Does The Sleeper affect mainhand attacks from offhand? ...and other item questions

Adieu · Post by **Adieu** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:02 pm

I had The Sleeper in offhand for a bit while my C/R multi was off looking for something harder-hitting at the start of the game... IIRC, it had a horrendous save penalty of like +4, yet I was getting KOed enemies all over the place, despite it only attacking once per round. SO - is the item text wrong and it's actually a bonus not a penalty, do baddies' saves vs. sleep suck so hard, or does it stack its sleeping effect onto your main weapon when in offhand??

Another question: is daystar +2/+4 or +2+4=+6? If it's the latter, then do its effects also apply to mainhand attacks if it is in the off hand?

What about FotA's slow, CF's stun, stat-draining gear like HaerDalis' personal weapon, the entangling short sword, etc.? (and yeah, I do see the apparent blasphemy of having FotA or CF in the off hand, but I'm a fan of small parties, and there's so much sweet stuff to go around for everyone...)

Thrar · Post by **Thrar** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:26 am

On-hit weapon effects are only applied to hits with that weapon. General effects (e.g. strength modification) are applied permanently.

The only peculiarity is that when using an off-hand weapon that grants an extra attack (e.g. Belm), the extra attack is actually performed with the main hand. More generally, when dual-wielding, you will always have one attack with the off-hand and all other attacks with the main hand.

I don't know about the Sleeper's save bonus/penalty.

Adieu · Post by **Adieu** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:10 pm

Weren't there people exploiting The Equalizer's bonuses from offhand to apply to all attacks? Or is Equalizer coded differently than Daystar?

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:46 pm

Daystar is a +2 weapon and +4 against undead (any more baddies than undead?)...

It is coded differently than equalizer. Equalizer is nice against those alignments that diverge the most particularly with melf minute meteors, equalizer in offhand. Also a good blade for a backstabber to ensure that they connect with the main hand (better stabbers for main hand but equalizer raises thaco of main hand.... crom faeyr does too). Nothing sucks worse than spending time and invisibility potions to whiff on your backstabs..

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:57 pm

I've always been fine using a single handed weapon, without any invisibility potions. Dual Wielding, despite the bonuses it may give, still lowers the THAC0 of the main hand, making it harder to hit enemies, even with the bonus THAC0 granted by Stealth. Only buffed fighter/mages and fighter/thieves should dual wield.

thebannedone · Post by **thebannedone** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:43 am

"Daystar is a +2 weapon and +4 against undead" -WRONG
"It is coded differently than equalizer." -And WRONG

I just don't like people giving out false information, so i'll correct this.

Daystar is +4 to dmg and +4 to thac0 against non-undead evil opponents, and +6 to physical dmg against non-evil undead and extra 1d8+2 magical dmg(which makes it good for interrupting liches trough stoneskin), and against evil undead its +4 to thac0 and +8 to physical dmg plus the extra magic dmg.

To your mainhand if using daystar in off-hand you get the +2 to thac0 against evil and +2 to dmg against evil, and +4 to dmg against undead, so everything except the extra magic dmg and the normal +2 enchantment of the sword. So yes its coded the same way as the Equalizer.

QuenGalad · Post by **QuenGalad** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:05 am

I'm no expert on coding, but I have spent some frustrating moments while trying to use Daystar on greater mummies and vampires, so it definitely isn't a +4 on undead. It's one of the most dissappointing weapons, in my oppinion - all that hype and then "weapon ineffective"

thebannedone · Post by **thebannedone** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:13 pm

"I'm no expert on coding, but I have spent some frustrating moments while trying to use Daystar on greater mummies and vampires, so it definitely isn't a +4 on undead."

Ah maybe i should have mentioned about the enchantment value of the weapon, but i thought that was kinda obvious. So yes, the Daystars enchantment as to what it can hit is always +2, and the enchantment value of what a weapon can hit never changes and cannot be changed. So even with Daystars awesome bonuses to dmg against undead, its still worthless as the mainweapon against greater mummies and a very few vampires, but even against those you would still benefit from its off-hand bonuses, and the most important ability to use the Sunray from it, so when you take all that account, i atleast wouldn't call it disappointing.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:26 pm

Thebannedone,

You took the words right out of my mouth.

the most important ability to use the Sunray from it, so when you take all that account, i atleast wouldn't call it disappointing.

I was certaintly not disappointed watching Shangalar of the Twisted Rune fry & die (permanently) :laugh:
The Undead Hunter I had made great use of it. Granted it would be awesome if it were +3, but I sure had fun. He kept it and is using it occasionally in ToB.

Dante2377 · Post by **Dante2377** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:41 am

Some of the fixpacks have the option for weapons that are +X, +Y vs some things, to always consider the weapon +Y for the purposes of "to hit". That way things like Daystar and the rest actually can do what they say.