What Do You Want in KotOR III?

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:22 pm

@Somni, yeah he knew, thats why he turned on the jedi and what not, or at least I think.

Tovec · Post by **Tovec** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:30 pm

The way I see it..

[QUOTE=twrts]The Sith and The Republic most join forces temporarily to stop the extinction of the Galaxy.The "True Sith" and what's left of the Republic are at war. Revan and The Exile died in the outer rim trying to delay their invasion. Bastilla along with Juhani is Trying to rebuild the Jedi Council along with the "Lost Jedi" of KOTOR2 (Handmaiden or Briana, Mira, Atton, Bao Dur and Disciple or Mical) to try and preserve the Jedi teachings and gather Knights to defend the Republic from being conquered or annahilated. Yuthura Ban from KOTOR is the leader of the "fallen Jedi" or Jedi "corrupted" by Revan but Nevertheless tried to rejoin with Bastilla's council. Both are at odds and un united and the TS is slowly conquering the Galaxy. While this is happening a trainee Republic Soldier who survives a crash landing on a unfamilliar planet (Unknown World from KOTOR) is rescued by an old man. The old man (Jolee Bindo) senses an enormous affinity for the Force within the young soldier and trains him in the Jedi way with hopes that he will help unite the Jedi and turn the tied of the TS Invasion.

I can't come up with a way for Juhani to come back But Jolee is Kolee. He has the right to come back and he's probably the only person capable of outwitting Revan (If You played DS of course) into thinking he was dead. As for the DS LS drama....that can be solved. What I'm proposing is a threat so great that either way u went with your previous pc's the affected people would have to unite for survival. Lemme make this simplier. A country is having a Nasty, Long Lasting civil war and it's about to be invaded by another country....wouldn't you think that the smart thing to do is put your differences aside until the outer imposing threat is gone. Maybe by mixing them together it really wont matter if Reven or Exile were DS or LS.[/QUOTE]

I love the idea that Jolee survived and you are right that he is the most likely to 'fake out' Revan. I like all the ideas proposed except this means it is only a LS victory so that Bastilla is rebuilding the order. I know there has to be a way to get around this. I like the idea of united forces to fight TS and the problems with Sith not giving a dam is that they would have to because their master (DS) Revan went off to fight and he lost. They would have to attack the TS even if it means uniting with the Republic. I think that this new game idea would also incorperate more options that we, before suggested, have named. I think it would work better if you started in the outer rim then worked your way back to the Core worlds. This would set it up nicely to be incharge of a space battle (as you gain more experience and respect). I think that the DS/LS dynamic wouldn't work like in the past where you try to over throw the (True) Sith in order to defeat them. I think it would be better if you had the power throughout the course of the game to shape events for either the remaing Sith or the Republic so that at the end of the TS war you could be the clear winner in a smaller skirmish. I hope you understand what I mean in all of this.

I also like the idea that you start out as a level 5 Jedi (you level up to level 5) and you flee (T)S from a Jedi hidden academy. I like the idea that for the first bit of your journey you have a Master. About half way through the game you could lose him to the order or to the DS depending on how you (ab)use him. Then you take a simple form of Jedi (or Sith) trials and are given your pretige class and a padawan of Sith or Jedi. You train them but they start to turn away to oposite of what you are. The reason they joined turn is because they joined which ever order when they shouldn't have.

I also like the idea of the True Sith being a dark version of the Rakatan Empire. Didn't the Rakatans descover Hyperspace travel and bring it to the Star Wars Galaxy from another one? I also seem to remember somethink Canderous said in the first game about a flash of light that went past the outer rim. I think it would be cool if the TS were enemies of Rak. and were following them from another galaxy. I think that the light that Canderous saw was a probe searching to see if there was Hyperspace inthe SW galaxy and if there was then it returned to the TS to sound an attack. I think that Revan knew this from talking to Canderous and from the Rak. and decided to go out and DS-Kill the DS force sensatives that would try to conquer Revan's galaxy or LS-to kill the TS to prevent them from harming the galaxy.

As for powers, I think that if you use a DS force and you are LS then you should move closer to neutral (I say neutral because moving DS would imply that you can get completely DS form using DS moves). Also I want it so that the longer you / more often use a power the less it is going to cost (and effect) you. I mean that in both KOTOR I and II, I was a DS with Heal. I want there to be a point in KOTOR III when being DS and using Heal (because I have had it so long) it to cost near what a LS would cost to use it.

I agree with the transportation problem. I think that they should have to buy one / acquire one from a shipping merchant. I think the ideal solution is that you take passage in your soon to be own ship something happens like you get in a fight over money with the captain when the TS ambush you (like Han Solo did in Ep4.). DS-you fight and kill him then try to run but the TS take over the ship or LS-you agree to pay him asap and you run but the TS take over the ship. In either case the TS capture you and somehow the captain is killed giving you his ship.

I enjoy the way the go to naboo idea was suggested. I think it would be cool if in KOTOR III we could set up some problems that area still apparant in the movies. Like if you did go to naboo and either kill the Jar-Jar Binks or save them from mercenaries so that either way they go into hiding and in 1000's of years to the movies the naboo people have made them into forgotten legend.

To Somni.. I think he found out after he destroyed the Star Forge. The KOTOR people (because they have to be) are not very clear about what happened from the end of KOTOR I to the beginning of KOTOR II. I don't know what to say about the Civil War because of supposed info. I think it would have worked out better in EVERY case if Kreia had been Bastilla. I mean this would explain how she knew everything about Revan and how she knew he went off to fight the TS. It just would have been simplier. I mean you could explain the difference as he being currupted by the DS and by her connection to her Master (Revan) and to you. The only problem would be some of what Kreia said throughout the game but that could have been fixed. I think that Revan was on his way to conquer the galaxy or that he was returning to reunite the Order when he found evidence about TS. This lead him to 'look up' his old master Kreia and find out how to go and attack them. This would explain how she knew about him and his plans. It also wouldn't be the first time that Revan stumbled along a plot. I mean he did find the Star Maps and the Star Forge. Then when redeemed he went on to find them again.

Revan_Reborn225 · Post by **Revan_Reborn225** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:43 am

[QUOTE=Chimaera182]
It's entirely possible Revan merely persuaded Jedi to follow him. Malak had to torture Bastila to make her turn, but he had to do it somewhere strong in the dark side. The Jedi under Revan had been changed by the war, shaped by it like Kreia said. But there's got to be more to it, and maybe your idea about that mask is part of it. But I have to wonder if maybe there weren't other Jedi who thought like Revan, when they found out about the 'real' threat. Maybe Revan just had to *show* them something was out there, a true threat to the galaxy itself, and the Jedi willingly followed Revan. After all, war makes bonds, and Kreia said Revan studied bonds extensively. If Revan could influence people through those bonds, it would be relatively easy to corrupt them. But if you ever read the Hand of Thrawn duology, Thrawn didn't need the Force; he simply showed people (such as Baron Fel) that something awful lurked out in the Outer Rim, and it not only convinced Fel but changed him entirely (it was noted at least once, by Mara, that the Fel she met then was very different from the Fel of old). If Revan showed the Jedi that something worse was lurking over the horizon, and they believed him/her, they'd very likely be willing to do whatever Revan thought was necessary to stop it (after all, s/he was a great war hero of the Republic now).[/QUOTE]

Revan used the intense Dark side energies of the Trayas Academy...s/he took jedi to EXTREMELY dark places where it was hard for them to even focus themselves then he simply mainpulated them and tested them until the Dark side got in...or at least that's how I understood it...I think of the Dark side as almost a living creature that tries to tunnel it's way into us...when we drop our defenses, it comes in and takes over...Revan took jedi to the places where the dark side was, and worked them until they dropped their defenses

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:02 am

[QUOTE=Somni]i have questions to anyone: did revan knew the real threat when he was the dark lord of the sith or did he find out after he destroyed the star forge?
I wonder what was it that lead him to believe or showed him what the real threat was after kotor 1.
I also wonder how at the end of kotor 2 kreia expected the exile to somehow find revan and help him against the threat cause kreia seemed to know what it is. why did kreia want the exile to kill her? and is it possible that the jedi council never spoke of kreia due to the reason that the council knew kreia had info that was about revan or the real threat or maybe info that the jedi teachings were corrupted?
i'm pretty sure the jedi council were afraid of revealing, if they knew, that there teachings were corrupted. they probably assumed that if they did release this info it might cause a division of jedis or possibly a civil battle.
i need those answers.[/QUOTE]

Revan knew. If you get the recording of Bastila (I forget if it's the holocron in Uthar's old room or on T3), she says that Revan was remembering more and more, and that s/he may have remembered something dangerous lurking in the Rim. And Kreia mentions how Revan left the military infastructure of the planets the Sith under his/her command intact, suggesting that the source of Revan's forces (Star Forge) wouldn't last, and there would be need for them.

As for Kreia, it is the Sith way. A Sith pupil who surpasses their master must kill them. And she was Sith. It sounds too straightforward and I don't like that explanation, but it makes sense. Besides, her time was over. She was weak, beaten, and she couldn't very well train a new order of Force users given that so many have perished. And she couldn't follow the exile and Revan into the unknown.

[QUOTE=Revan_Reborn225]Revan used the intense Dark side energies of the Trayas Academy...s/he took jedi to EXTREMELY dark places where it was hard for them to even focus themselves then he simply mainpulated them and tested them until the Dark side got in...or at least that's how I understood it...I think of the Dark side as almost a living creature that tries to tunnel it's way into us...when we drop our defenses, it comes in and takes over...Revan took jedi to the places where the dark side was, and worked them until they dropped their defenses[/QUOTE]

There has to be more to it than that, though. Kreia said it herself. It's not enough to just subject someone to the "dark side," but you're warping them completely. I've never thought of the dark side in entirely that manner; I suppose that'd put me in the Gray Jedi's camp. I always thought of Vergere when it came to the Force: there are no sides to the Force, it is one; it's the person who uses it that determines light or dark, it's the light or dark side in them. So there has to be more to Revan's ability to twist the other Jedi to follow him/her than just dragging them through places like the Trayus Academy to juice them up with the dark side.

A simpler explanation goes back to the 'bonds.' Revan formed that bond with Bastila, which kept them in check; and when Revan began recovering his/her memories and recalling who it was s/he had been, it was then that Basitla became truly vulnerable to the 'dark side.' Kreia said Revan studied bonds extensively, and in KotOR II you see how the bonds the exile created influenced nearly everyone on the ship (except Kreia, which is kind of odd in a way considering you're supposed to be bonded to her on such an extreme; and I don't buy her theory that being in combat shields them from the pain of the other; after all, she was in combat when her hand was cut off, and the Exile felt it when charging around a ship that was full of Sith Assassins (which means the Exile was in a state of combat, if not actually fighting at that moment)). The Jedi who fought with Revan had all formed a bond, and when Revan "fell," s/he dragged a lot of Jedi with him/her. It was when the Exile turned away from that, severed the bonds s/he had made with all those the Exile had served with, that cut the Exile off from the Force.

Revan_Reborn225 · Post by **Revan_Reborn225** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:04 pm

[QUOTE=Chimaera182]
There has to be more to it than that, though. Kreia said it herself. It's not enough to just subject someone to the "dark side," but you're warping them completely. I've never thought of the dark side in entirely that manner; I suppose that'd put me in the Gray Jedi's camp. I always thought of Vergere when it came to the Force: there are no sides to the Force, it is one; it's the person who uses it that determines light or dark, it's the light or dark side in them. So there has to be more to Revan's ability to twist the other Jedi to follow him/her than just dragging them through places like the Trayus Academy to juice them up with the dark side.

.[/QUOTE]

I never said that was all he did...I said he'd take them to these dark places and then begin manipulating them, whether that be through torture, persuasion, force bonding, etc., until the dark energies consumed them

I think pretty much anyone with a brain and a heart would be a Gray Jedi...the extremes of either Sith, or Jedi or stupid and provide no actual balance whatsoever which is what is supposed to be the goal...I've always compared the Jedi and Sith religions to politics...u've got the Jedi who are more socialists/communist, and the Sith who are pure capitalists/facists...either extreme is a bad thing, you need the balance of the two coming together

extremes are never good

Macen Press · Post by **Macen Press** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:46 pm

In kotor 3.I would like to see a the playable character start off in an academy under the training of Brienna(Handmaiden). Then she will tell you about the exile and then your quest would to be tofind the exile and revan.I would not like to see carth or bastila as playable characters as that would take away the whole create your own character concept.

Darth Pizza · Post by **Darth Pizza** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:24 pm

peeps who come along:
Handmaiden (jedi gaurdian)
Visas (jedi sentinel)
Atton (jedi Gaurdian)
Mission
Juhani (if u go dark)
T3-M4
HK-47
Mira (jedi consular (if u go light))

planets u getta visit:

Yavin VIII
tatooine
Nal hutta
Nar shadaa
Coresuant
Naboo

things should be added:

no ebon hawk this time!!
more weapons
more lightsaber colours
bigger cities
not that the graphics aint good but, MAKE EM BETTER!!
more feats and force powers
go up to level 100
MORE SPACE BATTLES!!!!!

Darth Moudi · Post by **Darth Moudi** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:38 pm

I think by what you mean by better graphics Darth Pizza is how slow it is.
On my computer their are spots where the game runs smoothly and it looks absolutely amazing and you dont even know the graphics are that good. Mainly the graphics are rough on my computer like the characters dont move smoothly. I hate that. Sometimes that why I wish i had it on Xbox. When I get into duals in smooth spots its awsome.
By the way this is off the topic but does anyone know how to take screenshots?

Darth Moudi · Post by **Darth Moudi** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:40 pm

By the way dont get your hopes up guys cuz they havent even started KOTOR II yet sadly.

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:45 pm

Well, I can draw two conclusions from that, one good, one bad.

Good conclusion: when they DO start it, they'll take their time, won't rush it like KotOR II, and finish it without regard to this holiday season.

Bad conclusion: they'll start it, rush it, and get it in stores in time for this holiday season.

Tovec · Post by **Tovec** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:48 pm

I think that KOTOR 3 needs..

I have posted a lot on this tread but never in the way I am going to. I think that KOTOR II needs:

To start out with not only your character creation but Revan and the Exiles. This way the multiple story options can be put to death before they start. This way you don't have to answer not so vague questions from the new Carth/Atton.

Planets:
I definately want to see Currasant (multiple times of day!) I think that it has to be done better than in Jedi Outcast.
Othre than that I don't really care but I think it would be cool if you started near the outer rim then worked your way back to wards the core worlds. Hit a few old KOTOR planets like Tatooine,Dantooine,Korriban then move clser into the core worlds and look at other 'exotic' planets. I think that there has to be more than just one 'exotic' marshey tree lined planet how about 2 or 3. I'm not saying that they need all be like Kassek (major SP?) but just more than one. I mean common there are soo many alien cultures but only Human(oid) planets are explored.
I also think there has to be like 15 planets in total (excluding the DS/LS planets).

I want to see more aliens!
More colours for lightsabers but I don't know how. Maybe different shades of Red.
I want the crystals in the blade to change its colour slightly. I mean you have a Yellow JearneaU (SP?) from KOTOR I and my blade was blue and it sayed blue.

Up until now I have focused on the plot.

There WILL be more later bet on it! I just need some time to think of it.

Macen Press · Post by **Macen Press** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:37 pm

Another thing to add to kotor 3 if it hasnt been mentioned is a few voices could be added for your character as it ruins it when ur talking but u cant listen to your own bloke/women talking.

B0r4n · Post by **B0r4n** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:17 pm

Not choose, but resist

Lol so obviously I didn't read the whole bit

I read like the first pages and I totally agree.

But I'd like to have 1 more thing in it, it should be actually difficult to resist the dark side, in the earlier games you can easily choose whether you go light or dark.
When you want to play light I think they should invent some way its actually difficult to resist the dark side.

Maybe something that everything you do (and I mean everything) has an effect on light and dark. Even taking some medpacs from someone else his room would get you some dark points (not much of course) if you know what I mean.

And it shouldnt let you know you got light or dark points as they do in the 1st one (didn't quite get to playing 2nd yet

).
Cuz then you can easily see if you are going dark and reload from an earlier quicksave.

Thats what I think at least, light siders should actually resist the dark side, not choose not to be dark.

This is probably an utophia (or however they say it in english, not my birth language

) tho...

Greg. · Post by **Greg.** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:35 pm

A reasonable number of lightsabers this time. In KOTOR there were far too many and in KOTOR2 there were not enough if you got as many jedi improved as possible.

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:57 pm

[QUOTE=GregtheSleeper]A reasonable number of lightsabers this time. In KOTOR there were far too many and in KOTOR2 there were not enough if you got as many jedi improved as possible.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, this is easily explainable.

There's a direct correlation between the amount of lightsabers in KotOR I and II to the number of Jedi/Sith that are actually in the Star Wars universe. In KotOR I, the Jedi Order is still alive and kicking, albeit weaker than it could have been. Also, there were so many Sith. With that being said, there's an obvious abundance of lightsabers in the galaxy, so it shouldn't be a surprise you find so many. On the other hand, in KotOR II, how many Jedi or Sith are around? Not very many. The Jedi Order is effectively extinct, and the Sith are pretty much in disarray, with so few left. A lack of lightsabers is to be expected. Depending on the situation in the third game, how many Jedi/Sith there will be, that will likely determine how many lightsabers will appear.

Tovec · Post by **Tovec** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:15 pm

Not really belonging here but I need to say...

Ok about the last post by Chimaera182, I want to know how did they write the ending to KOTOR I for KOTOR II? I mean at certain times it seemed like Jedi won because there is no giant Sith fleet and Republic still stands. In other ways it seems like Sith won because there isn't an Order. I mean it seems like in order to make it so that neither side won they had it so that neither side won? I mean that they made it completely neutral, I maybe wrong, but I would have liked a definate position! I mean they should/could have made it so THEY decided what happened at the end of KOTOR I. I think I may have enjoyed KOTOR II more if they did. If they decided that Revan was a LS female she would have taken over the Galaxy then left to find TS. Not make it so that Revan(pick and choose) just for some reason left to find/fight them. I think it would have made for a better gaming experience in KOTOR II no matter how let down people are by the decision. I think that they should have made it that KOTOR I was set in stone in KOTOR II but let people play KOTOR I in order to play it. Let people become Sith Lord or Honoured Jedi Master. In leaving it open ended they let too many possiblities and just gave (me) a worse sense of what happened. This also would have perfectly set up for a KOTOR III, assuming you are not Exile. That way they tell you the rules then what to do!

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:42 pm

[QUOTE=Tovec]Ok about the last post by Chimaera182, I want to know how did they write the ending to KOTOR I for KOTOR II? I mean at certain times it seemed like Jedi won because there is no giant Sith fleet and Republic still stands. In other ways it seems like Sith won because there isn't an Order. I mean it seems like in order to make it so that neither side won they had it so that neither side won? I mean that they made it completely neutral, I maybe wrong, but I would have liked a definate position! I mean they should/could have made it so THEY decided what happened at the end of KOTOR I. I think I may have enjoyed KOTOR II more if they did. If they decided that Revan was a LS female she would have taken over the Galaxy then left to find TS. Not make it so that Revan(pick and choose) just for some reason left to find/fight them. I think it would have made for a better gaming experience in KOTOR II no matter how let down people are by the decision. I think that they should have made it that KOTOR I was set in stone in KOTOR II but let people play KOTOR I in order to play it. Let people become Sith Lord or Honoured Jedi Master. In leaving it open ended they let too many possiblities and just gave (me) a worse sense of what happened. This also would have perfectly set up for a KOTOR III, assuming you are not Exile. That way they tell you the rules then what to do![/QUOTE]

The ending was open-ended to encompass whichever choices you chose in the first game. The fact is, though, that I can't believe Revan--if s/he reclaimed the mantle of Sith Lord--would just abandon the war against the Republic; you'd think Revan would finish what s/he started, especially once Revan remembered the "real" threat. Frankly, I think this means that Revan is intended to have gone Jedi and the Star Forge was destroyed.

Also, the Republic *did* win the war, even if Revan reclaimed his/her position as leader of the Sith. The Sith were beaten back eventually, their forces annihiliated, and they were no longer a threat. The fact that the Jedi Order was destroyed was only in part due to the Jedi Civil War; the rest of the Jedi Order was assassinated after the war's end, and those that weren't killed then were trapped on Visas' homeworld when Nihilus struck. But not all the Jedi were killed; you have the four masters who exiled you (and survived since then), plus if you chose the light-side ending to I, you see Bastila survived, as well. I think they left it so you choose the ending to KotOR I as appeal, because they let the gamer choose how the game played out. It probably has some appeal, but when it comes to a series, it lacks in something. I pointed out before how Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight was the same way; you could have Kyle Katarn take over the Empire and become a powerful dark Jedi, but when you get to Mysteries of the Sith, it's clear that he did no such thing. Instead, they took away the choice that Kyle turned to the dark side and make it that he never turned. Something like that is bound to happen in KotOR III, unless they intend to kill Revan and Bastila off (which may be for the better).

I hope I answered your question...

darthdude99 · Post by **darthdude99** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:46 pm

I want revan back

different lightsaber hilts
larger worlds
space battles
more controlable NPCs and return of all the old ones
play as a fully developed jedi/sith and be able to learn stuff as you progress
a fully costomizable look (like in Tony Hawks Under Ground)
kill anybody

have a romance side quest
and lessen your universal importance (like taking away the fact that your the only on who can save the universe)

Tovec · Post by **Tovec** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:35 pm

PC - not NPC

Ok first its been said before but its Playable Characters and Non-Playable Characers!

Ok I'm done with that. Next to Chimaera182, thank you. You semi-answered questions I didn't have but thank you anyway. I was just (retorically) asking.

Onto KOTOR III, I like the custom hilts but I really don't see much of a 'need' for them unless a specific design makes you more suceptable to DS. I think that your team should be semi-mercenaries! I mean have an active minor party of say 10 (excuding you). Of those 10 have your major active party (2 + U). BUT have like 25 team-mates you could have. Make it so that you can go into a cantina and go no to one person but yes to the person right beside. I mean that the 25 characters would have different strenghts and weaknesses so that your party becomes really customizable. I mean hire fallen Jedi or gun jocks. The interesting componant would be that the best Jedi, etc. would cost more than others. Get from a list of like 5 Jedi, 5 Sith, 5 skill elites, 5 worker drones, and 5 droids! This would allow for a fully emersed gaming experience. It could allow you to have actual Sith (not sith masters but just evil), to mold and maybe resore to LS or to embrace you as DS. I think its an interesting idea that I completely blew out of proportion!

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:12 pm

This is probably unique to me, but if we have the influence system, can we at least get advice from our party members? There are just times--like right now, I'm on Telos--that I just want to turn to someone and say, "What do you think?" I always think that when I'm on Telos, deciding between the Ithorians and Czerka, and want to know what Kreia thinks I should do. It'd be handy to ask your party members for advice on how to do something or what to do somewhere, and if you followed it, at least you could get a smidge of influence with them. "Atton, what do you think I should do?" "Put the barrel of a blaster in your mouth and pull the trigger." "Okay." -BLAST!- "Ooh, and the blood spatter on the wall looks so artistic." (Influence gained: Atton) It's like KotOR started to mess around with it, but decided against it; I'm referring to the Gizka on the Ebon Hawk and the girl Sasha in the cargo hold, where you can ask your party members for recommendations, but they tell you to solve it yourself.