Jack of blades...in d&d?

Janos1 · Post by **Janos1** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:53 am

Hey im real curious about something, i wanted to blend jack of blades (from fable) in the d&d setting, preferably 3.5, but im really unsure of how to create him as a character, so i would like to ask for any opinions on class lvls, templates, feats, skills etc...feel free to reccomend epic lvl or use any source books or supplements from 3.0 or 3.5 in your suggestions, as i have all of them in pdf format anyway, i just really need heeeeelp

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:06 am

I'd say he's a multiclass Warblade/Crusader.

Demortis · Post by **Demortis** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:00 pm

GawainBS wrote:I'd say he's a multiclass Warblade/Crusader.

Hes not divine. Id say more fighter/rogue. He focused more on the "crowd pleasing" skills. Bluff, intimidate, sense motive, diplomacy, profession (gladiator). But thats just my idea of him.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:17 pm

Demortis wrote:Hes not divine. Id say more fighter/rogue. He focused more on the "crowd pleasing" skills. Bluff, intimidate, sense motive, diplomacy, profession (gladiator). But thats just my idea of him.

Warblade still does that better than Fighter/Rogue, and as for the Crusader: the divine aspect is just flavour. You're free to alter it. I feel that the mechanics make the best representation of Jack.

Demortis · Post by **Demortis** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:33 pm

True, true. could throw sword sage in there or lvls of a caster class too

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:53 pm

Swordsage requires light armour, and jack wore heavy, IIRC. Only a few levels of caster classes are generally a bad idea in D&D.

Demortis · Post by **Demortis** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:47 am

true, but there are rules that help something like that, Gestalt for one. Warblade/Warmage. And all you would need is BattleMage I believe. It allows you to Equip heavier armor. And in any case, Warblade can only use Med at best, so the fact that both classes combined into the Gestalt bit means that they both get Med at about the same time, and can cast and whip some people.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:52 am

Demortis wrote:true, but there are rules that help something like that, Gestalt for one. Warblade/Warmage. And all you would need is BattleMage I believe. It allows you to Equip heavier armor. And in any case, Warblade can only use Med at best, so the fact that both classes combined into the Gestalt bit means that they both get Med at about the same time, and can cast and whip some people.

a) Gesthalt isn't everyone's cup of tea, since it is only used in high powered campaigns.
b) Why Warmage? I don't see how this fits Jack at all. Secondly, it meshes terribly with Warblade, and it's also a very weak class. Thirdly, if you absoluty want to add some caster levels to Jack, I think Beguiler fits him better. (And also meshes better with Warblade.)
c) Heavy Armour is no problem for the Warblade: either a dip in Crusader or Fighter solves it. Both are good choices, Crusader more so. Then again, with Mithril Fullplate, why care about Heavy Armour? Heck, with the speed reduction that even Medium Armour brings, I'd be sorely tempted to stick with Light Armour.

Demortis · Post by **Demortis** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:21 am

GawainBS wrote:a) Gesthalt isn't everyone's cup of tea, since it is only used in high powered campaigns.
b) Why Warmage? I don't see how this fits Jack at all. Secondly, it meshes terribly with Warblade, and it's also a very weak class. Thirdly, if you absoluty want to add some caster levels to Jack, I think Beguiler fits him better. (And also meshes better with Warblade.)
c) Heavy Armour is no problem for the Warblade: either a dip in Crusader or Fighter solves it. Both are good choices, Crusader more so. Then again, with Mithril Fullplate, why care about Heavy Armour? Heck, with the speed reduction that even Medium Armour brings, I'd be sorely tempted to stick with Light Armour.

Warmage for the simple fact that at the end of the first game he does cast. AND the only weakness the class has is in its lack of support characteristics. Its meant to take raw power Arcane, and desimate entire worlds.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:54 am

Demortis wrote:Warmage for the simple fact that at the end of the first game he does cast. AND the only weakness the class has is in its lack of support characteristics. Its meant to take raw power Arcane, and desimate entire worlds.

That "only" weakness is exactly what makes it weak: (almost) only offensive spells, and in D&D damage spells scale horribly bad compared to monster's HP. In the end, the Warmage (barring PrCing) is an archer that uses spells, and a real archer probably shoots better.

Demortis · Post by **Demortis** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:44 pm

GawainBS wrote:That "only" weakness is exactly what makes it weak: (almost) only offensive spells, and in D&D damage spells scale horribly bad compared to monster's HP. In the end, the Warmage (barring PrCing) is an archer that uses spells, and a real archer probably shoots better.

And most creatures have DR/ non spell weapons. And true that most have spell resist, But a caster can still overcome it rather then have to hope to all mighty that he has the right gear.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:55 pm

Demortis wrote:And most creatures have DR/ non spell weapons. And true that most have spell resist, But a caster can still overcome it rather then have to hope to all mighty that he has the right gear.

a) By the time DR comes in to play, you have the Wealth By Level to purchase Transmuting/Metalline/Force weapons. If you don't, your DM isn't sticking to WBL and has stopped playing D&D as intended. Ironically, because the Warmage lacks utility spells, he is almost as gear dependant as melee/archers, since only his method of dealing damage differs.
b) Most damage spells have an elemental type, and those are resisted quite common too. Moreover, damagespells scale very bad compared to monster HP. (on average, +1d6/encounter level, i.e. party level vs + 2d8+3 (CON mod)/encounter level of the monster). There are exceptions to this, but none of them apply to the Warmage.
c) Fullcasters are absurdly powerful, thanks to the utility spells, not the damagespells. Sleep, Glitterdust, Wall of Force/Stone, Fly, etc. virtually end encounters in the first round.

Janos1 · Post by **Janos1** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:43 am

So im imagining some sorta fighter/rouge who can cast some sorta spell? what do you think he would be lvl wise?

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:23 pm

If you're planning on using him in a campaign as a villain, let his level be dependant on the party. Otherwise, I'd say somewhere around 15?
Another suggestion: He's a Warblade4/Paladin of Slaughter (or Tyranny)2/SuelArcanaMech4/AbjurantChampion5.
He can cast spells, he can fight, and he has pretty good skills to boot. SuelArcanaMech is from Complete Arcane, AbjurantChampion from Complete Mage. The Paladins are from [url="http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/unearthedCoreClass.html#freedom-slaughter-and-tyranny"]Unearthed Arcana or the SRD[/url].