Advice playing anti-paladin from Tactics Mod

Indra · Post by **Indra** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 9:36 am

I've recently installed the following mods for my 15th restart of SOA/TOB (3rd play through) as I was getting bored to hell otherwise:

1) Tactics Mod (No Imp. Illych, No Acid Kensai, everything else.)
2) Tashia
3) Sola? (Maybe..)

Has anyone played the Anti-Paladin Kit from the Tactics Mod? I've created an anti-paladin with (15Str,17Dex,13Con,17Int,13Wis,17Char) and am thinking of dualling him either to Mage/Thief...Should I leave him as a pure Anti-Paladin or dual at Lvl12?. I'm also trying to understand what an anti-paladin believes in. What would a LE anti-paladin do
when:

1) Aataqah (the Genie in the Pool room in Irenicus Prison) asks him the question about the mage, cages and buttons? Would he press the button and sacrifice himself for Imeon or not?
2) Would he save the Children in the Slaver quest? (Korgan who's CE finds slaving Children disgusting..what would a LE anti-paladin think?)
3) Would he side with Firkraag against Windspear or Kill Firkraag for manipulating him?
4) Take the Cloak of Fear or rely on his abilities and refuse the Cloak?
5) Would he side with Bodhi? Specially when he knows she might betray him? (He dosen't, I do. Still...)

Weapons: (Longswords, 2 Handed Swords

1) The most natural weapons for an anti-paladin are: a) Adjatha the Drinker b)Blackrazor c) Neb's Nasty Cutter. Any others?
2) However, would he use Daystar? Does he enjoy the fact that a Blade designed for a Paladin is used by one like him? Or would he refuse the blade?
3) Would he use Holy Avenger if Dualled to Thief and get's UAI?

I think playing an anti-paladin is as hard if not harder than playing a Paladin. Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated...and I still cannot believe that I'm becoming a role player..

..Thanks..

TGM · Post by **TGM** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 10:32 am

As I understand it, the Anti-Paladin (Lawful Evil Alignment) believes in a strict set of rules, much as the normal Paladin, however these rules are based on an evil God's tennets, seeing as there are is a reasonable range of different ways of being 'Evil' it is up to you to decide upon the set of rules you wish to follow.

From My POV, the answers to your questions are:
1) Yes, there is a good arguement for sacrificing yourself if you believe in the cause, and this could be your sibling.

2) Again, depends on wether you believe in slavery and wether you think your character would care about slavery. Although I think it it reasonable to punish those responsible.

3) I Don't like the idea of being manipulated by Firkraag, so I think there is a good arguement for killing him because of what he is trying to do to [CHARNAME], not what he does to Garren Windspear, a person you would probabally not care about.

4) It may not matter you your character that the cloak is made from Nymph's Skin, but you may feel that you do not need it's assistance to complete the task. I forget which of the sins this task relates to, but as an Anti-Paladin, you most likely will not show Pride, Greed, Selfishness, etc. So you could argue that taking the traditionally 'good' route through all the tasks is the correct one, even though the character sheet says you are Evil.

5) Bhodi, I think is personal preference, it depends on wether you wish to side with a collection of thieves or a collection of Vampires, I would guess Bhodi may be a more realistic option, as thieves are not renowned for being overly lawful, and the general philosophy of a thief is fairly well opposed to that which an (Anti)Paladin tries to be.

Which level you dual at depends on wether you have ToB, and exactly what you want from your character, dualling at level 9 (I think) allows you to reach the XP cap as a mage afterwards, however dualling at 13 (I think) grants the best set of boni in number of attacks, etc.

Weapons:
Neb's Nasty Cutter sounds unlikely to me, it's too small and underhand.

I'm not sure on Daystar, it does extra damage agsinst and undead, which is OK but although it is seen as the weapon of a 'Good' Person.

I don't think an AP/Thief is a good combo, from a RP'ing perspective, as their ethos' are two different. Also, why bother with Carsomyr, it has two good abilities, 50%MR and Dispel on Hit, AP gets dispel on hit anyway, so why not use something more exciting, like Axe of the Unyeilding, CF or Crom Feyr, unfortunatly if you want to use 2H swords (possibly the coolest weapon for a Paladin) the only good one that is available early in the game is Carsomyr.

AP/Mage sounds like a good, more realistic option, although from a RP standpoint, you could argue that Paladins should only ever be single class, and so should AP's, Weimer only made the AP a subset of fighter, because of the fallen status thing, so in reality you should not be able to create an AP dual or multi. Having said this, I think AP/Mage is a great combo, and it works well.

BTW: I can reccommend II and Acid Kensi as some of the best parts of the tactics mod.

Hope this helps

TGM.

Indra · Post by **Indra** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:26 pm

TGM,
Thank you for the detailed reply. It does answer many of my questions, most to my satisfaction..I've been looking at my 3rd Ed Forgotten Realms Campaign setting manual for the Pantheon of Dieties. Wanted to find one that fit my char- Bane & Cyric are both too Crazy and evil for my taste, so definitely not..However:

Mask (NE) : A paladin of Mask? Could probably be dual-classed to Thief (Assasin) - since the philosophy is to engage silently and in darkness. Bluff, Diplomacy, Trickery - all qualities which can be used in BGII to avoid needless bloodshed/confrontation. Surely interesing..He would definitely go with the Shadow Thiefs. Reason
enough to want to wipe out a nest of Vampires..

Shar (NE) : Oh, no, not another acolyte of Shar! I know..but could be dual-classed to Mage ..If a paladin of Mystra could become a mage, a Paladin of Shar could be well versed in the Shadow Weave..Besides, he's a Paladin who really fits very well with a certain hot dark elf...and he believes in guile when the occasion demands..
I'll look for the D&D Gods manual for more ideas, but these seem to match. Does a paladin of a NE diety become NE or LE?
Searching for alternatives., Talos is well..Talos. Umberlee..I'm not exactly a mariner. The god of Dragons - I forgot his name..I'm a human. Lolth - not a drow. Any other Dieties that match well with the BGII setting?

Regarding the Dual-Classing..I think the Anti-Paladin has gained a bit and lot a bit. As a fighter he can attain Grand Mastery, but you can always stop at 2 stars..He attains levels at a fighters pace, which is one level before Paladins/Rangers. He can be dual classed. On the negatives, he loses Spells, cannot weild the best weapon for a Paladin, and cannot summon Deva...(is that right? I haven't Checked) which for me, forces him to dual.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:35 pm

"1) The most natural weapons for an anti-paladin are: a) Adjatha the Drinker b)Blackrazor c) Neb's Nasty Cutter. Any others?
2) However, would he use Daystar? Does he enjoy the fact that a Blade designed for a Paladin is used by one like him? Or would he refuse the blade?
3) Would he use Holy Avenger if Dualled to Thief and get's UAI? "

mondo spoilers....

if you install the kit, i think, the encounter with the githyanki after the underdark gives you a really nice anti pally weapon, and you should absolutely install item upgrade, as you can corrupt holy avenger in tob with heart of the damned and soul reaver...makes a anti pally supersword, with some killer perks...50% magic resistance!!!!!!!!!!!

an anti pally mage is almost impossibly powerful...think black blade of disaster with dispell magic per hit....urm...i dont know how you feel about cheese, but i am pretty sure if you equipp a off hand weapon, like neb's nasty cutter, and cast energy blades or melf minute meteors, you can get the poison attack at range with off hand hits, and the dispell magic should work at range too...use with impr haste to dispell magic at range with melf, 8 atacks per round...hehhehehehheheheh.....

that dispell magic with meelee hit is incredible....i gave it to my kensai sorc, and its just incredible...i said that, didnt i???

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:38 pm

oh yeah...he gains summon evil deva....whoo hoo....killer killer kit...

TGM · Post by **TGM** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 8:35 am

While I cannot claim to be an authority on all things AP, I was under the (mistaken?) impression that an AP should worsip a lawful deity, I guess LE comes pretty close though.

Similarly, I am not sure about wether a paladin would ever try to be subtle or stealthy, an AP on the other hand...

On the subject of dual classing, I would say that the only advantage of being an Inquisitor over Anti-Paladin is the ablilty to gain 50%MR from Carsomyr, In all other respects, Anti-Paladin is equal to or greater than an Inquisitor. As User correctly points out, there are good anti-paladin weapons available, and I think dual classing to Mage makes a very powerful character, although it is difficult to legitimatly get a good set of stats while still being able do dual.

Sadly, I am not too familiar with 3E rules, although in my opinion, all Paladins should be of Lawful alignment.

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 11:54 am

I tried to play an anti-paladin once, but I found out that I didn't like her at all and had to stop.

From the kit description, anti paladin are cruel persons that like to inflict pain, and hunt down Good magic users.
(Which, on a side note, Imoen happens to be... heh)

They have no requirement to be Lawful. To be evil is the only requirement. And they are actually no paladins at all.
Weimer portrayed them as fighters.

Now, to roleplay a really cruel and evil person is not so easy... for me at least... or at least not fun.

Taking it seriously, I would think...
The enslaved children? Free them to gain experience, money, the loot or whatever, then they are as good as dead. If you're not in the mood of torturing children, I mean.

Firkaag? Who said that evil beings like each other? He tried to frame me. He *will* suffer. And die. And his scales will serve me better than they served him.

The buttons? If I feel I can guess what the other will do, I'll do what serves better to save my life. Otherwise the question is inconsequential.

The Nymph cloak is fine. I like nymph skin. I like human skin even better, expecially if improved with silver ***** dragon blood.

Siding with Bodhi to kill the Shadow Thieves and then kill her too. The only way to make them all suffer, which they deserve. Why ever asking?

And so on...
Too mean, too mean ...

appo13 · Post by **appo13** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:17 am

Do I understand it correctly:

If I duall class the antipala at 13 for example, he will regain his magicdispel aiblitiy, his magic dispell spell and his true sight spell at level 14 of the dualled class????? Isnt that a bit awsome? At all it gives some really new possibilities for my new cheese party! I think dualled to a cleric or mage would be the best.