A few querries to whoever has trial-error'd with the mechanics, or knows them elsehow.
a.) Does lifeleechOnAttack stack? ie: can I put a Bat Fang on Lifebane (Ancient Limos reward, near Athens), to increase the drain per second? I pose the same question for Energy leeching and Bleeding.
b.) Can I have lifeleechOnAttack and lifeleechRetaliation stack? ie: I hit them with a leech proc, and they hit me, initiating the retaliation.
Also, lifeleechRetaliation, mostly on shields, doesnt seem to have a timeout. Does it go indefinitely until the unit dies?
c.) If I attack multiple times during the drain period (hit 1 starts 33 over 3s drain) does hit 2 reset the drain period to 3 seconds again, or just become invalid until the previous effect wears off, or does it increase the drain? (Pretty sure case 3 is false, from watching enemy hp)
If a second weapon with a different drain hits on hit 3, would that synergize? I havent been able to tell on this one, most things die in a hit or three, no time to analyse drain speeds.
Also, what about bleeding, in the same instances?
d.) Items with such modifiers as [+8% fire damage, 7 fire damage]. Is the [7 fire damage] applied to the item, all fire skills, or both? Also, same question for the +% fire damage. Do relics with the same type of bonuses stack here, too?
e.) What penalties are exacted upon dual-wielding characters? What characters can dual-wield? (My Warrior couldnt dual-wield until he got the Tier 2 {4 point req} Dual Wield "effectively use" skill. Why? Is my character, whenever that skill does -not- proc, using them ineffectively? What exactly does using them 'effectively' entail?)
Note, that my highest character right now is only a Lv 17 Warrior/Rogue, but I would like to know these things and understand them before further building my character, lest I make him useless.
f.) There are often floaters, with what what I assume are critical hits (Yellow=Player, Red=Opponent). Is the base critical modifier just 2x, or is it something different/variable per critical? I sometimes get ~ 58 damage criticals, and my weapons' combined damage between modifiers and charms and such is certainly higher than 29.
g.) How does armor on items function? (Not shields, that seems to be relatively straightforward %chance to block x damage) Is my Combined Armor rating subtracted from the enemy's attack damage? If not, why would I care what my Combined Armor rating is at? Does it reduce by a hidden Damage Absorbtion stat? Is each hit allocated to a specific body part (say, Torso), which then checks the Torso's armor rating for damage reduction?
h.) Are staves counted as elemental damage? Can their damage be reduced by mundane armor, or are resistances toward the specific staff type required?
i.) Can't think of anything else. I had a whole mental list of things I'd've liked to ask, but I suppose this'll be all for a while. Sorry for such bloody long list, and endless questions that will likely require lengthy answers. However, if a ew people can answer even just some at a time, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Thankyou.
AzureSkyy
~Matt.-
Edit: Added G and H.
Edit II: Added a bit to A and C on Bleeding.
Edit III: Character notation on C.
Game Mechanics Questions [Technical-ish]
A few querries to whoever has trial-error'd with the mechanics, or knows them elsehow.
a.) Does lifeleechOnAttack stack? ie: can I put a Bat Fang on Lifebane (Ancient Limos reward, near Athens), to increase the drain per second? I pose the same question for Energy leeching and Bleeding.
Only if you have a mod that allows you to socket blue and purple weapons. Then yes. Also if you have say boots that increase life drain % then that will help life drain/sec as well.
b.) Can I have lifeleechOnAttack and lifeleechRetaliation stack? ie: I hit them with a leech proc, and they hit me, initiating the retaliation.
Also, lifeleechRetaliation, mostly on shields, doesnt seem to have a timeout. Does it go indefinitely until the unit dies?
I have not proven this either way (also answering 3c). I have tried poison builds (lasts six seconds) with high attack speed and you would think they could kill bosses FAST 12 X poison damage x resist lowering = big damage but in my experience it doesn't seem to work that way. The poison DOT moves the same no matter how many times you hit them. I speculate (no proof) that if you hit for 30 life leach in 3 sec in sec 1 then a proc goes for 60 life leach for 3 sec then the 20 leach/sec overrides the 10 leach/sec (rather than adding to it)
c.) If I attack multiple times during the drain period (hit 1 starts 33 over 3s drain) does hit 2 reset the drain period to 3 seconds again, or just become invalid until the previous effect wears off, or does it increase the drain? (Pretty sure case 3 is false, from watching enemy hp)
If a second weapon with a different drain hits on hit 3, would that synergize? I havent been able to tell on this one, most things die in a hit or three, no time to analyse drain speeds.
Also, what about bleeding, in the same instances?
See b. I think the game stores drain/sec and a clock goes for how long this occurs. Any other drains don't add but the biggest drain takes effect. This is just my theory and I haven't proven it. But I haven't notice characters with fast attack and DOT damage being anything special.
d.) Items with such modifiers as [+8% fire damage, 7 fire damage]. Is the [7 fire damage] applied to the item, all fire skills, or both? Also, same question for the +% fire damage. Do relics with the same type of bonuses stack here, too?
The +8% fire damage applies to ANY use of fire spell weapon etc. 7 fire damage adds to weapon including throwing knives for rogue but not any other non-weapon spell. But the 8% fire damage would effect RoF and volcanic orb say.
e.) What penalties are exacted upon dual-wielding characters? What characters can dual-wield? (My Warrior couldnt dual-wield until he got the Tier 2 {4 point req} Dual Wield "effectively use" skill. Why? Is my character, whenever that skill does -not- proc, using them ineffectively? What exactly does using them 'effectively' entail?)
Note, that my highest character right now is only a Lv 17 Warrior/Rogue, but I would like to know these things and understand them before further building my character, lest I make him useless.
You miss out on a shield is the penalty. Dual wield really shines when you have the tree maxed out. Sometimes I don't put points in cross-cut if I can't afford them. That means the biggest advantage is to have chances that both your weapons hit at the same time! Without a large chance of this the only advantage is to have two weapons modifiers. Example to +% attack speed weapons are quite fast. The +offensive ability from one weapon applies to attacks from the other. +% damage (or cold or piercing) from one weapon applies to the other.
Some good setups are a full DW tree and a weapon setup with % attack damage to health, stun, freeze, slow. Notice that these are all things that will keep YOU alive. The main problem with dual wield is that the opponent doesn't just stand there and let you massacre them. They hit back.
f.) There are often floaters, with what what I assume are critical hits (Yellow=Player, Red=Opponent). Is the base critical modifier just 2x, or is it something different/variable per critical? I sometimes get ~ 58 damage criticals, and my weapons' combined damage between modifiers and charms and such is certainly higher than 29.
Criticals only multiply the physical and piercing damage. I am not sure if the yellow is just the 'critical damage' (the extra) or if is the total
g.) How does armor on items function? (Not shields, that seems to be relatively straightforward %chance to block x damage) Is my Combined Armor rating subtracted from the enemy's attack damage? If not, why would I care what my Combined Armor rating is at? Does it reduce by a hidden Damage Absorbtion stat? Is each hit allocated to a specific body part (say, Torso), which then checks the Torso's armor rating for damage reduction?
You got it! Each hit goes to a body part. Then the armor blocks 66% of the damage modified by armor absorption %. Damage above the value of the armor goes with only the portion lower than the value blocked ex 200 damage hit on 100 armor does 100 *.34 + 100 (the value over the armor but a 100 damage hit does 100 * .34 and a 50 hit does 50 * .34. Its kind of like 66% physical resist to damage lower than the armor value. Bonus armor and jewelry armor applies to each piece!!!
h.) Are staves counted as elemental damage? Can their damage be reduced by mundane armor, or are resistances toward the specific staff type required?
Staves do elemental damage. See the item. Only elemental resistance blocks the elemental damage. Armor only blocks physical damage.
i.) Can't think of anything else. I had a whole mental list of things I'd've liked to ask, but I suppose this'll be all for a while. Sorry for such bloody long list, and endless questions that will likely require lengthy answers. However, if a ew people can answer even just some at a time, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Thankyou.
AzureSkyy
~Matt.-
a.) Does lifeleechOnAttack stack? ie: can I put a Bat Fang on Lifebane (Ancient Limos reward, near Athens), to increase the drain per second? I pose the same question for Energy leeching and Bleeding.
Only if you have a mod that allows you to socket blue and purple weapons. Then yes. Also if you have say boots that increase life drain % then that will help life drain/sec as well.
b.) Can I have lifeleechOnAttack and lifeleechRetaliation stack? ie: I hit them with a leech proc, and they hit me, initiating the retaliation.
Also, lifeleechRetaliation, mostly on shields, doesnt seem to have a timeout. Does it go indefinitely until the unit dies?
I have not proven this either way (also answering 3c). I have tried poison builds (lasts six seconds) with high attack speed and you would think they could kill bosses FAST 12 X poison damage x resist lowering = big damage but in my experience it doesn't seem to work that way. The poison DOT moves the same no matter how many times you hit them. I speculate (no proof) that if you hit for 30 life leach in 3 sec in sec 1 then a proc goes for 60 life leach for 3 sec then the 20 leach/sec overrides the 10 leach/sec (rather than adding to it)
c.) If I attack multiple times during the drain period (hit 1 starts 33 over 3s drain) does hit 2 reset the drain period to 3 seconds again, or just become invalid until the previous effect wears off, or does it increase the drain? (Pretty sure case 3 is false, from watching enemy hp)
If a second weapon with a different drain hits on hit 3, would that synergize? I havent been able to tell on this one, most things die in a hit or three, no time to analyse drain speeds.
Also, what about bleeding, in the same instances?
See b. I think the game stores drain/sec and a clock goes for how long this occurs. Any other drains don't add but the biggest drain takes effect. This is just my theory and I haven't proven it. But I haven't notice characters with fast attack and DOT damage being anything special.
d.) Items with such modifiers as [+8% fire damage, 7 fire damage]. Is the [7 fire damage] applied to the item, all fire skills, or both? Also, same question for the +% fire damage. Do relics with the same type of bonuses stack here, too?
The +8% fire damage applies to ANY use of fire spell weapon etc. 7 fire damage adds to weapon including throwing knives for rogue but not any other non-weapon spell. But the 8% fire damage would effect RoF and volcanic orb say.
e.) What penalties are exacted upon dual-wielding characters? What characters can dual-wield? (My Warrior couldnt dual-wield until he got the Tier 2 {4 point req} Dual Wield "effectively use" skill. Why? Is my character, whenever that skill does -not- proc, using them ineffectively? What exactly does using them 'effectively' entail?)
Note, that my highest character right now is only a Lv 17 Warrior/Rogue, but I would like to know these things and understand them before further building my character, lest I make him useless.
You miss out on a shield is the penalty. Dual wield really shines when you have the tree maxed out. Sometimes I don't put points in cross-cut if I can't afford them. That means the biggest advantage is to have chances that both your weapons hit at the same time! Without a large chance of this the only advantage is to have two weapons modifiers. Example to +% attack speed weapons are quite fast. The +offensive ability from one weapon applies to attacks from the other. +% damage (or cold or piercing) from one weapon applies to the other.
Some good setups are a full DW tree and a weapon setup with % attack damage to health, stun, freeze, slow. Notice that these are all things that will keep YOU alive. The main problem with dual wield is that the opponent doesn't just stand there and let you massacre them. They hit back.
f.) There are often floaters, with what what I assume are critical hits (Yellow=Player, Red=Opponent). Is the base critical modifier just 2x, or is it something different/variable per critical? I sometimes get ~ 58 damage criticals, and my weapons' combined damage between modifiers and charms and such is certainly higher than 29.
Criticals only multiply the physical and piercing damage. I am not sure if the yellow is just the 'critical damage' (the extra) or if is the total
g.) How does armor on items function? (Not shields, that seems to be relatively straightforward %chance to block x damage) Is my Combined Armor rating subtracted from the enemy's attack damage? If not, why would I care what my Combined Armor rating is at? Does it reduce by a hidden Damage Absorbtion stat? Is each hit allocated to a specific body part (say, Torso), which then checks the Torso's armor rating for damage reduction?
You got it! Each hit goes to a body part. Then the armor blocks 66% of the damage modified by armor absorption %. Damage above the value of the armor goes with only the portion lower than the value blocked ex 200 damage hit on 100 armor does 100 *.34 + 100 (the value over the armor but a 100 damage hit does 100 * .34 and a 50 hit does 50 * .34. Its kind of like 66% physical resist to damage lower than the armor value. Bonus armor and jewelry armor applies to each piece!!!
h.) Are staves counted as elemental damage? Can their damage be reduced by mundane armor, or are resistances toward the specific staff type required?
Staves do elemental damage. See the item. Only elemental resistance blocks the elemental damage. Armor only blocks physical damage.
i.) Can't think of anything else. I had a whole mental list of things I'd've liked to ask, but I suppose this'll be all for a while. Sorry for such bloody long list, and endless questions that will likely require lengthy answers. However, if a ew people can answer even just some at a time, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Thankyou.
AzureSkyy
~Matt.-
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Alright. So, you're completely awesome, and of the ... Five? places I've posted this, you're the only one with a clue. ^_^
a.) Okay. I'd forgotten that Lifebane or whatever was Blue, but the purpose of the asking was answered anyway; it does infact increase the drain, then, since it's on one weapon. Pretty sure, atleast that';s what I got from your reply. Thankyou.
b.) Yeah, figured, about them not stacking just because it was another hit with another weapon, but now the big thing is, does it reset the timer, or make me wait til it's off before I can start another one.
And, we forgot to discuss Retaliation, unless it's no different from the other leech effects.
c.) -- Pretty well covered. --
d.) Alright, that makes -some- sense, but what about like, Beastcallers' Beads type thing (Not beastcallers', cuz that's for pets, but that type of modifier, on the player), where the [7 fire damage], [+8% fire damage] isnt on a particular weapon? Where would it then apply it to?
e.) With dual-wielding, my DPS suffered from having an extra weapon, and I -think- my attackspeed suffered too. Oh well, whatever. That's not really a problem, just something I figured couldn't hurt to ask.
f.) It'd make more sense to have the floaters' damage be the total damage, or else you'd never know the base it worked off of, lol. Be nice to know how the multipliers worked, but again, oh well. They're criticals, I'll just accept that it gives me more damage.
g.) Totally confused on the armor formula. Spell it out a little more for me, if you could please? Work on, say, a 1000 damage hit, to just give a large, detailed range and readout of how the %s work without needing to round.
(Where does this 66% come from?)
(Does game Difficulty affect armor efficiency?)
h.) Alrighty. Thankyou.
i.) ADDED! :b How does Vitality Damage work? Is it just Physical under a different damage type? How do I increase it? It's not an Elemental damage type, so the vast majority of good modifiers are gone, and beyond Beastcaller type things with Vitality on them, I've never seen a +% Vitality Damage modifier. Does Intelligence increase the damage of it? It seems like the potential for Vitality damage is really quite low. Give me some hope? I really do like the Spirit tree.
j.) To be injected into the discussion later. ^^
Thankyou, once again.
AzureSkyy
~Matt.-
a.) Okay. I'd forgotten that Lifebane or whatever was Blue, but the purpose of the asking was answered anyway; it does infact increase the drain, then, since it's on one weapon. Pretty sure, atleast that';s what I got from your reply. Thankyou.
b.) Yeah, figured, about them not stacking just because it was another hit with another weapon, but now the big thing is, does it reset the timer, or make me wait til it's off before I can start another one.
And, we forgot to discuss Retaliation, unless it's no different from the other leech effects.
c.) -- Pretty well covered. --
d.) Alright, that makes -some- sense, but what about like, Beastcallers' Beads type thing (Not beastcallers', cuz that's for pets, but that type of modifier, on the player), where the [7 fire damage], [+8% fire damage] isnt on a particular weapon? Where would it then apply it to?
e.) With dual-wielding, my DPS suffered from having an extra weapon, and I -think- my attackspeed suffered too. Oh well, whatever. That's not really a problem, just something I figured couldn't hurt to ask.
f.) It'd make more sense to have the floaters' damage be the total damage, or else you'd never know the base it worked off of, lol. Be nice to know how the multipliers worked, but again, oh well. They're criticals, I'll just accept that it gives me more damage.
g.) Totally confused on the armor formula. Spell it out a little more for me, if you could please? Work on, say, a 1000 damage hit, to just give a large, detailed range and readout of how the %s work without needing to round.
(Where does this 66% come from?)
(Does game Difficulty affect armor efficiency?)
h.) Alrighty. Thankyou.
i.) ADDED! :b How does Vitality Damage work? Is it just Physical under a different damage type? How do I increase it? It's not an Elemental damage type, so the vast majority of good modifiers are gone, and beyond Beastcaller type things with Vitality on them, I've never seen a +% Vitality Damage modifier. Does Intelligence increase the damage of it? It seems like the potential for Vitality damage is really quite low.
Give me some hope? I really do like the Spirit tree.j.) To be injected into the discussion later. ^^
Thankyou, once again.
AzureSkyy
~Matt.-
b) it resets the timer. I think the computer stores 10 poison/sec for 12 seconds. If then you hit for 20 poison/sec for 1 sec then you do 20 the next sec and 10 the following 11! Thats my theory.
So I think poison etc much like an elephant never forgets!
d) rings add the 7 fire to your weapon (both if dual wielding) and +% fire to any fire you do (spells, retaliation etc). Edit: I can't prove these things but I know a lot of people believe them...I don't know how to look at the code or anything.
e) remember when a DW procs you do MORE damage than in your dps character sheet. You hit with both your weapons. So if you have two hammers that do +25% to damage then they both hit for +50% damage (each). If its hew then thats both hammers hitting for +100%. If you have crushing blow on then each weapon can deliver a crushing blow or a crit. With 1 good weapon and 1 bad you are better with a shield but 2 good weapons are nice but you also need to build some defense in. If you get tired of DW just earn gold for a mystic and pump it in onslaught tree or other mastery.
I personally like defender better because they have rockin defense and rockin offense (almost as good as DW with some awsome shield).
f) yeah big numbers are good . Most builds do more damage with more str since then you deal more piercing (more physical to convert to pierce) AND more physical. Dex is more for equipping gear eg stonebinders cuffs and for defensive and offensive ability although you can also get this with gear bonuses. I am actually experimenting with some extreme dex builds. Hunting/rogue/dream/warfare/defense(because armor handling allows you to take less str) combinations. I haven't got that far but I want to see if you can make builds that do fair damage and either always crit or can't get hit in melee (and block projectiles with shield).
g) sorry. Armor absorbs 66% of damage. so if your hit for 10 damage you take 3 or 4 damage about. However if the hit is above the value of THAT piece of armor the EXTRA is not soaked.
Example you are hit for 100 damage and unfortunately your helm is only 20 armor. Straight away the 20 armor can soak 66%. But it can only do this up to 20 so you take about 7 damage. But wait? What about the other 80 above the 20? That goes STRAIGHT through with no soak. So the total damage for that hit is 87. Next they hit your torso which has 90 armor (you have epic torso armor). it soaks 66% percent of 90. Thats about 30 damage. The extra 10 goes straight through so you take 40 total.
Same example. Now someone hits each location (helm 20 and torso 90) for 10 damage. Both soak the same ammount since its not above the value of either.
So big armor is only important when you are taking big damage. Having 10
million armor can only at best absorb 66%. But there are some items and the defenders armor handling skill that increase armor absorption. These are good .
i) I don't think any class can make a living doing only vitality. The advantage is that not many monsters have any resistance to it. I think skeletons might have resistance but I'm not sure. Nice thing about vitality is that armor doesn't block it and not much has resists.
So I think poison etc much like an elephant never forgets!
d) rings add the 7 fire to your weapon (both if dual wielding) and +% fire to any fire you do (spells, retaliation etc). Edit: I can't prove these things but I know a lot of people believe them...I don't know how to look at the code or anything.
e) remember when a DW procs you do MORE damage than in your dps character sheet. You hit with both your weapons. So if you have two hammers that do +25% to damage then they both hit for +50% damage (each). If its hew then thats both hammers hitting for +100%. If you have crushing blow on then each weapon can deliver a crushing blow or a crit. With 1 good weapon and 1 bad you are better with a shield but 2 good weapons are nice but you also need to build some defense in. If you get tired of DW just earn gold for a mystic and pump it in onslaught tree or other mastery.
I personally like defender better because they have rockin defense and rockin offense (almost as good as DW with some awsome shield).
f) yeah big numbers are good
. Most builds do more damage with more str since then you deal more piercing (more physical to convert to pierce) AND more physical. Dex is more for equipping gear eg stonebinders cuffs and for defensive and offensive ability although you can also get this with gear bonuses. I am actually experimenting with some extreme dex builds. Hunting/rogue/dream/warfare/defense(because armor handling allows you to take less str) combinations. I haven't got that far but I want to see if you can make builds that do fair damage and either always crit or can't get hit in melee (and block projectiles with shield).g) sorry. Armor absorbs 66% of damage. so if your hit for 10 damage you take 3 or 4 damage about. However if the hit is above the value of THAT piece of armor the EXTRA is not soaked.
Example you are hit for 100 damage and unfortunately your helm is only 20 armor. Straight away the 20 armor can soak 66%. But it can only do this up to 20 so you take about 7 damage. But wait? What about the other 80 above the 20? That goes STRAIGHT through with no soak. So the total damage for that hit is 87. Next they hit your torso which has 90 armor (you have epic torso armor). it soaks 66% percent of 90. Thats about 30 damage. The extra 10 goes straight through so you take 40 total.
Same example. Now someone hits each location (helm 20 and torso 90) for 10 damage. Both soak the same ammount since its not above the value of either.
So big armor is only important when you are taking big damage. Having 10
million armor can only at best absorb 66%. But there are some items and the defenders armor handling skill that increase armor absorption. These are good .
i) I don't think any class can make a living doing only vitality. The advantage is that not many monsters have any resistance to it. I think skeletons might have resistance but I'm not sure. Nice thing about vitality is that armor doesn't block it and not much has resists.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Alright. Thanks for the clarify on the timer. I dont quite understand your poison example, but I know what I wanted to know.
Also, I now understand armor. Your armor soaks 66% of each point of damage within your armor's Armor Rating, then the rest is done to your health.
Anyway. I've realized that, through getting all these wierd, technical things down, it's been taking away from the game for me, so I'm going to stop now, and just play. You're all lovely people, and thankyou, again, for helping out.
Azureskyy
~Matt.-
Also, I now understand armor. Your armor soaks 66% of each point of damage within your armor's Armor Rating, then the rest is done to your health.
Anyway. I've realized that, through getting all these wierd, technical things down, it's been taking away from the game for me, so I'm going to stop now, and just play. You're all lovely people, and thankyou, again, for helping out.
Azureskyy
~Matt.-