Sideways thinking on pets.

[JessicaElytis]

Okay, bear with me as this is a dream inspired thought *smirks* And yes, I dream about DS2 on occasion.

I'm thinking about building a party out of nothing but pets and my main character (Melee style mroe than likely). 2-3 Dire Wolves, maybe a Mytralhorn or Light Nyrad or Scorpion Queen. (Though I'll prolly leave one slot open for NPC's to complete the secondary quests. )

In my dream, it was a complete pack of Dire Wolves

Couple questions:
1) Is it possible to have more than one pet? (((Yes, you can. Started experimenting on my own after writing this ^.^)))
2) On the feeding; I know what types of items to feed (from guides and trial and error) but does the power of the item contribute to the build of the pet, or just to the quickness of growth? ie, will a Dire Wolf fed on nothing but Set Armor pieces be stronger than one fed on a mismatch?

And lastly, any thoughts as to a mix up of pets? Or with keeping with a single breed? Comments, suggestions, ideas?

~Jessy

[swcarter]

2) On the feeding; I know what types of items to feed (from guides and trial and error) but does the power of the item contribute to the build of the pet, or just to the quickness of growth?

I'm pretty sure it's just the latter.

If your melee character is a weapon and shield type, then you can probably add anything and be ok. But I'd go with at least one healer pet.

SWC

[JessicaElytis]

Update for anyone else interested in this information.

I'm currently running with 3 Dire Wolves and feeding one only Set Armor (Melee), another only Rare Armor (Melee), and the third simply any Magical Armor (Melee). This may take some time to complete the tests as I don't use cheats or mods. (Yes, I'm very bullheaded about finding out things and will do things that that can be mind numbing and find the fun ^.^)

One thing to mention is that at level 25, even as babies, a Melee and 3 Dire Wolves are tearing through anything and everything in seconds. Currently Just starting in Act Two, Merc mode. (Yeah, low level. I just started this char On Monday lol)

I will be editing this post for further details so as not to continuously bump it and annoy those not interested *Grins* Though I expect some time to pass before I can update on feeding pattern results.

@SWC, yeah, I thought about the healing pet, but I rarely get hurt enough to need healing. Using Weapon/Shield fighter and letting the Wolves do the brunt of the damage. I'm jacked on Armor (276 current) so stand out and annoy the mobs and let the wolves tear them apart. A few healing potions for the tougher fights and all is well

~Jessy


EDIT::
Update: Due to the slow find on Set Armor, I've switched to another DW and feeding it Unique Armor. I sent the Set Armor DW to the Inn and will continue to feed it all I can find, though I feel this one may take a VERY long time, heh.

Update(7-8-07): Magical Dire Wolf matured. Rare Magical Dire Wolf nearing maturity. Unique Dire Wolf just grew out of Baby *winces* Easier to feed the other two when I can just spend gold to buy them food at the armor and weapon's shop in Kalrathia *smirks* Also approaching level 46 (level of stats given on KG's site). Will update at that point with whatever data I have for relevance.

[KillerGremal]

The dark side of pets

[...]

One thing to mention is that at level 25, even as babies, a Melee and 3 Dire Wolves are tearing through anything and everything in seconds.
[...]

@SWC, yeah, I thought about the healing pet, but I rarely get hurt enough to need healing.
[...]

Having 1 humanoid char plus serveral pets in DS2 is a bit 'undevelopped' because of two (main) reasons.
- You will get levels very fast due to a doubtable exp calculation part. Taking quest log data or local monsters as reference you actually should start act 2 rather with level 20 and not 25.
- DS2 will fall into some kind of easy game mode (without any notable reason) reducing the damage dealt by monsters by 25% if your hero is 4 levels higher and even lowering it by 50% if he is 6 levels higher than the attacked monster.

Both together will result is a very easy game experience (which even would increase with 3 different pets resp. 3 different emanations).
So hopefully this is considered to be because if you get the unmodified DS2 offers no way against this dilution.

[JessicaElytis]

Having 1 humanoid char plus serveral pets in DS2 is a bit 'undevelopped' because of two (main) reasons.
- You will get levels very fast due to a doubtable exp calculation part. Taking quest log data or local monsters as reference you actually should start act 2 rather with level 20 and not 25.
- DS2 will fall into some kind of easy game mode (without any notable reason) reducing the damage dealt by monsters by 25% if your hero is 4 levels higher and even lowering it by 50% if he is 6 levels higher than the attacked monster.

Both together will result is a very easy game experience (which even would increase with 3 different pets resp. 3 different emanations).
So hopefully this is considered to be because if you get the unmodified DS2 offers no way against this dilution.

Hmmm....never did a timeline correlation between char level and game level per Act. The level 25 melee was taken to Aman'lu soloed. No NPC's, no pets, to that point. I bought all 3 DW's there to begin testing.

I usually dismiss "easy battles" due to using tactics and having a brain that works infinitely better than any game AI. This isn't ego (well....maybe a bit ) but more that there is only so much programmers and game designers can do with AI.

DS2 does well. There is a "moral" coding, as well as a "call to battle" coding for some mobs. There are also some designed tactics for ambushes and some for just dirty fighting (the Skath releasing the caged Skath Cats in several places). However, nothing can compete with plain out instant tactical thinking and adaption. Until a true AI computer program is created, I don't see a game ever being better than a human. The game uses brute force. We, as players, can hit back with brute force, or devise tactics to prevail.

The information on the dilution is interesting, though I have to ask myself why? Is this to represent "teamwork" among the party to defend each other and work in concert in a battle? If so, does the dilution equations still hold true between Mirror and Rampage modes? OR is it just an unforeseen bug in the game?

Also, I just had a run in with the ??? creature and knocked him down @33%. Not too shabby for a 28th level, imo. Considering that thing is a level 100 mob

~Jessy

[KillerGremal]

[...]
Update: Due to the slow find on Set Armor, I've switched to another DW and feeding it Unique Armor. I sent the Set Armor DW to the Inn and will continue to feed it all I can find, though I feel this one may take a VERY long time, heh.

I guess you can skip that test.
As swcarter has mentioned, it won't matter if an item is magical/blue, rare or unique or if it belongs to a set. Super-magical items just help to shorten the feeding duration.

The level 25 melee was taken to Aman'lu soloed. No NPC's, no pets, to that point. I bought all 3 DW's there to begin testing.
[...]

Your char has such a high level because 'soloing' gives generally a lot of exp (rather too much) and because for exp calculation all (existing) pets will be ignored (thus your hero is considered to be solo with or without pets).
However pets are a remarkable help in combat so subjectively you will level very fast with them additionally to the generous exp you get anyway in this case.

But now you are at Amanlu so don't worry about it, it's just a reason why game experience may vary notably compared to a fully humanoid party.



About the 'dilution' remark: I just have meant that the game becomes easier the longer you will play.
For most RPG games it's desiderable to get a higher level as soon as possible but here with DS2 having a too high level just contributes to this game-becomes-easy-impression, and one reason is this strange damage penalty as described above. This is really bug in my eyes because there is no evident reason to punish lower leveled monsters.
Also monster should have (tiny) chance to beat you.

[JessicaElytis]

I guess you can skip that test.
As swcarter has mentioned, it won't matter if an item is magical/blue, rare or unique or if it belongs to a set. Super-magical items just help to shorten the feeding duration.

I took both SWC's and your posts to be "guesses" about the system based on reasonable experience in-game, but without any hard facts or testing behind it. That's why I'm doing the hard testing. Though if you've torn apart code or somesuch, let me know. That's WAY beyond my skill. I work within the game systems to try to find every avenue to the best possible combination. It's a habit of mine

From what I know of the game, I tend to agree with you both. I do not think the power of the item will make an effect, but this girl's got to pursue her curiosity for the proof

Plus it gives me something to shoot for in the game while I try to level this character to the ultimate max. It gets old to kill the same things over and over. Little personal goals within a game make it fun again. I try to make goals that are near impossible to keep the game fun to me. As I said, I'm wierd:laugh:

About the 'dilution' remark: I just have meant that the game becomes easier the longer you will play.
For most RPG games it's desiderable to get a higher level as soon as possible but here with DS2 having a too high level just contributes to this game-becomes-easy-impression, and one reason is this strange damage penalty as described above. This is really bug in my eyes because there is no evident reason to punish lower leveled monsters.
Also monster should have (tiny) chance to beat you.

If you EVER make a modual to DS2 to download, let me know. I loved DM's like you back when I played D&D. White-knuckled combat. Never knowing if you were going to survive. CHALLENGE!!!! Ah those were the days. Not like these spoiled kids these days. We had to roll dice uphill both ways!!!

~Jessy

[KillerGremal]

I took both SWC's and your posts to be "guesses" about the system based on reasonable experience in-game, but without any hard facts or testing behind it.
[...]

These are no guesses, this is rather traditional and well-established knowledge as discovered in early demo/beta times (not that it couldn't be false in particular when assigned now to the addon/v2.3).
However feel free to go on with some new and fresh pet tests.
Indeed i would be very surprised but if you find a difference between eg. rare and unique item-food i'm looking forward to add it as a special note to the pet list on my little DS2 outpost.


By the way, on that site you also would find some mods providing a few work-arounds or additional game features.

[Kel]

Pets are just plain fun......but limited in ability

I used the donkeys in the previous DS games but I always wanted a Dragon for a pet. Playing BW I finally added a pet and it was a Lap Dragon. I named it 'Lil Smaug' because I new it would never be like it's namesake.

I have enjoyed having Lil around and he seemed to have a preference for exceptional items. The higher the level the exceptional item the better and he did seem to grow faster when fed those items. Lil Smaug is full grown now but there seems to be another level Mature and feeding doesn't help.

Lil has a good attack and helpful aura but is limited to Nature magic with little in the way of elemental protection. I prefer my characters to be more rounded in all four types of attack. Why? I have already run across one type of monster that starts out with about 3000 hit points and you can only seem to get him down to 600+ and he doesn't take any more damage. I have my Combat Mage step up here with my favorite crowd disperser and Finala starts unleashing Greater Plasma Globes and that finishes that monster and others off. That spell works great in caves for spiders too as the plasma balls bounce around. She is also adept at Nature magic and wields a great encase spell and she is okay at ranged and melee fighting.

I like the idea of pets and wouldn't mind running with a party of wolves as I believe wolves and dragons are terribly misunderstood and I get along with both.

Oh well, that's my two cents worth.


Kel
*****

[JessicaElytis]

I used the donkeys in the previous DS games but I always wanted a Dragon for a pet. Playing BW I finally added a pet and it was a Lap Dragon. I named it 'Lil Smaug' because I new it would never be like it's namesake.

I have enjoyed having Lil around and he seemed to have a preference for exceptional items. The higher the level the exceptional item the better and he did seem to grow faster when fed those items. Lil Smaug is full grown now but there seems to be another level Mature and feeding doesn't help.

Lil has a good attack and helpful aura but is limited to Nature magic with little in the way of elemental protection. I prefer my characters to be more rounded in all four types of attack. Why? I have already run across one type of monster that starts out with about 3000 hit points and you can only seem to get him down to 600+ and he doesn't take any more damage. I have my Combat Mage step up here with my favorite crowd disperser and Finala starts unleashing Greater Plasma Globes and that finishes that monster and others off. That spell works great in caves for spiders too as the plasma balls bounce around. She is also adept at Nature magic and wields a great encase spell and she is okay at ranged and melee fighting.

I like the idea of pets and wouldn't mind running with a party of wolves as I believe wolves and dragons are terribly misunderstood and I get along with both.

Oh well, that's my two cents worth.


Kel
*****

How well pets (or NPC's for that matter) work in your party depends entirely on your tactics and gameplay style. Different people will benifit from different pets. Some will differ based on the class they play most.

With a shield/melee fighter, the 3 Dire Wolves I currently have are devastating. Now that all three have the emanation that returns 60% damage, foes fall in seconds. The Ganths on Zaramoth's Horns fall in 3-4 seconds. I'm still trying to determine if the emanations are cumulative. ie, is that 60% return no matter what,or is it now 180% return? Is there a max (ie 100%) or is it even exponential (doubtful on this)? Further testing required.

All-in-all, it depends on what you want, and what you like. A perfect build for me might suck for you, and vice versa *Grins* Is what makes this game fun. Figuring out what's best for you =^.^=

~Jessy

[JessicaElytis]

Last Update on feeding:

Confirmed. The power of item fed to the pets doesn't matter. Magical, Rare, and Unique item fed Dire Wolves all arrived at same stats.

I will note that RANGED weapons give significantly different stats than Melee. At level 46 stats of a Ranged Weapon fed Dire Wolf are:
Health: 2922
Str: 184
Dex: 294
Int: 56
Armor: 270
Min Damage: 166
Max Damage: 277

While the Dire Wolf fed Armor is massively more armored (Armor 467), The Health of 2222 offsets this, imo.

All-in-all, I would recommend anyone to feed nothing but straight Ranged Weapons to Dire Wolves for feeding for maximum tactical use. Strong, fast, healthy, and decently armored. This feeding pattern makes for an all around melee companion for any character.

Side note: Further testing on the emanations confirmed that they do NOT stack. Damage return is at 60% regardless of how many Dire Wolves are within the emanation proximity.

Second side note: More than one Dire Wolf, fed the same ways in the same party will "confuse" a foe, providing their combat potential is higher than the other characters in the party (ie, their max damage is higher than yours). This causes the foes to "bounce" back and forth between the Dire Wolves, not knowing which one to attack.

~Jessy

[Kel]

RE::: Last Update on feeding:

Nicely done JessicaElytis. I will have to get the mod for Dire wolves and play around with them as a party.

I think I will feed them first to let them grow a little before I take them out for a stroll around the neighborhood.

Puppies at play are always fun to watch.



Kel
*****

[KillerGremal]

Last Update on feeding:
...

I will note that RANGED weapons give significantly different stats than Melee. At level 46 stats of a Ranged Weapon fed Dire Wolf are:
Health: 2922
Str: 184
Dex: 294
Int: 56
Armor: 270
Min Damage: 166
Max Damage: 277

While the Dire Wolf fed Armor is massively more armored (Armor 467), The Health of 2222 offsets this, imo.

All-in-all, I would recommend anyone to feed nothing but straight Ranged Weapons to Dire Wolves for feeding for maximum tactical use. Strong, fast, healthy, and decently armored. This feeding pattern makes for an all around melee companion for any character.

...

Nice test.
Well for a melee pet with level 46 (just random!? ) a total armor of 270 is quite low and damage of 166-277 isn't exhilarating neither.

But in this case of a Dire Wolf the dex-food may be a good alternative nethertheless because it seems to make him really 'fat'.
And this will harmonize perfectly with its emanation - a Dire Wolf is able to reflect damage he has taken already and a health-rich one can do it longer!

However keep in mind generally, only damage take by physical attacks (melee and ranged) can be reflected (as it happens with equipment bonuses), thus don't absolutely set the priority on fatness only, partially make him solid and biting aswell.

[JessicaElytis]

Nice test.
Well for a melee pet with level 46 (just random!? ) a total armor of 270 is quite low and damage of 166-277 isn't exhilarating neither.

But in this case of a Dire Wolf the dex-food may be a good alternative nethertheless because it seems to make him really 'fat'.
And this will harmonize perfectly with its emanation - a Dire Wolf is able to reflect damage he has taken already and a health-rich one can do it longer!

However keep in mind generally, only damage take by physical attacks (melee and ranged) can be reflected (as it happens with equipment bonuses), thus don't absolutely set the priority on fatness only, partially make him solid and biting aswell.

The health really is only a factor in tough battles (ie the Dark Wizards or Valdis) where even one hit can deal a good bit of damage.

Remember, my tactic is a medium amount of damage with long staying power. With three Dire Wolves in my "pack" *grins* the mobs don't know who to attack. They first attack the first they see, then go after the one doing the most damage. With three options all doing equal damage, they get a bit confused :laugh:

With the mobs not sticking with a single Dire Wolf, this gives them time to regen. If I start taking to much damage, I go rampage and pull back from time to time, basically jumping in to support any Dire Wolf taking too much damage themselves, pulling attention to me for the moment.

While the Ranged feed is middle ground on everything but health (armor and damage) I still think this makes it a better rounded feed. High armored pets don't mean much if nothing ever attacks them because they don't do much damage. (Armor feed would prolly do a Mythrilhorn well)

However, as I've said before, pets, NPCs and their feeds/builds all depend on a particular person's style of tactics and gameplay as to what suits them best. This feed and mix works very well for me. And though 270 damage may seem low, with the damage return, the damage dealt is quite large. For magic users and such, that's when the Furious Howls comes into play

~Jessy

[Vai'Lutra]

Overkill!

I'm going through with female human combat mage and 3 dire wolves and killer gremal was right it seems to turn into a duckshoot around Anzunite Desert.

[JessicaElytis]

I'm going through with female human combat mage and 3 dire wolves and killer gremal was right it seems to turn into a duckshoot around Anzunite Desert.

Yes, and is why I "retired" that character and am on the 8th character build atm. *chuckles* Soloing with a jack-of-all-trades (Going to prove Drevin's advice was wrong ). Equal levels in all 4 classes. Currently halfway through BW at level 47 for all 4.

~Jessy

[Vai'Lutra]

I am amazed that works.