I am curious how you came to the decision about what your character was going to do about the throne. Since there are multiple ways this can end, I am rather stuck about how to proceed. Since my character is a female mage who Alistair is in love with but who is not a noble, she is moving in the direction of supporting the marriage of Alistair and Anora because it would be a slam dunk at the Landsmeet and who probably be the best for the country.
On the other hand, she feels that Alistair would be miserable married to Anora (who wouldn't be?). If she supports Anora alone, the bloodline would be lost and she is afraid that Anora would condemn Alistair to death. Anora is clearly merciless in that department and my character has no illusions about Anora being her father's daughter. My character fully intends to kill Loghain, so she is not going to win any points with Anora on that score. She could lie to Anora, then support Alistair alone but that really sits wrong with her to be that dishonorable. She feels that while Anora is manipulative, cunning, and obsessed with power and control, she is not a villain. She is fighting not only for the throne but for her life. If she loses, no doubt she will be neutralized as a potential threat.
So, dazzle me with your reasoning.
How Did You Choose? (spoilers)
How Did You Choose? (spoilers)
Those who will play with kitties must expect to be scratched.
Many are cold; few are frozen.
Absence is to love what wind is to fire... it extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
Many are cold; few are frozen.
Absence is to love what wind is to fire... it extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
- Lady Dragonfly
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Lol, there is no need for any reasoning in DAO. You give BioWare too much credit. For example, why was Loghain doing what he was doing? The answer to this question actually reveals a major plot hole.
Anora ruled the country de-facto while her pea-brained husband (good riddance) was hunting and whatnot. She has all experience in the world. On the other hand, Alistair is just an obnoxious idiot (not unlike his sister) who does not even want the crown.
If you go ahead and marry these two, Anora will still be the ruler (a good thing for the country since she is relatively intelligent and experienced) while Alistair will be traveling with his buddies and having good time etc. And they all will live happily ever after (until the next installment).
Of course, if Alistair is chosen to slay Loghain, Anora will refuse to marry him. Should that happen, you can imprison Anora and place Alistair on the throne (against his will of course) but he is going to be a lousy ruler.
Anyway, that was my brilliant reasoning. Take it for what it is.
Anora ruled the country de-facto while her pea-brained husband (good riddance) was hunting and whatnot. She has all experience in the world. On the other hand, Alistair is just an obnoxious idiot (not unlike his sister) who does not even want the crown.
If you go ahead and marry these two, Anora will still be the ruler (a good thing for the country since she is relatively intelligent and experienced) while Alistair will be traveling with his buddies and having good time etc. And they all will live happily ever after (until the next installment).
Of course, if Alistair is chosen to slay Loghain, Anora will refuse to marry him. Should that happen, you can imprison Anora and place Alistair on the throne (against his will of course) but he is going to be a lousy ruler.
Anyway, that was my brilliant reasoning. Take it for what it is.
Man's most valuable trait is a judicious sense of what not to believe.
-- Euripides
-- Euripides
- dragon wench
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I'm going to be confronting precisely the same decision with my elven mage fairly soon.
I think maybe it's best to go with the character. If you've played a "lawful good" type of role, and your PC believes in self-sacrifice for the greater good... than I think the choice is pretty obvious.
Factoring into this, though, would be whether or not your character successfully "hardened" Alistair... If he has been... er... primed for the position, he'll likely manage Anora just fine. If your character was gentle on Alistair, however, perhaps this would be more of a challenge...
*evil cough*
On the other hand, if the character is of a more chaotic nature, electing to ride off into the sunset alongside Alistair would make sense. It wouldn't be all bad either, since Anora is a capable leader, so it's not as though the nation will be in poor hands.
Also, while I've no idea how this will actually be handled in the end, don't forget that your major decisions will likely carry over into the expansion. Something to consider...
My rambling two cents anyway
I think maybe it's best to go with the character. If you've played a "lawful good" type of role, and your PC believes in self-sacrifice for the greater good... than I think the choice is pretty obvious.
Factoring into this, though, would be whether or not your character successfully "hardened" Alistair... If he has been... er... primed for the position, he'll likely manage Anora just fine. If your character was gentle on Alistair, however, perhaps this would be more of a challenge...
*evil cough*
On the other hand, if the character is of a more chaotic nature, electing to ride off into the sunset alongside Alistair would make sense. It wouldn't be all bad either, since Anora is a capable leader, so it's not as though the nation will be in poor hands.
Also, while I've no idea how this will actually be handled in the end, don't forget that your major decisions will likely carry over into the expansion. Something to consider...
My rambling two cents anyway
Spoiler
testingtest12
Spoiler
testingtest12
- Bloodstalker
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I wasn't about to put Anora on the throne. Period. I am a very reactionary gamer. Loosely translated, that means all my characters tend to hold onto grudges for dear life. Anora made some bad decisions as it relates to selling my warden out, and therefore payback must come.
Rationally, well, I still wouldn't have her near the throne because I wouldn't broker a marriage between her and my worst enemy. Unless the decision was made during a night of drinking, at which time the amusement factor would likely lead me to fix her and Alistair up. I tried playing a female mage and doing the Alistair romance myself, but it was just too creepy after having built a buddy relationship with the guy in my first male playthrough.
You should be able to do enough canvasing and smooth talking to be able to pull the Landsmeet off regardless, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. I look at it this way, if I was gonna kill Loghain, and then put her on the throne, I'd be courting death most likely. Which I am against.
Actually, I can't be rational. Hell with Anora.
Rationally, well, I still wouldn't have her near the throne because I wouldn't broker a marriage between her and my worst enemy. Unless the decision was made during a night of drinking, at which time the amusement factor would likely lead me to fix her and Alistair up. I tried playing a female mage and doing the Alistair romance myself, but it was just too creepy after having built a buddy relationship with the guy in my first male playthrough.
You should be able to do enough canvasing and smooth talking to be able to pull the Landsmeet off regardless, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. I look at it this way, if I was gonna kill Loghain, and then put her on the throne, I'd be courting death most likely. Which I am against.
Actually, I can't be rational. Hell with Anora.
Lord of Lurkers
Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!
Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!
You both make excellent points.
In the current game, my character did successfully "harden" Alistair, but only temporarily.
He would be no match for Anora in his current "gentle" state but I'm thinking maybe a Petrify spell...??
I have considered the expansion and I think betraying Anora and leaving her to rot in a tower creates a potentially ugly scenario for the future, since she is popular and very resourceful. The whole thing she set up at the Howe estate was a masterwork of subterfuge and manipulation, so I think she would be a dangerous opponent and a vector for possible rebellion... or worse.
Beyond that, though, to pursue this line of action would be a significant violation of my character's values. The only real options I see is to support Anora ruling alone or support Alistair and Anora getting married. If we return to the injunction that the main task of the Grey Wardens is to stop the blight, and to do that the Landsmeet must be won and Ferelden must be unified, these are the only two options that logically make sense to me. I have read many, many posts denouncing Anora, but these are typically assessments that are emotionally or personally based. What about the bigger picture? Sure, my character would like nothing better than to ride off into the sunset with her man or, baring that, perhaps be queen. But that does seem very self-serving.
Granted, my character doesn't care much for Anora either, but the role playing challenge is to consider what will best serve the goal of ending the Blight. I cannot see that happening with Anora marginalized and the situation polarized.
I am aware that Anora will not marry Alistair if he kills Loghain, which is why my character will handle that task - happily.
In the current game, my character did successfully "harden" Alistair, but only temporarily.
He would be no match for Anora in his current "gentle" state but I'm thinking maybe a Petrify spell...??
I have considered the expansion and I think betraying Anora and leaving her to rot in a tower creates a potentially ugly scenario for the future, since she is popular and very resourceful. The whole thing she set up at the Howe estate was a masterwork of subterfuge and manipulation, so I think she would be a dangerous opponent and a vector for possible rebellion... or worse.
Beyond that, though, to pursue this line of action would be a significant violation of my character's values. The only real options I see is to support Anora ruling alone or support Alistair and Anora getting married. If we return to the injunction that the main task of the Grey Wardens is to stop the blight, and to do that the Landsmeet must be won and Ferelden must be unified, these are the only two options that logically make sense to me. I have read many, many posts denouncing Anora, but these are typically assessments that are emotionally or personally based. What about the bigger picture? Sure, my character would like nothing better than to ride off into the sunset with her man or, baring that, perhaps be queen. But that does seem very self-serving.
Granted, my character doesn't care much for Anora either, but the role playing challenge is to consider what will best serve the goal of ending the Blight. I cannot see that happening with Anora marginalized and the situation polarized.
I am aware that Anora will not marry Alistair if he kills Loghain, which is why my character will handle that task - happily.
Those who will play with kitties must expect to be scratched.
Many are cold; few are frozen.
Absence is to love what wind is to fire... it extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
Many are cold; few are frozen.
Absence is to love what wind is to fire... it extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
ROFL! Note to self: be extra nice to BS.Bloodstalker wrote:I wasn't about to put Anora on the throne. Period. I am a very reactionary gamer. Loosely translated, that means all my characters tend to hold onto grudges for dear life. Anora made some bad decisions as it relates to selling my warden out, and therefore payback must come.
Actually, I can't be rational. Hell with Anora.
Those who will play with kitties must expect to be scratched.
Many are cold; few are frozen.
Absence is to love what wind is to fire... it extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
Many are cold; few are frozen.
Absence is to love what wind is to fire... it extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
- Crenshinibon
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I'm currently on my fifth playthrough (third solo, second nightmare solo ) and I've gone through all of these options, however, I believe that (spoiler) . Actually, I might have to put my current playthrough on hold so that I can start Awakening as the king or queen of Ferelden.
Spoiler
if you harden Alistair during the encounter with his sister, and are romancing him, you are still able to marry him, although I'm unsure if that's true. Alternatively, I heard that you can marry Alistair and Anora and still have a relationship on the side
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
I decided to get them hitched, since I figured it was the best of both worlds. Then, I wasn't really thinking, and gave Alistair the killing blow on Loghain. Which ruined the planned marriage. I hadn't hardened Alistair, so I let Anora be the sole ruler.
I was a little annoyed at myself for backing myself into that corner, since, as BS said it, Hell with Anora.
I was a little annoyed at myself for backing myself into that corner, since, as BS said it, Hell with Anora.
If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.
- GoldDragon
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MAJOR SPOILERS!
(Highlight to read, btw)
End spoilers.
(Highlight to read, btw)
Spoiler
Loghian is paranoid about Orlais re-occupying Ferelden. EVERYTHING he does is geared towards that one fact. He simply uses the Blight as an excuse, and his status as Hero of River Dane is used so that he can't be judged by Mortals (witness his reaction to the High Cleric, and his Loss speech "How dare you JUDGE ME!" ). His dedication to the task is noteworthy, and his skills as a warrior are indeed praiseworthy (Both requirements to join the Grey Wardens), but can you really trust someone who did everything he could to back his nation into a two-front war he simply can NOT win?
Hardening Alistair before Landsmeet is almost required, especially if you want him to be king. Hardened (Everyone is out for themselves, and a Camp dialogue at approval 76 in which you choose pretty much anything except "I didn't mean it THAT way" does the trick), with PC as Non-noble, he WILL take the throne automatically. with the Female PC as a Noble, he gives the non-hardened stumble, mostly so that you can arrange for YOUR marraige to him, and become Queen. I only married off Anora and Alistair once, and he wasn't hardened (I didn't know how to do it at the time). As I really don't like Anora for personal reasons (as a player, not RPing anything), i haven't been able to bring myself to do it again. Supposedly, a Hardened Alistair with Anora as Queen brings about a true Golden Age for Ferelden.
Hardened, Alistair will learn to Govern well, surprising everyone, even Anora if married. Non-hardened, Alistair will leave the governing to Anora almost completely, which pleases her. Also, Female non-human noble PCs CAN continue the Romance, and become mistress/concubine only if he is hardened, much to the disgust of Anora. Non-hardened, he WILL end it after Landsmeet. Period. However, there IS a "bug"/feature that by-passes this. Simply do NOT start up the Romance before Landsmeet. After Landsmeet, give him Duncan's SHield and/or his mother's Amulet. WIth the Right Dialogue choices, the Romance will start, letting you stay with even a non-hardened Alistair. Shame on Bioware for not getting this right.....
As for Anora non-married, she is sent to the Tower, yes, but nothing else is said. MY suspiscions: She is quietly killed, since she DOES refuse to make the Oath to not seek the Crown for herself or her Offspring. Reason: Take the Title & Wealth reward from Alistair. You gain Loghain's old title.
Supporting Anora over Alistair: Hardened, this Ticks him off big-time. Non-hardened, this pleases him. Either way, Anora DOES try to have him killed, but with persuasion, you can convince her to let him give the oath not to seek the throne. EIther way, he will give it.
As regards to Awakening: There isn't enough knowledge about it. the One statement I heard, that many PC choices would carry over, was actually retracted. We have no real choice but to wait and see. But after viewing that children trailer, I make this oath: my first character to port over will be the Pyromancer. Lets see how those creepies like fire!
Hardening Alistair before Landsmeet is almost required, especially if you want him to be king. Hardened (Everyone is out for themselves, and a Camp dialogue at approval 76 in which you choose pretty much anything except "I didn't mean it THAT way" does the trick), with PC as Non-noble, he WILL take the throne automatically. with the Female PC as a Noble, he gives the non-hardened stumble, mostly so that you can arrange for YOUR marraige to him, and become Queen. I only married off Anora and Alistair once, and he wasn't hardened (I didn't know how to do it at the time). As I really don't like Anora for personal reasons (as a player, not RPing anything), i haven't been able to bring myself to do it again. Supposedly, a Hardened Alistair with Anora as Queen brings about a true Golden Age for Ferelden.
Hardened, Alistair will learn to Govern well, surprising everyone, even Anora if married. Non-hardened, Alistair will leave the governing to Anora almost completely, which pleases her. Also, Female non-human noble PCs CAN continue the Romance, and become mistress/concubine only if he is hardened, much to the disgust of Anora. Non-hardened, he WILL end it after Landsmeet. Period. However, there IS a "bug"/feature that by-passes this. Simply do NOT start up the Romance before Landsmeet. After Landsmeet, give him Duncan's SHield and/or his mother's Amulet. WIth the Right Dialogue choices, the Romance will start, letting you stay with even a non-hardened Alistair. Shame on Bioware for not getting this right.....
As for Anora non-married, she is sent to the Tower, yes, but nothing else is said. MY suspiscions: She is quietly killed, since she DOES refuse to make the Oath to not seek the Crown for herself or her Offspring. Reason: Take the Title & Wealth reward from Alistair. You gain Loghain's old title.
Supporting Anora over Alistair: Hardened, this Ticks him off big-time. Non-hardened, this pleases him. Either way, Anora DOES try to have him killed, but with persuasion, you can convince her to let him give the oath not to seek the throne. EIther way, he will give it.
As regards to Awakening: There isn't enough knowledge about it. the One statement I heard, that many PC choices would carry over, was actually retracted. We have no real choice but to wait and see. But after viewing that children trailer, I make this oath: my first character to port over will be the Pyromancer. Lets see how those creepies like fire!
-- GD