Damage Issues in Oblivion?

Gallileo · Post by **Gallileo** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:39 pm

I'm playing a high level warrior armed with a silver claymore, I've finished the Oblivion main quest and KOTN and I'm starting SI. All through the game I've found it far more difficult to kill enemies no matter how strong I got or how good my long blade skill became.

In Morrowind GOTY by this stage my character could wipe out any enemies, so what's the problem here? Is it something I'm doing or is it just the way they made Oblivion to stop characters from becoming too powerful?

Loki[D.d.G] · Post by **Loki[D.d.G]** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:21 pm

Are you aware that Oblivion employs level scaling?

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:22 pm

Gallileo wrote:I'm playing a high level warrior armed with a silver claymore, I've finished the Oblivion main quest and KOTN and I'm starting SI. All through the game I've found it far more difficult to kill enemies no matter how strong I got or how good my long blade skill became.

In Morrowind GOTY by this stage my character could wipe out any enemies, so what's the problem here? Is it something I'm doing or is it just the way they made Oblivion to stop characters from becoming too powerful?

What Loki said. While there are some enemies in Morrowind who scale to your level, many don't. That's not the case in Oblivion. Nearly all foes scale along with you, and due to the way it was implemented, they actually get better than you do. Some early players noted that you could win the game much more handily at level 0 with some careful management than at level 20, as a result.

Gallileo · Post by **Gallileo** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:32 pm

Bugger. Well is there any cheat or mod I can use to prevent this from occuring? I hate hacking away at the same enemy for 10 minutes? Personally I had far more fun and got far more enjoyment out of Morrowind/Tribunal/Bloodmoon than Oblivion/Knights of the 9/Shivering Isles.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:38 pm

There are numerous overhaul mods, and some stand alone mods that specifically address level scaling.
I've had more experience with the complete overhaul mods and would readily suggest either Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul or Francesco's Leveled Creatures and Items Mod.

I think Fable knows a bit more about the stand-alone mods.

Bear in mind that you shouldn't use more than one mod to deal with this particular problem, otherwise you'll get conflicts and really bugger up your game.

And yes.... many people here will second your assertion that MW is the superior game...

Loki[D.d.G] · Post by **Loki[D.d.G]** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:42 pm

You could download a mod such as [url="http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2518"]Francesco's mod.[/url] It pretty much stops level scaling, but doesn't eliminate the challenge of tough opponents altogether.

Gallileo · Post by **Gallileo** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:43 pm

Thanks for the help Dragon Wench now hopefully Fable can recommend some mods or cheats to help remedy this I can play through the rest of SI and finish this game lol.

Gallileo · Post by **Gallileo** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:51 pm

Francesco's mod looks huge and I don't really want any big alterations, I'm happy with the stock game except for these enemies, they're driving me crazy, I was doing the SI where I have to get a cure from some tree root place and the enemies inside swarmed me and were kicking my ass I had to run the whole quest. Are there any simpler mods that will stop only enemy levelling?

Loki[D.d.G] · Post by **Loki[D.d.G]** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:10 am

Gallileo wrote:Are there any simpler mods that will stop only enemy levelling?

None that I am aware of. By the way, OOO is also similar in size. And these two are the only mods I know of that stops enemy level scaling.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:03 am

I should point out that neither OOO or Francesco's mod actually tackle the level scaling problem, they simply replace Bethesda's level scaling with their own. They both randomise the level scaling somewhat, which can make the game a lot worse in fact.

Getting attacked by level 24 monsters on the main road when you're only 2nd level can be a tad annoying. It can also be rather amusing when you're fleeing from said monster and find half of the citizens of Cyrodil lying dead in it's wake! OK a bit of an exaggeration, but just yesterday I stumbled across three dead citizens who'd just been slain in such a way, I had to run like hell to Cheydinhall to escape it, only to have to watch it dispatch another citizen and the town guard. I then had to leg it back towards the IC. Fortunately two more Legionnaires were coming up the road and managed to finish it off!

Be warned, OOO can make the game more fun, and interesting, but it doesn't stop the leveling problem.

Gallileo · Post by **Gallileo** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:10 am

So what you're all telling me is that for me personally the gaming experience will suck lol. Ah well I appreciate the help sincerely even though I got nowhere, I'll just go out and buy Morrowind GOTY edition for PC and hope it works on Vista once I finish Oblivion GOTY.

I've already clocked Morrowind GOTY a number of times on Xbox but would rather it on PC

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:11 am

As I said in my last post, the mods do make the game more fun and interesting, despite getting some things wrong. There are faults within the game that the mods can't address, which seems to be the problem you're encountering.

As an example: Unlike Morrowind, having blade as a major. and then trying to hack your way through the game will expose the flaws of Oblivion rather obviously. As has been pointed out, you will level up too quickly, and in Oblivion the only ones who actuall get more powerful when you level up are your opponents.

The key to power in Oblivion are your skills, not your level. Sadly, illogical as it may be, your better off not having blade as a major if that's your weapon of choice. That way as you get better with he blade, without leveling up you actually do become more powerful than the enemy. It can take some getting used to the reverse logic approach to gaining power in Oblivion, but put skills you hardly ever use as majors (preferably ones you can improve at will) and you'll quickly find you are as powerful as you wnt to be.

SupaCat · Post by **SupaCat** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:05 am

I would really suggest playing OOO, not because I think it's superior in comparison to Fran., but I think you can actually take your current save game and implent OOO without restarting your entire game, while with fran. you'll need to start a fresh game.

OOO also makes Oblivion worth the buy.

And yes, morrowind is better in so many ways.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:24 am

I'm not sure I'd recommend OOO to a beginner to be honest. It can make the early part of the game extrememly difficult in my experience. I've used Fran's mod for some time, tried OOO once before but ran into technical difficulties.

I've been trying it again over the last few days, and it really is unbalanced. After the encounter I related to before I went on my merry way to find Martin, got to the point on the Skingrad road (just after the Aylid ruin) where you normally encounter an imp or two and all hell was breaking loose. There was another unfortunate citizen lying dead in the road, and a Legion patrol in the process of dieing, being set upon (as I later found out) by two ordinary imps, two crazed imps and a mystical imp. I'm a mere fourth level, but have mnaged to get Frostcrag Spire up and running with, crucially, the spell alter functioning, so was able, eventually, to take the imps down. Any new player, or I suspect anyone with a fighter type character would not have stood a chance. Have got passed Skingrad now, and just arrived at Kvatch. Found two more dead legionaries en route, and after talking to Matius three Hell hounds appeared and slaughtered everyone in sight! I'm off to reload and try again, I'm very close to uninstalling OOO at this point though.

SupaCat · Post by **SupaCat** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:33 am

I get your point (even though the things you mention are what I really like about the mod), but to get a decent scaling system while already in game, OOO is the only way I know to get it.

In reference to Galreans story: when I was around level 10, I decided to do the deadric quest with the unicorn... Couldn't kill it myself, so I brought it to the waterfont... It killed everyone! (that's one though horse [in OOO anyway])

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:26 pm

OOO is deliberately unbalanced, and to be fair, he admits as much up front. The philosophy behind its design was to get rid of the "oh, I know if I go in that dirty big cave I'll encounter creatures that are from one level below to three levels above me" feel. I seem to recall him stating that he wanted to reproduce something of the sense you had in the Might and Magic series of never being sure what level of foe you were going to find in a new area until you got there. Everything is moved around.

I personally don't like it, but others do, and they're just as right as I am. I do use Francesco's, which adds to the variety of monsters, but keeps them in pretty much the same areas. It also changes the leveling of some, but keeps them more static than in the game: they'll be what you see now, when you come back three levels later. I also like his configuration that makes all enemy AI smarter. They can really give you a workout, now. And if you take along companions, just ramp up the difficulty a notch. You'll find yourself very challenged.

This is from Francesco's readme:

ne of the strengths of the mod is it's modular nature.. every part of the mod is optional and you are able to customize it to your taste during the installation. Stunning in-game customizanbility is also provided giving the ability to adjust nearly every aspect of the mod.

Using this part of the mod, while some guards still level up with you, many of them will stop at about levels 15-25. Stronger guards will usually defend more important places/people), vendors (you used to find chainmail/dwarven mithril/orcish armors and weapons in creatures/npcs loot before seeing their appearance in shops, this made armor/weapons vendors nearly useless after reaching level 6-7, now you will find those stuff in shops many levels before but at increased prices), new unique enemies/bosses (a small chance to find stronger unique bosses with names and personalized combat styles/loot), more enemies (more creatures/npcs in dungeons, aviable in three variants) houses/dungeons chests (improved, more interesting, diverse and often more rewarding but still balanced loot)...

Well, you get the idea.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:49 pm

Yeah, got the idea, I liked Francescos, just wanted to give OOO a good try out. Nothing wrong with the basic concept you referred to Fable, introducing the unexpected is a cool idea, but give the poor noob mug a chance to get her or his feet wet first!

Just finished Kvatch, got the naff armour and delivered Martin to Weynon Priory, dumped him there, now off to explore the wide world. (I dumped him there so gates don't open at a ridiculous rate)

Point of interest regarding OOO and magic. Some things have been nerfed, such as no longer being able to use Drain Health when making spells. The biggest difference though seems to be the impact armour has on your spell casting. I only remember it knocking your effectiveness down to 85% at most in vanilla Oblivion, in OOO it's a lot more. At skill level 25 in Heavy or Light armour my effectiveness was down to under 70%, so if you're going mage with OOO, definitely leave that armour home.

I also notice that weapon damage seems to be increased, I don't know if that's just my perception or if Oscuro really has cranked up weapon damage, I haven't explored the .ESP much yet. If the original poster's main concern was not doing enough damage with his weapons, then OOO may be the way to go, just save often, very often, you don't know what may be round the next bend, although on most roads it could well be a dead legion patrol!

Gallileo · Post by **Gallileo** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:22 pm

I'm not really a noob to Oblivion or having a modded game (you should see my Star Trek Bridge Commander, it's barely recognisable) I've clocked Morrowind GOTY a number of times and I've completed Oblivion before on a crappy PC, I've played through it again because I got the GOTY edition and a laptop that can run the game on maxed out graphics

That said though I'll leave the game stock, complete it, then buy Morrowind GOTY on PC.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:50 am

What's the difference between GOTY editions and 'normal' editions, (which I have of both)?

Loki[D.d.G] · Post by **Loki[D.d.G]** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:02 am

The GOTY edition includes both the Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine expansions for Oblivion. Dunno about other additional content though.