Change in Tactics

Xzeihoranth · Post by **Xzeihoranth** » Sat May 09, 2009 9:24 pm

When I first started DS2 (and for almost all my RPG's involving multiple character control) my main is a tank. I have run through with a few other types but I don't like the weakness against bosses or constantly drawing aggro on a non-tank (i HATE that).

And for anyone who has taken a combat mage into a Zaramoth Reborn fight, how long did he/she last before DEAD?

I love tanks. And if you go the way of a damage tank (Whirling Strike/Brutal Attack) they you have to lead with your tank to draw aggro. This is impossible with a combat mage because combat mages only run at half potential if they don't have a badass curse on auto-cast (drown/infect FTW). Instant Combat Mage aggro, very fast unconscious, very irritated me because Taar loses some valuable mana on those bomb healing spells. Only other tactic is the Summon Provoke (which until you have maxed CM skills and leveled Nature Magic on your CM to get the necessary NM skills, only your NM will have Provoke).

That takes away 2 of the best powers in the game: Invincibility and Aether Blast (Aether Blast with 2% mana steal can completely recover a mages mana BY THE WAY), so Summon Provoke is out of the question. Normally I would just say "o well" and not have a combat mage, as I enjoy small 1-3 player parties anyways. This time i took Finala and made her my lightning mage. I debated how to go about implementing Drown, whether to level CM to 18 on my tank (which I did, lost about 1/2 level of XP off melee at level 40) and the -resists was OK (not great) but the damage was of course minimal at around 3-5 for level 40 monsters.

I threw drown on Finala and sure enough instant aggro, followed by many unconscious Finala's. First time ever I threw on Provoke on my tank and I gotta say I like it, and it works quite well. Of course bosses are Brutal Attack, but with my level 40 Eva dealing 600-900 Elemental Rage damage PER SWING, Lesser Grasping Vine dealing 1k damage and Lightning Call (the double hit lighting from above) Dealing 700+drown dealing 74/sec, my damage is probably even higher than if I didn't use provoke, because Finala is conscious and Taar keeps her mana (both have bomb mana steal for HIGH MANA spells.) 4 man party, main, taar, finala, eva.

Is this how you play your tanks and combat mages?

flix · Post by **flix** » Sun May 10, 2009 3:08 pm

I didn't use any kind of provoke in Mercenary. I had one of each major class as my four characters, and my melee char was a dual wielder. My combat mage fell many, many times. But when I got to Veteran, the next char I added was a proper tank, with shield, high armor rating and defense, and the Provoke power. For the end-game party I added another combat mage, just for the sheer damage.

I don't see why you say that using Summon Provoke means you can't use Aether Blast - the two powers complement each other perfectly, and they share some of the same skills.

Xzeihoranth · Post by **Xzeihoranth** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:51 pm

Because once you use a power it has to recharge lol.
Let's say you use summon provoke (merc/vet), by the time it has recharged there is no point in Aether Blast because either everything is dead or less than 1/3 life...serious setback considering you would be wasting anywhere from 50-90% of Aether Blast damage.

Elite mode powers recharge MUCH more quickly, so a quick Summon Provoke and switch would work...but at that level you have already gotten your CM to nature magic level 24 or 36 (depending on how necessary the level 36 nature magic skills are to you) and Summon Provoke would be available on your CM.

Maybe it is just me, but walking around with main, eva, taar and finala, DPS is ridiculous. Let me put it this way, the Archmage went from 90,000 life to 25,000 in the time it took for Elemental Rage to be used ONCE.

He has time to cast 2 spells, and can't ever imbue a stone and have enough time for it to fire once.

I'm currently at Valdis doin some runs to get better equipment (North Keep hopefully)

flix · Post by **flix** » Sun May 10, 2009 6:43 pm

I always felt Summon Provoke recharged more than quickly enough to switch to Aether Blast. It's also so incredibly powerful - Aranna Legacy mod allows multiple summons so Aether Blast is the most devastating power in the game.

But if you can kill as quickly as you say why even worry about aggro on your Combat Mage?

Xzeihoranth · Post by **Xzeihoranth** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:29 pm

[...]
Combat Mages drop...ridiculous fast..it takes like 3 hits to take down a combat mage, it shouldn't need any explaining. I have Finala auto-casting Corpse Transmutation, adding like 60 armor. Still drops in 2 hits from a mini-boss.

And I don't use add ons so the Aranna Legacy mod is out of the question. [...]

Typically 1 Provoke last the entirety of a battle on any scale, if 20-25 monster mob, then either Aether Blast or the huge Lightning AoE blast power right on top of my aggro'ed tank=all things dead.

Finala doesn't ever get hit.

flix · Post by **flix** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:37 pm

Yeah, that's true. Then again, it seemed like a no-brainer that you would need some form of Provoke after Mercenary to keep your CM's standing - and by that point you can have one melee dedicated to damage and another for tanking and defense.

Summon Provoke should be on a Nature mage's powers quick bar regardless of whether it's used, because of the quick recharge. My Taar uses Summon Provoke, Aether Blast, Invincibility, and Icicle Blast. I don't actually USE SP that much, except for when the enemies are attacking from the rear and are too far away from my tank. And also during the surgeon fights, when those monsters come out of the ground and heal the surgeon.

And I don't use add ons so the Aranna Legacy mod is out of the question.

I recommend it if you're playing Broken World. It fixes some broken Fist of Stone and Blood Assassin skills. It's more like a fixpack that mutated into a mod. It also makes enemies really tough, so one has to pull out all the stops to survive.

Xzeihoranth · Post by **Xzeihoranth** » Wed May 13, 2009 8:48 pm

I went through DS2/BW once and got to level 100, and played a ton before that group of characters, and haven't ever once used Summon Provoke lol.

I don't let monsters come from behind, and if you have a tank attacking something on screen, it draws aggro. Usually if something slips by it takes 2 swings at a mage and I either use a power before the attacks (summon/tank must just always be in the right place for me) or let Taar eat em up..she won't drop like Finala. Summons tend to wait for movement..then after a few steps they react...so they are always near or on top of my mages, so Aether Blast is godly to protect them, and i also use it to recover mana.

And those bugfixes sound intriuging...my FoS/BA skills never really worked properly...My bloodsoaked shots would inflict self-damage but not increase damage, and the +strength, armor skill for FoS did...nothing...If my BW disk worked I may use that.

Anyways...just passed Vet Giant Trilisk...2 Elemental Rage's and the 3 heads dropped...I love duel-wielders.

700 Armor for tank at level 50...and I still have crappy Lorethal's armor and boots.

Accy · Post by **Accy** » Sat May 16, 2009 11:22 pm

personally i dislike taking a CM anywhere unless i have a properly spec'd/gear'd tank holding everything's attention :laugh: and if this is your first experience with "sword and board" tanking xen might i suggest ranged 1 for dodge. every hit you don't take is less hp you have to steal back and more importantly, a heal your NM doesn't have to cast

To answer your question, provoke early, provoke often, and watch your CM blow up the world :mischief:

Ishtarr · Post by **Ishtarr** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:28 am

Rather stick to a provoke tank, sure you'll lose some extra damage which i doubt was massive, but your CM will most likely live longer, and the longer she lives the longer she can do damage.

kricius · Post by **kricius** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:00 am

Or...

Or u can build a party without a CM.

I've started a party in BW with 2 FoS (main char is a woman Berserker FoS and Lothar is a Tank) and Taar as a dual class mage NM/CM.

It's still pretty hard 'cause I don't have good equipments and slow power recharge rate. But once I start to get enchantable rings and stuff, I'm pretty sure it will be soooo killer.

But i also have a lvl 70 pty with FoS, BA, NM and CM and my CM hardly ever fall. Health steal + mana steal + fast power recovery + points in that FoS skill that adds armor and health + resistances from equipments and Spirit Embrace. I just defeated the 3 Dark Wizards and actually the only char who fell unconscious or died was my BA, 'cause she's a treasure finder (885% MF chance and still boosting), meaning she doesn't have jewelry giving armor or resistances (she still has 0% death magic resistance WTH :laugh

.

Ishtarr · Post by **Ishtarr** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:33 pm

The 3 wizards are kinda easy, you basically just run and shoot. Mimics and zaramoth reborn on mercenary have been my only issue.

As for CMs, i usually only run them at higher levels with good gear - basically using repulsion with 12 in BA improved enchantment skill along with 20 in Chant of Stone. I got to 100 easily without CMs, and find that a grasping vines NM to have the highest amount of damage - that being the reason i'm training my 3 CMs in nature magic.