This forum is to be used for all discussions pertaining to Obsidian Entertainment's Neverwinter Nights 2, the Mask of the Betrayer expansion pack, the Storm of Zehir expansion pack, and the Mysteries of Westgate adventure pack.
a friend of mine has recently started playing the OC, and as he really wants to make a good half-orc monk he asked me for a few tips..thing is, I don't really know what to tell him to do. How to spend his skill points and whether he should focus on dexterity or strength..or wisdom. What would be the wisest thing to do?
also, he said that his orc's AC bonus didn't went up when levelling up(my strong heart halfling's AC went up every level ), but that could be down to the fact that he has only 14+ dexterity..but then again he does have 16+ in wisdom..has it got something to do with the first few levels?
the half orc has an improved strength, so he can spend a few points there, but not as much as a human monk would do. Create a dex and wis of 14/15 then you'll get a +4 AC bonus. Cha and Int are not very important, but don't forget to spend points in Con (14,15,or 16 will do), that's very important.
Revan1993 wrote:the half orc has an improved strength, so he can spend a few points there, but not as much as a human monk would do. Create a dex and wis of 14/15 then you'll get a +4 AC bonus. Cha and Int are not very important, but don't forget to spend points in Con (14,15,or 16 will do), that's very important.
cheers, he just send me the stats which are just about what you recommend:
16 strength
16 dexterity
14 constitution
14 wisdomw
8 intelligence
8 charisma..
should do the job then, right?
IMHO, a good party would be Elanee, as a support and healer, though with shapeshift she could be a good tanker too. Khelgar for melee damage and as a tank. Sand or Qara for magic damage. And Neeshka for the skills. If you don't require a rogue, then go with either Zhjaeve or Ammon Jerro to further boost your party's damage. Zhjaeve would be the better pick as Cleric spells can literally rip apart the undead.
Love is just a chemical. We give it meaning by choice ~ Eleanor Lamb, Bioshock 2: Sea of Dreams
A couple more ideas... Take "Weapon Finesse" early, and Dexterity is by far the most important stat for a Monk. The starting stats you mentioned below look great. From here on out put everything into Dexterity. You're choice of party looks good except that Qara is way more powerful than Sand, and Zhaeve is better than Elanee.
Now... if you happen to have SOZ, you should really be going with a Grey Orc. I've attached some good leveling info to follow below. Just keep in mind that you won't get past level 20 until you play MOB, so you may want to mix it up to max out your power at level 20 (Monk-12,Cleric-2,SF-6).
Monk(20), Cleric(2), Sacred Fist(8)
Race: Gray Orc
Cleric Domains: Earth, Good
Alignment: Any lawful
Deity: Eldath
Important Skills: Lore (8), Tumble (15), Diplomacy (for game enjoyability), Spellcraft (for spell defence).
wow cheers..you've put a lot of work into that, much appreciated.
unfortunately I have neither of those expantion packs but I'll definetly keep it in mind if I get either of'em.
arryjan wrote:wow cheers..you've put a lot of work into that, much appreciated.
unfortunately I have neither of those expantion packs but I'll definetly keep it in mind if I get either of'em.
Plus, it's a 30 level build and the OC is a max of 20.
BTW, chances are that IF he isn't seeing an increase in AC as he levels then it's due to wearing armor. ..i.e. REMOVE IT.
In the OC a Monk should focus on Strength and NOT Dexterity - to improve damage per attack (along with AB). This means you do not need Weapon Finesse. Strength will also help with the Monk's Knockdown feat at class level 6. (..make sure he has moved the feat from the character sheet onto a "quick-slot" button for use.) (..Forget Circle Kick as well.)
Take (feats in order):
1s level Power Attack,
3rd level Cleave,
6th level Blind Fight,
9th level Great Cleave,
12th level Improved Critical Unarmed Strike.
..(up to you for the rest.)
Skills: Heal (for healing kit use) though it will cost you double the points, Hide & Move Silently (for occasional stealth which works well with Knockdown and Stunning Fist), ans Spot and/or Listen, and finally Tumble. For the OC I'd say Heal, Spot, and Tumble are the most important.
Attribute modifiers (items): Strength (what ever items), and Wisdom (peripat of wisdom/necklace).
arryjan wrote:so strength over dexterity eh?can the same be said if I was to take another race as a monk, like the halfling or half elf?
Neither of those races have a Strength bonus.. but as long as it doesn't have a Strength penalty, then yes. (..which would leave-out the Halfling because it *does* have a penalty to Strength.)
Each race will turn-out to be a bit different depending on how you want to build the character.
A Wood Elf (if you have that to select), has a Strength and Dexterity bonus. For that race it might be 18 Str. 16 Dex. 12 Con... etc..
The most common for the Monk class is Human with fairly "even" attributes hovering around 14 (with 16 for Strength and potentially Wisdom), with the additional feat at 1st level and the additional skill point per level.
Frankly, as long as it's a pure Monk build, then the Half-Orc as suggested is good.
The reason people automatically suggest a Dexterity-based build is for the additional AC, because Monk's can't wear armor. However there are AC enhancing items, Dex. enhancing items, Wisdom enhancing items, etc.. all of which will add to the character's AC (..not to mention every 10 points in Tumble). So with the exception of the first 3rd of the game - a Monk's AC can be pretty good and can ultimately boarder on excellent even without a Dexterity-based build.
Most importantly however is having a good stock of Healing Kits (..which do NOT incur attacks of opportunity when used during battle), and a modest Heal skill. It makes up for your un-spectacular AC.
BTW, I should have also mentioned that, (depending on what you want to get out of your first game in the OC), Diplomacy should *also* be selected if possible. I probably wouldn't for this "go-through" though with a Monk. The next time you/(whomever) play it you can go for something more sophisticated (like a Sorcerer 19/Palemaster 1 with the feat Able Learner) ..that has Diplomacy as part of it's build structure. (..which plays quite differently.)
scott; why have you included cleave and greater cleave?surely an unarmed strike monk has no use for those feats?I was at least under the impression that you needed to wield a melee weapon to have any use for those 2
also; I see that you haven't included dodge and mobility there..wouldn't the orc monk become very slow and vulnerable to attacks that way?
arryjan wrote:scott; why have you included cleave and greater cleave?surely an unarmed strike monk has no use for those feats?I was at least under the impression that you needed to wield a melee weapon to have any use for those 2
also; I see that you haven't included dodge and mobility there..wouldn't the orc monk become very slow and vulnerable to attacks that way?
Cleave and Great Cleave are probably the most important feats for any melee'er, (..and a Monk is a melee'er).
These feats give you extra attacks when fighting multiple opponents. MANY of the fights in NWN's (all modules), are fights against multiple opponents. In fact I'd argue that MOST fights are against multiple opponents.
(..the numbers on the Cleaves don't look that good, but in practice they are often excellent. This is largely due to support from other characters, where they have cut-down most of the hit-points per opponent surrounding the Monk, and then the Monk comes in and makes kill after kill the next round.)
Dodge & Mobility, are mostly there for Spring Attack, or as prerequisites for Prestige classes.
Dodge gives you a +1 AC for the feat. Does that sound like a fair trade to you? (..it's a bit like selling Manhattan Island for a handful of beads.)
Mobility gives you a +4 AC ONLY to *attacks of opportunity*. You should not be exposing your character to attacks of opportunity.
A basic un-written rule of NWN's is that there are 3 things that are difficult to come by in this game (..in order):
1. Attack numbers,
2. Additional attacks (particularly at higher attack numbers), and
3. Additional damage. (..actually this is easy to come-by, its just that most players expect a LOT of it, and that is more difficult to obtain.)
Note that AC is conspicuously absent from this list.
The Monk class gives you #2, basically in trade for #1. (Flurry of Blows gives you additional attack(s) AND at your highest attack number, but the Monk class is only a medium BAB class.) The Monk class also gives you #3, at least progressively (through increasing unarmed attack damage). You can compare the progressions:
Basically a Fighter "peaks" early in it's build and relies on enchantments to improve. A Monk keeps getting better and better, AND has a few additional perks as the build progresses, BUT it isn't very good early-on.
aha ok..well that makes sense then..how about other useful feats?should he add feats like greater fortitude, iron will weapon finess/focus?
thanks for all the data and info btw, must have been hard work
arryjan wrote:aha ok..well that makes sense then..how about other useful feats?should he add feats like greater fortitude, iron will weapon finess/focus?
thanks for all the data and info btw, must have been hard work
It's up to you, BUT you only have 2 more feats to choose: at level 15 and 18.
With what I know about the end battle ..probably:
15: Weapon Focus Unarmed Attack,
18: Improved Power Attack EDIT: WRONG - it doesn't work with Flurry of Blows.
With both feats at level 18 that will give you the ability to add +6 to damage with a net -5 to attack. Good for killing low AC mobs - something I'd want for the end battle.
BTW, make sure you get to level 20 before the end battle (..by completing just about every quest possible). That damage reduction at Monk level 20 should come in *real* handy.
Scott G. I'm curious as to why you would take a high attack over a high AC in the OC, or any other campain for that matter. In my experiance, you spend a lot less time and money on healing if you make your melee characters as untouchable as possible. I've fought with builds that had deadly attacks, but because I sacraficed AC to get them there, I had a hard time keeping them alive. On the flip side, I've had builds with very low attacks, but because they couldn't be hit, they eventually made it out of the fight virtually unscathed. For that reason I always look for ways to beef up my AC at the Expense of attack. The great thing about weapon finesse and dexterity is that you can do both at the same time, where the only sacrifice is attack power. If you're weapon is sufficiently enhanced that shouldn't be a problem either.
well my friend's half orc does have a good dexterity & wisdowm score:
both are set at 15, with strength now at 18..that should give him the AC bonus.right?but he did ask me why he should have both power attack and flurry of blows since you can't use them at the same time both.
), but that could be down to the fact that he has only 14+ dexterity..but then again he does have 16+ in wisdom..has it got something to do with the first few levels?
