What makes a RPG a RPG?

[rustinpeace91]

I remember talking to my friend about RPGs and he made a joke about all games (no matter the genre) being role-playing games because of the fact that you play a role of someone (or something). Kind of laughed at this idea. :laugh:

But to be honest, after coming to this site, I'm not even sure what the heck an RPG is anymore. Some say it's all about character customisation. Some say it's all about open-endedness. It seems like they're undergoing an identity crisis or something.

hahahaha! welcome to the internet buddy

My definition is this: its not about what role playing features are in the game, its how much of the gameplay they effect. For instance, Oblivion and Fallout 3 are barely RPGs to me because the character customization effects the combat,but not the storyline, character interaction (well not much), or quest outcomes, which play a bigger role in the game. However, i would consider diablo II to be one, because your character choice, item customization ( a huge part of the game), level, and stat customization effect the combat, which pretty much makes up the whole game. Sound confusing? thats because it is

you see, Game genres are like music genres, EVERYONE has their own definition. Just as everyone has their own definition of what punk is, or what metal is. Genres are useful for putting games in general categories, or fun game banter like this, but you should take all these definitions (including mine) with somewhat a grain of salt. none of us invented the RPG, we arent "game policemen" so our definition of RPGs are little more than opinions.

[Kipi]

wtf? which of the best RPGs dont have character classes?
Diablo II
Baldurs Gate/icewind Dale
Eye of the Beholder
Elder Scrolls series
Dragon Age
Dungeon master
Rogue
Ultima series

all have Character classes, do you think none of these are good games?

From that list, only four games I regard to group of best: Diablo, Baldurs Gate, Dragon Age and Edler Scrolls. Three of them had classes, Elder Scroll series didn't.

Besides that list, I could add following from top of my head to the Best -list:
Fallout 1, 2 and (depends on on who you ask) 3, several muds and Deus Ex. None of them has class in fact, only role you form while playing basing on how do you like to play the game.

[QuenGalad]

The Witcher forces you to play a predefined character too, up to and including his name. Not to mention certain behaviour.

I think this is because I'm a linguist, but i'd say that RPG video game would be the one that mirrors the pen and paper role playing games, which is where the name comes from. Both in system and playstyle sense.

[doady]

Adventure games and roleplaying games have some similarities and I guess the differences between them need to be noted.

I guess both adventure and roleplaying games have world to explore, some degree of open-endedness and characters to interact with, etc. but what makes the adventure game different is the reliance on acquiring specific items, power-ups, and solving specific puzzles. Some examples of this genre include Metroid, Zelda, Monkey Island, and King's Quest.

I am no fan of Final Fantasy (to say the least), but it is definitely not an adventure game. I think Final Fantasy VI, for example, is a distinctly different game than Super Metroid (my favourite game of all time).

If Final Fantasy is not RPG because your characters can't affect the plot, then surely that means Might and Magic VI is not an RPG either since there is hardly any plot.

And of course there is nothing wrong with RPG using adventure game elements.

Roleplaying games I think are the sum of their parts. There no universal feature that makes an RPG an RPG. It depends on how the individual parts combine together to create a sense of an RPG. I think what sets RPGs apart is the sense of immersion based on the overall level of detail and the depth, whether it be the clothing and equipment, the game world, the characters and their development, the interactions with the game world and NPCs, the skills/professions, etc.

Overall is the key word here.

Lets look at the aforementioned Might & Magic VI for example. It lack plot and character interaction, so what features does it have to create the overall feeling of RPG?

• date and time: day and night cycles that affect gameplay, i.e. when shops are open, when certain spells can be used, when characters need to rest, etc. and the date affects when certain quests can be completed
• the game world: the setting, date and time (actual travel times, business hours, etc), the economy (costs and values), towns, services, etc.
• detailed characters and character development: experience, levels, skills, clothing, equipment, etc.

I think these elements give M&MVI an overall feeling that I playing an RPG. Perhaps the most important feature of RPG is the level of detail and depth? I think it has to be detailed in some way. But they don't have to be detailed in the exact same way.

[galraen]

Just thought I'd bounce the idea of defining what is an RPG by highlighting games that where touted as being RPGs, but in my opinion weren't.

First up, TES games, in particular Morrowind and Oblivion.

Simple question: Where's the role playing?

Now I really like those two games, well the modded versions anyway, but I can't think of one instance in either game's main plot line where there is any scope for role playing. Being able to join the Dark Brotherhood or not doesn't cut it, as even here role playing is not really permitted.

There are classes, but in name only; ever tried singing, playing a Doss Lute or telling tales when you're character's a Bard? Thought not.

Ever tried saying the hell with Azura and joining the 6th house (mods don't count); actually fulfilling the prophecy and driving the Impies out of Vvardenfell? Anyone tried siding with Mehrunes Dagon and wipe out the Blades and deliver Martin's head on a platter to the Servants of the Dawn?

No moral or ethical choices = No role playing.

The existence or non existence of classes doesn't define an RPG, except in as much that if you're playing a Paladin (or its opposite) you have to stay in role, the same should apply in other cases of course.

It is difficult to truly role play if you don't have an audience I guess, and there's the problem with CRPGs perhaps; unless you have a multiplayer option. May be that's why my favourite run through BG2 by far was when I was playing with friends on a LAN.

The bottom line for me though is that the label is irrelevant, what matters is do you enjoy playing the game. I'll never consider Morrowind an RPG, but I will always consider it one of the best games I've played.

Daggerfall? That qualifies as an RPG, you definitely have choices that, theoretically, change history, especially at the end of the game. One of the reasons why that was far and away the best game of the series so far.

[doady]

No moral or ethical choices = No role playing.

If that makes Morrowind a non-RPG, then that means most of the Might & Magic games are not RPGs either. Probably most of Wizardry games too, from what I read. Icewind Dale 1 and 2 are certainly not RPGs, by that definition, from what I remember anyways.

I'll never consider Morrowind an RPG, but I will always consider it one of the best games I've played.

I think Morrowind is an awful game. But I still it is an RPG.

As I said, I don't think there is a checklist of features that all RPGs must have. I think there is room for many different types of RPGs...

To say Morrowind is not an RPG because it doesn't have ethical issues is like saying Super Smash Bros is not a fighting game because it doesn't have any health bars. Doesn't really make sense to me.

Non-RPGs can present the player with ethical dilemmas as well...

I haven't played any RPG where ethical/moral dilemmas are a dominant aspect of the gameplay. If present at all, it is usually a minor thing.

I think the important thing for RPGs is depth and atmosphere. Adding morality and ethics into games adds depth and maybe a little atmosphere, and therefore help define the game as RPG. But it isn't the only way.

[galraen]

There isn't any role playing in Morrowind whatsoever, or in Oblivion, and I agree the M&M and Wizardry games aren't what I'd call RPGs either; especially Wizardry 6 and 7.

The term RPG has been completely bastardised unfortunately, if you want a true role playing game then dig out a PnP game.

Quite simply, if it isn't possible for you to act in a way that is contrary to the role you've either chosen, or had given to you, then it isn't a role playing game.

In the games mentioned there are no roles, just a sequence of quests and missions. All you know about your role in Morrowind is that you are a criminal when the game starts other than that you can do what you like, no consequences other than death. In Oblivion it;s the same, except that imprisonment is also an option.

I haven't played any RPG where ethical/moral dilemmas are a dominant aspect of the gameplay.

Then I suspect you haven't played any RPGs, but then neither have most people; although many here would have played Baldur's Gate ->SoA-> Throne of Bhaal.

[ancientdm]

oxymoron

Unfortunately posting for an RPG in a PC console forum really is an oxymoron. no offense meant but even with games like the witcher, the baldurs gate series, and Dragon age origins, there are no true RPG's only limited RPGs because the pc or console can only allow so much freedom of movement and character values. Some are better then others but the only true RPG in existence is and always was Table top Gaming like D&D or any of the other Fantasy table tops. Get a creative group of people and a good dm and your options are endless. Create your personality, interact with other players as well as NPCs and be prepared to face whatever consequences might come from your actions. That is what RPG is all about the freedom to be creative without restraints. (Given of course those forced on you be the rules) Its just something I think will never be done on either a pc or console, though like i stated some are enjoyable enough to come close.

[galraen]

Right on the money ancientdm.