one thing kotor3 does NOT need

lonewolf13 · Post by **lonewolf13** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:09 pm

As I've said in previous posts, I love Star Wars, but I have one gripe with a trend that that is going through the Star Wars games. I first saw it in Dark Forces II Jedi Knight. Kotor II took it to the extreme.
I'm talking about the "instant Jedi"
Give me a break already. It was kind of cool, playing as a young Jedi or Sith learning the force, or as a Master teaching the ways of the Jedi or Sith to another, but at some point you have to stop and wonder how all these people are mastering the force so quickly and easily.
I'd love to see a master and padawan duo in Kotor 3, but no more, "Do you want to be a Jedi?"
"Yes"
"Hocus Pocus. Your a Jedi. What about you?"
"I want to be a Jedi too!"
"Abracadabra, your a Jedi."
"What about me?"
"Why not? Alakazaam your.... oops your a Sith...oh well just don't kill anyone I don't tell you to."

Whisp · Post by **Whisp** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:39 am

agreed, i think kotor 3 should be the story of both the exile and revan, it would be set before and during the mandalorian wars, either there should be two story modes or 1 but switching back and forth between between revan and the exile, and learn of how they first became jedi. i reckon that the story where the exile follows revan into the unknown should be writtin into a book or something.

Quinlan · Post by **Quinlan** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:14 pm

that's why i trained just one jedi in kotor II. i don't like that sort of stuff either, but the game explains it through the "special" influence exile has on the party. it wold have been cooler if u had to choose only one padawan and then have some special training dialogues for him... some misions... stuff like that. but then u wold probably play more with the padawan and ignore the other characters... that's why obsidian left the choice up to u... i think...

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:47 pm

i don't think they need to go any further with the story of the exile, just leave it up to people's imaginations because at the end of kotor2 you are told you can follow revan, go back into an exile or pretty much do what you like so the exile didn't necessarily go into the unknown regions. also, if the exile story continues, the character would be a really high level which is pointless really. i agree, going back to when revan and malak went to the wars and have a story about what it was that turned them to the dark side would be better as this could still explain what they found in unknown space that turned them originally before they went in search for the star forge.

as for the jedi, the first time through i didn't realise you could train them so i missed it and second time i have trained them all and i agree, its a bit easy. i've decided that next time i'll play i'll just take on one of them as a sith apprentice as this would be a bit more believable. in kotor3 they should just allow you to train one, and maybe let you choose out of a few people which you want to take on as a padawan/apprentice. and let the training take the whole game, so at certain levels/points in the game you could train them a bit more and increase their force points/which powers are available to choose when leveling up etc.

KyLewin · Post by **KyLewin** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:36 pm

I don't know if they can avoid it in Kotor III. Assuming the story revolves around the events of the previous two games, your character will have to already be a Jedi or be able to become one quickly.

I do agree that it's rather stupid. Kotor I had a good reason behind your speedy advancement. Kotor II's reasoning was iffy to me, at least as far as your party members were concerned, since you were already a Jedi it wasn't too big of a deal for you to relearn your skills. What I would like, is for them to do whatever they're going to do with Kotor III, completely wrapping up the story so there aren't any real lingering questions, and then move to a different period in time (they've got 4,000 years before the movies, I think they ought to be able to fit another story or two in there somewhere).

Once the whole Revan-thing is covered, they could do what you're saying and have a slowly building Jedi... perhaps even one that (gasp) isn't (or doesn't turn into) the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy! Maybe a game were you get to train a Padawan and try to steer him or her away from the darkside.

I thought Jedi Academy was going to have something like that, but according to that game, you learn to be a Jedi by running from planet to planet, basically alone, with your already made lightsaber, saving the galaxy... hmm, makes sense...

marten0305 · Post by **marten0305** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:08 pm

I do really hate the multiple padawans going through they're training like they had always known how to use.

Now i'd like to play as a jedi yraining a padawan and it stays that way throughout the game and only at the end of the game the padawans training is complete. And i'd like to choose a padawan.

Or if you guys and gals don't like that idea i got another one.

The player is the padawan throughout the game with a master of course and at the end his training is finished. That way he/she is not the most powerful jedi in the galaxie, he/she is just a normal jedi knight.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:13 pm

actually, i quite like that idea. having a master throughout the game that is guiding you and mentoring you and not being the 'superman' of the jedi world like in kotor1 and 2 lol. only problem is, how do you factor in the ls and ds choices if you have a lightside master? surely they would do something if you slipped to the ds while they were mentoring you.

marten0305 · Post by **marten0305** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:25 pm

Personally i'd like to be master but i'd like to have a master. (they'd all be playable of course)

But i was kind of thinking some how the padawan convinces the master to turn or something like that.

KyLewin · Post by **KyLewin** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:03 am

[QUOTE=marten0305]Personally i'd like to be master but i'd like to have a master. (they'd all be playable of course)

But i was kind of thinking some how the padawan convinces the master to turn or something like that.[/QUOTE]

If you are the padawan and decide to go darkside, you could always try to kill your master (that seems to be the way it goes in these things Anakin vs. Obi-Wan, Jolee vs. his wife...). Until that time, which I assume would be towards the end, your master would play the roll that Jolee, Juhani, and mostly Bastila play in the first Kotor, mainly griping about you acting evil all the time.
Whether your character is a Padawan or a Master or gets to be both (half the game as a Padawan, then becomes either a Sith instructor or a Jedi Knight with a pupil of his/her own), it would be a pretty cool idea so long as they finish up the currect story arc first.

Whisp · Post by **Whisp** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:52 am

[QUOTE=marten0305]I do really hate the multiple padawans going through they're training like they had always known how to use.[/QUOTE]

i guess,... i played through kotor2 three times, first time i trained bao dur as a padawan ( not knowing u could train them it came to be a bit of a shock to me and stuck with only one) second time thru i was a sith, ( it was really hard as you all know, anyways didn't train any1) now third time thru played as a totaly light character, this is were the quote comes in, this time i trained atton and to me he had a bad ass reason to be force sensitive, he used to kill jedi with sith and in order to do that he had to control his emotions block out the jedi from his mind..... whatever you all know the story, anyways i think he had a really legit reason for being FS, if he was the only one you could train that wouldve made it alot better.

marten0305 · Post by **marten0305** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:16 am

It woulda definitly made the game better if he were the only character the player can train.

And i'd still prefer to be padawan throughout the game, and only at the end of the game i become a jedi knight.

Suicide Girl · Post by **Suicide Girl** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:33 am

On that note, personally I think Atton and Mira were the only characters whose Force-Sensitivity came off as pretty believable and logical. Disciple (or Mical, whichever you prefer) is arguable, since he had his chance to be a padawan, but then again, the reason he didn't become a Jedi wasn't because he wasn't promising enough, but because there was no one to train him.

I might be going astray here.

And regarding the 'most powerful Jedi in the galaxy' Superman thing... It's the way videogames are supposed to work; it all comes down to basic ego-indulging psychology. When you enter the virtual reality of a videogame, do you really want to play the role of a character that's regular, normal, not very special in any possible way? I don't really feel like rambling away as usual here, but what I'm trying to point out is - in videogames, the character we play is supposed to be someone larger than life; the kind of person that will successfully play out the role of hero and saviour of all known life and whatnot. It's supposed to make us feel special, strong, powerful, important; so that we would come back to the game again and again, play it out to the end and be all starry-eyed at the prospect of being a superhero who single-handedly saved an entire universe from seemingly irrevocable destruction.

I'm sorry if you disagree. At some levels, so do I, but basically that's the way most books, movies, videogames, etc. are supposed to work. Ach, don't ask me... I'm just rambling away here.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:50 am

i didn't mean the superman thing like that. what i meant, is rather than play someone already special like the exile or revan, play an ordinary jedi who then becomes special rather than already being special before the game starts. if you start as a padawan and train up, you can still become saviour of the galaxy and end up as something really special, but you are kind of building up to that destiny from being something ordinary.

FighterTundra · Post by **FighterTundra** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:15 am

i think the 'grow up as unknown young padawan' idea is a very good idea. i think it will be even better than kotor 1 and 2, starting as a known, grown up man/woman. what i hated the most about kotor 1 and 2, that your PC (revan-exile) once where evil, not with the council. i would like if the 'grow up as unknown young padawan' idea doesn't come in the game, than let just be you PC be a follower of the jedi council.

lonewolf13 · Post by **lonewolf13** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:37 pm

[QUOTE=FighterTundra]what i hated the most about kotor 1 and 2, that your PC (revan-exile) once where evil, not with the council.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call the Exile evil, he/she acted against the will of the Jedi council and did some nasty things, but unlike Revan or Malak, didn't turn to the dark side. Unless you choose for him/her to that is.
I also tend to disagree with those who say the Exile was a Superman type jedi like Revan was. He/she was unique, much like Bastilla, the Exile's "super jedi" power was his/her ability to lead and influence others. "Revan was power" as Kreia put it. An all around "super jedi".

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:48 pm

again, slight misunderstanding with the exile as being a 'superman' type jedi. the exile was a general in the war, and had done some pretty big stuff that had a huge impact on the galaxy and the jedi. superman prob wasn't the right example to use lol. the point i was making is that both revan and the exile had already done some major stuff and had a big impact on the galaxy, the jedi council etc. before we took control of them. i'd like to see a character with nothing special in their history to start with and then build them up into something special, and go on to have a major impact on the star wars galaxy and the jedi etc.

lonewolf13 · Post by **lonewolf13** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:15 am

I wasn't trying to single you out mr sir. I've read other, "superman jedi" references as well as yours in other threads. I posted it here more or less as a footnote to what I was saying about the Exile's past.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:20 am

i didn't think you were singling me out, i just wanted to explain what i meant by playing an 'ordinary' jedi as i didn't do a very good job earlier lol

marten0305 · Post by **marten0305** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:15 pm

One thing kotor 3 doesn't need is another super jedi, start out with no special history and end it with nothing special just another jedi recognized for helping out the war. Or a hero of the war but not an allpowerful jedi, just an "ordinary jedi".

And so many poeple don't start arguing in the kotor 4 forums, something happens to him in the end which leaves him deformed or even dead. Deformed so he/she has to wear a suit in the next one, or he risked his/her life for his/her cause (DS/LS) and is considered a hero of the war.

lonewolf13 · Post by **lonewolf13** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:07 pm

[QUOTE=marten0305]One thing kotor 3 doesn't need is another super jedi, start out with no special history and end it with nothing special just another jedi recognized for helping out the war. Or a hero of the war but not an allpowerful jedi, just an "ordinary jedi".[/QUOTE]
No offence, but that sounds kind of boring. I think I understand what your saying, but the story would be, at best, an epilog to the Kotor series. You can't tell an epic story without an epic charater or characters, doing something epic. If you try to follow up a story about an amazing character doing something incredible with an average character doing something any similiar character could have done, it won't be well recieved.

Also, as I said above, the Exile wasn't a "super jedi", he/she had a unique ability.