This is how Kotor 3 is going to be!

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:03 pm

How else would he have learnded the power, if plageous never taught his powers, only to his apprentice. I know, I know go ahead and say that he was liying to anakin and that he never leardned it, but think of it will ya?

tj_92 · Post by **tj_92** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:45 am

alrite i dont know im just pretty sure i read somewhere that because of all the betrayal bane changed the sith teachings cause if you bone if you read about the battle between the jedi and bane when bane was sith lord then everyone betrayed him i forgot how it goes thought lol

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:13 pm

[QUOTE=Darth Zenemij]How else would he have learnded the power, if plageous never taught his powers, only to his apprentice. I know, I know go ahead and say that he was liying to anakin and that he never leardned it, but think of it will ya?[/QUOTE]

He lied to Anakin.

Palpatine claimed that there were records of Plagus and his power, though. He said the Jedi knew all about him but don't like to tell that story. Of course, he could've lied about that, as well. And Plagus didn't teach his apprentice that power; the power was lost when Plagus was murdered.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:31 pm

Well, I never knew that oh well.

mrthingyx · Post by **mrthingyx** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:42 am

[QUOTE=tj_92]alrite i dont know im just pretty sure i read somewhere that because of all the betrayal bane changed the sith teachings cause if you bone if you read about the battle between the jedi and bane when bane was sith lord then everyone betrayed him i forgot how it goes thought lol[/QUOTE]

You're "correct" as far as current Star Wars lore goes... Darth Bane indeed instigated the Master/Apprentice system: prior to that, anybody could be a dark Jedi that wanted to learn (Korriban/Malachor/etc.) but if they wanted to be 'Sith' they had to either pledge allegiance to or kill the Dark Lord him/herself. How else would Malak amass such an army of dark Jedi? How could there be an entire 'Sith' planet of dark Jedi? the "always two there are" line from Episode I is given by Yoda, but he's only been around for 850 years by that point.

The Master/apprentice system has a history in the Jedi Order, too - the Temple on Coruscant is basically a Jedi boarding school/university as Luke instigated on Yavin IV, the only difference being the 'graduation' of the more promising students to 'Padawan' in the Old Republic and Luke finally getting enough older Jedi to restablish that tradtion, too.

Yes, the Dark Lord has his/her favoured apprentice, but that's the way it goes: everybody's entitled to have their favourite.

As to the rest of the story, it sounds ok but there are plenty of things that I would change: there is nothing to suggest that they are any different from your average dark Jedi other than they are an actual 'race' who descend from the unions of ex-Republic members (Jedi outcasts) and the Krath, rather than the 'New' Sith (started by Revan) who were 'followed a certain philosphy/ideal; as such, they would probably not be any different from the average baddy in their ability to wield the force. Just differently coloured hair.

Also, I believe LucasArts have actually stated the 'canonical' endings for both the KOTOR games so far: both are supposed to be light-sided (i.e. Revan goes off to fight the Sith by himself after destroying Malak for the good of the galaxy and The Exile does the same to Kreia, all the time trying to turn them back from the brink). Yes, the player-chosen dark side endings are fine but are just that. Finish KOTOR I as a dark sider and the whole idea behind Revan's disappearance is nullified with hindsight: he came back to conquer the galaxy for a reason: to either whip the Republic into (literally) fighting trim should he die trying or conquer them and install himself as their leader to fight the true Sith. If you end KOTOR I as the Dark Lord reborn, you conquer the galaxy regardless so there would have been no need to run off by yourself: why pansy around with guerilla warfare when you have the Star Forge to play with?

The end to KOTOR II is 'meant' to be a light-sided one, too...

Now, it's hinted at in KOTOR II than Revan was probably the only Jedi to 'choose' to follow the teachings of the Sith (rather than falling to the dark side), as he believed that it was the only to defeat the true Sith. This could be because it would allow him to travel the Sith Empire without anybody really batting an eyelid (the Exile must have been an absolute nail to do so as a Jedi), but at the end of the first game - in conversations with Bastila/Malak - Revan says he was stronger as a reborn Jedi than he ever was before as the Dark Lord (considering the can of whoop-ass I opened at the Star Forge when I played it, I'd agree...

) andtells them both that neither side is effectively stronger than the other. My interpretation of this, combined with the 'officially sacntioned' ending to the story is that Revan realised that to walk the light path was just as strong as the dark one and so there was no need to return to the dark side to destroy the true Sith.

In the end, this is going to go around in circles until Obsidian/Bioware/Raven/etc. put us out of our misery and announce the third installment.

Kaja Sinis · Post by **Kaja Sinis** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:18 am

Allow me to PEACEFULLY help clear some air here.

In response to Chimaera182, Palpatine was indeed Darth Plagueis apprentice. I have a very extensive copy of the history of the Jedi and the Sith from start to finish, and I quote a passage from it,

"...After this, Plagueis apprenticed a young boy from Naboo, Dantius Palpatine and dubbed him Darth Sidious. Plagueis had several kyber crystals and eventually gave Palpatine one of these kyber crystals. The kyber crystals were forged by the Rodar Wizards of Perdonis and scattered throughout the Galaxy, about 100,000 years before the events of The Phantom Menace. Unbeknownst to Plagueis, Palpatine had found a far more potent kyber crystal than anything Imperius had. Palpatine located it on the planet Moovis, which he purchased from Ushkar Madcra, a bounty hunter who sold it as junk. This potent kyber crystal made Palpatine too powerful for his master to control. On the planet Skaggis, Palpatine killed Plagueis in his sleep when Plagueis was 52 years old."

Now as far as opinions go with KOTOR III, I believe that the game should be played as both the Exile and Revan, and both representing the Light Side of the Force. Why? Because the whole point of KOTOR was that Revan was to redeem himself and save the Republic from Malak. Now it could be construed as killing Malak out of vengeance, but that doesn't hold enough weight for me with the whole Lucas vision. And if anyone knows anything about the English language, it's entirely derived. Revan's name itself can be broken down to support this LS theory. Everyone putt the thinking cap on for a sec. The prefix "re" is relative to "new" or "again". (As in re-write, where you're writing fresh or again.) The words "a" and "an" as defined even in Biblical time, refers to a beginning. Revan means, "new beginning". I believe this to imply that Revan walked a LS path in KOTOR for redemption with the Force. If you think about it, I'm not just being a Star Wars geek about this. It actually does make sense. Another prime example is Anakin. "An" again refers to a beginning, and "kin" is a reference to lineage. It's true. Anakin was the beginning of kin. The first of a line of Skywalkers that would succeed him as powerful Jedi. If any of you are Star Wars fanatical nerds such as I, and wish to further learn the origins and ways of the Force, I'd gladly e-mail you a copy of this Jedi/Sith galactic historical summation. It's about 9 pages, and the organizer could use some English classes, but it's damn interesting.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:34 pm

Kaja Sinis wrote:In response to Chimaera182, Palpatine was indeed Darth Plagueis apprentice. I have a very extensive copy of the history of the Jedi and the Sith from start to finish, and I quote a passage from it,

"...After this, Plagueis apprenticed a young boy from Naboo, Dantius Palpatine and dubbed him Darth Sidious. Plagueis had several kyber crystals and eventually gave Palpatine one of these kyber crystals. The kyber crystals were forged by the Rodar Wizards of Perdonis and scattered throughout the Galaxy, about 100,000 years before the events of The Phantom Menace. Unbeknownst to Plagueis, Palpatine had found a far more potent kyber crystal than anything Imperius had. Palpatine located it on the planet Moovis, which he purchased from Ushkar Madcra, a bounty hunter who sold it as junk. This potent kyber crystal made Palpatine too powerful for his master to control. On the planet Skaggis, Palpatine killed Plagueis in his sleep when Plagueis was 52 years old."

Now, thats what I also read, I only got hold of that exat part though. Plagious did thrain Palpatine.

Now as far as opinions go with KOTOR III, I believe that the game should be played as both the Exile and Revan, and both representing the Light Side of the Force.

And thats where the Dissagree ments end. You should still be able to decide the fate of the Galexy, it really shouldn't be decided for you allready, and The Exlie, If you think about it, then was really darksided anyway, (s)he fell to the dark side in the mandalorian wars, and was later Exiled. Now tell me, that if you were exiled beacuse of te Council's idiotic decision, that you would also want Revenge? I mean, they just sat there watching countless Jedi and numerous troops die, when they should be helpinng. They were afraid, they didn't want to die, or fall to the dark side.

Why? Because the whole point of KOTOR was that Revan was to redeem himself and save the Republic from Malak. Now it could be construed as killing Malak out of vengeance, but that doesn't hold enough weight for me with the whole Lucas vision.

Well, it holds enough weight for revan to go dark sided. You cannot kill any body out of Vengance, or if that person was a prisioner.[QOUTE]And if anyone knows anything about the English language, it's entirely derived. Revan's name itself can be broken down to support this LS theory. Everyone putt the thinking cap on for a sec. The prefix "re" is relative to "new" or "again". (As in re-write, where you're writing fresh or again.) The words "a" and "an" as defined even in Biblical time, refers to a beginning. Revan means, "new beginning". I believe this to imply that Revan walked a LS path in KOTOR for redemption with the Force.[/QUOTE] BTW thats latin my friend. "re" meaning back or again i.e, rewind, report etc etc. Otherwise, you got it right.

If you think about it, I'm not just being a Star Wars geek about this. It actually does make sense. Another prime example is Anakin. "An" again refers to a beginning, and "kin" is a reference to lineage. It's true. Anakin was the beginning of kin. The first of a line of Skywalkers that would succeed him as powerful Jedi.

Again, this is latin. You got it right.

If any of you are Star Wars fanatical nerds such as I, and wish to further learn the origins and ways of the Force, I'd gladly e-mail you a copy of this Jedi/Sith galactic historical summation. It's about 9 pages, and the organizer could use some English classes, but it's damn interesting.

I'll be glad to learn such things. I will p.m you my email adress later.

Kaja Sinis · Post by **Kaja Sinis** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:25 am

Sorry

Yea I figured most of it was Latin if not all of it. I just have a hard time remembering what is Greek derived, and Roman, etc. aside from mythology. And for anyone who P.M.'d me their e-mail address for the "Brief History of the Jedi and Sith", I just recently replied and sent it as an attachment file along with 3 others: A midichlorian count list, a "Most Powerful Jedi Ever" list, and a "Most Powerful Sith Ever" list as well. I apologize for the wait. Any more takers are welcome, and may the force be with us all.

Teffticals · Post by **Teffticals** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:52 am

the way 3 should be from my point of view

hey i have got a cool idea i think someone said something about it but if you do play as the dark side in KOTOR 2 and you help Gen Valak if i spelt it right you can get him to give you all the FS he has on the planet "to protect the planet from jedi" which you didnt end up getting....pissed me right the hell off lol but as either side dark or light the true sith are a threat that needs to be delt with now if they go that far as to fight them in the 3rd one we dont know. I also believe that you were ment to be light side at the ending of both but it is more fun to be darkside and kill people with lighting storm not to great of a power...... but ya i think the exile should go find Revan with Visa's help because she can find anyone with her cool little power lol and then tell him that he needs to come back so they can restart the order. and there will always be dark jedi or sith lords coming from the outer rim because of the force being so great around the places revan and the exile traveled but ya in the 3rd one i think it should just be all about rebuilding the order because they always need to leave room for a new one. so they rebuild the order and you get to find and train the young ones but not really take any under your wing because then like a couple people have said you can one have one apprentice which would make it very hard to regrow the order fast. So you would jsut need to find a bunch of them and teach them in the ways of the force and then pick one that is really strong and get to chose which class s/he wants to be and then each of the jedi/sith but they really couldnt be sith would all have to be jedi from the old ones are masters and get to each find their own to teach after you got a crap load of little kids. like in the 3rd movie when you see all the kids they dont all have their own master teachign them but when they get to the point when they are ready they wil they are just learn how to use the force at that time. but ya you could either rebuild the temple on Dant or make your own and like design it yourself which would also be a cool extra. and of course you will have you big strong bad guys in it. but the point of this one should be to get enough jedi to go to war against a huge empire and then in the 4th one have it so you go to war with the True Sith and at the start of that one get to chose you own team of like 5 or 6 jedi to fight with and use them all the time not only 3 at a time im sick of games like that. and the 5 or 6 will be already well trained from the 3rd one but they will get more intuned with the force from battleing such powerful dark things lol. Not to pat my own back but i think that is a kick ass good idea from some stupid football player lol but tell me what you guys think thansk for reading

Jedi Thomas · Post by **Jedi Thomas** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:12 pm

Finding Revan will not be the 3rd!

It will not. Doing that would be the finally of the Kotor series. Most people probally bought Kotor II either A) Thinking you would play as Revan or B) Heard that Kotor I was a awesome game. Now for those from group A once you found out what happened to Revan there would be no need to play anymore. I myself was from group A and was angry when they didnt give much information on what happened to him/her. But I realize now they are doing it to keep people coming back for more in hope they find out what happened to there idle.

Elias De vere · Post by **Elias De vere** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:14 pm

How do you know Anakin wasn't the chosen one, perhaps there were loads of chosen ones before him, and he was the one for his era? Perhaps Revan was the first chosen one and he has something to do wiht the regeneration of the sith empire, or destruction of it. also in the movie, Ep 3 he kills the jedi of, betraying the prophecy froma certain perspective, and although this may have been said before, he bought balance to the force, 2 sith, 2 jedi (we know of) left, hence balance. if you ask me, i reckon they should go to earth, but it is in the time of dinosaurs, or cavemen, and the final battle is over a massive lava pit!!! (like all good trilogy endings!)

Darth Trahus · Post by **Darth Trahus** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:27 pm

Actually, The Prophecy states: The Chosen One will bring balance to the force and destroy the Sith.

This happens, in the long end.

Oh, and if Earth is discovered, it is not mentioned in the Movies or Jedi Archives at the time of the Galactic Empire. If Earth were to be discovered, it would be in the very far future of the Star Wars galaxy and our distant future.

Klipsch_V · Post by **Klipsch_V** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:23 pm

Actually, The Prophecy states: The Chosen One will bring balance to the force and destroy the Sith.

I would love to know were you got that from. In order for there to be balance the sith must always exists, other wise it isn't balance because their would then be more good in the galaxy than evil.

@Elias De vere and Darth Trahus

What was so hard about "in a galaxy far, far away"? The Star Wars universe will never visit, mention, or even hint at Earth being in the galaxy because it would just completely destroy Star Wars.

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:33 am

Thank you, Klipsch. The Star Wars galaxy is far away and has nothing to do with Earth. There will be no Earth, no mention of Earth, nothing to do with Earth.

As for the prophecy, prophecies are sometimes vague so that, in a way, no matter the outcome, the prophecy can look to be fulfilled (I forget which leader it was, I think it was Darius of Persia, visited the Oracle of Delphi before deciding to attack a neighboring empire, and the Oracle's prophecy was that "a great empire would be destroyed;" the Oracle, of course, was right: Darius' empire was destroyed as a result of his attacking his neighbor). As for balance where 2 Jedi and 2 Sith are concerned, I don't think that's entirely what they had in mind, either. Anyway, I think you're reading too much into a fictional prophecy. It's extremely unlikely any prophecy that refers to Anakin will appear in KotOR III.

Darth Trahus · Post by **Darth Trahus** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:08 pm

I didn't think anyone would discover earth, I was simply telling Elias that Earth might not get mentioned. Although in the future, the star wars universe could discover earth (highly unlikly).

yoyopogo104 · Post by **yoyopogo104** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:37 pm

*possible spoilers throughout for those who havnt finished the first 2 games!*

man, oh, man...reading through this stuff gives me such a freakin headache, it aint even funny

but, i have to admit, i enjoy reading all of these posts, so i guess u could say i enjoy the headaches, too!

ive been thinkin about em, too, and i have some stuff ima just say...and forget quotes, thats too much work. most of the stuff ima talk about was already mentioned in this thread, neways...

first of all, forget having KOTOR III being anything about the movies. according to wikipedia (im pretty sure their list of sith lords is accurate, right?) the last major sith lord we have seen in kotor games was malak, right? ok, well, in the movies they start with sidious and mention plagueis, so watch how long the list of lords is in between malak and plagueis: Darth Ruin, The Dark Underlord, Belia Darzu, Darth Rivan, Lord Kaan, Lord Qordis, Lord Kopecz, Lady Githany, Darth Bane (hey! what do u know? now the whole 2-sith deal starts!), Darth Zannah, Darth Millennial, Darth Andeddu, and finally Darth Plagueis. *phew* so, with this, i think its pretty safe to say that a) lucas arts has lots of games to make and money to be made (if they really want to) and b) cathcing up to the movies any time soon is out of the question.

secondly *ponders* oh, yeah...this thread was about fjdude's veiw of how the next kotor should be. i liked a few of his ideas, so ima say which ones those were *searches threads*

the idea with having the "true sith" child would make a good way to start the game. as fjdude said, revan and the exile could have started to train him/her but would send him/her in some pod to a place out of the outer rim. i think it would be awesome to send the child to Kashyyyk (a mid rim territory). just think...jolee bindo could have returned to his little tree house and discovered the child's pod. this way, you're ready to be a jedi (or sith) in no time.

by the way, ive been wondering...did they say revan and the exile went to the outer rim or the unknown regions of space? cause if it was the outer rim they wouldnt really have gone far. Dantooine, Tatooine, Korriban, and Taris were all in the outer rim territories.

the others were closer to the core or unknown, i guess...

anyways, i think im slowly starting to agree more and more w/ zen about not being able to play revan or the exile. i think they should just stay out wherever they are and keep on fightin. perhaps sometimes revan can flash bastila some visions as to whats goin on out there or sumthin if shes still in the game.

as for the "true sith" or whatever...perhaps they arent the only threat. remember the HK droids from KOTOR II? perhaps they could finally reveal where they are coming from and that maybe the sith have been slowly producing them to attack the core worlds!

i have heard some people say theyd like to see the world kamino. i think itd be cool if they built the droids there (like in episode 2 or whatever one it is

). thatd be a wicked planet to visit, though...

another thing...the whole time we play kotor II they tell us "you are the last jedi" n crap when atton, bao-dur, handmaiden, and mira pop outta nowhere and are suddenly the capable butt-kickin jedi we needed. dont tell me im the last jedi if im really not, u know what im sayin?!

and how would they bring them back if they are jedi? would we play them? would they form the new coucil?

and remember juhani's master, quatra? what happened to her? i think they should bring her back so we can meet her or sumthin and make her like part of the new order/jedi council. and for people who wanted to see coruscant...what better place to build the jedi coucil? (does any one know when that jedi temple on coruscant was built neways? thatd be interesting to know...)

as for new characters, mayb the sith forgot some in the core worlds...it is a big universe...

*sighs* i could go on...if i think of somethin else to say, i guess u'll see it comin, wont u? peace out!

Darth Trahus · Post by **Darth Trahus** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:14 pm

breathe....

Perhaps you might want to send that one to LucasArts. You are defiantly on to something there.

yoyopogo104 · Post by **yoyopogo104** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:03 pm

wasnt just my ideas, though. as i said, some of em were fjdude's. but if something were to be sent to lucas arts id prefer other people's ideas be included, too...more like a group effort. "two minds are better than one!" *breathes*

besides...u think theyd really listen to us?

they probably have their ducks all lined up as we speak.

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:34 am

[QUOTE=yoyopogo104]
anyways, i think im slowly starting to agree more and more w/ zen about not being able to play revan or the exile. i think they should just stay out wherever they are and keep on fightin. perhaps sometimes revan can flash bastila some visions as to whats goin on out there or sumthin if shes still in the game.

[/QUOTE]

shhhhhhhh.... don't tell anyone, but a lot of people don't want to play as Revan.

[QUOTE=yoyopogo104]
and remember juhani's master, quatra? what happened to her? i think they should bring her back so we can meet her or sumthin and make her like part of the new order/jedi council. and for people who wanted to see coruscant...what better place to build the jedi coucil? (does any one know when that jedi temple on coruscant was built neways? thatd be interesting to know...)
[/QUOTE]

Hey, I've seen this before! In a couple other threads people wanted to see some of the older masters come back, maybe as playable even! Or other people. Zhar, Vandar, Dustil... they've all popped up. Still think its a good idea though.

And for everything else, good ideas.

Darth Trahus · Post by **Darth Trahus** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:53 pm

[QUOTE=yoyopogo104]besides...u think theyd really listen to us?[/QUOTE]

They would listen to us if there were enough people (several thousand). (We could also flood the project manager's e-mail...hehe

)