yuzhong vong in kotor 3?
-
FighterTundra
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:36 am
- Location: Beneath a bag of meat
- Contact:
-
marten0305
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:58 pm
- Contact:
I don't have alot of time so i din't read up but personally i would not bring the vong in until next or future kotor games (if kotor has a future).
And i did see something interesting, "better to be suprised than disappointed" never thought of it like that, probably good point of veiw but i don't think i could think like that after all this.
And i did see something interesting, "better to be suprised than disappointed" never thought of it like that, probably good point of veiw but i don't think i could think like that after all this.
It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you.
-
dying2live515
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:05 pm
- Contact:
Am I the only one that noticed this? But in Kotor II, the way Hanharr pronounced Jedi as "Jeedai" is the same way the Yuuzhan Vong pronounce it. I never got to the point where Hanharr would tell you why, but is this just a coincidence or is there some connection?
And that, my friends, is why you do not anger a Wookiee.
Although I think it's more an coinsidence than some sort of connection, it is an interesting observation you made. Maybe something more will come out of it?
In the mist by the hills the day darkens
In this forest death rules
Over this chasm riders of doom and face him with a deadly pale
Spectre face
Grim as stone, ride to the deathfields... Blackness and doom
A total eclipse of the sun
Die by the northern triology in the mist by the hills
In this forest death rules
Over this chasm riders of doom and face him with a deadly pale
Spectre face
Grim as stone, ride to the deathfields... Blackness and doom
A total eclipse of the sun
Die by the northern triology in the mist by the hills
-
ch85us2001
- Posts: 8748
- Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:53 pm
- Location: My mind dwells elsewhere . . .
[QUOTE=dying2live515]Am I the only one that noticed this? But in Kotor II, the way Hanharr pronounced Jedi as "Jeedai" is the same way the Yuuzhan Vong pronounce it. I never got to the point where Hanharr would tell you why, but is this just a coincidence or is there some connection?[/QUOTE]
I figured it was just alien pronounciation. I never knew you could unlock it.
Never done much DS though, either. So that could be it.
I figured it was just alien pronounciation. I never knew you could unlock it.
Never done much DS though, either. So that could be it.
[url=tamriel-rebuilt.org]Tamriel Rebuilt and,[/url] [url="http://z13.invisionfree.com/Chus_Mod_Forum/index.php?"]My Mod Fansite[/url]
I am the Lord of Programming, and your Mother Board, and your RAR Unpacker, and Your Runtime Engine, can tell you all about it
I am the Lord of Programming, and your Mother Board, and your RAR Unpacker, and Your Runtime Engine, can tell you all about it
-
dying2live515
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:05 pm
- Contact:
-
marten0305
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:58 pm
- Contact:
[QUOTE=dying2live515]Am I the only one that noticed this? But in Kotor II, the way Hanharr pronounced Jedi as "Jeedai" is the same way the Yuuzhan Vong pronounce it. I never got to the point where Hanharr would tell you why, but is this just a coincidence or is there some connection?[/QUOTE]
I don't think there is any connection and i think it is only coincidence, but if there was a connection i doubt that it will big a big topic in the game.
I don't think there is any connection and i think it is only coincidence, but if there was a connection i doubt that it will big a big topic in the game.
It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you.
-
Chimaera182
- Posts: 2723
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:00 am
- Contact:
Bear with me; I've not been paying attention to this forum for months, and I'm tackling a lot of posts in this thread in one go.
[QUOTE=kell]You can find the yuuzhan vong in any of the star wars novels in the "NEW JEDI ORDER" series. I highly suggest reading them in order though as it is an absolutely huge plotline running through the books. Without a doubt the best sci-fi series I have ever read.
The books are as follows (in order)
[snip]
There have been 2 or 3 novels published since then but I have not read them yet so I don't know if the yuuzhan vong are in them.
The yuuzhan vong have also been featured in some of the star wars comic books. I have never read any of the young jedi knights or the x-wing series, so I don't know if there are any in those series.[/QUOTE]
I hated Vector Prime with such a passion, and not for why you would think so; so many people were pissed when someone was killed in it, but frankly, I thought it was the best part of the book (spoiler: nothing like killing a main character in a story to spice things up; it's better than every main character being invincible all the time like they always seem to be). The Rebel Dawn and its sequel were stupid. I had to skip over every part dealing with the Jedi in those two because it was so completely ludicrous I couldn't stand it. The parts with Wedge fighting Lah's father was good, though. Star by Star was my favorite for a while; I read through it in a day, which is hard to do when it's 600 pages and you have a life. Traitor's my favorite; Vergere just became my favorite character in the storyline until they made her a Jedi. And she reminds me a bit of Kreia in her thinking.
The Yuuzhan Vong feature prominently in the NJO series; they're not in the X-Wing or Young Jedi Knight series.
[QUOTE=ch85us2001]I disagree. The only thing that didnt add up in the whole SW saga is when Mara Jade says the Emporer cut off Anakins hand. Other than that it seems, well, seamless. Then again, I dont read EVERY SW book either so . . .[/QUOTE]
Mara didn't say the Emperor cut off his hand; she said he lost it (it's my favorite trilogy, I've read it like 20 times, I know what I'm talking about). It may have been implied that Palpatine cut off his hand, but he might not've. Besides, Lucas doesn't care if his vision of Star Wars clashes with the EU.
[QUOTE=lonewolf13]
Let me give two examples from the movies that don't add up.
1. In New Hope Obi-Wan shows no sign of recognizing R2-D2 or C-3PO.
2. Here's a biggie. Padmaie dies right after Luke and Leia's birth in Revenge of The Sith. In Return of the Jedi, Luke asks Leia what she remembers about her REAL mother. Leia replies not much, but that she remembered her as being sad.[/QUOTE]
One protocol droid looks like any other, really, and the astromechs do, too. The only thing that may distinguish them is their color. I don't think it was something as simple as Obi-Wan just pretending to be innocent as was mentioned in a later post.
Padme's death was just stupid, to me, but so was a lot of RotS. Lucas could've worked it so the audience believes Anakin dies and Vader takes his place at Palpatine's side, rather than telling the audience. Yes, those of us who saw the original trilogy knows what happens, but now anyone else who's never seen Star Wars will see the first three, see what happens to Anakin, and the classic jaw-dropping moment in ESB is just ruined. Anyway, as was also mentioned before, it's possible Leia just remembered the sensation of her mother through the Force; remember, she said she remembered images and "feelings." She didn't have to remember her biological mother; then again, maybe her first adoptive mother died early in her childhood, and she just assumed that it was her real mother.
[QUOTE=KyLewin]Okay, a few things about the Yuuzhan Vong. First off, it's not that they don't exist within the Force, it's that they don't exist in the normal way within the Force as the Jedi know it. Anakin Solo in one of the later books discovers that he can sense them by looking for them on a different "branch" of the Force (assuming that the Force as it is known is one branch of a greater tree). He has to use some sort of crystal of theirs to let him see the branch... if I recall correctly, he gets a hold of the crystal to fix his lightsaber and a little later discovers the other use for it.
Secondly, they don't actually originate outside of the Starwars galaxy, they simply left for several thousand years. Their homeworld is the living planet Zonama Sekot, which is somehow capable not only of speaking with visitors (such as the Jedi who find it in the New Jedi Order series) but also of travelling through hyperspace (with unpleasant effects on the ecosystem of the planet). The planet actually was visited by Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi before the Clone Wars and Anakin's fall to the darkside. Because it is capable of moving around, the planet is not well known, but there are some who know about it even after the Empire.
As far as people not knowning about the Vong before their invasion of the New Republic, that also is not exactly true. Most people didn't know about them, but a species living in the Unknown Region, the Chiss (Grand Admiral Thrawn is one of them, for those who've read the Thrawn Trilogy), were well aware of the threat and were actively working to keep the Vong from invading even before the rise of the New Republic.
If Kotor III were to take place away from the Core Worlds, and involve a war between nonRepublic forces and the Vong, it would certainly be possible to work it into canon. The only problem I see, doesn't involve the Republic, it involves the Vong themselves. In the NJO, they seemed to have only recently rediscovered the galaxy and actually thought it was a new one (sort of like Planet of the Apes, they left, they came back, they thought it was new), so I'm not completely sure how they would just "forget" for a few thousand years... maybe the Jedi Council could give them a mind wipe.
On the other hand, and I can't remember this exactly, I believe they were forced to leave their homeworld and even their home galaxy. If the battle in Kotor III was actually the one that made them leave in the first place, well, I suppose that could work.
Personally, I doubt that the Vong will have anything to do with the next game. Canderous mentions them in passing, sort of a little nod to the book series (which was still running at the time), nothing more. If we're lucky we'll see 'true' Sith (whatever that means) in the next game and they'll be just as scary looking as the Vong.[/QUOTE]
That's what it looked like they were angling for in the storyline, but later they just made it that the YV were cut off from the Force, not simply in another branch of it.
The NJO series implies that the YV do originate from another galaxy. Their homeworld is not Zenoma Sekot; Zenoma Sekot is actually spawned from the seed of the YV homeworld, which was destroyed when it repelled the YZ from their home galaxy (for their destructive war on the sentients of their galaxy), or however that went. It's explained in one of the later books in NJO that the seed of the YV homeworld was caught in a current between the galaxies, made it to the SW galaxy, and became Zenoma Sekot; the YV just happened to follow that same current and find the SW galaxy, too. I always figured the series would end with us realizing that the Vong really were from the SW universe, that they were just repelled and managed to find their way back. But that's not really what they imply in the series.
The Chiss weren't really preparing for a war with the Yuuzhan Vong. The Chiss are not as aware of events outside their own corner of the galaxy as they could be; it was Thrawn who was preparing for war and created the defense forces scattered throughout unexplored space, along with sleeper cells of clones throughout the Republic and Empire. But they never say it's the Vong, either; it's just several threats in the wilds of space. It's possible the Vong were one of them, but I doubt it.
Things change in 4000 years. Many planets are destroyed, they certainly move around a lot, and planets and starcharts change over time. It's possible they wouldn't recognize their old galaxy, if the SW galaxy really was their old one. As for whether the Vong will--or even should--be in KotOR III, I say no to both. Canderous' story could be interpreted as an encounter with a Yuuzhan Vong craft, but it's possible it was just something else that had a similar description.
[QUOTE=dying2live515]Am I the only one that noticed this? But in Kotor II, the way Hanharr pronounced Jedi as "Jeedai" is the same way the Yuuzhan Vong pronounce it. I never got to the point where Hanharr would tell you why, but is this just a coincidence or is there some connection?[/QUOTE]
I noticed it, too. It's just a coincidence. I think the programmers were just being stupid; the Wookies don't have a word for Jedi any more than they do for Jeedai. The Vong pronounced it Jeedai when speaking Galactic Basic, which the Wookies can not. And Hanharr doesn't ever explain why he called them Jeedai.
[QUOTE=kell]You can find the yuuzhan vong in any of the star wars novels in the "NEW JEDI ORDER" series. I highly suggest reading them in order though as it is an absolutely huge plotline running through the books. Without a doubt the best sci-fi series I have ever read.
The books are as follows (in order)
[snip]
There have been 2 or 3 novels published since then but I have not read them yet so I don't know if the yuuzhan vong are in them.
The yuuzhan vong have also been featured in some of the star wars comic books. I have never read any of the young jedi knights or the x-wing series, so I don't know if there are any in those series.[/QUOTE]
I hated Vector Prime with such a passion, and not for why you would think so; so many people were pissed when someone was killed in it, but frankly, I thought it was the best part of the book (spoiler: nothing like killing a main character in a story to spice things up; it's better than every main character being invincible all the time like they always seem to be). The Rebel Dawn and its sequel were stupid. I had to skip over every part dealing with the Jedi in those two because it was so completely ludicrous I couldn't stand it. The parts with Wedge fighting Lah's father was good, though. Star by Star was my favorite for a while; I read through it in a day, which is hard to do when it's 600 pages and you have a life. Traitor's my favorite; Vergere just became my favorite character in the storyline until they made her a Jedi. And she reminds me a bit of Kreia in her thinking.
The Yuuzhan Vong feature prominently in the NJO series; they're not in the X-Wing or Young Jedi Knight series.
[QUOTE=ch85us2001]I disagree. The only thing that didnt add up in the whole SW saga is when Mara Jade says the Emporer cut off Anakins hand. Other than that it seems, well, seamless. Then again, I dont read EVERY SW book either so . . .[/QUOTE]
Mara didn't say the Emperor cut off his hand; she said he lost it (it's my favorite trilogy, I've read it like 20 times, I know what I'm talking about). It may have been implied that Palpatine cut off his hand, but he might not've. Besides, Lucas doesn't care if his vision of Star Wars clashes with the EU.
[QUOTE=lonewolf13]
Let me give two examples from the movies that don't add up.
1. In New Hope Obi-Wan shows no sign of recognizing R2-D2 or C-3PO.
2. Here's a biggie. Padmaie dies right after Luke and Leia's birth in Revenge of The Sith. In Return of the Jedi, Luke asks Leia what she remembers about her REAL mother. Leia replies not much, but that she remembered her as being sad.[/QUOTE]
One protocol droid looks like any other, really, and the astromechs do, too. The only thing that may distinguish them is their color. I don't think it was something as simple as Obi-Wan just pretending to be innocent as was mentioned in a later post.
Padme's death was just stupid, to me, but so was a lot of RotS. Lucas could've worked it so the audience believes Anakin dies and Vader takes his place at Palpatine's side, rather than telling the audience. Yes, those of us who saw the original trilogy knows what happens, but now anyone else who's never seen Star Wars will see the first three, see what happens to Anakin, and the classic jaw-dropping moment in ESB is just ruined. Anyway, as was also mentioned before, it's possible Leia just remembered the sensation of her mother through the Force; remember, she said she remembered images and "feelings." She didn't have to remember her biological mother; then again, maybe her first adoptive mother died early in her childhood, and she just assumed that it was her real mother.
[QUOTE=KyLewin]Okay, a few things about the Yuuzhan Vong. First off, it's not that they don't exist within the Force, it's that they don't exist in the normal way within the Force as the Jedi know it. Anakin Solo in one of the later books discovers that he can sense them by looking for them on a different "branch" of the Force (assuming that the Force as it is known is one branch of a greater tree). He has to use some sort of crystal of theirs to let him see the branch... if I recall correctly, he gets a hold of the crystal to fix his lightsaber and a little later discovers the other use for it.
Secondly, they don't actually originate outside of the Starwars galaxy, they simply left for several thousand years. Their homeworld is the living planet Zonama Sekot, which is somehow capable not only of speaking with visitors (such as the Jedi who find it in the New Jedi Order series) but also of travelling through hyperspace (with unpleasant effects on the ecosystem of the planet). The planet actually was visited by Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi before the Clone Wars and Anakin's fall to the darkside. Because it is capable of moving around, the planet is not well known, but there are some who know about it even after the Empire.
As far as people not knowning about the Vong before their invasion of the New Republic, that also is not exactly true. Most people didn't know about them, but a species living in the Unknown Region, the Chiss (Grand Admiral Thrawn is one of them, for those who've read the Thrawn Trilogy), were well aware of the threat and were actively working to keep the Vong from invading even before the rise of the New Republic.
If Kotor III were to take place away from the Core Worlds, and involve a war between nonRepublic forces and the Vong, it would certainly be possible to work it into canon. The only problem I see, doesn't involve the Republic, it involves the Vong themselves. In the NJO, they seemed to have only recently rediscovered the galaxy and actually thought it was a new one (sort of like Planet of the Apes, they left, they came back, they thought it was new), so I'm not completely sure how they would just "forget" for a few thousand years... maybe the Jedi Council could give them a mind wipe.
On the other hand, and I can't remember this exactly, I believe they were forced to leave their homeworld and even their home galaxy. If the battle in Kotor III was actually the one that made them leave in the first place, well, I suppose that could work.
Personally, I doubt that the Vong will have anything to do with the next game. Canderous mentions them in passing, sort of a little nod to the book series (which was still running at the time), nothing more. If we're lucky we'll see 'true' Sith (whatever that means) in the next game and they'll be just as scary looking as the Vong.[/QUOTE]
That's what it looked like they were angling for in the storyline, but later they just made it that the YV were cut off from the Force, not simply in another branch of it.
The NJO series implies that the YV do originate from another galaxy. Their homeworld is not Zenoma Sekot; Zenoma Sekot is actually spawned from the seed of the YV homeworld, which was destroyed when it repelled the YZ from their home galaxy (for their destructive war on the sentients of their galaxy), or however that went. It's explained in one of the later books in NJO that the seed of the YV homeworld was caught in a current between the galaxies, made it to the SW galaxy, and became Zenoma Sekot; the YV just happened to follow that same current and find the SW galaxy, too. I always figured the series would end with us realizing that the Vong really were from the SW universe, that they were just repelled and managed to find their way back. But that's not really what they imply in the series.
The Chiss weren't really preparing for a war with the Yuuzhan Vong. The Chiss are not as aware of events outside their own corner of the galaxy as they could be; it was Thrawn who was preparing for war and created the defense forces scattered throughout unexplored space, along with sleeper cells of clones throughout the Republic and Empire. But they never say it's the Vong, either; it's just several threats in the wilds of space. It's possible the Vong were one of them, but I doubt it.
Things change in 4000 years. Many planets are destroyed, they certainly move around a lot, and planets and starcharts change over time. It's possible they wouldn't recognize their old galaxy, if the SW galaxy really was their old one. As for whether the Vong will--or even should--be in KotOR III, I say no to both. Canderous' story could be interpreted as an encounter with a Yuuzhan Vong craft, but it's possible it was just something else that had a similar description.
[QUOTE=dying2live515]Am I the only one that noticed this? But in Kotor II, the way Hanharr pronounced Jedi as "Jeedai" is the same way the Yuuzhan Vong pronounce it. I never got to the point where Hanharr would tell you why, but is this just a coincidence or is there some connection?[/QUOTE]
I noticed it, too. It's just a coincidence. I think the programmers were just being stupid; the Wookies don't have a word for Jedi any more than they do for Jeedai. The Vong pronounced it Jeedai when speaking Galactic Basic, which the Wookies can not. And Hanharr doesn't ever explain why he called them Jeedai.
General: "Those aren't ideas; those are special effects."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
-
dying2live515
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:05 pm
- Contact:
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]I noticed it, too. It's just a coincidence. I think the programmers were just being stupid; the Wookies don't have a word for Jedi any more than they do for Jeedai. The Vong pronounced it Jeedai when speaking Galactic Basic, which the Wookies can not. And Hanharr doesn't ever explain why he called them Jeedai.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure he never explains it? Because I was playing my DS character yesterday, and after he said "Jeedai", it gives you the option of asking him why he pronounces it that way. But it always says "Influence: Failure".
Are you sure he never explains it? Because I was playing my DS character yesterday, and after he said "Jeedai", it gives you the option of asking him why he pronounces it that way. But it always says "Influence: Failure".
And that, my friends, is why you do not anger a Wookiee.
-
Chimaera182
- Posts: 2723
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:00 am
- Contact:
Reasonably sure, but not 100%. I've had Hanharr maybe once, and I went as far as I could with him, but i don't recall him ever explaining why he said "Jeedai." I prefer Mira over Hanharr, given that she can become a Jedi, so I always make sure I'm reasonably neutral when on Nar Shaddaa.
General: "Those aren't ideas; those are special effects."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
-
lonewolf13
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:03 pm
- Location: Western Kentucky
- Contact:
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]Reasonably sure, but not 100%. I've had Hanharr maybe once, and I went as far as I could with him, but i don't recall him ever explaining why he said "Jeedai." I prefer Mira over Hanharr, given that she can become a Jedi, so I always make sure I'm reasonably neutral when on Nar Shaddaa.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I remember him saying something about, "Jeedai" being how he first heard the name "Jedi" pronunced.
I wish I could be more specific, but I only played ds once and I've slept since then.
Actually, I remember him saying something about, "Jeedai" being how he first heard the name "Jedi" pronunced.
I wish I could be more specific, but I only played ds once and I've slept since then.
When all else fails, try brute force.
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]That's what it looked like they were angling for in the storyline, but later they just made it that the YV were cut off from the Force, not simply in another branch of it.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, I am forced then to ask why Anakin (and later Jacen, if memory serves) were able to sense the YV with their "vongsense"? If the YV are cut off from the Force, then they should be the same as droids in terms of being felt through the Force, basically invisible. As this is not the case, then it stands to reason that they are still connected in some way or another.
Actually, the Force makes very little sense in the entire NJO series. First it was the Force as it has always been known, then it became a branch of a great tree (or something like that according to Anakin Solo), then finally they (the writers) decided that there was no such thing as light or dark (never mind the many instances in which giving into dark intentions once has twisted an individual into a servant of evil) and the whole Jacen Solo leading the others to explore the Unified Force-thing happened. So near as I can tell, someone decided that it would be a good idea to inject a bit more New Age thinking (more than was already there to begin with) into the StarWars universe. Now we are left with a relativist Force in which anything and everything is permissable and there is no real right or wrong, only different view points (hm, I guess that does sound familiar). Ah, the joys of the postmodern Force...
Personally, I only bothered finishing the series becaused I'd invested so much time in it by the time I got to the point where I started getting annoyed that it seemed dumb not to complete it. With so many authors, the series was continuously losing track of, simply ignoring, or finding ways around everything and everyone that was vitally important in the previous book. Any technology or discovery that pushed the momentum in favor of the Republic (and thus the end of the war) was gone by the next book or had been quickly overcome by the species that was supposed to be so stuck in its ways that the inventing of new techniques was considered heresy. Whole characters seemed to vanish for several books only to reappear in vital roles once the author who had originally invented them was handed the reins again and then those characters would either die or disappear after that.
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]The NJO series implies that the YV do originate from another galaxy. Their homeworld is not Zenoma Sekot; Zenoma Sekot is actually spawned from the seed of the YV homeworld, which was destroyed when it repelled the YZ from their home galaxy (for their destructive war on the sentients of their galaxy), or however that went. It's explained in one of the later books in NJO that the seed of the YV homeworld was caught in a current between the galaxies, made it to the SW galaxy, and became Zenoma Sekot; the YV just happened to follow that same current and find the SW galaxy, too. I always figured the series would end with us realizing that the Vong really were from the SW universe, that they were just repelled and managed to find their way back. But that's not really what they imply in the series.[/QUOTE]
All I really remember from the whole Zenoma Sekot quest as it related to the Vong was that the Vong Scientist, whose name eludes me, discovered that the life forms on Zenoma Sekot had the same basic structure as the living technology that the vong used. If anyone (the planet, perhaps) ever said that it came from another galaxy, I missed it, but it's possible. I was a little tired of the series by that point, having read some 20 books to get there, and was just trying to get it over with, so I might have missed something like that. The YV were cool bad guys and the implications of an extragalactic threat was intresting, but the writers (or GL) let the story line drag on for far too long.
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]The Chiss weren't really preparing for a war with the Yuuzhan Vong. The Chiss are not as aware of events outside their own corner of the galaxy as they could be; it was Thrawn who was preparing for war and created the defense forces scattered throughout unexplored space, along with sleeper cells of clones throughout the Republic and Empire. But they never say it's the Vong, either; it's just several threats in the wilds of space. It's possible the Vong were one of them, but I doubt it.[/QUOTE]
Again, I can't recall anything that specifically confirms or argues against this statement. I do remember that in the book where Luke and Mara finally get together, they run into a group of Chiss that say something about being there to guard against some great threat that may be coming. My recollection is a bit fuzzy on this, so I might not even be thinking of the right book and it could be that this is only a Thrawn-created defense force, but my understand was that he and the Chiss had reconciled and that the base was created with their knowledge and support... perhaps I am mistaken.
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]Things change in 4000 years. Many planets are destroyed, they certainly move around a lot, and planets and starcharts change over time. It's possible they wouldn't recognize their old galaxy, if the SW galaxy really was their old one. As for whether the Vong will--or even should--be in KotOR III, I say no to both. Canderous' story could be interpreted as an encounter with a Yuuzhan Vong craft, but it's possible it was just something else that had a similar description.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure I've read that this was a sort of nod by Bioware to the ongoing (at the time) NJO series. I mean, a rocky growth spitting fire that can melt a ships armor, that flies faster than a regular ship, and is capable of extragalactic travel is pretty much an exact discription of the smallest YV ships... it seems to be stretching even StarWars' laws of probablity that two different species or whatever would both have ships matching that discription.
Anyway, I agree with you that the Vong will not and should not be featured in Kotor III. They're cool and all, but it makes no sense for them to already be attacking the galaxy so long before they arrive again in the books. Now, if there was something in the books about them attempting to invade and being turned back by some Jedis led by one named Revan and one called The Exile, well then there'd be a reason for their inclusion. As that is not the case (so far as I remember), then there's no reason for them to be featured.
Hmm, I am forced then to ask why Anakin (and later Jacen, if memory serves) were able to sense the YV with their "vongsense"? If the YV are cut off from the Force, then they should be the same as droids in terms of being felt through the Force, basically invisible. As this is not the case, then it stands to reason that they are still connected in some way or another.
Actually, the Force makes very little sense in the entire NJO series. First it was the Force as it has always been known, then it became a branch of a great tree (or something like that according to Anakin Solo), then finally they (the writers) decided that there was no such thing as light or dark (never mind the many instances in which giving into dark intentions once has twisted an individual into a servant of evil) and the whole Jacen Solo leading the others to explore the Unified Force-thing happened. So near as I can tell, someone decided that it would be a good idea to inject a bit more New Age thinking (more than was already there to begin with) into the StarWars universe. Now we are left with a relativist Force in which anything and everything is permissable and there is no real right or wrong, only different view points (hm, I guess that does sound familiar). Ah, the joys of the postmodern Force...
Personally, I only bothered finishing the series becaused I'd invested so much time in it by the time I got to the point where I started getting annoyed that it seemed dumb not to complete it. With so many authors, the series was continuously losing track of, simply ignoring, or finding ways around everything and everyone that was vitally important in the previous book. Any technology or discovery that pushed the momentum in favor of the Republic (and thus the end of the war) was gone by the next book or had been quickly overcome by the species that was supposed to be so stuck in its ways that the inventing of new techniques was considered heresy. Whole characters seemed to vanish for several books only to reappear in vital roles once the author who had originally invented them was handed the reins again and then those characters would either die or disappear after that.
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]The NJO series implies that the YV do originate from another galaxy. Their homeworld is not Zenoma Sekot; Zenoma Sekot is actually spawned from the seed of the YV homeworld, which was destroyed when it repelled the YZ from their home galaxy (for their destructive war on the sentients of their galaxy), or however that went. It's explained in one of the later books in NJO that the seed of the YV homeworld was caught in a current between the galaxies, made it to the SW galaxy, and became Zenoma Sekot; the YV just happened to follow that same current and find the SW galaxy, too. I always figured the series would end with us realizing that the Vong really were from the SW universe, that they were just repelled and managed to find their way back. But that's not really what they imply in the series.[/QUOTE]
All I really remember from the whole Zenoma Sekot quest as it related to the Vong was that the Vong Scientist, whose name eludes me, discovered that the life forms on Zenoma Sekot had the same basic structure as the living technology that the vong used. If anyone (the planet, perhaps) ever said that it came from another galaxy, I missed it, but it's possible. I was a little tired of the series by that point, having read some 20 books to get there, and was just trying to get it over with, so I might have missed something like that. The YV were cool bad guys and the implications of an extragalactic threat was intresting, but the writers (or GL) let the story line drag on for far too long.
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]The Chiss weren't really preparing for a war with the Yuuzhan Vong. The Chiss are not as aware of events outside their own corner of the galaxy as they could be; it was Thrawn who was preparing for war and created the defense forces scattered throughout unexplored space, along with sleeper cells of clones throughout the Republic and Empire. But they never say it's the Vong, either; it's just several threats in the wilds of space. It's possible the Vong were one of them, but I doubt it.[/QUOTE]
Again, I can't recall anything that specifically confirms or argues against this statement. I do remember that in the book where Luke and Mara finally get together, they run into a group of Chiss that say something about being there to guard against some great threat that may be coming. My recollection is a bit fuzzy on this, so I might not even be thinking of the right book and it could be that this is only a Thrawn-created defense force, but my understand was that he and the Chiss had reconciled and that the base was created with their knowledge and support... perhaps I am mistaken.
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]Things change in 4000 years. Many planets are destroyed, they certainly move around a lot, and planets and starcharts change over time. It's possible they wouldn't recognize their old galaxy, if the SW galaxy really was their old one. As for whether the Vong will--or even should--be in KotOR III, I say no to both. Canderous' story could be interpreted as an encounter with a Yuuzhan Vong craft, but it's possible it was just something else that had a similar description.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure I've read that this was a sort of nod by Bioware to the ongoing (at the time) NJO series. I mean, a rocky growth spitting fire that can melt a ships armor, that flies faster than a regular ship, and is capable of extragalactic travel is pretty much an exact discription of the smallest YV ships... it seems to be stretching even StarWars' laws of probablity that two different species or whatever would both have ships matching that discription.
Anyway, I agree with you that the Vong will not and should not be featured in Kotor III. They're cool and all, but it makes no sense for them to already be attacking the galaxy so long before they arrive again in the books. Now, if there was something in the books about them attempting to invade and being turned back by some Jedis led by one named Revan and one called The Exile, well then there'd be a reason for their inclusion. As that is not the case (so far as I remember), then there's no reason for them to be featured.
-
dying2live515
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:05 pm
- Contact:
[QUOTE=KyLewin]Hmm, I am forced then to ask why Anakin (and later Jacen, if memory serves) were able to sense the YV with their "vongsense"? If the YV are cut off from the Force, then they should be the same as droids in terms of being felt through the Force, basically invisible. As this is not the case, then it stands to reason that they are still connected in some way or another.[/QUOTE]
Actually, it is explained in the NJO books (Mainly Destiny's Way that Jacen can sense the Yuuzhan Vong, but not through the Force, which is why he is hesitant to use his "Vongsense". He needs to, essentially, stop using the Force and tap into the void that his slave seed left in his chest. That's how he senses them.
Actually, it is explained in the NJO books (Mainly Destiny's Way that Jacen can sense the Yuuzhan Vong, but not through the Force, which is why he is hesitant to use his "Vongsense". He needs to, essentially, stop using the Force and tap into the void that his slave seed left in his chest. That's how he senses them.
And that, my friends, is why you do not anger a Wookiee.
-
Chimaera182
- Posts: 2723
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:00 am
- Contact:
Frankly, the entire concept of light and dark sides of the Force always struck me as the way they make it in NJO (and Kreia's reasoning fits that mindset, as well).
The bases weren't created with the Chiss' support. The leaders liked to deny the existence of Thrawn's bases, but the common people all knew about it, and a lot of the people supported him and joined him. But the Chiss government did not.
And may I say, I like your avatar. :laugh:
The bases weren't created with the Chiss' support. The leaders liked to deny the existence of Thrawn's bases, but the common people all knew about it, and a lot of the people supported him and joined him. But the Chiss government did not.
And may I say, I like your avatar. :laugh:
General: "Those aren't ideas; those are special effects."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
[QUOTE=dying2live515]Actually, it is explained in the NJO books (Mainly Destiny's Way that Jacen can sense the Yuuzhan Vong, but not through the Force, which is why he is hesitant to use his "Vongsense". He needs to, essentially, stop using the Force and tap into the void that his slave seed left in his chest. That's how he senses them.[/QUOTE]
Well, as I said, I don't really remember a whole lot of specifis from the series because I got tired of it towards the end (and it's been awhile too), but Anakin did not have any slave seed in his chest. He his connection had something to do with a crystal for his lightsaber if I'm remembering correctly. So regardless of how Jacen was doing it, Anakin could also do it and he described it as there being some sort of tree on which the Vong existed on one branch and what was considered to be "the Force" existed on another.
I realize that later in the series the authors moved in a different direction from this by having the Vong actually having been stripped of the Force and with the decision that Jacen was basically the most powerful Jedi since Anakin Skywalker, but that just goes back to my complaint about the series seeming to wander aimlessly from book to book as authors disregarded (or were unaware of) what other authors had already done.
Well, as I said, I don't really remember a whole lot of specifis from the series because I got tired of it towards the end (and it's been awhile too), but Anakin did not have any slave seed in his chest. He his connection had something to do with a crystal for his lightsaber if I'm remembering correctly. So regardless of how Jacen was doing it, Anakin could also do it and he described it as there being some sort of tree on which the Vong existed on one branch and what was considered to be "the Force" existed on another.
I realize that later in the series the authors moved in a different direction from this by having the Vong actually having been stripped of the Force and with the decision that Jacen was basically the most powerful Jedi since Anakin Skywalker, but that just goes back to my complaint about the series seeming to wander aimlessly from book to book as authors disregarded (or were unaware of) what other authors had already done.
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]Frankly, the entire concept of light and dark sides of the Force always struck me as the way they make it in NJO (and Kreia's reasoning fits that mindset, as well).[/QUOTE]
After my last post I was thinking about this quite a bit and I still dislike the direction the series has decided to take in that area. I understand that it fits with some people's philosophies about right and wrong and even sort of meshes with Obi-Wan's infamous line "So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view." I just don't like it (probably because I think that there are some absolutes in the universe, if for no other reason because even those who claim there aren't absolutes, are actually making a statement about an absolute they believe in: "There are absolutely no absolutes").
After giving it quite a bit of thought, I think that it would have worked better (than saying, "oh, almost all of the Jedi were either wrong or diliberately misguiding people about the Force for the last 6,000 years) to say the reason emotions are so dangerous to Jedi is because strong emotions, combined with a strong connection to the Force can actually change a person's personality. A person with very little sensativity to the Force (a Han Solo for example) can hate, kill, love, whatever, and come out of it much easier than a Jedi who... for example... kills a Jedi Master in a moment of fear and anger over the safty of his secret wife and then goes from a servant of the light to a servant of darkness in a heartbeat and slaughters a whole temple full of children later that night. Earlier that day Anakin wasn't capable of that, so he's clearly been influenced by something outside of himself to change his personality on such a fundamental level. Hmm, reading over that, I'm not sure if I'm doing a very good job of putting my thoughts about the Force into words, but regardless, canon is canon, I just happen to think it's stupid to throw out everything that ever happened in the movies and the however many books before the NJO/Kotor II just because someone wants to give a postmodern spin to the Force.
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]The bases weren't created with the Chiss' support. The leaders liked to deny the existence of Thrawn's bases, but the common people all knew about it, and a lot of the people supported him and joined him. But the Chiss government did not.[/QUOTE]
Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. Was it ever explained whether or not Thrawn knew about the YV or if it was just a "theoretically something insanely bad could come from outside our galaxy, so let's make sure we have a few bases sitting out here just in case" sort of thing?
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]And may I say, I like your avatar. :laugh:[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I happen to be pretty found of it myself.
After my last post I was thinking about this quite a bit and I still dislike the direction the series has decided to take in that area. I understand that it fits with some people's philosophies about right and wrong and even sort of meshes with Obi-Wan's infamous line "So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view." I just don't like it (probably because I think that there are some absolutes in the universe, if for no other reason because even those who claim there aren't absolutes, are actually making a statement about an absolute they believe in: "There are absolutely no absolutes").
After giving it quite a bit of thought, I think that it would have worked better (than saying, "oh, almost all of the Jedi were either wrong or diliberately misguiding people about the Force for the last 6,000 years) to say the reason emotions are so dangerous to Jedi is because strong emotions, combined with a strong connection to the Force can actually change a person's personality. A person with very little sensativity to the Force (a Han Solo for example) can hate, kill, love, whatever, and come out of it much easier than a Jedi who... for example... kills a Jedi Master in a moment of fear and anger over the safty of his secret wife and then goes from a servant of the light to a servant of darkness in a heartbeat and slaughters a whole temple full of children later that night. Earlier that day Anakin wasn't capable of that, so he's clearly been influenced by something outside of himself to change his personality on such a fundamental level. Hmm, reading over that, I'm not sure if I'm doing a very good job of putting my thoughts about the Force into words, but regardless, canon is canon, I just happen to think it's stupid to throw out everything that ever happened in the movies and the however many books before the NJO/Kotor II just because someone wants to give a postmodern spin to the Force.
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]The bases weren't created with the Chiss' support. The leaders liked to deny the existence of Thrawn's bases, but the common people all knew about it, and a lot of the people supported him and joined him. But the Chiss government did not.[/QUOTE]
Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. Was it ever explained whether or not Thrawn knew about the YV or if it was just a "theoretically something insanely bad could come from outside our galaxy, so let's make sure we have a few bases sitting out here just in case" sort of thing?
[QUOTE=Chimaera182]And may I say, I like your avatar. :laugh:[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I happen to be pretty found of it myself.
-
Chimaera182
- Posts: 2723
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:00 am
- Contact:
[QUOTE=KyLewin]Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. Was it ever explained whether or not Thrawn knew about the YV or if it was just a "theoretically something insanely bad could come from outside our galaxy, so let's make sure we have a few bases sitting out here just in case" sort of thing?[/QUOTE]
They didn't say whether Thrawn knew of the YV, just that there were things in the Rim that were terrible and needed to be held back; he didn't even think he could win against them, which is why he sowed so many systems with sleeper units full of clones. Whether that evil turned out to be the YV (who don't even attack for like 10-15 years after the Hand of Thrawn duology) or was something else entirely was never really disclosed.
They didn't say whether Thrawn knew of the YV, just that there were things in the Rim that were terrible and needed to be held back; he didn't even think he could win against them, which is why he sowed so many systems with sleeper units full of clones. Whether that evil turned out to be the YV (who don't even attack for like 10-15 years after the Hand of Thrawn duology) or was something else entirely was never really disclosed.
General: "Those aren't ideas; those are special effects."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
-
Maxwel.Demon
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:48 pm
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
I hate to spoil the fun, but... it's not going to happen.
SPOILER:
First, in the New Jedi Order, they talk about how the Yuuzhan Vong had only had spies in the galaxy since about the time of the Emperor's rise to power, about 50 years. This is also when tarkin launched his attack on Zonoma Sekot, Vergere went with the Vong, and that guy in the sandy planet that Ganner and Corran visit died. So we're told there were no Yuuzhan Vong in the galaxy as far back as the 4000 years Pre-BOY like KoToR.
Also, Revan travels off into the remnants of the Old Sith Empire. That's enough of a hint for me to be pretty sure of what he's facing.
However, there is one part that alludes towards the yuuzhan vong being in the galaxy. In KoToR 1, talking to Canderous, you learn of a ship that appeared to be an asteroid, but then started spinning and shooting, which COULD be a Yuuzhan Vong coralskipper. That's about it, though.
SPOILER:
First, in the New Jedi Order, they talk about how the Yuuzhan Vong had only had spies in the galaxy since about the time of the Emperor's rise to power, about 50 years. This is also when tarkin launched his attack on Zonoma Sekot, Vergere went with the Vong, and that guy in the sandy planet that Ganner and Corran visit died. So we're told there were no Yuuzhan Vong in the galaxy as far back as the 4000 years Pre-BOY like KoToR.
Also, Revan travels off into the remnants of the Old Sith Empire. That's enough of a hint for me to be pretty sure of what he's facing.
However, there is one part that alludes towards the yuuzhan vong being in the galaxy. In KoToR 1, talking to Canderous, you learn of a ship that appeared to be an asteroid, but then started spinning and shooting, which COULD be a Yuuzhan Vong coralskipper. That's about it, though.
The sun came up with no conclusion,
Flowers sleeping in their beds.
The city cemetary's sleeping.
I'm wide awake, it's morning.
Flowers sleeping in their beds.
The city cemetary's sleeping.
I'm wide awake, it's morning.