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Stormlord build: Looking for critique.

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kayapo
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Stormlord build: Looking for critique.

Post by kayapo »

After playing through the OC with a "boring" "uber" melee class, I've been looking to build a battlecaster type.

I've toyed with many ideas, but after starting MOTB and finding a very good spear in the very first area I settled to try out a Stormlord build.

So this is what I came up with so far...

Stormlord of Talos | NWN2 Character Builder

I'm looking for some critique for this build or a possible Stormlord build for OC+MOTB. I'm pretty sure I get a lot wrong with this build. There is a lot about BAB progression, DC level etc that I don't quite know about.

So in short what's wrong with this build and how would you do it yourself? :p

Thanks!

note: I haven't completed the skill section of the build.
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Scottg
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Post by Scottg »

kayapo wrote:After playing through the OC with a "boring" "uber" melee class, I've been looking to build a battlecaster type.

I've toyed with many ideas, but after starting MOTB and finding a very good spear in the very first area I settled to try out a Stormlord build.

So this is what I came up with so far...

Stormlord of Talos | NWN2 Character Builder

I'm looking for some critique for this build or a possible Stormlord build for OC+MOTB. I'm pretty sure I get a lot wrong with this build. There is a lot about BAB progression, DC level etc that I don't quite know about.

So in short what's wrong with this build and how would you do it yourself? :p

Thanks!

note: I haven't completed the skill section of the build.


Go back and look at the build I just did for the Sacred Fist (..it has a similar structure).

You are missing out on Divine Might and Divine Shield for the character.
You also have Cleaves missing.

Spellcasting Prodigy is largely unnecessary with a Favored Soul.

Luck of Heros can be obtained from the "Luck" domain (for the Cleric class).

Starting off with Cleric requires a minimum 11 in Wisdom - something the Favored Soul doesn't need much of.

Power Critical Spear is a waste of a feat for anything but a build with many fighter levels.

You are missing Empower Spell.


Here is the build I'd recommend for something different with MOTB:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/never ... 17798.html
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Scottg
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Post by Scottg »

I just did this one:

Hoar's Pike | NWN2 Character Builder


It still doesn't have Empower Spell.. but that isn't critical.

It doesn't have Improved Critical or Power critical either..

It doesn't "cap-off" with class damage reduction either.. but Stone Body provides you with this, and more.

It certainly doesn't have much in the way of skills - and that *could* be a factor (..but frankly not much of one in MOTB).


What it *does* have is Divine Shield, Divine Might, and nearing the end: Epic Divine Might.

With a +8 Nymph Cloak that provides 18 divine damage per hit with Epic Divine Might.

It *also* has the Cleaves, ALL of them.

When you factor in the additional damage that you have from various sources (Strength bonus, Shocking, Sonic, added enhancements, spell buffs like Divine Favor, etc..) - it allows you to kill one opponent after another - in a *very* short span of time.

Still, it's not hugely different for most of it's use than a fighter-type.
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kayapo
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Post by kayapo »

Exactly what I was looking for!

Alright, I made some changes based on things you said.

Stormlord of Talos | NWN2 Character Builder

Now, the reason I'm not going for Epic Divine Might is because it seems like a lot to ask for a feat that will come only at level 29. I do intend to play this guy during the OC too after all. :p

I also made some changes on the order of feats based on what I assume would be nicer to have earlier.

Now the questions...

Shouldn't we squeeze in Practiced Spellcaster? In terms of gameplay what will a lower spell level do?

Assuming I'm not taking Divine Shield, is there a point to the 2 level of cleric? Would something else be better? How would you compare taking Divine Shield vs taking Improved Critical?

...while we are at it, what exactly does Power Critical do? :confused:

I know this character is not going to feel that much different from a full warrior type. I just couldn't muster the will to think about playing a caster yet.

I toyed with the idea of making a warlock, thought I don't think I can see myself playing a halfling seriously. :laugh:

I kind of miss the Kensai-mage. I thought about trying something like it but I can't quite see how to build one yet. Would he be like an Eldritch Knight?

Thanks for the help.
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Scottg
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Post by Scottg »

kayapo wrote:Exactly what I was looking for!

Alright, I made some changes based on things you said.

Stormlord of Talos | NWN2 Character Builder

Now, the reason I'm not going for Epic Divine Might is because it seems like a lot to ask for a feat that will come only at level 29. I do intend to play this guy during the OC too after all. :p

I also made some changes on the order of feats based on what I assume would be nicer to have earlier.

Now the questions...

Shouldn't we squeeze in Practiced Spellcaster? In terms of gameplay what will a lower spell level do?

Assuming I'm not taking Divine Shield, is there a point to the 2 level of cleric? Would something else be better? How would you compare taking Divine Shield vs taking Improved Critical?

...while we are at it, what exactly does Power Critical do? :confused:

I know this character is not going to feel that much different from a full warrior type. I just couldn't muster the will to think about playing a caster yet.

I toyed with the idea of making a warlock, thought I don't think I can see myself playing a halfling seriously. :laugh:

I kind of miss the Kensai-mage. I thought about trying something like it but I can't quite see how to build one yet. Would he be like an Eldritch Knight?

Thanks for the help.
1st problem: Cleric at level 21 - no need for it UNLESS you want Divine Shield. If you don't want an extra 9+ AC on demand, (and who doesn't), then change it to Favored Soul. Otherwise make the feat at that level Divine Shield.

2nd problem: 15 in Strength.. and it's "stuck" there for the rest of the build. Strength or Charisma?

3rd problem: Do you really need that much Charisma? At level 12 you have 19 Charisma, but you can only cast level *5* spells at that time. It isn't until level 20 that you need a 19 in Charisma (..and in fact you will never need more than 19, though it is nice for other reasons). You currently have it at 21 at level 20. DC is based on *WISDOM*, but really - of the few damage-type spells that are available, virtually all provide half-damage on a save, and most are either Will or Reflex (whereas most opponents are Fortitude types).


Practiced Spellcaster: Most spells stop leveling-up at 20 caster levels (or less) for damage or "power". Really only duration is much of a factor - where yes, it will marginally improve the length. It's also useful for Spell Penetration, and most of the offensive spells you have can be resisted. (..but opponents that can resist them are pretty rare - the highest in MOTB is I believe 30 from a pair of almost incidental Nightwalkers.) You get a 1d20 roll IN ADDITION to your class level, so if you have 20 levels you have almost a 50/50 chance of spell penetration against the Nightwalker. (..though realistically you would just walk up and hit him with your spear.) Up to you, but I don't think it's worth it.

There are 2 rolls to a critical: Threat, and Confirm. Power Critical improves the second roll but not the first.

Power Critical - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki - Races, classes, skills, and more
Critical hit - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki - Races, classes, skills, and more

The higher your attack bonus is, the less useful Power Critical becomes. The first role or "threat" roll is far more difficult to achieve. For a Spear you need to first roll a 20 (it's "threat range"). Improved Critical Spear would change this to 19-20. Keen does the same thing (as an enhancement to a weapon). Keen does NOT "stack" with Improved Critical.



Warlocks are different, and for MOTB I *highly* recommend them (especially for an evil character that is going to suck the soul of everything it comes across in a bid for Godhood). Halflings may be little, but they have what's needed - bonuses to ranged attacks that transfer to ranged touch attacks.


Spellsword.. is the term you are looking for. And realistically- NO you can't make a really good one (..unless you unbalance the system with Kaedrins classes).
The Eldritch Knight is the class for doing this, but it still doesn't work out that well.

Basically if you want a really offensive caster (and not a Warlock), then you need to focus on that and use an arcane class (Sorcerer or Wizard). IF you want to add-in occasional melee ability then you need to select 6th level Tenser's Transformation.

The other potential classes are Bard, OR Cleric/FS, OR Druid/SS.

Bard is stronger with melee using magic to provide defenses.
Cleric/FS is stronger with melee using magic to provide offenses and defenses.
Druid/SS is stronger with magic, but also is good with magical defenses. Druids are also the best summoning class available.

I can understand not wanting to go the Epic Divine Might route.. me thinks it's cheesy. (..though it did work out reasonably well for that build.) I personally prefer the Frenzied Berserker's Empowered Power Attack with a 2-handed weapon used as a 2-handed weapon. Your build removes most of this functionality by using the 2-handed weapon as a 1-handed weapon. That gives you the ability to use a shield, but in the FB's case it limits damage considerably. For the most part I'd rather hit Divine Shield and go without a regular shield for an FB build.
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kayapo
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Post by kayapo »

After taking another look at it, it does seem I don't gain all that much from not taking EDM after all. Maybe a better balance with stats but in the end it doesn't really add that much.

I settled for what is almost a carbon-copy of your build with only a few tweaks in the order of feats.

Also in your version you went with 12 wisdom and 8 inteligence.

Do I lose that much if I drop WIS to 10 and CON to 12 so that I can maintain 12 INT and not be too straped for skills?

I always think that I'm able to wear CON gear or WIS gear but I won't be able to get more skill points.

Somebody on the builder site suggested going for FB 5 to get enhanced power attack. Would that be worth it? I was thinking that might make this build a bit too melee and less "stormylord" though I'm not too sure.

I read a couple of interesting posts on druids somewhere. An interesting class that I don't think I've ever played on any rpg.

Thanks again.
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Scottg
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Post by Scottg »

kayapo wrote:
Do I lose that much if I drop WIS to 10 and CON to 12 so that I can maintain 12 INT and not be too straped for skills?

I always think that I'm able to wear CON gear or WIS gear but I won't be able to get more skill points.

Somebody on the builder site suggested going for FB 5 to get enhanced power attack. Would that be worth it? I was thinking that might make this build a bit too melee and less "stormylord" though I'm not too sure.

I read a couple of interesting posts on druids somewhere. An interesting class that I don't think I've ever played on any rpg.

Thanks again.
It's not a big deal:

Constitution: you loose a few hit-points each level, and -1 to fortitude saves.
Wisdom: -1 to will saves and -1 to DC on your offensive spells.

An FB's enhanced power attack (level 5) gives you:

2-handed weapon used as a 2-handed weapon:
Power Attack = +10 damage -3 attack
Improved Power Attack = +20 damage -6 attack

2-handed weapon used as a 1-handed weapon (..monkey grip does this automatically):
Power Attack = +5 damage -3 attack
Improved Power Attack = +10 damage -6 attack

Of course that cost's you 3 spell-casting levels and perhaps likely an Epic spell, but that shouldn't be a big deal for the campaigns (depending on where you put those 3 levels in relation to what you want out of the builds spellcasting capability and when).

You also gain additional hitpoints and a few other minor perks.

It's up to you, and it's strictly a personal preference. If you are going to do it though I'd certainly drop Monkey Grip and add-in Improved Power Attack, but that doesn't give you a shield to use.
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