After Planescape: Torment...

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:05 am

Dammit, you're all making me want to install PST again. I am not sure what scares me off more, the lengthy beginning or the prospect of never being able to enjoy another RPG ever again. If the latter wasn't already the case, I would have asked Yahtzee to write a little review first out of sheer spite.

Ironically during the next few months I'll be stuck behind a much less powerful laptop while freezing my butt off in Norway. PST will be on a very short list of RPG's that I am both interested in AND able to play.

Karamba · Post by **Karamba** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:25 pm

fable wrote:Well, they actually aren't unique. Not to say anything against the Myst series, but they fit what was the most common adventure template for a long time: convoluted logic puzzles, almost no dialog, beautiful, strange objects with no life in sight, etc. This isn't a criticism of the series, mind you. It's just that if you like Myst, there are many, many adventures that do the same thing, and quite a few are good.

Actually, wasn't the original Myst the first adventure game to implement a first person perspective, puzzle driven, no-character-interaction gameplay? Do you know any other games before 1991 that were built around this model?

It's true that it had tons of imitators though. Didn't play any of them except Atlantis II which I really didn't get into, so I can't say if they're any good.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:42 pm

Karamba wrote:Actually, wasn't the original Myst the first adventure game to implement a first person perspective, puzzle driven, no-character-interaction gameplay? Do you know any other games before 1991 that were built around this model?

A couple of friends of mine invited a group of us--all writers--over to their house in 1978 to see their brand new Apple II computer. It came with a game entitled Adventureland, the first of many by Scott Adams. While Adams' games were text-based on the Atari 800, they had primitive graphics on the Apple II, all displayed from a first person perspective, with no character interaction, and objects you needed to pick up, combine/use elsewhere. Adams is frequently regarded as the Father of Adventure Games, and he chuckles about that to this day. (Or at any rate did, when I interviewed him about 8 years ago.) Others quickly picked up the challenge.

Through the 80s but especially in the last half, there were plenty of graphical adventure games for a wide range of computers, including the PC--such as Trillium's Rendezvous with Rama (1985), their Nine Princes in Amber (1987), Penguin's The Quest (1984), and Rainbird's The Guild of Thieves (1987). And those are pretty much off the top of my head, since I played them at the time. (I only checked the dates while writing, to make sure I got them right.) All of them are first person, no interactions save with objects.

kozeph · Post by **kozeph** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:12 pm

fable wrote:Well, they actually aren't unique. Not to say anything against the Myst series.

hehehe sorry i did not mean like it was an epic game revolutionary and what not, what i meant that the game holds great importance to me and was one of the first first person puzzle or adventure games i ever saw and played

just found a text based game called journey the quest begins looks like classical good old adventure hahah

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:54 pm

willsanders84 wrote:Torment's the word. I just can't find anything that even compares to it now. I suspect that I may never play another computer game. Can anything stand up to this epic rpg?

Unfortunately, I have to second what several other members have already posted. I never managed to finish another CRPG after Planescape. Never. I managed to finish Grim Fandango, though. And other types of games, like Football manager and Diablo II. But for CRPGs - I tried KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Dungeon Siege and several others but I simply lost interest after a while. So I don't play CRPGs anymore.

Vhailor · Post by **Vhailor** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:16 am

^: Me too.. I never finished another CRPG after PST. But that's not to say that I didn't finish any before it. You see I got my hands on Baldur's Gate I & II, and Icewind Dale before playing PST.. It's funny because even though I played through all of BG 1 and 2, I never made it through Throne of Bhaal because I got into PST right after BG 2 but before ToB... When I finally bought ToB, I started up a game but never got anywhere. I don't think I've spent more than an hour with any other CRPG since having beaten PST... and I've tried most of them. In fact, I haven't played through any RPG since PST. Since PST I find myself spending most of my gaming time mindlessly trying to get enough kills for an AC-130 death streak reward on Modern Warfare 2.. or something similar. It's fun, but not intriguing or thought provocative.. "cute" but not "beautiful". I have never been as emotionally engaged with a game as I was with PST...

(this makes me want to play Throne of Bhaal through now.. I mean I loved BGII.. Jon Irenicus is one of the best designed antagonists of any game, behind The Transcendent One of course, but it's just that PST kind of capped off the genre. Finished it off)

willsanders84 · Post by **willsanders84** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:32 pm

All the feedback's been great, thanks. I've looked into every game mentioned, and have ended up playing Arcanum. Groan.

It started of fairly well, decent premise, decent characters, just about. Then it trailed off slightly, and now approximately 5% into the game, I'm completely bored and occasionally refer to a walkthrough. A WALKTHROUGH! God I've always hate walkthroughs. You just know that if you end up using one, you're not playing a good game.

Don't get me wrong, Arcanum IS a very good game, but it lacks emotional depth. All there is to care about is one's character, the rest of it I couldn't give a damn about.

Which made me think, I didn't give a damn about the nameless one. His stats, I mean. As long as he had the strenght to get me to the next question, and the wisdom to find the right answer, I didn't care. I think I ended up with about three unused proficiency slots. I felt powerful because *I* felt powerful, not because my character weilded some amazing axe. I was just too into the plot. That's what I call a game.

Someone asked about Little Big Adventure, so I'm going to take the oppertunity to harp on about it. I think that's it's so old now that it's free, and is quite easily found on the net. You need a patch called LbaWin to run it, but it's the easiest patch I've ever installed. Utter charm, that game.

I looked into the 'movie' style games, and I must say, heavy rain looked very good. However, the myst style of game, doesn't quite grip me. There has to be some fantasy, some charm, a little gameplay. The 'movie' style games I'm not so sure about because of this.

Anacronox tempts me, I may well try it out, but currently I'm too busy wasting my time killing dwarves and conjuring fire elementals on Arcanum. How boring. That and driving around listening to the Deus Ex soundtrack. Half moon tonight, I thought, 'that's a Deus Ex moon' as I cruised along to 'UNATCO'.

The Z · Post by **The Z** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:48 pm

Keep in mind that if you play Anachronox, you should download the patches before you play to fix bugs, the savegame system, and travelling. Long story short, it is of course no Torment, but it might get some laughs out of you.

holeraw · Post by **holeraw** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:16 am

Since there are Adventure games included here I'd like to drop a vote for Syberia which hasn't been mentioned.It's one of the extremely few games that I'd call mature with a straight face - there isn't any violence, strong language, nudity etc. in it naturally, because none is necessary, but the game deals with unusual (for a game) concepts such as memory, regret, responsibility etc. (that are not alien to PS:T) in a proper mature way. + it is set in a version of the real world that is nevertheless very close to fantasy - not because it has wizards or anything but rather because... well... it's pretty complicated, lets say that you get to explore places that are (figuratively speaking) stuck in a different time. Its story is absolutely brilliant, both the general idea and the exposition, and it's full of smart metaphors and if there is one game that made me care for its characters it's this one.
+ it has robots

(well sort of...)

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:04 am

I wasn't able to finish Syberia without a walkthrough though. Adventure games have that effect on me ever since I first played Gobliiins. Beneath A Steel Sky though really pushed my buttons, as did Day Of The Tentacle. Unfortunately I've had no luck getting either game to work on XP machines and better. Dosbox is probably the answer here.

As for Anachronox; it is a classic, I will admit that much. But I predict you will play it once to never play it again. The gameplay is a bit.. shallow and repetitive, even by japanese RPG standards. And prepare to backtrack endlessly long corridors countless times only to try out a possible solution to a puzzle in a slightly different way. But the story is funny and uses satiric humour to great efect.

Anachronox' machinima has won several awards. It has been cut and made into a film, which you can still find online and watch if the gameplay grows tiresome.

holeraw · Post by **holeraw** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:27 am

Tricky wrote:I wasn't able to finish Syberia without a walkthrough though. Adventure games have that effect on me ever since I first played Gobliiins. Beneath A Steel Sky though really pushed my buttons, as did Day Of The Tentacle. Unfortunately I've had no luck getting either game to work on XP machines and better. Dosbox is probably the answer here.

You could try ScummVM instead of Dosbox - it was created especially for some of these games.
Syberia doesn't need any of that though - it's a fairly recent game, it worked fine on my Vista machine.

(and by the way - if you managed to even complete a few levels of Gobliiins without a walkthrough you shouldn't have any problem with Syberia - it's quite easy while Gobliiins' difficulty is occasionally insane!)

Vhailor · Post by **Vhailor** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:24 pm

Continuing on with the adventure games... I remember playing the first Gabriel Knight.. I didn't get into it because I was turned off by the graphics (I was probably playing Half Life 2 at the time or something) but I have developed more of a tolerance for older games with dated graphics now so if it's worth it maybe I will see if I can find it. Anyways, I think there were 3 of them but I was wondering if anyone has played through any of them and if so, what their thoughts are...

Also, I recently re-visited a game I used to play a lot several years ago. I know this is way off the topic of RPG's but Homeworld was a great game. Its story is simple and basic (but still kind of epic) but what matters here is atmosphere, gameplay, and music. It's a cool experience if you like the RTS genre.

And one last note. I have The Temple of Elemental Evil but have never played it. Anyone know about this game, storywise -- if it's good? (I'm so busy right now with life in general that it's hard for me to fire it up and play it just to see if it's worth playing.. but perhaps I might install it here in the next couple of weeks and give it a go)

kozeph · Post by **kozeph** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:26 pm

story wise temple of elemental evil fails, its a solid tactical rpg and i rather enjoyed it. i suggest that if your going to play it find the circle of the eigth patches they improve the quality of the game and add more content, also fixing the many bugs that plague the game.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:00 am

kozeph wrote:story wise temple of elemental evil fails, its a solid tactical rpg and i rather enjoyed it. i suggest that if your going to play it find the circle of the eigth patches they improve the quality of the game and add more content, also fixing the many bugs that plague the game.

I agree--ToEE is just about the opposite of PS:T in most respects, with more interesting combat options but nothing to draw the attention in the way of character, quests, or overarching theme.

Chezdon · Post by **Chezdon** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:20 am

I think it's always hard to top games you played in your youth, or the first you played in that particular genre.

I have only watched BG I and II and PST, never playing them, but saw they were good games. I'm going to start PST this weekend, as DAO has given me the RPG bug (and it's Christmas, time off work).

For example, I played games like Kyrandia, Dark Queen of Krynn, Eye of the Beholder, Little Big Adventure 2, Zelda, Links Awakening and Diablo 1 when I was 8-15 years old. These games will always be dear to me, and I will always remember them because they were some of the first games I'd ever played.

Another game, Medal of Honor Allied Assault. This was one of the first 1st Person Shooters I played in my teens, and I've never played a better one since.

I imagine though, that PST was not the first RPG you guys played. If so, then it must truley be an amazing game.

I just hope I can play it and enjoy it, even though it's quite an old game now (not that this should affect my judgement).

Ares2382 · Post by **Ares2382** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:18 pm

Yeah deffinitely was not the first RPG for me. On the PC I played BG 1 before PS:T, and I played sever RPGs on NES and SEGA Saturn before I even got the computer.

It's just that good of a game.

And as far as it being an old game. Let me tell you while it's age does show when you play it, it's still a very beautiful game. The artwork in general for all the Infinity Engine games was quiet good, even by today's standards.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:49 pm

Chezdon wrote: I imagine though, that PST was not the first RPG you guys played. If so, then it must truley be an amazing game.

When I was young, I played the old SSI games; the Pool of Radiace series which I liked a lot, some similar games I have forgotten the titles of, Eye of the Beholder etc. After that, I felt the genre changed and I lost interest. I didn't play computer games at all for a long time, but when BG1 and BG2 came around I played them and I really appreciated BG1. BG2 was good but I liked BG1 better, and the extention, Throne of Baal, was actually an effort for me to play through. I also played IWD1 and that was ok. Then, finally, I played Planescape.

Planescape has what all other CRPGs I've subsequently tried lack: a story that motivates me to continue playing and a world and characters that are interesting enough to explore. I actually like the concept of CRPG in theory, it's just that every game I've tried after PS:T has been too bloody boring, stereotype and predictable in comparison. And I'm too busy to have time to waste.

Chezdon · Post by **Chezdon** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:16 am

EOB 1 and 2 are two games that are probably my earliest memories of gaming (23 years old). They were truley great games.

Just itching for the weekend so I can hopefully install PST and start playing it. I watched my brother play a bit of it and I can vaguely remember Morte. I remember him being extremely funny.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:02 pm

willsanders84 wrote:Torment's the word. I just can't find anything that even compares to it now. I suspect that I may never play another computer game. Can anything stand up to this epic rpg?

If someone asked me the same thing, I'd say try Fallout (just the first one) and Baldur's Gate II (not the first one). I might even suggest Little Big Adventure.

Unfortunately, obviously, I've played all three. I've played BG1 and Fallout 2 aswell. And LBA 2.

Can anyone recommend anything that'll fill the vast chasm that Planescape has created? I've heared people recommend The Longest Journey, but am sceptical.

I ask those who *know*. Thankyou.

I liked The Longest Journey. But it isn't anything like PS:T

chaindrop · Post by **chaindrop** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:24 pm

Vhailor wrote:Continuing on with the adventure games... I remember playing the first Gabriel Knight.. I didn't get into it because I was turned off by the graphics (I was probably playing Half Life 2 at the time or something) but I have developed more of a tolerance for older games with dated graphics now so if it's worth it maybe I will see if I can find it. Anyways, I think there were 3 of them but I was wondering if anyone has played through any of them and if so, what their thoughts are...

I have recently played through Gabriel Knight 1-3. I'd rank it as one of my favorite adventure game series. I love how the makers handled the occult theme, and how they mixed historical facts with fiction. It is a pretty weird series though, because each sequel's gameplay is extremely different from the previous. The first one is sort of like a classic point and click, albeit with more action commands than most adventure games i've encountered. The second is an FMV type of game, and the third made a move to 3d which didn't age that well but still a very rewarding experience if you look past the dated graphics.