grievous, Sidious, and Tyrannus? That's one, two, three, three Sith Lords. -does Count from Seasame Street laugh-

[alpha_hazard]

Grievous isn't a jedi though, he just uses lightsabers.

[Tovec]

Darth Bane

Ok I don't know what Darth Bane said about two but I don't really care. The reason that there are two is because there needs to be! The two is not limited to the Sith because there are two Jedi, the Master and the Apprentise -- Quoi-Gon-Gin and Obi-Wan, Darth Cidious and Darth Vader (sp? to all). The reason that Yoda said that there are always two is because tow are needed to complete the Jedi and Sith circles!

George Lucas defined the movies by researching different religions and finding how 'Evil' should be. GL made the movies then his lackeys made the history and you are quoting some Darth Bane that GL didn't write. He may have signed off on the SW refrences through out the years but he didn't write them. He made Yoda say it because it is a nessessary fact of life and religion and creation. There HAS TO BE a mentor and a learner! I will read what you guys said and say more to you but I'm done for now.

I am sorry that I used what ever profanities I did, implied or otherwise. I usually don't get this worked up but something just snapped after reading your thoughts about why there are two and how it was fortold.

[Chimaera182]

I had forgotten Grievous even existed until ten minutes ago, while on another thread; someone had his pic as their avatar. But he's not Sith? How lame. That makes me want to see Episode 3 even less.

[Admo]

Episode 3 is good, but that character wasn't overly well done. And yes, he just uses lightsabers (he is part droid), but he cannot use the force.

I agree with you partly Tovec, and yes George Lucas didn't write about Darth Bane - the word "Sith" wasn't something used in the first film at least - perhaps not in any of them, I don't really remember. All I'm saying is that has become accepted by everyone, and used a little bit in the films. The point is, the Jedi Order is made of, at its peaks, hundreds of Jedi Knights. They are trained one-on-one, master and apprentice, at least once they've finished their very basic training, but there are many of them.

The Sith Order consists ONLY of two - no more no less, as Yoda himself says. There are not many different pairs, there is only one, and that co-incides with Darth Bane, and his vow that the Sith would take revenge by remaining a covert and seeminly extinct order, waiting until they could strike and take power. Hence Darth Maul's single line, hence Yoda's words, hence the whole storyline of the prequels, hence Episode 3 being named "Revenge of the Sith". If Darth Bane is irrelevant, why is it called "Revenge"? One of the early titles that was being thrown around was "Return of the Sith", which would make sense in that case. But they are taking Revenge for something, so there is, at the very least, a Darth Bane type figure in their past.

I don't why everyone is challenging this, because ultimately it makes sense with everything that happens in the films. Otherwise, you'd probably see many more Sith kicking around, trying to take control by force.