Understanding the Planes

Makatak · Post by **Makatak** » Mon May 10, 2010 6:01 am

Almost all of the game takes place a number of outer planes, right? Aren't they the intangible planes of different alignments and beliefs where people on the prime material go upon death? If so, then how can the player be immortal? Or is death on the material plane just one stage of death that transfers people to the outlands (true neutral) and then a 2nd death transfers them to one of the other outer planes, based on their alignment?

Ares2382 · Post by **Ares2382** » Mon May 10, 2010 7:53 am

Well, I think what it is, is that when a prime dies, depending on how evil or how good (and how lawful or chaotic) he was, his thoughts actually materialise as a physical body on the appropriate plane.

Now that's not the only way to travel the planes though. One can go either via powerful spells or portals. Although, from what I understand of the Planescape universe, portals are not all that common when it comes to the Prime Material plane. There are also some items that exist in the Prime Material that allow one to travel as well. This is a list:

- Amulet of the planes
- Cubic gate
- Mirror of mental prowess
- Oil of etherealness
- Plate mail of etherealness
- Robe of stars
- Rod of passage
- Staff of the magi
- Trimia's catalogue of Outer Plane artifacts
- Well of many worlds

This is all from the DM's Guide to Planes.

Outside of the Prime Material plane travel between the planes is a bit easier. One can use Portals, Astral Conduits, and Elemental Vortices. Also there is something called The Great Road, which has a portal to each of the planes I believe, but unlike the portals in Torment, these don't require any kind of a key.

I'm not an expert though, so I don't know how accurate this info is, maybe someone with more knowledge of the universe can fill in any gaps.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon May 10, 2010 8:10 am

If you track down a D&D 3.0/3.5 Manual of the Planes, Planar Hand or 3.5 DMG, you can learn a lot more. Second edition also has several books on it, but those tend to be rarer.
The latest D&D (4th Edition) has messed up the whole D&D universe, so that won't help you.

A mortal goes to the plane corresponding his alignment upon death, and becomes a "petitioner" there, IIRC. They are outsiders, but look like they did in life, but have no or very, very faint, memories of their life.
Alternatively, they become the least form of resident outsider (Demon, Devil, Celestial, etc.) and can work they way up in the hierarchy.

Makatak · Post by **Makatak** » Mon May 10, 2010 8:41 am

So then the people you come across in Sigil are people that were of true neutral alignment as a prime/mortal? Since Sigil is floating above a spire in the outlands, which is like the central outer plane of neutral alignment. Or is sigil a different plane in and of itself?

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon May 10, 2010 8:46 am

Makatak wrote:So then the people you come across in Sigil are people that were of true neutral alignment as a prime/mortal? Since Sigil is floating above a spire in the outlands, which is like the central outer plane of neutral alignment. Or is sigil a different plane in and of itself?

No, it's also possible to enter the planes physically. In fact, most inhabitants are just people who were born there, or moved there.

RPGguy · Post by **RPGguy** » Mon May 10, 2010 9:01 am

Makatak wrote:So then the people you come across in Sigil are people that were of true neutral alignment as a prime/mortal? Since Sigil is floating above a spire in the outlands, which is like the central outer plane of neutral alignment. Or is sigil a different plane in and of itself?

Sigil is a city, located with the the plane known as the Outlands which are neutral-aligned.

The Lady maintains the natural order (i.e. neutrality) of this key city which connects to every other plane, the unique property of Sigil. Connection to a plane (or planes), is a threat. If a connecting plane begins to dominate your own, then dominated plane risks 'shifting' into the dominating plane. Hence, the need for the Lady. Without her, the unique properties of Sigil expose the Outlands to being consumed into any one of countless connecting planes.

That's my understanding of it.

Ares2382 · Post by **Ares2382** » Mon May 10, 2010 10:19 am

@Makatak, check out these .pdf

I don't know if they will answer your questions or not, but they do have lots of information on the planes.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon May 10, 2010 10:47 am

Gamebanshee has a strict policy about piracy, so I'd delete those links ASAP...

Ares2382 · Post by **Ares2382** » Mon May 10, 2010 4:50 pm

I'm not aware whether these two items are or are not copyright protected. I simply them by googling for them. It's not from some illegal website (at least not to my knowledge).

If the Mods here believe that this is indeed copyrighter material I'd be happy to remove them.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue May 11, 2010 9:50 am

The Planar Handbook certainly is copyright protected, and states so in its first few pages.

Majorman · Post by **Majorman** » Wed May 12, 2010 3:24 pm

[url="http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Planes"]A little about the planes.[/url]

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu May 13, 2010 2:50 am

My favourite is the Great Wheel cosmology, which also interacts with all the other worlds TSR has created. It's also the cosmology Planescape uses.

Makatak · Post by **Makatak** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:55 am

So was TNO a primer or a planewalker when he decided to become Immortal?

And didn't Dhall say that the existence on the planes is a "shadow of life" that people go to after they die, but before seeking true death? Is the extraplanar city of Sigil an exception to that?

Is true death complete and utter non-existence on all planes or is it the process of transferring to one of the other outer planes like the Abyss or Celestia?

N4melessOn3 · Post by **N4melessOn3** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:15 pm

Ok the best way to imagine the Outer Planes are like heavens and hells and the afterlife mortal souls go after death.Also they are the home of the gods or ''powers'' as planars call them.They are belief made manifest.There are also the Inner Planes who represent substance instead of belief.Water,Air,Earth,Fire etc.The planes are ''infinite''.that means that you can't really say where Sigil is as one person can't really walk from one plane to another but rather they use a portal to go from one place to another.

Mortals can be Primes or Planars.That means they are either born on the Prime Material Plane(Toril,Krynn,Oerth,Athas,Eberron,Earth or whathaveyou)or they are BORN on the Planes.A planewalker is basically a person who travels the planes.

Primes can travel to the planes by magic or by using portals in their prime worlds.

Both Primes AND Planars when they die go to the plane who matches their alignment in life or they go to the plane where their god resides(if they believed in one) in the form of a Petitioner.Petitioners are the spirits of mortals and their goal is to merge with their plane or to serve their god in afterlife.

TNO is a special individual.he is kept alive by Ravel's dark magic but everytime he dies he loses his memories and must start again.Also some poor soul dies in his place so he can live again.

What Dhall says in the game about True Death is based on the philosophy of his faction called the Dustmen.There are many more factions and sects on the plane each one having a different belief about what the planes are and should be.So the idea of True Death is just one idea among many more.Belief is power on the planes and all these ideas exist at the same time.

Planescape in general is very difficult to wrap your mind around and Planescape Torment just shows a little fraction of it...

Visit these sites to find out more:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Planescape

Planescape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Planescape: I am the Mimir

Planewalker