Daylight Hours In The Game...

[alyndrya]

Hi everyone,

This is only my fourth post ever here in the forum, so please bear with me if this subject has been raised before. I did a search of the forum but could not find anything about daylight.

Something always bugged me with the game, considering that it is so fully-immersing for the player-and that is daylight hours. I love it so much I play it over and over with new characters.

Sunlight will naturally kill our character and with all the fabulous new mods coming out, I wondered if anyone had considered adding in daylight hours to the game. Not in real-time of course, but a certain in-game time where the sun begins to rise and we have to quickly get our character back to his/her Haven before they turn to dust.

Sure, they would be somewhat trapped, but there are things that you can do. Such as moving about in whatever building, sewer or hidey-hole you got to before the sun rose. If you’re in a building, you would need to stick to the shadows, or pulling down curtains. Moving through the sewers could get you to a lot of places to continue with your quests. Full contact with the sun can mean the character will die, but brief contact would mean only some minimal bloodloss.

I just thought I would raise this topic, because it would add such an exciting and adventurous spin to the game. A realistic one too, since the sun is a big factor with vampires.

Regards,
Alyndrya

[Shizz]

I can see your point; and yes, had it been designed this way, this could have been exiting. The way the game is set up, however, it would be more annoying than anything else.
In order to really make it feel immersive and realistic, daylight would have to be about as long as the night - keeping you trapped in buildings for half the game. Sewers are rarely connecting buildings; usually they open up to a street, and even if it's an ally that means instant vampire-in-a-box... and "external" quests can only be reached via cab - again, not accessible in daylight. So basically, one would spend half the actual game-time waiting for the sun to go down. Not exactly fun.
If, on the other hand, one would try to introduce "short" days - 5-10 Minutes - it stops being a gameplay mechanism and starts being a nuisance; it won't immerse the player further into the game, but force him to interrupt the flow of the game by parking his char in a building and grabbing a coffee.
So, yeah, even if daylight would be possible (which it most probably isn't) it would break the flow of the game and/or kill immersion along the way.
Just my 2 cents

[Sir Twist]

Actually, I think the daylight is what happens in between places, or between "chapters." The first evidence is when you wake up in your first place in Santa Monica. I believe that sunlight happens when you finish a major mission in the game. Or during cab rides.

[Enwah]

Hey everybody ! First post for me here.
Sunlight could make things interesting. Your character could dispatch an ornery sabbat by shooting out a window. A ghoul could be sent with a body bag to rescue his master who was stuck somewhere. In a Morrowind add-on, a vampire could have a enchanted cloak or SunShield Amulet to tolerate some sunlight.
Morrowind's game engine had a time keeping device but it seems Bloodlines only keeps up with actions. Though I LOVE Morrowind, I'm really enjoying Bloodlines. I got the game several years ago and played without a walkthru, I quit playing after the Leopold crash, never finished. I recently looked for games I had that would run on my nVidia 6100 laptop and installed Bloodlines. I'm playing un-patched, Brujah and I'm at the end game.
Who was the demented soul at Troika who wrote the dialog. Parts of it made me laugh out loud. Like what Damsel said she would do to Ming. There is just so much to like here that I'm willing to put up with flaws. When you live in a world of darkness ya got to expect some things to go bump in the night.

[Argent Blood]

I can see your point; and yes, had it been designed this way, this could have been exiting. The way the game is set up, however, it would be more annoying than anything else.
In order to really make it feel immersive and realistic, daylight would have to be about as long as the night - keeping you trapped in buildings for half the game. Sewers are rarely connecting buildings; usually they open up to a street, and even if it's an ally that means instant vampire-in-a-box... and "external" quests can only be reached via cab - again, not accessible in daylight. So basically, one would spend half the actual game-time waiting for the sun to go down. Not exactly fun.
If, on the other hand, one would try to introduce "short" days - 5-10 Minutes - it stops being a gameplay mechanism and starts being a nuisance; it won't immerse the player further into the game, but force him to interrupt the flow of the game by parking his char in a building and grabbing a coffee.
So, yeah, even if daylight would be possible (which it most probably isn't) it would break the flow of the game and/or kill immersion along the way.
Just my 2 cents

Most games that involve Vampires either have Sunlight as a health draining effect(BloodRayne 2), or having it cause the player to lose their Vampiric powers(DarkWatch), rather than making the "sunlit" area cause instant death. While some parts of Vampire mediums don't go for the long-standing idea that the presences of sunlight on a the skin of a Vampire means instant death, it might cause them a lot of pain, and possibly chared skin(ala True Blood). Either way, the closest you get to sunlight in the game(actually seeing it, that is), would be the break in the clouds during the endgame.

Actually, I think the daylight is what happens in between places, or between "chapters." The first evidence is when you wake up in your first place in Santa Monica. I believe that sunlight happens when you finish a major mission in the game. Or during cab rides.

This is pretty much what I think of it as well, though not exactly during the cab rides, even if the windows might be tinted(or blacked out, like the "Daylight" mode for cars in Daybreakers).

[Shizz]

Most games that involve Vampires either have Sunlight as a health draining effect(BloodRayne 2), or having it cause the player to lose their Vampiric powers(DarkWatch), rather than making the "sunlit" area cause instant death.

True But iBloodlines is based on a P&P-RPG in which sunlight is AFAIK more or less instantly lethal. One could take creative liberties, sure, but personally I'm opposed to that. But that's obviously a personal preference, so yeah.... letting the sunlight do aggravated damage would be a solution
Still, this only would have worked if the game had been set up like that in the first way, since as it is now, one would merely "die" after a few seconds instead of instantly

[Sir Twist]

Personally, I think that the sunlight does two things. First of all in indirect sunlight, you go into a sort of stupor. Second, if it gets on you directly, you start to fry. Another factor is the "age" of the kine that you play. Check out the Anita Blake series for some more about this. Anyway, getting back on point, and depending on a couple factors, and the exception of the first haven in Santa Monica, your subsequent havens do not seem to have windows. Oh there maybe windows, but where you "sleep" doesn't have them.
Adding sunlight to the game may take a ton of work, unless you want to do a limited addition to the game, say a small part with a quest. Or it could be that you get another, temporary, ghoul, and take control of them during daylight hours.

[Shizz]

Don't think it can be done, really. That would already be very difficult if working with a game that has a proper SDK or at least basic mod tools... VTMB has neither. I'm not a modder, though, so I might be wrong on that account

[Argent Blood]

True But iBloodlines is based on a P&P-RPG in which sunlight is AFAIK more or less instantly lethal. One could take creative liberties, sure, but personally I'm opposed to that. But that's obviously a personal preference, so yeah.... letting the sunlight do aggravated damage would be a solution
Still, this only would have worked if the game had been set up like that in the first way, since as it is now, one would merely "die" after a few seconds instead of instantly

Playing a "True" Vampire in a game, lets face it, would just be completely annoying. At least when the universe rules for Vampires make it such, even if the story doesn't make it clear(though converted to a game, it becomes all to apparent). That is mostly why any game that involves Vampires either has the game take place completely at night, letting the player avoid dealing with sunlight, even if it is clear that time passes in-game. Or if there is sunlight during parts of the game, again, it only drains health, rather than causing instant death.

Don't think it can be done, really. That would already be very difficult if working with a game that has a proper SDK or at least basic mod tools... VTMB has neither. I'm not a modder, though, so I might be wrong on that account

You might be able to edit the skyboxes to look like daylight, but unless there is a way to have these change periodically, it would just replace the originals. Adding the damage effect might be possible, which would likely be similar to the "Blood-loss" effect in the Camarilla Edition. Though this would only be fitting for certain areas of the game, else it would just be come annoying, compared to how most are used to the game.

[Shizz]

Playing a "True" Vampire in a game, lets face it, would just be completely annoying.

...which is the point I was trying to make in my first post.
So, yeah, complete agreement there. The way I see it, three options present themselves:
- "Skipping" daylight the way VTMB did
- Working daylight into the game either via special events or by allowing the player to bypass sunlit areas during the days (this could have been done beautifully with the sewer system, but, alas, it was not to be...)
- Giving the player some means to counter the effects of sunlight - which would more or less completely ruin the original spirit of the P&P (at least for me - I'm sure others would see it as an acceptable compromise )

Personally, I'd have loved option #2 and hated option #3, but that's really down to preference.

You might be able to edit the skyboxes to look like daylight, but unless there is a way to have these change periodically, it would just replace the originals.

Again, I'm not a modder, but AFAIK it's not as easy as that, since the skybox and the lighting are not connected... having a blue and bright skybox over a nightly city would look... weird, to say the least. Editing VTMB maps is extremely hard anyway since there's no map editor... can't see a change like that being done. But I guess Wesp and co. are the authorities there.

[Wesp5]

Editing VTMB maps is extremely hard anyway since there's no map editor... can't see a change like that being done. But I guess Wesp and co. are the authorities there.

I don't think this would be possible without a real map editor and SDK.

[Assja]

Hi!
Have you Guys ever read a Novel or Anything about the p&p Game? Vampires lay in Torpor during the Day and can only wake with much difficulty(and that only with rather high abillities (my Larp-Malk manages something like half an Hour and that only with costs) . Anyway it would complicate everything, because it would mean that time actually passes and lead to complication. Like when time is a problem like (sorry Spoiler) Hunting the Vamp on the scrabyard he certanily wouldn't wait days to your conveniace.

Assja

[Argent Blood]

Hi!
Have you Guys ever read a Novel or Anything about the p&p Game? Vampires lay in Torpor during the Day and can only wake with much difficulty(and that only with rather high abillities (my Larp-Malk manages something like half an Hour and that only with costs) . Anyway it would complicate everything, because it would mean that time actually passes and lead to complication. Like when time is a problem like (sorry Spoiler) Hunting the Vamp on the scrabyard he certanily wouldn't wait days to your conveniace.

Assja

Some have probably heard about that, if not actually having played the original game, or read the books. And it might work there, but not exactly in a game like Bloodlines. First and foremost, is the fact that the daylight is only implied in the game, and never shown. Having a Mechanic in a game like that, would be pretty much useless - for obvious reasons. Not just because it would be boring to have the "Sleeping-Cuts"(think Fable or any game like it), where you chose to sleep in the bed, and time skips ahead, until you wake up. Sure, you have fifteen points of blood to spend, but sometimes you need them all very quickly.

Even Redemption had sunlight in one section, and that wasn't even a period when Christoph was sleeping. I don't know if he expends a point to wake later in the game, but I can't say for sure.

[Assja]

Hi!
That was actually an Argument against having Daylight...And as this is still the World of Darkness sun can only be withstood with Fortitude (a dicipline) (for minutes... Backet manages to run the length of a Football field but he's old) unless your Settite... but this is another story...

Assja

[Argent Blood]

Hi!
That was actually an Argument against having Daylight...And as this is still the World of Darkness sun can only be withstood with Fortitude (a dicipline) (for minutes... Backet manages to run the length of a Football field but he's old) unless your Settite... but this is another story...

Assja

Well, I pretty much feel the same way. It doesn't matter how its done, having sunlight in a game where you play as a Vampire, having sunlight isn't a challenge to get around(depending on exactly what it does), its annoying.

For instance: BloodRayne avoided it entirely, though it would've have been that much of a problem. The closest you get to it is what looks like a cloudy day during the second act. However, the only thing that damaged Rayne in leiu of sunlight, is water. which is somewhat abundant through the game, though most of Act 2 and 3, it is absent.

The section game, however, had Sunlight during the middle of the game. Just like the water in the first game, standing in a lit area shaved points off your health for as long as you stood in it(which is only because she's a Dhampir, or half-Vampire).

It is better when a game just avoids it, or only includes it in cutscenes(or has it somewhere that you don't have to deal with it).

[Assja]

Hi!
Well, I don't know the other games, I don't play much and prefer Larp and Pen and Paper. But Bloodlines bases on White Wolve's WOD and there exist certain rules. Like that one of the most dangerous things is Sunlight (or rather the magical qualities of the sun) and that a Vampire sleeps during the day. You could follow Mercurio or one of the other Gouls though.

Assja

[Shizz]

Not to interrupt... but what are you guys discussing here? After all, you seem to be of the same mind on this issue.

[Sir Twist]

Ok, here's the whole ball of wax in a nutshell. Vampires and sunlight do not mix. For a vampire to survive at all in the sunlight, you must weigh a ton of factors. Are we talking Anita Blake vampires, or are we talking Buffy vampires, or are we talking V:TMR vampires, or even Bram Stoker's fabled vampires, or Blade vampires? Ok, basically, they all have severe reaction to sunlight, to one degree or another. Either they enter torpor, get severely burned, or even ash. The speed depends on the person writing this stuff. Anyway, daylight is not a vampire's best friend. But there are ways around it. Sewers, and other things help.