Party Optimization

Carnifex · Post by **Carnifex** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:52 am

Hi,

First of all, this is going to be a rather long post, so I apologize in advance.

Now, I've decided on what 4 characters I'll use running through this game but I'm debating some stuff on each of the characters. I'd like you input.

[Main Character - Elven Combat Mage]

Combat, Highest Priority: Debilitation, Grim Necromancy, Vampirism
Combat, Other: Devastation, Arcane Fury, Brilliance
Cross-class: Natural Bond, Fortitude, Survival

Powers: Corrosive Eruption, Harvest Soul, (Energy Orb ?)

Since I'm focusing on death magic the high priorities are the talents improving curses and death magic, so it's very likely I'll invest heavily into those. The other combat skills I'm planning to put enough skillpoints into to qualify for the maximum ranks for those powers I intend to use.

Questions:

- Should I just increase the "Combat, other" skills to meet the power prerequisites, or any of them worth investing further into ?
- Are Natural Bond, Fortitude and Survival worth crossclassing into ? (The few levels needed in each discipline are very low, so they won't really dilute the build) If they are, by how much ?

[Lothar - Tank]

Melee, Highest Priority: Fortitude, Barricade, Toughness, Reinforced Armor.
Melee, Other: Critical Strike, Alacrity (?)
Cross-class: Survival

Powers: Provoke

Questions:

- Armor is King. So Reinforced Armor will be maximized. Fortitude, Barricade and Toughness will get a fair share of points as well. I'll probably invest some in critical strike too, so he can put out some damage as well, not just soak it up. Getting Reinforced armor and the Provoke power maxed out will be his highest priority, though. I'm still not sure if I should invest more points into Rebuke than necessary to meet the Provoke prerequisites though. What do you think ?

- I'm debating Alacrity to further his damage potential some more, if it's worth it. What's the verdict?

- Survival makes sense for a tank. The question is, how much should one invest in this skill ?

[Deru - Ranged]

Ranged, Highest priority: Critical Shot, Biting Arrow, Penetrate, Mortal Wound
Ranged, Other: Survival, Far Shot, Shockwave, Cunning Renewal (?)
Cross-class: Fortitude

Powers: Take Aim, Thunderous Shots, (Charged Shots ?)

Questions:

- Critical shot has nice synergy with Mortal wound so those will be maximized along with Biting Arrow. Is penetrate worth maximizing as well, or should it be left at a "medium" value ?

- Some survival might be useful for resistances. Not sure how much non-tanking characters should invest in this skill, though. Anyone know ?

- I won't invest beyond power prerequisites in far shot, which probably means I'll do the same for shockwave. Input ?

- Cunning renewal is interesting. Ranger powers are amazing, so it might be worth putting some points into. Input ?

- Fortitude is nice for increased survivability - question is, how much can you afford to put into it, really ?

[Taar - Nature - Healing/Buffs/Ice]

Nature, Highest Priority: Aquatic Affinity, Enveloping Embrace, Feral Wrath, Nurturing Gift
Nature, Other: Natural Bond, Arctic Mastery, Freezing
Crossclass: Brilliance, Fortitude, Survival

Powers: Invulnerability, Circle of Frost, (Icicle Blast ?), (Glacial Aura ?)

I don't like using summons, I never did. In any game. It's just not my thing. I intend to use Taar for buffs and heals, along with some Ice damage.

Questions:

- I will absolutely, positively maximize Aquatic Affinity. It's perfect for what I intend to use Taar for. I'll be investing alot into Nurturing Gift, Enveloping Embrace, Feral Wrath. I'm just not sure they're "up there" with Aquatic Affinity. I'm thinking about distributing evenly between those, and the somewhat less into Arctic Mastery and Freezing, since Icedamage Taar's secondary role. What's your take on this ?

- Brilliance worth investing in ? How much ?

- Fortitude worth investing in ? How much ?

- Survival worth investing in ? How much ?

That's all I can think of for now. Any thoughts ?

Kind Regards,

//C

flix · Post by **flix** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:49 am

Looks pretty good. My lineup in Mercenary was pretty similar. I started with an elven death mage, though you'll probably want to start with some generic fire spells at the very lowest levels. I ignored his summons completely until Veteran. Energy orb is of tremendous power in Mercenary, max it through Brilliance as soon as you like. I relied on Soul Harvest for a long time before I realized the raw power of Corrosive Explosion. Both are useful, though the life leech from Soul Harvest isn't all that spectacular. Ignore the other powers.

I made Lothar into a dual wielder, thinking MORE DAMAGE. The damage from any tank is pretty pathetic, but you're taking a safer route. Some form of Provoke (either melee or summon) becomes necessary after Merc. If you have the Broken World expansion, be sure to make him into a Fist of Stone, not just pure melee. Alacrity's not going to do you any good if you're not a dual wielder, and you must be wearing a shield to use provoke. Instead, put those points in Critical Strike (chance for critical hit) and Deadly Strike (increased damage of critical hits). Just enough points in rebuke for power requirements, let +to skills equipment take care of the rest. I myself didn't add a tank until Act II in Veteran (Eva).

Your ranger looks great, though I chose Vix over Deru (he's funny, she's annoying). Cunning renewal is good, by Elite you can be using Take Aim as almost every attack against stronger monsters.

Putting some cross-class points into Fortitude is good for any character, as well as Survival, but not more than 3 points I'd say. You should consider using the "Spirit Embrace" buff so you're not worrying about resistances all the time. With this buff, and 3 or 4 points in Survival, Deru will be set for resistances, though the others will need to get some from equipment.

You may regret not utilizing you nature mage's summons. They can be extremely powerful. But if it's not your style I won't try to talk you into it. By ignoring them, you'll have plenty of points to invest in healing, ice, and buffs. I would give them priority in roughly that order.

The only ice attack I experimented with Taar was Icicle Blast, and it's pretty powerful up through Veteran difficulty. After that I discovered the power of Ether Blast and refocused on summons. I seemed to get massive amounts of +plus to skills to the ice tree, which made it harder to put points there, as they were already high levels thanks to equipment. Thus, I mostly ignored my (weak) Glacial Aura and Circle of Frost. Don't be stingy with Brilliance points for Taar. Add them if you find you're quaffing mana potion more than you'd like. And energy orb might help get you out of a bind.

Garena_sucks · Post by **Garena_sucks** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:35 am

Phew! Exhaustive! I am not used to such long posts, but they sure show your dedication. You say you have 'decided' your hero classes which implies you are sticking to them.But I think why not make your ranged a blood assassin? If you are going death mage and debilitation you get corrosive eruption(that's an extremely good AOE damage spell). Coupled with Rune of Blood, or Ravaging strike, or Execute, and Taar's Icicle Blast(you were going to improve Taar in Ice) the effect can be devastating. I have tried it myself. If some monsters still persist a few soul lances and its over.

Or why not go for Lothar as FOS? With all armor and everything and chant of stone he can tank like hell. He doesn't have to fear using provoke he gains consciousness fast. Using Taar's invulnerability, then stone form, coupled with rune of sacrifice, with your death mage(with quickened casting and brilliance) giving high damage can be a good strategy. After stone form and invulnerability your mage will continue because of vampirism, your lothar due to chant and others due to Taar's healing.

What do you think?

Carnifex · Post by **Carnifex** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:11 pm

Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it!

@flix: The reason I wanted to know if Alacrity was viable was that I couldn't find anything that explicitly stated you needed to be dualwielding for it to have effect. I guess the fact that it's in the dual-wield tree is pretty self-explanatory, heh. *smacks forehead*

I may try another group too at some point, with Taar as a healer/buffer/summoner, ignoring the ice talents.

@Garena: The reason I haven't looked into the Fist of Stone and Blood Assassin classes yet, is simply because I don't own the expansion yet

But interesting ideas nonetheless. I'll probably pick up a copy soon enough.

//C

Salidin54 · Post by **Salidin54** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:17 pm

My first go around:
Main character:Human, half melee half combat magic
Specialized in dual wielding and lightning magic. Dual wielding allowed me to use 2 different sets occasionally and lightning magic had the best special powers which I needed when fighting bosses.

Lothar:mainly melee but about 10 levels in nature magic
Specialized in dual wielding as well but only used the best weapons I could find that my main character often couldn't use due to him being half and half. Put most of his points into getting the spin attack power so he could take down mobs that often accompanied bosses. The 10 nature magic levels were so he could use healing magic.

Deru:half ranged half nature magic
Mainly used bows and crossbows so I could have someone to use all the ranged weapons I found. Half nature magic so she could use healing magic and use ice powers which once again came in handy during boss fights.

Finalla:half nature magic half combat magic
Mainly used death magic but still used lightning powers which had the best damage. Nature magic was mainly to have another healer but also so she could use invulnerability.

I got tired of going through health potions early on and decided to have most of my characters be able to use healing magic. Lothar and my main character often tanked their way to the front and then used their powers on any bosses that might have been in the back.

Currently I have an elven main half melee and half combat magic but this time using one sword and a shield and Lothar uses two handed weapons. I'm still in the first part but as soon as I can get Finalla I will.

Xzeihoranth · Post by **Xzeihoranth** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:56 pm

First and foremost, do NOT go Ice with Taar or any nature mage. Grasping Vine is the highest dmg output per attack there is...period. And it holds in place.
Also, mages need quickened casting...it's the same as increasing damage output. Other than that, if u have a tank with max +defense skills the game is just easy. I wouldn't bother putting cross skills into survival once you get to lvl 18, Spirit embrace FTW.

Garena_sucks · Post by **Garena_sucks** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:11 am

I think ice is a very useful skill and should be taken in the skill built. With quickened casting and freeze upto 25 percent chance I have actually seen monsters remaining in constant freeze. Entangling with vines is far better than this but works on melee only as ranged may be immobilized but can still attack. In fact though I know that nature mage summons are good tankers I still went for just ice spells and wrath and embrace spells and even that works quite well.

Xzeihoranth · Post by **Xzeihoranth** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:03 pm

Ice is effective, however, damage on grasping vine can get to like 15k+ maybe? And can be used on monsters on a higher plane (i.e. upstairs in dungeons/snowbrook haven). and on other sides of doors/walls. If Taar finds something upstairs/downstairs/someplace I can't reach..i just give her a few seconds and she wipes out mobs like nothing.

unlimited · Post by **unlimited** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:35 pm

This is what I have, comments as well as future planning and who my sixth member should be? I'm in Vet right now and have BW

Lothar - Fist of Stone.
Main Power: Provoke
Enough points to get 3 points in Brutal Attack, Provoke, Whirling Strike, Chant of Stone as well as a point in the two 1-point defensive Fist of Stone abilities. Lothar also uses healing spells (hence the Healing Hands) - heal and nourish.

Main Character - Combat Mage (Death)
Main Power: Harvest Soul (or Energy Orb?)
Enough points for 3 points in Energy Orb, Harvest Soul, and Corrosive Eruption. Concentration thereafter on Grim Necromancy, Quickened Casting, and Arcane Fury. MAYBE points in Natural Bond? (I have enough leech to continuously cast Grave Beam with no mana cost, but that's it.)

Deru - Throwing Ranger/Blood Assassin
Main Power: Rune of Blood
Enough points to max all blood assassin powers as well as the 1-points. Then, after that, it's all ranger abilities to max Take Aim and the Throwing Abilities

Taar - Summon/Healing Mage
Main Power: Invulnerability
I figured that having two healers will make my party safer and last longer. Taar uses Healing Cascade, Summon (tank), as well as Spirit Embrace and Wrath of Ice.
Enough points to max all summon abilities, followed by who knows?

Ressa - Bow-wielding Blood Assassin
Main Power: Execute/Rune of Blood
Also enough points to max all blood assassin powers + 1 points, followed by ranger abilities for Take Aim (ftw) and Bow Abilities

Projected 6th Character: Finala - Fire Mage
Main Power: Detonate?
Enough points to max all fire abilities

Questions/Concerns: First what should I get as 6th character if not Finala? What specialty?

Also Taar runs out of mana a lot, what would help her out considering she does not attack and just supports? Because my healers run out of mana, often my party goes when they can't heal (I try to avoid this and am mostly good at doing so).

Also I really like Take Aim - the damage is ridiculous with it. Any other tips? Where should I put points with Taar after summon powers are maxed? Just Natural Bond, or an Embrace/Wrath/Healing slot? Also should I use Wrath of Ancestors or Ice?

Thanks

kricius · Post by **kricius** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:32 am

...

It is ok, but NEVER invest more points in any skill than the necessary for powers, unless u're planning to reset them later, 'cause u'll find many equipments giving ur chars high bonuses to all skills they've learnt.

It's also possible that u're planning to mix classes or the bonus skillpoints will not be enough, anyways, i doubt u'd have to let any skill u want above lvl 14 to reach 20 with bonuses.

Xzeihoranth · Post by **Xzeihoranth** » Wed May 06, 2009 9:21 am

I don't ever play with more than 2 players so I don't know what to tell you about huge parties.

NOT HAVING TAAR USE GRASPING VINE IS A HUGE MISTAKE.

Grasping Vine IV is the best spell in the game, and not having her use it is just unthinkable.

Ishtarr · Post by **Ishtarr** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:03 pm

I've seen a few questions/remarks in these posts so i'll just add a few tips for party optimisation.

*ALL of your DPS mages should have quickened casting

*1 Healer is all you need. Giving healing hands to your tank is just a waste of 10 precious skill points as the 25% effectiveness won't be much.

*You chose to roll mage??? Well obviously you're going to run out of mana. You can't expect to be Sir Spammalot at level 20(Without mana potions). A warrior also runs out of health too you know...

*A DW/CM? It's not going to work. Firstly...no CM should be in melee range on purpose, you'll just fall down in a few seconds. Secondly, your damage is going to be considerably lower with a decreased mana pool than that of a pure CM. Spending skill points in both fields will make you even weaker.

*Chant of Stone? In my opinion this skill was designed for mage survivabilty rather than melee. It's based off inteligence, so your return will be rather lower. I better combination would be repulsion. 20% more armor without any points. 12 In weapon enchantment and it's 40%.

*Grasping Vines. This is the most powerful spell in the game, and with no immunities/healed by it's a assest to any team. It only requires skill points in quickened casting and aquatic affinity to be effective, leaving you with a large selection of variations. Ice < Grasping Vines.

*Survival. I'd only really spend points here if you've got a bit to spare. I usually stick to +20% at most.