OC help

rahmen · Post by **rahmen** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:45 pm

Hi

I have been playing NWN2 for a while but I still struggle when it comes to playing my barbarian/fighter/frenzied berserker. I think it´s very boring and I am thinking of rolling a new character, but I still don´t know what class I want. There´s 3 choices:

Some kind of bard with 5 levels of Harper Agent, question is, how do I play a bard? bow/crossbow or melee combat? 1 or 2-weapon style?

Fighter/WM has the whirlwind attack but has some less than ideal feats required for it and the critical hit immune undead makes it less desirable, doesn´t it?

And lastly Hunter/Rogue, Hunter/Wizard/Arcane Archer, pure Ranger, two-weapon style specialization or bow spec?

Lots of questions that I really would like to have answered, somebody surely has tried these combos. I have finished NWN1 quite some time ago so I`m not a beginner player game and ad&d wise but I`m somewhat of a beginner rule-wise.
This mainly is for the OC and perhaps MotB when the time comes (bought it last week).

Thanks,
rahmen

mewp · Post by **mewp** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:31 pm

try incorparating a wizard.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:36 am

If you play a Bard, don't even think about Harper Agent. It only makes you weaker. [url="http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/922154/46584"]This[/url]is a very nice Bard-guide. [url="http://nwn2customcontent.wikidot.com/"]Kaedrin's custom expansion pack[/url] offers a lot more options for all classes and is fully compatible with the OC & MotB.

rahmen · Post by **rahmen** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:52 pm

As I said, I finished the OC in NWN, a while back ago but still, and that was with a paladin, but I don´t want to play one again because it was kind of boring. A bard is in my opinion not a beginner class, neither is a rogue, I might be wrong but...

Any class that you could call a good beginner class? I still am a beginner at this game, as you have might have noticed, really have a hard time deciding anything regarding this game

Anyway, hope I´m not annoying anyone with my whining

Thanks,
rahmen

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:58 pm

I played through the OC for the first time with the help of above Bard guide, and it was fun. I think Bards can be pretty noob-friendly.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:58 pm

If you want a mix of combat and magic, the build I'm currently playing through the OC then MoTB (I'm at the start of Ch.3 of OC at the moment) is a wizard/fighter/eldritch knight/arcane scholar. This build offers a bit of variation as you can hold your own (with the right spells) using magic and nothing more, but can also switch things around and use buffs and become a competant melee build. I use a mixture of both, its just a case of picking the right spells for how you want to play that area.

I am level 14 at the moment (I'm playing a Drow so I'm two levels behind most other races) and I have 5 levels of wizard, 1 level of fighter (this gets the martial weapon feat for free), 5 levels of eldritch knight and 3 levels of arcane scholar. I'm currently just focussing on eldritch knight and then will switch back to just levelling up as a wizard and possibly one more level of fighter. I don't require more than 3 levels of arcane scholar as I just wanted the improved empower spell feat. With this build though, make sure you get the practiced spell caster (wizard feat) as early as you can so your spells don't lack in power as a result of getting the fighter and first level of eldritch knight.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:02 am

There are basically 3 types of characters:

1. Melee or Ranged
2 Spell casters
3. Combinations of 1 & 2. (correction)

The *only* significant deviation from this are trap-setters, and trap-setting is pretty weak in both the OC and MOTB.

A Bard falls under #3.

IMO you should probably go with option #2 for a significantly different "feel" to the game. The fact is that most #3's are usually melee-types, but add-in spell casting for "buffs". Bards ALSO add-in "songs", but bardic song at anything but epic levels operates as more of a spell buff (..rather than any significant offensive capability).

For the OC for you I'd recommend a Sorcerer build. It isn't terribly difficult to play AND it will give a pretty different "feel" for the game. You could also add-in a single level of any other class you want that won't provide spell casting continuation.

My suggestion is a Human Sorcerer with the 1st level as a Rogue. I've got the basics wrapped-up for this build on the NWN2 Builder website, but have yet to finish it for viewing. When I have it finished I'll provide a link.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:24 am

About Bards: Don't forget their Inspirations... A passive +4 (or higher with Kaedrin's Pack and the right feats) to hit & damage for the entire party is very welcome. The second level Bard spell Heroism adds +2 to hit, +2 saves and lasts 10minutes/lvl, which is very long.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:01 am

Scottg wrote:There are basically 3 types of characters:

1. Melee or Ranged
2 Spell casters
3. Combinations of 2 & 3.

IMO you should probably go with option #2 for a significantly different "feel" to the game. The fact is that most #3's are usually melee-types, but add-in spell casting for "buffs". Bards ALSO add-in "songs", but bardic song at anything but epic levels operates as more of a spell buff (..rather than any significant offensive capability).

Another option for 3 is a spellcaster that mainly uses spells, but then switches to melee when there are no more spells left. I play this way usually as it minimises the amount of resting that you have to do when playing a spellcaster class.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:55 am

mr_sir wrote:Another option for 3 is a spellcaster that mainly uses spells, but then switches to melee when there are no more spells left. I play this way usually as it minimises the amount of resting that you have to do when playing a spellcaster class.

That's often a purist wizard or sorcerer utilizing Tenser's and leveraging the EK class. You can crank up the BAB a little higher with the Harper Agent class, but it's expensive feat-wise (and with the EK class you are down a total of 2 non-spell casting levels). Unfortunately the ability to effectively melee is pretty far down a 3-20 level module. Also, it probably isn't worth it - I mean, do what the character does best: magical attacks. (..the real killer for *just* "riding" on the EK class isn't the attack numbers or the damage, but rather the pitiful hitpoints - making it better suited to a ranged attacker.)

The one thing I often see missing from "purist" arcane spell-casters is the feat Craft Wand (..and Scribe Scroll for Sorcerers). Selecting which spells to use for wand crafting and when to use those spells can make a huge difference, enough so that practically speaking you will almost never need to use spells from your spell book. The higher level spells that you think you might need later can be provided via scribed scrolls. It's pretty much a matter of planning and gold.

As an inverse of this Druids and Clerics are also pretty good at spell casting at higher levels, but nearly worthless for anything but a buffed melee character at lower levels.

Then there are Warlocks, which IMO are rather like inverted melee (or actually ranged) characters. There is more variety with them, but at the end of the day they do pretty much the same thing each round. *The* class of choice for MOTB.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:59 am

GawainBS wrote:About Bards: Don't forget their Inspirations... A passive +4 (or higher with Kaedrin's Pack and the right feats) to hit & damage for the entire party is very welcome. The second level Bard spell Heroism adds +2 to hit, +2 saves and lasts 10minutes/lvl, which is very long.

Excellent yes, but it's a "buff".

rahmen · Post by **rahmen** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:48 pm

thanks for answering, you guys might have helped me more than you know.
I´m going to do 1 bard build, sorceror and a warlock one, check out the builder if you have the time and give me some feedback, thanks once again.
Btw, I have the same username over at the builder, so search for that for easier access

rahmen

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:50 pm

If you post a link to your build, I'll check it out. I won't go hunting it down, since I'm a lazy bastard.

rahmen · Post by **rahmen** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:19 pm

Here are the links:

Bard
20 bard | NWN2 Character Builder

Sorceror
20 Sorceror | NWN2 Character Builder

Warlock
20 warlock | NWN2 Character Builder

These are only pure builds, just to have something to go by, can always change it another time

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:23 pm

I'll comment on the Bard build, since I don't know enough about the others.
Don't raise INT over 14. It costs too much and you really don't need all those skills. I use these stats: STR 14, DEX 12, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 15. Feel free to swap DEX & CON. Drop first point at lvl 4 in CHA, rest in STR. Use a two handed weapon. Using Weapon Finesse and only one weapon is pretty weak, since you lack damage.
Swap Weapon Finesse with Power Attack and Combat Casting with Improved Power Attack. The hardest concentration check you'll ever have to make will be 21. (15 for defensively, 6 for highest spell level). Easy to get, especially with some Gloves of Concentration, which you find pretty early. Moreover, most spells you'll cast will be buffs and thus be casted before combat.
Around lvls 7 to 9 you might want to put in a Fighter level, for the bonus feats and medium armour proficiency. If you do that, grab the Battle Caster feat. (Casting in Medium Armour). Note that you can't select this at a Fighter level.
For skills, max Diplomacy, Bluff, Perform, Tumble, Use Magic Device, Lore, Concentration, Spellcraft and Appraise. Tumble, Spellcraft, UMD and Diplomacy are most important, Lore the least, since you add your Bard level to Lore checks anyway.
As for spells, (longterm) buffs are the best choice: Heroism, Greater & Superior Resistance, Haste, Mirror Image, Ghostly Visage. Some offensive gems: Grease, Curse of Impending Blades, Mind Fog.

If you want a DEX based Bard, check the FAQ I posted earlier.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:25 pm

I've almost finished the build.. it's taken awhile.

But it may be useful beyond simply the build itself.

Here it is:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/never ... 16000.html

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:53 am

A question about that Sorcerer build: Why Palemaster and it's half-casting?
I am surprised to learn that Shield gives a deflection bonus (instead of a shield bonus) and that Improved Mage Armour stacks with regular armour. Thanks for clearing this up.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:52 am

Sorcerers "run-out" at level 20.

They don't receive new spells per day to cast, new spells, or new spell levels (though a Wizard doesn't receive the later 2 past 20th level either). They DO receive levels for spell power/duration calculations AND class levels for the purpose of Spell Penetration, bonus feats, and access to Sorcerer epic feats.

On the other hand while a Palemaster receives no new spells per day on their even levels, nor spell level progression - but it does get the add-on class levels for spell penetration and access to Sorcerer epic feats.

Basically the only thing it's missing past level 20 are the bonus feats at epic levels, AND you wouldn't get them anyway because of the expenditure on a full 10 levels of ASoC.

Additionally, it's chosen early on for access to the +2 AC (..with absolutely no penalty for that first level).

At those epic levels all the "perks" of the Palemaster class are essentially *free*.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:12 pm

Still, only half-casting, that means only half increase in caster level. In PnP, I'd make fun of that. But it's NWN, and you know more about that than I do.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:37 pm

GawainBS wrote:Still, only half-casting, that means only half increase in caster level. In PnP, I'd make fun of that. But it's NWN, and you know more about that than I do.

Actually, I'll need to check on the spell power/duration and spell resistance thing of the non-spell levels of the Palemaster. It may need Practiced Spellcaster Sorcerer for this.

It does need Practiced Spellcaster Sorcerer for those even levels of Palemaster. More for Spell Penetration than damage enhancement.