out of curiostiy...whats so great bout the DS?

Darth_Juro · Post by **Darth_Juro** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:56 pm

Although most of you are correct about Darkside being morally wrong in games like this Lightside is generally boring.....letting people walk all over you, Letting people diss you without any form of punishment, Arresting not Killing people(I.E Revan turned to the darkside and attacked the Jedi and instead of being killed for crimes against the Jedi they mind wipe him/her) Darkside is more fun in my opinion as you can basically do whatever you want be it murder,steal,assault etc....or what have you. I mean yeah sure I'd probably not act that way in real life but I mean come on seriously if you had the power to change the universe would you not use it?

x_ray619 · Post by **x_ray619** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:03 pm

Darth Juro

Damn straight Darth Juro, you tell 'em hahahaha.

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:19 pm

Let's remember not to spam this thread up.

Hill-Shatar: It's against the Jedi code to love (Anakin and Padme) so they cant reproduce. (even know it happens alot in the novels )

Well, they are not even supposed to reporduce either, but it does not take love to reproduce. No matter how much they think that it true in the novels. I do believe that the act of conception and the act of showing love is what is against the code.

So, I do believe that the DS can reproduce, but I don't think that really changes anything in either of the previous games, as the actual mating process never took place.

However, in real life, that may be a pro for the DS, to be able to reproduce children with a higher likelyhood, perhaps, of being a force adept?

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:31 am

[QUOTE=marten0305]...Hill-Shatar: It's against the Jedi code to love (Anakin and Padme) so they cant reproduce. (even know it happens alot in the novels

)...[/QUOTE]
That is not exactly true. When Padme asked Anakin about that he specifically said that marriage and attachement is forbiden not love [scene at a passenger ship in AotC]. So Jedi can love (they can even reproduce) but they are forbiden to form families.

x_ray619 · Post by **x_ray619** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:04 pm

To Ripe

No that is not true. They aren't even aloud to love, for reason like what Anakin did in Star Wars III. He turned against the light side and killed all these ppl, includin Mace Windu, just so he could save Padme because he LOVED her, and she still ended up dying anyway. Thats how the whole Vader thing started in the first place. Was because of love.

marten0305 · Post by **marten0305** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:36 am

Darth Juro: In my opinion it's the dificulty of the game that makes it interesting and if the player chooses to play LS it's much more complicated to play then DS because the DS can do what they want and the LS follow a certain way of doing things so LS have to watch what they do. ("much more complicated")

Hill-Shatar: Well i don't ever hear that it is against the Sith code to love but i know it's against the Jedi code to love.

Ripe: Anakin would have been disbanded from the Jedi Order if they found out about him and Padme thats why they had to hide their love. Jedi are not suppose to love. He explains passion and love like that are aloud but to love another person is forbidden

x ray619: that is true that is one of the reasons why he turned the others where he didn't feel the Jedi were giving him the credit he deserved, he couldn't save his mom, and the death of (forgive me if i spell it wrong) Qui Gon Jin.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:47 pm

Marten and X_ray, I don't have my copy of AotC at hand at the moment so I can't put exact quote [I'll put it when I get it back], but when Padme comment on Jedi being forbiden to love while traveling to Naboo during AotC Anakin state that it's not love that is forbiden but relationship, commitment and attachment to one another.

And Anakin and Padme did not have to hide their love and feelings for one another [Obi-Wan clearly knew about them, I belive Yoda also knew] - they had to hide the fact that they were married, that they live together and that he's father of Padme's child [I don't think she could hide the fact that she's 7-8 months pregnant being one of the more important senators].

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:29 pm

x_ray619 wrote:No that is not true. They aren't even aloud to love, for reason like what Anakin did in Star Wars III. He turned against the light side and killed all these ppl, includin Mace Windu, just so he could save Padme because he LOVED her, and she still ended up dying anyway. Thats how the whole Vader thing started in the first place. Was because of love.

No. He killed Mace and did everything he did during Episode III because of FEAR. Becase he was afraid of loosing Padme. Anakin did not fell because of love, he fell because of fear. And because he could not accept Jedi code [There is no death, there is the Force] which is another matter. That fear which Yoda and other Masters felt in him is reason why they refuse to train him in the first place during Episode I (because he was afraid for his mother).
To quote Master Yoda:

Fear is the path to the Dark side,
fear leads to anger,
anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering.

And we saw Anakin passing through all those stages in Episode III:
Fear - he was afraid to loose Padme
Anger - he was angry at himself for not finding a way to save her, at Jedi for "stoping" him from becaming Jedi he was suposed to be, etc.
Hate - he hated Obi-Wan because he believed Obi-Wan turned Padme against him, and he hated Padme because he think she betrayed him
Suffering - he suffered when he found out he killed Padme

And we saw it even during Episode II:
Fear - he was afraid for his mother
Anger - he was angry at himself for not following his instincs sooner
Hate - he hated Tuskens because they tortured and killed his mother
Suffering - he suffered because he could not save his mother

Love is dangerous to Jedi only because it may lead to anger, doubt, jelousy and fear [which it did in case of Anakin].

x_ray619 · Post by **x_ray619** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:13 pm

Love

Look you even sed it your self that love led to all that.

Darth_Juro · Post by **Darth_Juro** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:57 pm

Your wrong about Vadar falling because of Fear only....He indeed fell because of Love....his love for his mother made him afraid for her...his love for Padme made him choose to save Palpatine....what causes fear for another person? Love....if you love someone and they are about to be hurt you fear for them....but if you don't know a person and you see them get hurt your only worried about them....Love is what causes Fear.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:07 pm

[QUOTE=x_ray619]Look you even sed it your self that love led to all that.[/QUOTE]
No I said that love MAY lead to all that.

[QUOTE=Darth_Juro]Your wrong about Vadar falling because of Fear only....He indeed fell because of Love....his love for his mother made him afraid for her...his love for Padme made him choose to save Palpatine....what causes fear for another person? Love....if you love someone and they are about to be hurt you fear for them....but if you don't know a person and you see them get hurt your only worried about them....Love is what causes Fear.[/QUOTE]
Actually what really made Anakin fell is not love, fear or anything else. It's him not beliving in, and not following Jedi Code. Specifically that "There is no death, there is only the Force" part, but he also failed other parts of it. Had he accepted and believed in Jedi Code then he would probably accepted the fact that both his mother and Padme had to die eventually and that nothing he can do can change it. The fact that they died prematurelly is sad, but it's natural part of circle of life.

It may not be easy to accept that, but that is what Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan and most other Jedi would do.

Obi-Wan loved Anakin like a brother and he still accepted his duty and went to Mustafar to kill him - and he did kill him, or to put it more correctly, he thought he did, he just underestimated the amount of hate Anakin felt, a hate that sustained him (through the Dark side) long enough for Emperor to find him.

So love by itself is not a problem. Love and failure to live in tune with a Jedi code is a problem because than love can very easy lead to fear, anger, doubt and jelousy.

marten0305 · Post by **marten0305** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:52 pm

ok i think we've gone off topic long enough but i cant think of anything to say about the topic so someone get back to the topic so i can argue or agree in some cases

Quinlan · Post by **Quinlan** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:07 am

the important thing in games like these is the power to take a choice. dark or light, it dosen't matter. if the player has the power to choose his own fate, then the game rises to a new level.

I personally like lightside cuz it makes the game more interesting and reduces the linearity of the storyline. if u go dark u just kill everyone along the way

i got to add that it makes the story more boring if u were a dark jedi and then still remain dark... it just dosen't fit with my vision of a cool storyline

Orfinn · Post by **Orfinn** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:04 am

Im playing good chars depending on my mood.Once i used force storm for the first time that really gave me a laugh when i took Onderon as my last, and killed every fraking mob around me (those in white coats)in one single strike.

One thing i miss is a nutral way to finish the game, as a grey/uber jedi with a nutral ending. Its hard to be on such a narrow path but would be challenging and fun i guess.

marten0305 · Post by **marten0305** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:51 am

I'm not disagreeing with anyone this time.

Quinlan: Personally i like neutral because i can do DS with out killing anyone or LS with "killing everyone along the way". I'm the kinda player that likes do do what i want when i feel like it. To be more specific there are times where i feel like killing my crew (or anybody else) and then there are times where i dont get it.

Orfinn: I think the neutral ending should not return because what would happen, who would win, would the war continue? if so then when does the war finish. Thats why a neutral ending is a bad idea.

yoyopogo104 · Post by **yoyopogo104** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:35 am

*caution: spoilers!*

I think it's possible to be neutral whether helping out the bad guys or the good guys. We just need more choices as to what we are allowed to do. For example, in KOTOR II on Telos it's so obvious that helping the Ithorians is a good thing and helping Czerka is bad. However, what if we were allowed to help the Ithorians but tell them that we did it for the restoration effort, not them, and choose not to help them when they get attacked? That should level out as neutral. With Czerka it'd probably stay the same. Even though we did evil things to help them out, we did not have to support Luxa or the exchange.

As for ending the game as neutral, all we need is more dialouge choice. Using KOTOR II as an example again, choosing not to kill Atris but leaving her to her own fate could have been considered a neutral act. Also, if we were given the choice not to destroy Malachor V but not claiming the mantle of Sith Lord, this could have been considered neutral as well. As I said before, all it would take to make neutral gameplay happen is more dialouge choice.

marten0305 · Post by **marten0305** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:54 pm

First letting Atris live would be considered "the way of the jedi" which means LS and killing her would be DS so how could you wiggle in neutral there?

And what would happen if the player left malachore without destruction and without claiming the throne? (I don't know about you but that also seems like a LS move)

yoyopogo104 · Post by **yoyopogo104** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:33 pm

So, what you're saying is that killing Atris is DS, and letting her live is LS and that's that? The game doesn't have to be as black-and-white as it is. We have to have a reason for killing/not killing Atris. If you kill her just because you can, I'd say that's definately DS. But if you kill her because you feel she is a threat, that could be considered neutral. And then letting her live so that she may return to the light is, well, LS for sure. All I'm saying is that they should consider these things if they make a KOTOR III so that people who'd like to stay neutral can.

Leaving Malachor as is too me seems neutral, but I guess it all depends...

Strauss · Post by **Strauss** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:55 pm

I can see why someone would go for Dark Side for the credits. A great way to get fast credits in KOTOR (1) would be to buy up loads of medpacs, then go to Manaan and poision the kolto, raising the price on (quess what) medpacs so you could sell them, making a tidy profit.

I don't find the "Force Powers" on neither side appealing, it's alot more fun to go melee combat and decapitate-away the enemy. Althought can you have some fun times with "Kill" (strangulate, hm?) on persons who annoy you - now when i think about it i mostly don't use force powers because i like to have my character wield heavy armor (nothing like some heavy armor, dualwielded vibroblades and a room full with enemies).

Staying on topic: I enjoy playing Dark Side because you are allowed to humiliate, kill and torture your enemies (your enemies: everyone who doesn't agree with or annoys you), it makes the hair rise on my body of comfort (my first language ain't english so it's hard to describe). I really can't see what people get out of playing Lightside, you have to play nice and are restricted to what to do... but then again i quess some people enjoy to play light side, so they are just doing what they like to do.

Also the apathy (that seems to have infested the light-side-nest) part is annoying.

Fierce · Post by **Fierce** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:36 am

Well, I admit I never played Dark Side, I mean never. Not in the first part, nor in the second. Why? Why I don't enjoy torturing innocent, killing someone just for crossing my path? It's quite simple. It is so, because this kind of games reflect our inner selves, and in real life I would never do so, although sometimes I feel like killing and making suffer evryone around me. Not that I think I'm perfect or something, but if I make that little bunch of pixel's on my monitor suffer, and I had choice not to, then I feel guilty. It doesn't matter if what I just did is not real, the choice I made is. At most times, when I play game's like GTA I don't feel guilty when I "accidently" kill some people with a rubber penis or a chainsaw, but this is because that's what this game is all about. I even enjoy what I do to them, but this is the only way to get fun out of such a game. When it comes to reflecting life, like in KotOR, when you are faced with choices you may actually be given in real life (help someone in need, or tell that person to go to hell) I will alway's try to do what I think is best for other's. Call me a weak and pathetic, but I see it no other way. Or maybe I'm just childish, trying to undo all the evil in the world, or maybe it's because I feel guilty of thing's I did in my real life, and now I want to make myself feel better. I don't know. The only thing I know, is that Dark Side is not for me.