Wise Counsel Needed

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:47 pm

So as some of you may recall, I went through a pretty unpleasant break up a few months ago.

Subsequently, I've moved to a new city, new job, new adventures. I've kept active, training for a marathon, still working with the army, yoga, new friends etc.

I've even had a few dates and some more than friendly encounters.

But, and a big interjection this is, my thoughts always run back to my ex. Distracting me to the point that it is affecting my work and down time. Not in a particularly adverse way, but in a "I'm still sad" kind of way.

Which brings me to the request for counsel. A time honoured tradition of mine here at GB is getting feedback from friendly, anonymous acquaintances.

If I am still this thoroughly in love with the women who broke my heart 4 months ago, do I either
a) Keep trucking and doing what I'm doing and it will fade in time?
b) Try and win her back?
or

c) Seek professional help.

Option a), I confess, has not really been working, but if the judgement here is to keep moving forward, I will.

Option b), on the scale of good idea to bad idea, I imagine falls closer to the bad idea range. It would be hard enough to do from the same city, but I'm a time zone away. That said, there is a certain appeal for me.

Option c) scares me a little bit though I am increasingly considering it might be a wise option. I've always been resilient over things like this, well, over almost everything really, but I keep having to fight these depressing thoughts.

Or d) I suppose, is that this is part of the normal grieving process for loosing something that was once central to your life.

Maybe I should have started a poll.

Anyways, comments, suggestions, anecdotes are all welcome.

PS- I'm aware I should post more often here, it was a new year's resolution, but I've been busy.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:03 pm

COMMrade, look into the mirror and ask yourself this question:

Does she feel the same way too? Does she reciprocate your feelings as well?

If so, go for it and try to win her back.

If not, then why the blue blazes do you still have to linger? Move on, dude. It's no use hanging on if you're shadow-dancing the Tango.

Trust me, been there, done that.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:30 pm

Go with A. If she's interested, she'll get back in touch with you--after all, she initiated the breakup. She knows this, and she knows it's up to her to attempt to put things back together, if she wants to.

As for professional help, I doubt you need it. After all, it's only been a few months, after a relationship that lasted quite a long time and proved pretty deep. If you weren't still having some problems, I'd wonder what sort of shallow, callow youth you were.

So you've met some new women? Good. Now open yourself up to the possibility of new relationships. It'll take time, but that's the way to go.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:37 pm

I should have known you two would be the first to respond, and with solid advice too.

Also, did anyone else not fable's typo!?

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:11 pm

Obsidian, I can only give you the perspective of a woman who's been somebody's "one" and initiated a breakup. In that I mean unless she was a serious drama queen, and it sounds like she probably was not, then the end of the relationship was final to her.

I say this with a specific case in my life in mind. I didn't talk to my ex for over a year, but as of a few weeks ago I got in contact with him to "clear the air" I guess. During that time he confessed that he'd languished over the breakup even as he got into a serious relationship with another young lady, and that shocked me so much I decided it was best we not get together again.

I don't want to sound unkind, but in all truths it's better to just move on. I can almost promise you that contacting her would be, at the very least, uncomfortable for both sides. It may seem like this great idea, but that sort of thing only works in movies. God forbid she's in a new relationship herself: an old boyfriend popping up out of nowhere has the potential to cause major issues.

If you feel that the depression is persisting to the point where you need outside assistance, then do so. There's nothing I can say that will adequately describe how much professional help can improve your life. Even if it seems like just a small cloud hanging over head, there's no point in living miserably.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:04 pm

My own experiences make me think that trying to go back to a previous relationship is generally a bad idea. It's normal to feel down about things sometimes. Like fable said, if you invest a lot of time and commitment to something and it doesn't work then it takes a while to deal with that. It also takes a awhile to simply get used to being single again. One of the hardest parts of getting over a relationship to me has always been having to readjust to being single again. A lot of times, some of the things you might think you miss about a specific person might actually be things you miss about being in a relationship. I have no doubt that you miss her specifically, but it's also likely that you miss some other things that are more a product of being in a relationship: things like having someone to talk to about deeply personal stuff, being able to share certain things with someone else and similar things aren;t necessarily linked to a spoecifc person, but they really seem to be when things are fresh in your mind.

The thing is, to me, when you lose a partner, you also lose a friend. A lot of people will tell you that friendship is absolutely seperate from a relationship but that is just bull. They may not always be the same, but a relationship where you aren't friends with the person you're with isn't likely to last. So a lot of times, losing a romantic partner also means losing a close friend. I know that in one specific instance when I had a break-up, one of the hardest pats was dealing with the fact that the person I usually talked to about personal issues was the same person I had just broken up with. It's a double whammy, and it takes time for everyone to deal with that sort of thing. And everyone has a different timetable for that thing, so there is no real correct amount of time involved in the recovery process.

In the end, even if you did decide to get back in contatc, I fear things would go badly in this instance. As AC said, if someone tells you they are no longer interested in a relationship they generally mean it. It's unlikely she'd agree to try again, and even if she did, the problems and issues that led her to that decision in the first place are probably still there. The odds are that if she did agree to try again, you'd likely only be setting yourself up to have to go through the entire process from scratch again down the road.

As far as professional help goes, that's a decision only you can make. Like fable, I don;t think there is anything unnatural about still having these kinds of feelings after a few months. You said it isn't adversely impacting other areas of your life and it's more a feeling of being sad. I think that's pretty much normal under the circumstances. I wouldn't look to pay a professional at this point, but it's your call.

BlueSky · Post by **BlueSky** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:04 pm

20 yrs of marriage then divorce and yes....those feelings...

The five stages of grief

Denial — "I feel fine."; "This can't be happening, not to me."

Anger — "Why me? It's not fair!"; "How can this happen to me?"; "Who is to blame?"

Bargaining — "Just let me live to see my children graduate."; "I'll do anything for a few more years.";

Depression — "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die . . . What's the point?"; "I miss my loved one, why go on?"

Acceptance — "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:35 pm

As others have said, what you are going through is entirely natural... and it really hasn't been very long...

When you build a relationship with somebody you effectively create a particular world that you share only with your partner. So.. if the relationship ends, suddenly that world has been fractured in two, and it feels as though a part of you has been severed.
Plainly put, it hurts like utter Hell..
Eventually, it does get better, but when you are undergoing that grieving process it feels as though the hurt will last forever...

It sounds as though you are doing all of the right things though, especially the physical activity. When I go through rough patches, no matter their nature, I find that going to the gym helps hugely, it keeps you from tipping over the edge.

Regarding the professional help... I'm not sure you really need it. My impression is that you have your head together, and I'm not sure there's much a counselor/therapist could do to improve the situation.
Based on my own experiences and that of friends.. my sense is that really good professionals in this area are very hard to find. A lot of the time they have a unique knack for pointing out the glaringly obvious. For example, in one situation I know of, a counselor told a friend that the marital infidelities committed by her and her partner were a manifestation of problems in the relationship.... Well... D'oohh...

(unless somebody is outside of the monogamy box, that is blatantly apparent)
Alternatively, sometimes they have the habit of slotting you into a pattern without taking individual personalities and experiences into account, there's way too much of the "a+b always equals C" mentality.
Thus, my suggestion would be to take great care in selecting a counselor, some people interview them before commencing any kind of treatment, that's probably not a bad idea.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:49 pm

Without knowing much in the way of specifics, by the sound of things you're pretty much on the right track here and you could get most of the benefit you'd get from professional counselling from just having someone to talk to.
So yeah, a lot from column a, a little from column d.

Good luck mate.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:01 pm

I'm going to echo what everyone has been essentially saying, and try and give yourself some more time to try and get over the relationship. It's really difficult to move on, and even a few months later, there's nothing weird about still missing the feeling of being in a relationship. It will, however, fade in time, and this is part of the process. It sucks, it's hell, but you'll be the better for it down the road.

I can't really tell you one way or the other whether you should try and make some contact with the girl, but I sort of agree with other people that if there's no indication that she would agree, then it's probably the best for your health that you don't. Even if it were to happen, would it really been any different from before? Would you perhaps be setting yourself up for more disappointment in the near future?

About professional help, you seem to have your head screwed on straight, so I would say it's probably not necessary at this point; there's nothing you'll gain from it that a few friends and time won't fix. If you find yourself really thinking about it all the time, being depressed about it constantly, and that its affecting your social/work/school lives, then it might not be a bad idea. As someone who got professional help for depression, it might seem like they just point out the obvious, but it can be remarkably effective.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:20 am

Again, the best points have already been made. Since we're all speaking from personal experience, I just wanted to add that I have had an exceptionally good experience seeking professional help for this sprt of thing. The circumstances were a little different though, involving the death of a young lady rather than a breakup. But I believe we're coming from the same place here.

I was very sceptical that a stranger was going to be able to help me, especially since I had already gone over the entire issue in my head for a full year. My best friends had to convince me to go, even. I did not regret it. Four years later I have new girlfriend, future plans, you name it, all because of a few conversations that pointed out the critical things to me that no one, not me, not my best friends and certainly not my family had been able to show me. Four years later I have practically a new life, a new girlfriend and ambitious plans for the future (albeit very un-continental ones).

There's serveral government subsidised institutions here in Holland, I didn't have to go to an actual shrink. I wouldn't right away have done that anyhow. I had a few sessions with someone who mainly had dealt with a lot of cases already. Shrinks are a possibility, true, but I've heard both good and bad stories about dealing with them. They can at times be quite.. stubborn and over-educated, lacking in the humanist ability to understand the plight and cause of the everyday man.

My two cents. I hope I'm not insulting any graduates here.

penguin_king · Post by **penguin_king** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:42 am

talk to her, not neccessarily trying to win her back, just find out how she feels about the matter. if that doesnt go the way you want, then i guess A) is your only other option until it leads to C)

Moonbiter · Post by **Moonbiter** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:59 pm

Skip it. Trying to talk to her is wrong in so many ways that I can't begin to think about it. Sorry to say this, but there is nothing more empowering and pathetic to a girl than an ex boyfriend on the phone leaving messages or trying to call. It works both ways, BTW.

Don't call her, don't mention getting together for a coffee, don't acknowledge her at all. This is the hardest part, but whatever you do, if you want her back, ignore her. This is basic breaking up 1.0. Make all of your mutual friends (if you have any) think that you're having the time of your life. Freedom! And please do. Don't be stupid about it, but whatever you do, don't beg. Trust me, I've tried x 100, and it never works. You'll have her sitting in a bar talking to her girlfriends about how pathetic you are and showing them your text messages. Then her "best friends" are gonna call you, telling you to leave her alone. It's a ritual as old as dating itself.

Try to focus on what made her dump you in the first place? I bet I can quote her standard answers one by one. As far as I recall, you picked her up from college or some such, she let you drive her home, and dumped you in the driveway. I might be wrong about this, but the important thing is why... Has she evolved beyond the first love? Probably. It happens both ways, all the time. One person goes off and experiences the world, the other is home tending shop. Stuck in a rut. Would you want to go home to that?

This is probably not what you want to hear, but I have to be honest: Move on! Give her the cold shoulder until after xmas, and if there's any chance she's still interested, she'll contact you. It happens, though I won't say a lot. In the meantime you'll grow. Don't obsess. I don't know how old you are, but this is probably gonna happen a few times. It gets easier, but not much.

The most important thing is, don't change just because you think that will bring her back. A rule of thumb, no matter how cynical it may sound, is that a girl falls in love with the exciting person that is you, then spends a few years kicking you into shape, and then dumps you because you're no longer the person she fell in love with. Harsh lesson, but it's the truth. Especially when you're young. People learn to respect each other a bit more over the years, after they've gotten dumped a few times.

So, with apologies for being extremely Moonbiter-ish, stick with plan A. It's always the best solution in the end. It may cost a few sleepless and lonely nights, but hey - at least you have your future and your integrity intact, so you can get up in the morning and there's a new day, not the old, wasted one where you're obsessing over and over again. Peace!

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:16 pm

I think Moonbiter is very right in his advice to not obsess and to avoid contact entirely..
Speaking from personal experience, I have not appreciated it when an ex has attempted contact. In fact, on one occasion, persistent phone calls from somebody I might have considered seeing again entirely killed my interest. I didn't denigrate the guy to anyone (unless there is something like very real abuse involved, I have no use for people who sit around slamming former partners).. however, the continuous attempts to call when I'd clearly stated I needed a break were extremely irritating. Eventually I needed to be quite brutal, something I generally dislike and try to avoid when I can.

penguin_king · Post by **penguin_king** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:57 am

ah, the benefits of having female members of GB! instead of us guys all saying what we think women want, you can tell us! haha.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:53 pm

Definitely do NOT go back over old ground and try to win her back. If it didn't work out first time, and there was a lot of unpleasantness, it certainly won't work second time around, even you managed to convince her it was a good idea.
Something I would suggest - ready for the next time you fall in love (and you will!) - is to ask yourself, in all honesty, "How much of the mess was my fault? What could I have done to prevent the bad situation ever arising?"

It's not time for counselling. As everyone else has said, it hasn't been very long yet, and grieving is natural; it's part of the healing process. Just look at what happened, acknowledge that it happened, and admit you can do nothing to alter it. It's the same as breaking a plate (though much more emotionally fraught, of course): it's broken: chuck it away and try not not to cut yourself on the shards.
Thinking about her, and about what happened, is natural, and is something we all do for ages and ages afterwards, long after all our friends have started saying "Get over it!", and avoiding us! But gradually, you will find it gets harder and harder to rustle up the love you had for her, or even to remember exactly what she looked like. You'll still think of her occasionally, even years afterwards, but it won't hurt any more, and it won't make you angry any more, and you'll be able to see matters from both sides if you care to try, and admit that it was six of one and half a dozen of the other.
Give yourself time.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:11 pm

I always knew there was a reason I stuck around this site for so long.

Thanks for the excellent advice everyone, you all really helped me through a rough patch. I appreciate it.

The insights about missing a close friend and confidant were really useful, I never considered it. The person who I normally talked to about difficult feelings is now the one causing them.

Thanks for substituting everyone. This forum is composed of truely excellent people.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:03 pm

Good luck Obsidian,
and remember, we're here if you need a sounding board

QuenGalad · Post by **QuenGalad** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:21 am

I've been lurking around here snatching some advice that wasn't meant for me. It was quite relevant and pretty helpful, so i guess thanks are in order here, too.

Thanks

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:11 am

Hiya Obsidian. Haven't seen you in ages.

Reading your post brings to mind the lessons of my own life. You've received some great advice here, and I don't think I have anything new to add there. Rather, much like Moonbiter, I felt I should warn you of a few things. Things you should watch for.

First of all, it's likely that like the rest of us, you'll end up learning the hard way. I sure hope not. I had some good advice handed to me at critical points in my life...and I did a good job of acting like I understood. After getting it, I turned around and transformed a little suffering into a heap of misery.

Beware advice, and the human tendency to not apply it. No matter how good that advice is. Since you are human...well, you know.

You are recovering from an addiction. As such, it takes time for you to adjust to existence without the addictive substance. Beware of any notion that leads you inexorably back to the substance you were addicted to. You might be thinking "Hey, this is a poor analogy. She is not an addictive substance! She's a human being!" True, but on some level in your mind a relationship with her is indeed an addictive substance, and you should treat it as such. No matter how good you thought it was. Obliterate any line of thought that includes the notion of re-establishing a relationship of any kind with her. Move along, and be ruthless about it.

At some point you need to sit down with yourself and establish what you want out of a relationship with someone. Be brutally honest. If you do this now, then you can avoid what happened to a poor sap like myself. I only recently did that. Man, the suffering I could have avoided had I done that years ago...

Iron out what you want. Once you have those details, put it all aside and forget about relationships. In fact, why not take a lengthy break from 'em. Turn down advances. Don't make any yourself. This will help you recover from the addiction.

EDIT: I meant to add that there is usually a silver lining to storm clouds. It may be obscured in the gloom, thus escaping your immediate notice. After putting relationships aside, you might find yourself one day confronted by the prospect of a relationship that fits many (not all, but most) of the requirements you established. If you find yourself in that position, then congratulations.