"Dark and Mature" (Spoilers)

[dragon wench]

After having run three different characters through the Deep Roads and reflected upon a particular section... I find myself compelled to post.

Now, Bioware touted this game as "dark and mature" but up until I reached the scene leading up to the fight with the Brood Mother I questioned those descriptives.. Yes, it was dark in places, as were some of the themes.. but there was nothing overly jarring. As far as "mature" goes... I'd personally describe the disneyfied sex scenes as sad and tepid.

However, nothing quite prepared me for that first encounter with Hespith... I was playing late at night.. and all of a sudden there was that monotone voice reciting a chilling poem that all but vividly described mass gang rape and cannibalism. And if it isn't.. than it's most certainly a metaphor for the same.
Then, upon seeing Hespith rather just hearing her disembodied voice the entire verse is recited in full... After that... the Broodmother.

*shudder*

In my view, that section, if nothing else gives the game it's mature rating.

I suppose, kudos to the devs, when something gets to you in a game, they've done something right. But still, like I said, I wasn't exactly prepared for anything quite like that.

I'm not sure, really, what my point is here... But, I guess, just wondering if anybody else was affected in the same way.
Or, was there any other point in the game that hit you?

[DesR85]

Or, was there any other point in the game that hit you?

No. Maybe the massacre at the orphanage in the Elven Alienage, which reminds me of the sheer brutality and savagery of humanity (or, to put it mildly, the animal-like nature of humanity), but other than that, nothing in the game shake me in any way, including that scenario.

The game had its good moments, but there are times where it screams juvenile, particularly the excessive blood splatter, including Loghain's execution. Seems that they want to cater to the Gears of War/God of War crowd aside from the usual RPG crowd...

[Tricky]

Maybe what you see it what you get. Perhaps they tried to make the ESRB rating work fór them. It's not unbecoming of Bioware to make óne little cene/sequence in a game determine the rating & the amount of fanboys that will rush out to the store to preorder.

[Pulverizer]

I'm not sure, really, what my point is here... But, I guess, just wondering if anybody else was affected in the same way.
Or, was there any other point in the game that hit you?

I for one was affected much the same way... I found that section of the game very well done, and you captured my feelings exactly. I really felt a great deal of pity for Hespith, and after meeting her and facing the brood-mother, I had already decided there would be no negotiating with Branka (in addition to the horrible consciousness transfer mechanism involved in the creation of golems -- although I saw that one coming having played Jade Empire).

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=Des]No. Maybe the massacre at the orphanage in the Elven Alienage, which reminds me of the sheer brutality and savagery of humanity[/QUOTE]

Interesting you should mention that. I wondered why I wasn't affected all that much by the Elven Alienage events (that and the origins story), because they too are brutal and horrific. I suspect it's because those events are fairly clichéd, especially the origins section. So maybe it's a case of being desensitised?
The Hespith scene though.. it went far beyond the usual boundaries, and it was the entire combination of the acts described, the unpleasant setting... the Dark Spawn as the perpetrators, and Branka allowing and encouraging it. It reminds me of a movie I saw years ago. Normally, I'm not that affected by graphic/violent content in films.. but when I saw [url="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097108/"]The Cook the Thief His Wife & Her Lover[/url] a threshold was crossed for me.. it was too much.


[QUOTE=Pulverizer]I really felt a great deal of pity for Hespith, and after meeting her and facing the brood-mother, I had already decided there would be no negotiating with Branka (in addition to the horrible consciousness transfer mechanism involved in the creation of golems[/QUOTE]

Exactly.. At that point, I knew Branka was going to die. When I play games, I generally try to avoid killing NPCs where possible. I didn't even know then that I'd have to choose between Branka and Caridin, but I was so appalled, I determined that if I had the opportunity Branka would pay....

[flix]

Agreed Dragon wench. The Broodmother build-up was horror, something that doesn't show up in fantasy RPG's too often (and I don't mean fighting undead, I mean the tone and atmosphere is actually one of horror).

The closest thing I felt to this elsewhere in the game was investigating the 'Something Wicked' quest with the blind templar in the Elven Alienage, as others mentioned. The little ghost kid singing, "I'm falling, Sir Wilhelm, and I'm dying Sir Wilhelm, Sir Wilhelm today...." the other insane ghosts, the cinematics from the demon's POV, and the brave but doomed templar companion, all great elements.

I mention that sequence because of the unsettling feeling it gave me. I can't really think of any other games (aside from survival horror games) that create that feeling of unease.

[dragon wench]

@Flix,
indeed.. I think it's because in the case of both the Alienage scene and the Hespith section we're dealing with psychological horror... and that is far more unsettling than any kind of tangible, visceral undead fighting and the like. It's why, although I found the image of the Broodmother gross, I had far less trouble with the actual battle.

Also, in both situations they are using narration to describe events that have already happened... in a way that was deeply chilling... even more so, I suspect, because they are completed and in the past, you can't reverse what has occurred.
And, of course, you fill in the blanks with your imagination, which is often far more horrific than any created scene.

[DesR85]

Interesting you should mention that. I wondered why I wasn't affected all that much by the Elven Alienage events (that and the origins story), because they too are brutal and horrific. I suspect it's because those events are fairly clichéd, especially the origins section. So maybe it's a case of being desensitised?

Maybe, or it could be because it was told in a rather predictable or ham-fisted way, or it could be that since this is a fictitious story with made up races and events, it is difficult for the writer(s) to portray it rather convincingly. Heck, even in the book, "The Silmarillion" by J.R.R. Tolkien, there are massacres committed by the Morgoth's forces (the bad guy) against both Elven and human cities and villages but it didn't affect me in any way.

[Moot]

I noticed there were plenty of...references to mature subjects. Such as the oppression of the Elves, sexual references, the idea behind the whole darkspawn war, the Gray Wardens and their duty, the betrayal of the king etc etc. Many of these things would have great impact on people in reality, and I see what Bioware was trying to do. However, none of these things were really visually depicted or actually talked about in-depth. The grabbing, emotional experience you would have normally felt almost seemed to be purposely avoided. (That, or I could just be an emotionless, heartless bastard.) I was very interested in Dragon Age, but there was no particular section of the game that gave me that "stay up 'till dawn because you can't put the controller down" feeling. Not that it wasn't a good game.

[GB_dodger]

Re: Dark & Mature

DragonWench,

The scene that disturbed me the most was the offer of the dark ritual from Morrigan. I was trying to play as a "good" Rogue/Ranger (who ought to have declined her ritual), but the way that scene played out, I couldn't help but agree to her offer. It messed with my emotions in real-life! The game-induced emotions were so strong that I felt like I was doing something wrong, so I actually apologized to my real-life girlfriend! To top it off, I couldn't turn her down, even though I knew it was coming (thanks to all the help on GB!)

I'm a middle-aged man, so I wonder how that scene affected some teenaged boys?

GB_Dodger

[galraen]

The scene that disturbed me the most was the offer of the dark ritual from Morrigan.

That was the one aspect that really stood out for me in role-playing terms, I failed also. Even more disturbing is wondering how one would respond in real life! Would one do the 'right thing' or would one chose to save one's own life in exchange for letting potential evil loose on the world? Because I definitely see a sequel coming where someone has to save the world from the horrors accepting the evil bitch's offer will almost certainly unleash. It's just a shame the game is so poor that I think it extremely unlikely I'll bother with any sequels.

[Stworca]

Broodmother chant was indeed top notch, but other moments that i realy liked were :

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsJIU5Sbl1Y"]One[/url]
Why? Because normaly kids are untouchable in games. In this one you can -almost- go berserk on them. As a mage there is an even more "Dark and Mature" way to solve this. Kill his annoying mother (i cba to go to the circle of magi tower for help) and trade Connors soul to a demon for pleasure, power... Lovely.

Next was.. Well, you'll have to wait for my DA: Review I'll post it once i finish it.

Overall Dragon Age is quite "Dark and Mature" at times (not too often) although most could and SHOULD go much deeper..

[Gartar]

The Broodmother scene defiantly got to me(though it had mostly been spoiled by one of the trailers that was released before the game ), the Connor scene was pretty dark, where I basically had to ''man up'' and sacrifice the mother to enter the fade and free the boy(since it seemed pretty clear that if you went to the circle more evil would be unleashed in the time it took you to travel, which sadly it doesn't, it makes no difference at all it would have been very cool if they had undead go out and kill an entire village or something while you traveled to the circle and back). One of the most dark scenes in the game for me was on my evil human rogue, where I basically had the werewolfs slaughter the entire Dalish camp, there were a few other very dark things I did on that character, like having Connors mother kill him herself.

In the Awakening expansion, I found the whole Blackmarch(I think it was called, not sure, the swamp with the Baroness) to be a very dark place, I found most of the quests in it to be unsettling.

[DesR85]

I noticed there were plenty of...references to mature subjects. Such as the oppression of the Elves, sexual references, the idea behind the whole darkspawn war, the Gray Wardens and their duty, the betrayal of the king etc etc. Many of these things would have great impact on people in reality, and I see what Bioware was trying to do. However, none of these things were really visually depicted or actually talked about in-depth. The grabbing, emotional experience you would have normally felt almost seemed to be purposely avoided. (That, or I could just be an emotionless, heartless bastard.)

In other words, it seems like Bioware had some sort of check-list of 'dark and mature' topics to add into the game and I'm not surprised if most of whatever is in that check-list made it there. Rape, politics, murder, racism, etc. You name it, they have it. As what one person in another forum pointed out, it looks like Bioware is crowd-pleasing with this game and I suspect that they're trying to stand out among crowd by introducing such topics in the game. I doubt being desensitised (or not) have anything to do with it.